Is God Cruel?

[OzmO]

His instructions to Saul, regarding the Amalekites, were to destroy every one and everything. The innocence or guilt factor is for God to decide, not you.

Wow, what a cheesy condescending statement to say.  Is that how it goes McWay?  You can have an intelligent conversation until your assertions are shown to be contradictory or false  so then you whip out the "it's for GOD to decide not you"? 

Yes, GOD did decide, then he became a hypocrite and murdered children. 

You see that's the thing about children.  Contrary to what a frustrated mother might say, there no such thing as an evil 18 month old.  So for you to whip that  one out is ridiculous.

The US government took down that company and nearly everyone associated with it suffered for it, WHETHER THEY PARTICIPATED IN THE CORRUPTION OR NOT. They didn't spare the janitors or secretaries. They didn't go out and find the mid-level managers new jobs or provide means for them to feed their families.

The point which you keep missing is that the sinful actions of the heads of Enron affected those under their charge. In this particular case, the "judgment" was financial loss.

At what point will you finally pull the "wool of denial" from your eyes and recognize that's there a difference between a janitor losing his job and his children not being able to get an ipod for Christmas or and enron exec spending time in jail and his children  going on welfare VERSUS killing innocent children?

So.....what that means is your cherry-picking what you think is and isn't the word of God, simply because you have a problem with His judgment on certain people, doesn't fly.

Yeah, pretty much, becuase i haven't traded my common sense that tells me that killing innocent children is EVIL for blind faith that becomes easy pickings for churches to impose their doctrine.

Obviously it seems like you have, becuase you are desperately trying to justify why it is a godly act to kill innocent children to the point of having to say:  "it's for God to decide not you" 

Sorry here it comes:

 

Samuel was simply the messenger. He had no say on the matter. In fact, when God tasked him to find Saul's replacement, among the sons of Jesse, the LAST person Samuel thought should be king was David. Had it been up to Samuel, David's big brother, Eliab, would have been the new king. It was God's call to go with the Jesse's youngest boy, a shepherd.

Obviously not.  Samuel said it and it became so. 

"IF it can be avoided"? And, therein lies the problem with your statements. This could have been avoided...BY THE AMALEKITES, had they repented and made amends with Israel (which they had over 300 years to do). God gave them more than enough time to turn from their wicked way; they didn't; therefore, it's judgment time.

No it could have been avoid by God, God chose to give the order.  God had the  option.  The Amalikite adults chose to continue to be murderous and they paid for it.  god chose to kill innocent children. 

BTW, you mentioned "leaders, employers, etc." Exactly how did the US government compensate those employees who suffered when Enron went down?

How did they compensate them?  probably many of them went on unemployment.  But one thing is for sure.  the government didn't kill their children.   

Were they involved with Al-Qaeda? If so, did they try to make amends with the US?

Are you asking if OBL had 1-8 year old children if they were involved with Al Queda?  If so would you advocate their execution?  If not would you still advocate their execution and believe it's right?

I did read what you wrote. Again, what's stopping the spared Amalekites from growing in numbers and resuming the Israeli persecution that their forefathers started? Remember, that they were separated, displaced from Amalek. But, when their numbers increased, it was business as usual for the children of Amalek.

OH  ok, so i get you now.  You believe that they were born EVIL and any of their offspring no matter how diluted would surely become evil.

Even if you place 1 amalikite child every 1000 square miles all the way from north America to china they will find a way to repopulate and re-converge next to the jews and attack them again?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Wrong again.

Once again, you keep forgetting the REPENTANCE factor. Again, look at the Ninevites. They were to be destroyed for their wickedness. But, they repented and were spared. And, therein lies the difference between them and the Amalekites. Had the Amalekites of Saul's day made amends for what their forefathers did to Israel, when Moses was alive, what happened with Saul never would have occured.

Why do you keep going back to the Amelekite adults when this is about the murder of Amalekite children?  Did the children have the opportunity to repent?  NO, they were murdered before that could happen.  Murdered by men who used GOD as a scape goat.  The men who likely thought a drought was a punishment by god, the same men who today think Katrina was god's punishment for all the sins in New Orleans.  The same dim witted primitive people who think there is any justification in killing children.

Their parents are responsible for their fate. And, this sentence was placed on them, because it was the Amalekites who targeted Israel's weak and feeble citizens. As Samuel told king Agag, "As your sword has made women childless, so your mother will be made childless".

That doesn't make killing children justified.  Maybe in  your world it does McWay.  NOT in mine. 

In my anger i may want to kill children in retaliation, but i won;t becuase it's not the right thing to do.  However, in the JEW's anger they did.  But then again, just like radical Islam, they were very primitive.

But, you know that everyone doesn't get what they deserve in this sinful world. And that means that innocent people will suffer for the sins of others.


That's why man must monitor his behavior. Because, the wrong decisions can bring poverty, disease, despair, or even DEATH upon his whole family, his company, or his kingdom.

Yes.

And that would apply here, until GOD decided (allegedly) to order the death of children.   

The murder or deliberate killing of innocent children are the choices and the actions of men not  of GOD.  Because for God to chose to kill innocent children invalidates all that he has tried to teach us.

[Hustle Man]

...for God to chose to kill innocent children invalidates all that he has tried to teach us.

Plain and simple we serve a different God than you serve! The remedy; The Holy spirit of the God of the OLD and New Testaments (which we hold to) has to clear this up for you.

HMIC

Some verses to help you:

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Romans 8 :10-12

10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

God (OT & NT) has his reasons for why and whom he pours out his wrath, you just have to accept and trust his devine judgement.

[loco]

You and I share similar views.    But there are a few very valuable lessons to take from it too.  The dietary laws for instance. Very advanced for that age... and if more people kept kosher, they'd lose weight and be a lot healthier. Not mixing dairy with meat = instant weight loss, as all those rich sauces, cheese, etc are out of bounds. And if more people waited 5 hours after the big steak dinner to have their slab of cheesecake or mixing bowl sized ice cream dessert, this would would be a good thing. In many ways actually, the kosher way of eating is similar to a bodybuilding diet.  Without all the matzah of course.  I personally never found much more to take from it. Endless violence and bloodshed ad infinitum.

Good point about the diet, Deedee, but that's too bad, that you personally never found much more to take from the OT.  I personally found much to take from the OT.  I won't flood the thread with text, but here is just a few things:

Exodus

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12

"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13

"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14

"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16

Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22

Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1

Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2

Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5

Treat the poor fairly. 23:6

Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7

Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9

Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11

Leviticus

What is stolen or wrongfully acquired should be returned to the owner. 6:2-5

Leave some grapes on the vine for travelers and the poor. 19:10

Don't steal or lie 19:11, 13

"Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling block before the blind." 19:14

Don't gossip. 19:16

Don't hate people. 19:17

"Love thy neighbor as thyself." 19:18

Respect your elders. 19:32

Be kind to strangers. 19:33-34

Treat others fairly. Don't cheat. 19:35-36

To help feed the poor and strangers, farmers should not harvest the corners of their fields. 23:22

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." 25:10

Do not oppress one another. 25:17

Deuteronomy

"Honor thy father and thy mother." 5:16

"Thou shalt not kill." 5:17

Don't commit adultery. 5:18

Don't steal. 5:19

Don't lie. 5:20

"Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." 10:19

Help the poor. 15:7-8

"Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy." 15:11

Judges and officers should strive to be impartial and should never take a bribe. 16:18-19

Look out for your neighbor's animals and protect them from harm. 22:1-4

Be careful when making a roof to ensure that no one falls off the edge. 22:8

Don't return runaway slaves to their masters. Let them live with you in peace and freedom. 23:15-16

Do not oppress the poor, whether they be slaves, neighbors, or strangers. 24:14-15

"It shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow."
Be kind to widows, orphans, fatherless children and strangers. Share whatever you have with them. 24:17-21

"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn." Let the animal eat while it works. 25:4

"Thou shalt have a perfect and just weight."
Be honest when you deal with others. Don't cheat. 25:13-15

Take care of those who need help. 26:12-13

Proverbs

"My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother." 1:8

A beautiful proverb about mercy and truth. 3:3

Wisdom and understanding lead to happiness. 3:13

"Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it." 3:27

Help your neighbor, if you can. 3:28

Don't devise plots against your neighbor, fight without cause, or imitate an oppressor. 3:29-31

"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding." 4:7

Speak plainly and honestly to others. 4:24

"Rejoice with the wife of thy youth.... Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love." 5:18-19

Wisdom is better than wealth. Nothing else compares with it. 8:11

"A wise son maketh a glad father." 10:1, 23:24, 29:3

"Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins." 10:12

"When pride cometh, then cometh shame." 11:2

"The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but he that is cruel troubleth his own flesh."  11:17

"He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind." 11:29

"Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge." 12:1

Be kind to animals. 12:10

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." 12:15

"The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment." 12:19

"A wise son heareth his father's instruction." 13:1

"A righteous man hateth lying." 13:5

"Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly." 13:16

Some nice proverbs about wisdom, anger, mercy and folly. 14:7-8, 14:16-18, 14:21-22, 29, 16:21-22
"A soft answer turneth away wrath." 15:1


Some good remarks about wisdom. 15:2, 7

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." 16:18

Don't gossip about others. Avoid saying hurtful things. 16:28

"He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city." 16:32

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine." 17:22

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding." 17:28

"A fool hath no delight in understanding" and his "mouth is his destruction." 18:2, 7

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." 18:13

Be careful how you speak; words can do great damage. 21:23

"A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches." 22:1

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." 22:6

"He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor." 22:9

Don't rob the poor or oppress the afflicted. 22:22

"Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words." 23:9

"Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge." 23:12

"Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old." 23:22

Find the truth and hang on to it; Value wisdom, instruction, and understanding 23:23

"Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth." 24:17

"Be not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips." 24:28

"Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work." 24:29

"If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink." 25:21

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him." 26:12
"Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth." 27:1

"Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." 27:2

"Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds." Take care of your animals. 27:23

"A man that flattereth his neighbour spreadeth a net for his feet." 29:5

"The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it." 29:7

"A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit." 29:23

[OzmO]

Plain and simple we serve a different God than you serve! The remedy; The Holy spirit of the God of the OLD and New Testaments (which we hold to) has to clear this up for you.

HMIC

Some verses to help you:

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Romans 8 :10-12

10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

God (OT & NT) has his reasons for why and whom he pours out his wrath, you just have to accept and trust his devine judgement.

Thanks HT for the imput.....  working from the end of your post:

I trust in God's divine judgment.  I don't see killing innocent children  as divine.  I do believe in punishing a person for their actions but not before the fact.  I do not identify GOD 100% in the OT.  There is too much in it that conflicts with basic morality that is also attributed to him.   The whole collection of books is woven with the word of fearful/hateful men some of who would commit genocide as with the Amalekites..

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

Written by primitive people who lack understanding of human psychology and who's culture in some respects, becuase of the time in history, needs to set up reasons to hate in order to survive.

People aren't born wicked, although it may seem so sometimes. 

[Deedee]

Good point about the diet, Deedee, but that's too bad, that you personally never found much more to take from the OT.  I personally found much to take from the OT.  I won't flood the thread with text, but here is just a few things:

I'm happy for you that you found those great ethics to live by, and that's important.  Other people get it elsewhere.  I shouldn't say that what I posted about dietary advice  was the only thing I got out of it... off the top of my head there are some beautiful passages.  Like those just before the Flood... when God was angry with the giganto people... those to me are among some of the most poetic beautiful writings I've read.    But I never got over all the bloodlust, violence, etc... the concubine murder story in Judges gave me nightmares when I was a kid. Plus the whole nature vs nurture thing Hustle Man posted above... it just always read like some village elders wrote it.  My views are very much like Ozmo's.  That's what makes our diverse world so great I guess.

[Deedee]

I need to further re-consider my diet.  and i'm not saying this becuase of what DeeDee said, although she's dead on.  I'm getting to the point of not wanting to ever buy produce at grocery stores anymore.  Farmer's markets all the way!

Lol!!! I've been on the biblical path of eating myself.  It's much healthier.      

[Hustle Man]

Lol!!! I've been on the biblical path of eating myself.  It's much healthier.      

And what is that Dee?

[MCWAY]

Wow, what a cheesy condescending statement to say.  Is that how it goes McWay?  You can have an intelligent conversation until your assertions are shown to be contradictory or false  so then you whip out the "it's for GOD to decide not you"?  

You haven't shown any of my statements to be false or contradictory, Ozmo. And, my statement was not meant to be condescending. In fact, you’ll notice that, in the past, I’ve included myself, when I’ve made that statement. And, I should have done so here.

I apologize for appearing to be condescending. But, my point stands. That’s the Lord’s call to make as Creator, regarding judgment on the Amalekites.

Yes, GOD did decide, then he became a hypocrite and murdered children.  

You see that's the thing about children.  Contrary to what a frustrated mother might say, there no such thing as an evil 18 month old.  So for you to whip that one out is ridiculous.

A hypocrite doesn't follow his own standards, yet he expects others to do so. God follows His own standard. Again, see Commandment #2. He judges the inquities to the third and fourth generation. And, that's what He does with the Amalekites.

God does indeed decide the innocent or guilt factor. Regardless of that, the mother is responsible for that child and her sinful behavior could adversely affect both her and that child.

At what point will you finally pull the "wool of denial" from your eyes and recognize that's there a difference between a janitor losing his job and his children not being able to get an ipod for Christmas or and enron exec spending time in jail and his children  going on welfare VERSUS killing innocent children?

When will you finally realize that the principle between what happened with the Enron example and the Amalekites is the same? The sins of those in authority affect those under that authority. The only difference between the two is the "judgment" in each case.

With Enron, it was severe financial loss. With the Amalekites, it was DEATH. But, the same rule applied. The sin of Enron CEO damaged his entire company; and the sin of Amalekite king, Agag, virtually demolished his entire country.

Yeah, pretty much, becuase i haven't traded my common sense that tells me that killing innocent children is EVIL for blind faith that becomes easy pickings for churches to impose their doctrine.

And what doctrine would that be?

Obviously it seems like you have, becuase you are desperately trying to justify why it is a godly act to kill innocent children to the point of having to say:  "it's for God to decide not you"


Sorry here it comes:

 

There's no desperation involved. That's simply the case.

Obviously not.  Samuel said it and it became so.  

NOOOOOO.......The Lord told Samuel to find a replacement for Saul, which would be among the sons of Jesse. There’s no indicator that Samuel wanted to pick from this family (or even that he wanted Saul replaced). In fact, Samuel was afraid that Saul would kill him, if he went looking for a replacement to be the new king. And, as stated earlier, when he got to Jesse’s house, Samuel’s choice was David's big brother, Eliab. But, God's pick was David, and He explained the reason to Samuel.

No it could have been avoid by God, God chose to give the order.  God had the  option.  The Amalikite adults chose to continue to be murderous and they paid for it.  god chose to kill innocent children.  

They paid for it, and so did their children, just as Pharoah's sins cost him (and many of those in his kingdom) the firstborn son. That's the fact you repeatedly deny: People's sins don't just affect them. The higher authority you have, the more devastating your sin will be to those under your influence.

And, YES, that includes DEATH.

How did they compensate them?  probably many of them went on unemployment.  But one thing is for sure.  the government didn't kill their children.  

Unemployment HARDLY covered the income many of those people were making. And, once again, you miss the point by a country mile. It's not about merely the punishment; it's about the punishment (be it disease, financial loss, or death) affected all under the transgressors' authority.

Are you asking if OBL had 1-8 year old children if they were involved with Al Queda?  If so would you advocate their execution?  If not would you still advocate their execution and believe it's right?

If they’ve got machine guns and explosives, all bets are off.

OH  ok, so i get you now.  You believe that they were born EVIL and any of their offspring no matter how diluted would surely become evil.

Technically, YES, they’re born evil. But, so is everyone else. As Scripture says, we are born in sin and shaped in iniquity.

With that said, we have the opportunity to repent, and so did the Amalekites. They didn’t; thus the judgment of God hit them. And their children suffered for it as well (it’s that 2nd commandment thing).

Even if you place 1 amalikite child every 1000 square miles all the way from north America to china they will find a way to repopulate and re-converge next to the jews and attack them again?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

And exactly who’s going to be willing to adopt these kids, given the Amalekites’ horrid reputation? Using an example you gave earlier, do you plan on rocking one of Bin Laden’s babies to sleep, upon his capture/execution and the dismantling of Al-Qaeda? Or, have you a college fund set up for one of Zawahiri’s teens, to get his degree?

And, lest you forget, the Amalekites were scattered. But, their numbers grew and they resumed their persecution of Israel.

Why do you keep going back to the Amelekite adults when this is about the murder of Amalekite children?  Did the children have the opportunity to repent?  NO, they were murdered before that could happen.  Murdered by men who used GOD as a scape goat.  The men who likely thought a drought was a punishment by god, the same men who today think Katrina was god's punishment for all the sins in New Orleans.  The same dim witted primitive people who think there is any justification in killing children.

I keep going back to the Amalekite adults, because (as much as it may grate your pysche), the adults’ sin brought judgment on themselves and their offspring. As for your claim of using God a scapegoat, the Israelites did no such thing. Again, this whole issue with Saul being deposed as king has NOTHING to do with merely executing God’s judgment. It’s about that fact that Saul didn’t execute it FULLY.

He was to utterly and completely destroy Amalek, not spare the king, or his family, or any other families, or the choice livestock, or the silver and gold, or the jewels, or the precious resources.

With the OT loaded with examples of Israel being punished for NOT following God’s instructions, why is it that no judgment occurs on the Israelites for pummeling the Amalekites? Had Saul finished the job, his family would have still been the ruling class in Israel.

That doesn't make killing children justified.  Maybe in  your world it does McWay.  NOT in mine.  

Last time I checked, we lived on the same planet.

In my anger i may want to kill children in retaliation, but i won;t becuase it's not the right thing to do.  However, in the JEW's anger they did.  But then again, just like radical Islam, they were very primitive.

Right based on whose laws?

Saul didn't do the right thing. He agreed to follow God's instructions but didn't. Then, he lied to Samuel, claiming that he did. He tried to push the blame for his disobedience on his troops. And, he claimed that the choice livestock (which he was order to destroy) was an offering to God.

Yes.

And that would apply here, until GOD decided (allegedly) to order the death of children.  

The murder or deliberate killing of innocent children are the choices and the actions of men not  of GOD.  Because for God to chose to kill innocent children invalidates all that he has tried to teach us.

What God teaches is that sins have GRAVE consequences (literally and figuratively). He teaches that those in authority, who commit certain sins, merit consequences that can affect those under his authority. It goes back to the second commandment.

The Lord also teaches why we shouldn't have a spirit of revenge, as it robs you of your peace and eats at your soul. As He has said, vengeance is HIS. He will choose the hour and the method to bring judgment onto those who have wronged his people.

[Deicide]

I can't believe this silly thread is still going on in light of the fact that Yahweh the Angry is MOST CERTAINLY cruel...

But you know what they say....

Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded...

[loco]

Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded...

True.   

[MCWAY]

I can't believe this silly thread is still going on in light of the fact that Yahweh the Angry is MOST CERTAINLY cruel...

Yep!! Giving people centuries to repent, sparing them of the full consequences of their sin (if they do), and ultimately offering them a chance at eternal life. WHAT A MEANIE!!!!!

 

[Deicide]

Yep!! Giving people centuries to repent, sparing them of the full consequences of their sin (if they do), and ultimately offering them a chance at eternal life. WHAT A MEANIE!!!!!

 

None of the above claimed by you based on a shred of mutually corroborative, tangible evidence; just your blind faith. For a change.

[OzmO]

Yep!! Giving people centuries to repent, sparing them of the full consequences of their sin (if they do), and ultimately offering them a chance at eternal life. WHAT A MEANIE!!!!!

 

So what does he allegedly do?   Kills children.  He's not a meanie, he's a murderer.

You haven't shown any of my statements to be false or contradictory, Ozmo. And, my statement was not meant to be condescending. In fact, you’ll notice that, in the past, I’ve included myself, when I’ve made that statement. And, I should have done so here.

I apologize for appearing to be condescending. But, my point stands. That’s the Lord’s call to make as Creator, regarding judgment on the Amalekites.

In principle as the all powerful yes, it's his call, but that doesn't take away the fact that it's wrong, immoral, unjustified and cruel.

A hypocrite doesn't follow his own standards, yet he expects others to do so. God follows His own standard. Again, see Commandment #2. He judges the inquities to the third and fourth generation. And, that's what He does with the Amalekites.

God does indeed decide the innocent or guilt factor. Regardless of that, the mother is responsible for that child and her sinful behavior could adversely affect both her and that child.

In this case he is, he killed innocent people.  Judging poeple for what their grandparents did?  that's just plain stupid.
We've going around and around with this, children having to deal with the consequences of their parents actions is a fact of life, but choosing to innocent children doesn't fall in that category.   Otherwise we would be justified in killing innocent children of other nations and people.

When will you finally realize that the principle between what happened with the Enron example and the Amalekites is the same? The sins of those in authority affect those under that authority. The only difference between the two is the "judgment" in each case.

With Enron, it was severe financial loss. With the Amalekites, it was DEATH. But, the same rule applied. The sin of Enron CEO damaged his entire company; and the sin of Amalekite king, Agag, virtually demolished his entire country.

refer above to the other response.   They are no the same.  What happened to the children of the enron execs and employees is how life works, Ordering soldiers to kill children is an abomination, immoral, vicious, murderer, etc...  THey never had to be killed. 

And what doctrine would that be?

All churches have doctrine.  They all think they are right and know the truth.

NOOOOOO.......The Lord told Samuel to find a replacement for Saul, which would be among the sons of Jesse. There’s no indicator that Samuel wanted to pick from this family (or even that he wanted Saul replaced). In fact, Samuel was afraid that Saul would kill him, if he went looking for a replacement to be the new king. And, as stated earlier, when he got to Jesse’s house, Samuel’s choice was David's big brother, Eliab. But, God's pick was David, and He explained the reason to Samuel.

The words came from Samuel's mouth.

Verses 26-28

And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.

Now you can go on and on and tell me GOD was telling Samuel to say that, but this is the same God that told who ever to kill the children also?   If that's the case, Samuel was no profit.

They paid for it, and so did their children, just as Pharoah's sins cost him (and many of those in his kingdom) the firstborn son. That's the fact you repeatedly deny: People's sins don't just affect them. The higher authority you have, the more devastating your sin will be to those under your influence.

And, YES, that includes DEATH.

Not if the death of children can be avoided.  Again i ask you, would killing all the children of Germany or just the nazi's in 1946 be justified?

If they’ve got machine guns and explosives, all bets are off.

So if a 5 year boy of OBL is in the vicinity of a AK-47 he should die?

Technically, YES, they’re born evil. But, so is everyone else. As Scripture says, we are born in sin and shaped in iniquity.

With that said, we have the opportunity to repent, and so did the Amalekites. They didn’t; thus the judgment of God hit them. And their children suffered for it as well (it’s that 2nd commandment thing).

Ho w does the 2nd commandment  relate to killing innocent children?

I keep going back to the Amalekite adults, because (as much as it may grate your pysche), the adults’ sin brought judgment on themselves and their offspring. As for your claim of using God a scapegoat, the Israelites did no such thing. Again, this whole issue with Saul being deposed as king has NOTHING to do with merely executing God’s judgment. It’s about that fact that Saul didn’t execute it FULLY.

He was to utterly and completely destroy Amalek, not spare the king, or his family, or any other families, or the choice livestock, or the silver and gold, or the jewels, or the precious resources.

With the OT loaded with examples of Israel being punished for NOT following God’s instructions, why is it that no judgment occurs on the Israelites for pummeling the Amalekites? Had Saul finished the job, his family would have still been the ruling class in Israel.

Doesn;t change the immoral, vicious, murderous and cruel act of killing innocent children

Last time I checked, we lived on the same planet.

So then i ask you is killing children of evil parents justified?   If a man kills another, is it justified i kill his children?

And exactly who’s going to be willing to adopt these kids, given the Amalekites’ horrid reputation? Using an example you gave earlier, do you plan on rocking one of Bin Laden’s babies to sleep, upon his capture/execution and the dismantling of Al-Qaeda? Or, have you a college fund set up for one of Zawahiri’s teens, to get his degree?

And, lest you forget, the Amalekites were scattered. But, their numbers grew and they resumed their persecution of Israel.

And how is a family in China in 2000+ BC going to know about the history of a baby given to them by an angel?  Will they look it up on the internet?  Will they index his DNA and find out?  How did they know about the Amalikites on CNN?   You are really desperate if that's what you have to say to discredit this solution.

What the jews did was commit genocide.

What God teaches is that sins have GRAVE consequences (literally and figuratively). He teaches that those in authority, who commit certain sins, merit consequences that can affect those under his authority. It goes back to the second commandment.

The Lord also teaches why we shouldn't have a spirit of revenge, as it robs you of your peace and eats at your soul. As He has said, vengeance is HIS. He will choose the hour and the method to bring judgment onto those who have wronged his people.

And then he becomes a hypocrite by murdering those who are innocent.