Palin’s 17-Year-Old Daughter is Pregnant

[CQ]

Honestly, yes it is not responsible or ideal to have a kid as a teenager - I *know* this. You can still do well, raise a great kid blah blah, but really it is not ideal. While others were in college, I was singing nursery rhymes. No regrets, she's my heart and I would do it again with joy, but would not reccomend it as the best option.

[Straw Man]

LOL . . .  I see.  LOL. . . . You've never met a couple who produced a baby while on birth control?  You need to talk to people about this. 

the first part of your question was whether giving her a condom would have prevented them from having sex (btw - weird question)

I didn't say that contraception was fool-proof but it works much more frequently than NOTHING which basically all that abstinence training offers.   

As I'm sure you know, condoms and other forms of birth control work much better than nothing when people actually have sex

[Dos Equis]

I didn't say that contraception was fool-proof but it works much more frequently than NOTHING which basically all that abstinence training offers. 

Once again you contradict yourself in the same thread.   

contraception would not have prevented them from having sex but it would have prevented her from getting pregnant.
that's the point of contraception

[240 is Back]

Because it's a private matter.  They shouldn't have to "release" private family matters.  The only reason they did was to dispel the nasty rumors about baby no. 5. 

No, the only thing they did was place into circulation a claim, designed to lessen the runaway rumor.

It may have "dispelled" it for you, but I'm thinking the investigators in Alaska right now aren't as easily convinced.

Also, she was wearing a ring on left ring finger on friday's appearance.

[Straw Man]

where's the contradiction?

[Dos Equis]

No, the only thing they did was place into circulation a claim, designed to lessen the runaway rumor.

It may have "dispelled" it for you, but I'm thinking the investigators in Alaska right now aren't as easily convinced.

Also, she was wearing a ring on left ring finger on friday's appearance.

Investigators?  Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant?  Other than liberals trying to trash her? 

[Dos Equis]

where's the contradiction?

I went through the trouble of quoting your words.  You figure it out. 

[240 is Back]

Investigators?  Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant?  Other than liberals trying to trash her? 

There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday.  Nat'l Enquirer is putting their resources into it.  Was nat'l Enquirer "liberals" when they trashed Edwards?

These are investigators doing the job Mccain SHOULD have done in the first place.  

[Straw Man]

I went through the trouble of quoting your words.  You figure it out. 

you do understand that contraception doesn't prevent sex....right?

Really?  So if she would have given her daughter condoms or put her on the pill should wouldn't have had sex and wouldn't have gotten pregnant?

We don't know what failed.  Could have been the parents.  Could have been the training.  Could have been a hardheaded teenager.  None of us knows.   

[Dos Equis]

There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday.  Nat'l Enquirer is putting their resources into it.  Was nat'l Enquirer "liberals" when they trashed Edwards?

These are investigators doing the job Mccain SHOULD have done in the first place.  

So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?  

Not that I don't believe you, but what is your source indicating "dozens of democrat vetters" flew to Alaska yesterday?  

[240 is Back]

So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?  

Not that I don't believe you, but what is your source indicating "dozens of democrat vetters" flew to Alaska yesterday?  

I "admit"?  WTF are you talking about?  THEY admitted they were sending party officials up there to research her, as Mccain should have.  Also there is a report that mccain just sent 8 people up, staying in 8 rooms at a wasilla hotel, to re-vet her a bit. http://www.unbossed.com/index.php?itemid=2237


When I see it again, i'll share it.  I read about 25 or 30 different sites on this story today.  Sorry, I don't know which one spoke of the flight.

Dude, you should really get with the program.  There are hundreds of websites all putting together pieces of this puzzle.  To declare it over because Rove made 1 statement is asinine.

Let the parties do their research, let's wait a week, and see what the conclusion is.

[Dos Equis]

I "admit"?  WTF are you talking about?  THEY admitted they were sending party officials up there to research her, as Mccain should have.  Also there is a report that mccain just sent 8 people up, staying in 8 rooms at a wasilla hotel, to re-vet her a bit. http://www.unbossed.com/index.php?itemid=2237


When I see it again, i'll share it.  I read about 25 or 30 different sites on this story today.  Sorry, I don't know which one spoke of the flight.

Dude, you should really get with the program.  There are hundreds of websites all putting together pieces of this puzzle.  To declare it over because Rove made 1 statement is asinine.

Let the parties do their research, let's wait a week, and see what the conclusion is.

You can't keep up with your own twisted posts.  lol.  Here is what you said:

There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday. 

Now you say Republicans are going to vet her for the first.  This after you made this post earlier today:

Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager and the person at the point of the vice presidential process, said there was no abrupt change of course in the final hours. Nor, he said, was Palin selected without having gone through the full vetting process that was done for other finalists. That process included reviews of financial and other personal data, an FBI background check and considerable discussion among the handful of McCain advisers involved in the deliberations.

"Nobody was vetted less or more than anyone in the final stages, and John had access to all that information and made the decision," Davis said. "It's really not much more complicated than that."

As usual, you're all over the place. 

[Benny B]

So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?  

Of COURSE they are, dummy. That's the way intense political campaigns work...on BOTH sides.
And should the dems find something...Palin's toast. 

[24KT]

Really? 

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:

    "Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."

Sen. Chuck Schumer says:

    "After the great success of the Democratic convention, the choice of Sarah Palin is surely a Hail Mary pass. It is a real roll of the dice and shows how John McCain, Karl Rove et al realize what a strong position the Obama-Biden team and Democrats in general are in in this election. Certainly the choice of Palin puts to rest any argument about inexperience on the Democratic team and while Palin is a fine person, her lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling. I particularly look forward to the Biden-Palin debate in Missouri."

Rep. Rahm Emanuel:

    "Is this really who the Republican Party wants to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency? Given Sarah Palin's lack of experience on every front and on nearly every issue, this Vice Presidential pick doesn't show judgment: it shows political panic."

Rep. Jim Clyburn on South Carolina ETV Radio:

    "I do believe that McCain has to do something to reshuffle the cards, shake up the establishment, do something unexpected and Governor Palin has all the kinds of things that McCain might see as a way to shake things up. I think [her selection] would be something similar to Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner. Being thrust on a national stage like that could be very tough. Now Mondale tried to shake things up by going with Geraldine Ferraro.she proved to be a disaster as a running mate. And as a campaigner, she was absolutely awful. And so I just think that it is very risky for McCain to do this, but it may be all he has left."

Meanwhile, the non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch responded that the pick underscores McCain's loss of maverick reformer credentials:

    "In choosing Governor Palin, Senator McCain is clearly trying to shore up his past maverick reformer image - an image that is now in tatters due to the type of campaign he's run and the big money lobbyists he depends on every day of the week," Donnelly said.


    "This selection raises plenty of questions," Donnelly continued. "She bills herself as a reformer, but has been silent on whether she supports public financing of elections in her own state. As governor of an oil-producing state, she's been a friend to Big Oil. Given John McCain's extensive fundraising from Big Oil, her selection raises concerns of whether the McCain-Palin ticket will promise the same access for oil companies and their lobbyists that we've seen for nearly eight years from the Bush-Cheney administration."

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!

There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is drenched.

Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair, maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O. Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.

But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for three-terms. And far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that ad was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12 years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.

There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to figure out who I hoped got the presidential nomination. Someone so weak he'd be easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window. McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.

I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.

No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket - let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs. And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically what loses even more women voters. And men. Ultimately, the nomination will lose far, far more votes than it gains.

But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.

It's always said that the most important decision a presidential candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters, look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have been chosen.

It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross political misconduct.

Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months. Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.

Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It's so small it doesn't even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully at his job in the village - but I don't expect that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from the U.S. President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying political signage.)

Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:

    1. Preside at council meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the case of a tie;


    2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;

Swell.

If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small), look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?

But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin the VP nominee is so terrible.

It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of serious medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most things Democrats stand for."

But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.

Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.

Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.

What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his entire career, that everything he does is for reasons of honor. There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly pandering."

But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.

But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.

First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving his majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts were admiring in awe.

Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.

Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be Vice President of the United States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about her husband being a champion snowmobiler.

Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then, she basically stopped there.

She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the endangered species list (which the government did), so maybe her environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks.

And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one question on everyone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you should be a heart-beat from the presidency?"

In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket. Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.

It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in preparation for his debate with her and thought, "This isn't fair."

And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.

The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over two months to go for the campaign.

The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.

Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty judgment on the critical issues facing America.

What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the 'How old are you now?' part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he supposedly forgot it was his birthday?

Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that will remotely allow her to do so in the future.

The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in presidential politics.

Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue, experience, Republicans were even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be willing to vote for a senator with 26 years in the Senate. Her bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first decision.

And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.

Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.

Wow!!! This really hits the nail square on the head!

           

[24KT]

Mccain and Palin both decided it was a good thing to thrust an unwed pregnant teenager into the national media spotlight for the sake of an election?

This is probably the scariest aspect of this whole ordeal.

That's the part that I find so absolutely disgusting!   
This girl is going to need a lot of support, ...and the kind that's coming from "Republicans" isn't what she needs.

[Tre]

Investigators?  Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant?  Other than liberals trying to trash her? 

Sarah disclosed it to John during their talks prior to her selection.

[24KT]

Blah, blah, blah... quit spending so much time on here and go check on your daughter

[240 is Back]

Sarah disclosed it to John during their talks prior to her selection.

No one on his staff has the same answer as to when he was told, and to what detail.

I'm betting he was as surprised as anyone

[MCWAY]

Agree, great points, especially about the "lot of work" and I only have one

Which I why I feel with 5 kids, one special needs, one pregnant - there is no way she has the time to do both effectively. One will suffer, and neither choice is optimal

Equal rights for women is great and needed, but if we as women make the choice to have even 1 kid, let alone 5...we really should put them first. If one wants to be career mad great - do it before or after kids, or do a medium demanding career. Many parents will question this, and it's not as she is female. If Obama had 3 more kids, one pregnant and one special needs - I would think he needs to get his ass home and be a dad.

And Shoot - I agree, no way should parents be blamed. Like you, I had great parents and I've made errors.

Keep in mind that her oldest "kid" is a GROWN MAN who's in the Army, about to head to Iraq in a week or two.

And the other one is about to be married (that would be the pregnant one).

That leaves one early/mid teenager, a little kid, and a baby.

[shootfighter1]

One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now.  Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this?  I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting.  Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.

[CQ]

Keep in mind that her oldest "kid" is a GROWN MAN who's in the Army, about to head to Iraq in a week or two.

And the other one is about to be married (that would be the pregnant one).

That leaves one early/mid teenager, a little kid, and a baby.

Agree on the oldest kid, but seriously you're always a mom. I bug my mom to death and I am 33

Plus the othr 2 young kids - the teen girl, sure on paper she is getting married - in reality she is a high school student and a legal minor. Plus, pregnany, press makes her require some more love and care [not to be fruity]. And the baby as we know has special needs.

That is a handful, no denying that.

[Decker]

One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now.  Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this?  I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting.  Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.

The National Enquirer won and Murrow/Cronkite lost.

News is produced for salacious consumers.

Political policy means nothing to the national media.  When's the last time you saw on national newsprograms a policy discussion on taxes, abortion, entitlements or the like?  Never.

All political news is process and not policy.  Why did McCain say X the way he said it?  How is he positioning himself on Y etc.  There are simply no substantive policy discussions at all in our national media.

I love discussing policy.  I like making fun of process.

[24KT]

One thing I am curious about - which seems dodgy to me...is why not say it right away? Would have seemed less "unseeming". If she is 5 months, she'll be ready to blow by election time so no way could it be a secret.

When she was announced, why not say 5 kids, a grandchild on the way from her daughter Bristol who is engaged, slap an enagement ring on the kid and it all would have looked better for perception. 17 may be young, but that would have looked better...recalling image matters.

Why wait - and release the info now? Thoughts anyone?

Damage control. It appears like they're trying to close the barn door after the horses got out.
...

on 2nd thought, ...this could have been a very calculated decision on Mccain's part in order to change the national debate just before election day. he cannot compete on issues of the economy, climate change, foreign relations, the war in Iraq etc, ...so choosing a running mate with a pregnant teen, changes the topic of discussion to abortion. An area that fires up the evangelical right. He throws a child into the fray, knowing Americans would never vote against a child. They're looking to psychologically frame this as a vote against Mccain, equates to a vote against women, or against loving support for an unwed pregnant teen.

[Benny B]

Damage control. It appears like they're trying to close the barn door after the horses got out.
...

on 2nd thought, ...this could have been a very calculated decision on Mccain's part in order to change the national debate just before election day. he cannot compete on issues of the economy, climate change, foreign relations, the war in Iraq etc, ...so choosing a running mate with a pregnant teen, changes the topic of discussion to abortion. An area that fires up the evangelical right. He throws a child into the fray, knowing Americans would never vote against a child. They're looking to psychologically frame this as a vote against Mccain, equates to a vote against women, or against loving support for an unwed pregnant teen.

No, what McCain is trying to do with Palin is re-frame his candidacy as one of change, reform and "cleaning up Washington." Palin's Alaska rep is as a reformer and she is also someone outside of the Washington establishment. McCain used to be considered a reformer when he was somewhat of a maverick.

[Dos Equis]

One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now.  Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this?  I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting.  Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.

Truth.