Richard Dawkins Believes in Intelligent Design??

[The Luke]

Homeopathy is purely a placebo...

Think about it... any sample of water will be a homeopathic remedy for any and all substances.

There is no water anywhere on this planet that hasn't at one time or another in some dilution come into contact with EVERY possible substance on this planet.

Your drinking water is (must be) a homeopathic tincture with a "memory" of:
-sewage
-cocaine
-pharmaceuticals
-blood
-miscarriages
-condoms
...anything and everything that has ever been flushed down a toilet anywhere.

Cop on people. It's a total crock of shit.


The Luke

[Necrosis]

Homeopathy is purely a placebo...

Think about it... any sample of water will be a homeopathic remedy for any and all substances.

There is no water anywhere on this planet that hasn't at one time or another in some dilution come into contact with EVERY possible substance on this planet.

Your drinking water is (must be) a homeopathic tincture with a "memory" of:
-sewage
-cocaine
-pharmaceuticals
-blood
-miscarriages
-condoms
...anything and everything that has ever been flushed down a toilet anywhere.

Cop on people. It's a total crock of shit.


The Luke

thats not how homeopathy works in theory, simple contact is not sufficient, you dont know what your talking about enough to even have an opinion.

have you read any material on homeopathy? what do you know of how remedies are made? I think there is something to it although i dont buy the explanation.

[The Luke]

thats not how homeopathy works in theory, simple contact is not sufficient, you dont know what your talking about enough to even have an opinion.

...I know enough about homeopathy to recognize it for what it is: quasi-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

It is impossible to create a homeopathic remedy.

How can you dilute the homeopathic dosing agent? Where do you find molecularly pure water that hasn't ever touched another substance?

It's bollocks.


The Luke

[Necrosis]

...I know enough about homeopathy to recognize it for what it is: quasi-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

It is impossible to create a homeopathic remedy.

How can you dilute the homeopathic dosing agent? Where do you find molecularly pure water that hasn't ever touched another substance?

It's bollocks.


The Luke

oh ok good argument.


"It is impossible to create a homeopathic remedy.
How can you dilute the homeopathic dosing agent?"

what? this doesnt even contain sense. Are you asking how you compare it to placebo? what are you asking, you misunderstand the very tenats of homeopathy, how can i even argue with you?

[liberalismo]

Homeopathy is purely a placebo...

Think about it... any sample of water will be a homeopathic remedy for any and all substances.

There is no water anywhere on this planet that hasn't at one time or another in some dilution come into contact with EVERY possible substance on this planet.

Your drinking water is (must be) a homeopathic tincture with a "memory" of:
-sewage
-cocaine
-pharmaceuticals
-blood
-miscarriages
-condoms
...anything and everything that has ever been flushed down a toilet anywhere.

Cop on people. It's a total crock of shit.


The Luke

Haha. Good post.

People who buy into Homeopathy B.S. don't realize that all clean drinking water would, by basic homeopathy laws, be a conglomeration of a countless number of disgusting and poisonous things.

 

[liberalismo]

thats not how homeopathy works in theory, simple contact is not sufficient, you dont know what your talking about enough to even have an opinion.

have you read any material on homeopathy? what do you know of how remedies are made? I think there is something to it although i dont buy the explanation.

No...Simple contact isn't enough. "Vigorous shaking" does the trick.   

[The Luke]

No...Simple contact isn't enough. "Vigorous shaking" does the trick.   

Yes, it's the "vigorous shaking" that does the trick... the molecular speeds just aren't fast enough, ha-ha!


The Luke

[Necrosis]

your both wrong still. serial dilution or potentization is required.

The theory is inherently logical, but i dont buy energetics. There may be a pharmacological explanation. Look at histaglobin.

[Necrosis]

Haha. Good post.

People who buy into Homeopathy B.S. don't realize that all clean drinking water would, by basic homeopathy laws, be a conglomeration of a countless number of disgusting and poisonous things.

 

your showing your ignorance here, his argument doesnt make sense as simple contact is not how homeopathic remedies are made. Also if the original substance is poisonous it would be curative if your statement made any sense, again you are wrong.

Im not arguing for homeopathy or accupuncture as you can see, im just exposing ignorance from people who are not qualified to even comment on the subject, the above argument shows this ignorance.

[liberalismo]

your both wrong still. serial dilution or potentization is required.

The theory is inherently logical, but i dont buy energetics. There may be a pharmacological explanation. Look at histaglobin.

Tap water is already diluted naturally.

"Potentisation" is the process that includes the dilution and shaking of the substance. This also occurs naturally in basic tap water.

So this means that basic tap water must include the properties of cocaine, semen, heroin, countless poisons, etc., etc.

[liberalismo]

your showing your ignorance here, his argument doesnt make sense as simple contact is not how homeopathic remedies are made. Also if the original substance is poisonous it would be curative if your statement made any sense, again you are wrong.

Im not arguing for homeopathy or accupuncture as you can see, im just exposing ignorance from people who are not qualified to even comment on the subject, the above argument shows this ignorance.

Samuel Hahnemann (The guy who came up with homeopathy) was onto something in thinking that small amounts of something that causes sickness can cure sickness, but his entire line of thinking was wrong. He reasoned that if Chicona bark cures cures Malaria, and eating the bark produces some of the effects of Malaria..ALL things that produce the effects of a disease must cure the disease. Essentially bullshit.

[Necrosis]

Samuel Hahnemann (The guy who came up with homeopathy) was onto something in thinking that small amounts of something that causes sickness can cure sickness, but his entire line of thinking was wrong. He reasoned that if Chicona bark cures cures Malaria, and eating the bark produces some of the effects of Malaria..ALL things that produce the effects of a disease must cure the disease. Essentially bullshit.

i know, im educated in medicine and CAM.

[Necrosis]

Tap water is already diluted naturally.

"Potentisation" is the process that includes the dilution and shaking of the substance. This also occurs naturally in basic tap water.

So this means that basic tap water must include the properties of cocaine, semen, heroin, countless poisons, etc., etc.

wrong again, keep trying. Acutally read what 12C is then tell me tap water is the same thing, not to mention the movement of tap water over different materials.

[liberalismo]

i know, im educated in medicine and CAM.

I feel bad for you. What a waste of time!

wrong again, keep trying. Acutally read what 12C is then tell me tap water is the same thing, not to mention the movement of tap water over different materials.

A 12 C dilution would likely contain just 1 molecule of the original diluted substance. Most homeopathic dilutions are much more diluted and contain no molecules at all. Tap water would be between a 4C and 100C for most substances. If homeopathy were true, Tap water would have the "attributes" of tons of poisons, cocaine, semen, and all sorts of other ungodly substances.

[Necrosis]

I feel bad for you. What a waste of time!

A 12 C dilution would likely contain just 1 molecule of the original diluted substance. Most homeopathic dilutions are much more diluted and contain no molecules at all. Tap water would be between a 4C and 100C for most substances. If homeopathy were true, Tap water would have the "attributes" of tons of poisons, cocaine, semen, and all sorts of other ungodly substances.

to be a GP and a ND? ignorant comments continue to flow from your mouth. Dr weil is someone i would like to model my practice after.

"Three potency scales are in regular use in homeopathy. Hahnemann created the centesimal or "C scale", diluting a substance by a factor of 100 at each stage. The centesimal scale was favored by Hahnemann for most of his life. A 2C dilution requires a substance to be diluted to one part in one hundred, and then some of that diluted solution is diluted by a further factor of one hundred. This works out to one part of the original solution mixed into 9,999 parts (100 × 100 −1) of the diluent.[69] A 6C dilution repeats this process six times, ending up with the original material diluted by a factor of 100-6=10-12. Higher dilutions follow the same pattern. In homeopathy, a solution that is more dilute is described as having a higher potency. More dilute substances are considered by homeopaths to be stronger and deeper-acting remedies."

you think tap water is diluted this many times? your out of your mind. your thinking of dilution in a sense of molecules of substance in water, you see say belladonna is taken and diluted 100 times in the same water for 1C, then on an on. if you think that tap water is 100C i dont know what to say to you.

I required to know homeopathy, pharmacology, botanical medicine, nutrition, counselling,accupuncture along with orthomolecular medicine and supplementation. Of course i will be in school for 13 years but ive already completed 9 so i hardly think it will be a waste.

[liberalismo]

to be a GP and a ND? ignorant comments continue to flow from your mouth. Dr weil is someone i would like to model my practice after.

"Three potency scales are in regular use in homeopathy. Hahnemann created the centesimal or "C scale", diluting a substance by a factor of 100 at each stage. The centesimal scale was favored by Hahnemann for most of his life. A 2C dilution requires a substance to be diluted to one part in one hundred, and then some of that diluted solution is diluted by a further factor of one hundred. This works out to one part of the original solution mixed into 9,999 parts (100 × 100 −1) of the diluent.[69] A 6C dilution repeats this process six times, ending up with the original material diluted by a factor of 100-6=10-12. Higher dilutions follow the same pattern. In homeopathy, a solution that is more dilute is described as having a higher potency. More dilute substances are considered by homeopaths to be stronger and deeper-acting remedies."

you think tap water is diluted this many times? your out of your mind. your thinking of dilution in a sense of molecules of substance in water, you see say belladonna is taken and diluted 100 times in the same water for 1C, then on an on. if you think that tap water is 100C i dont know what to say to you.

I required to know homeopathy, pharmacology, botanical medicine, nutrition, counselling,accupuncture along with orthomolecular medicine and supplementation. Of course i will be in school for 13 years but ive already completed 9 so i hardly think it will be a waste.

1. If you only knew how much tap water is diluted. Did you know that the water that we drink is contains the same molecules of water that was consumed by Julius Caesar, Ramses, Ganges Khan, Adolf Hitler, George Washington, Etc.? That is how many times typical tap water is diluted, it's the same water being used over and over again for century after century in the earth's water cycle.


2. Again..If you spent so long learning about Homeopathy and Acupuncture then you have wasted a lot of your life. I pity you.



3. 
 

[Oldschool Flip]

I think Ben Stein is shooting VISINE into his brain instead of his "dry eyes" now.

[Necrosis]

1. If you only knew how much tap water is diluted. Did you know that the water that we drink is contains the same molecules of water that was consumed by Julius Caesar, Ramses, Ganges Khan, Adolf Hitler, George Washington, Etc.? That is how many times typical tap water is diluted, it's the same water being used over and over again for century after century in the earth's water cycle.


2. Again..If you spent so long learning about Homeopathy and Acupuncture then you have wasted a lot of your life. I pity you.



3. 
 

i have spent a couple of classes learning it, and according to the research and medical school accupuncture has merit, dont be so close minded. the other years i spent getting a degree in psychology/neuroscience and learning medicine, you know anatomy, immunology,biochemistry aka science, you should try it.

2. your pretty much stating what richard dawkins did in his book,re-cycle much? not the same thing, again read about homeopathy. serial dilution and percussion is how it is made with the same exact water, not even close to mixing water, mixing substances etc...

3. your wrong, hence the continued discussion.

[liberalismo]

i have spent a couple of classes learning it, and according to the research and medical school accupuncture has merit, dont be so close minded. the other years i spent getting a degree in psychology/neuroscience and learning medicine, you know anatomy, immunology,biochemistry aka science, you should try it.

2. your pretty much stating what richard dawkins did in his book,re-cycle much? not the same thing, again read about homeopathy. serial dilution and percussion is how it is made with the same exact water, not even close to mixing water, mixing substances etc...

3. your wrong, hence the continued discussion.

Just because I don't believe in bullshit quackery doesn't mean I am closed minded.

I don't know what Richard Dawkins stated in what book. Has Dawkins ever discussed homeopathy?

[The Luke]

i have spent a couple of classes learning it, and according to the research and medical school accupuncture has merit, dont be so close minded. the other years i spent getting a degree in psychology/neuroscience and learning medicine, you know anatomy, immunology,biochemistry aka science, you should try it.

2. your pretty much stating what richard dawkins did in his book,re-cycle much? not the same thing, again read about homeopathy. serial dilution and percussion is how it is made with the same exact water, not even close to mixing water, mixing substances etc...

3. your wrong, hence the continued discussion.

...classic, just classic.

You have to shake it to make the magic happen!

The water molecules, zipping around at thousands of miles an hour, somehow "know" when they've been shaken by a person preparing a homeopathic remedy... very distinct from the shaking that happens when those same water molecules tumble down a waterfall; through a tap; fall as rain; are pissed into a toilet etc. etc.

What is wrong with these people... deliberately deluding themselves.


The Luke

[Necrosis]

...classic, just classic.

You have to shake it to make the magic happen!

The water molecules, zipping around at thousands of miles an hour, somehow "know" when they've been shaken by a person preparing a homeopathic remedy... very distinct from the shaking that happens when those same water molecules tumble down a waterfall; through a tap; fall as rain; are pissed into a toilet etc. etc.

What is wrong with these people... deliberately deluding themselves.


The Luke

i agree, i beleive homeopathy to be garbage, i havent said otherwise, some variants may be effective but homeopathy has quackery written all over it. I'm simply arguing that you guys are misrepresenting what it states, and how remedies are made,basically that your above argument is flawed.

Homeopathy in itself is logical, but is not based on what we know of medicine.

[Necrosis]

Just because I don't believe in bullshit quackery doesn't mean I am closed minded.

I don't know what Richard Dawkins stated in what book. Has Dawkins ever discussed homeopathy?

i presented you with peer reviewed published articles on accupuncture, i have told you that my medical school has an accupuncture course now and you think you are not close minded? Im the most critical person i know, I doubt the monoamine theory of depression, i think psychology and freud, piaget,erickson etc.. are/is bullshit and useless, i think we are to clean and need more parasites, bacteria etc... i however will use whatever works to make sick people healthy, to quote hahnemann "the physicians highest, his only calling is to make the sick healthy". I agree, that is why i wont use homeopathy in my practice, its to eractic, to unpredictable and accepted methods with sound scientific data exist. I just want to have a bigger toolbox and if i could i would choose not to study homeopathy, but the other courses i want like clinical nutrition, herb drug interaction, bot med, and advanced biochemistry and counselling are grouped with it.

if accupuncture offers relief how is it quackery. Caveman didnt need to know about oxidation to be burned by fire. The mechanism may be pharmacological, energetic,fairies,santa claus i dont care, that shit is epiphenomenal to the paramount use, as a therapeutic tool. To brush it aside because the common mechanism may be outside our current paradigm while still being effective is the definition of close minded.

i was referring to your quote about water being recycled and you mentioning certain historical figures, dawkins did this exact same thing in The God Delusion, bit of a coincidence.

[Necrosis]

...classic, just classic.

You have to shake it to make the magic happen!

The water molecules, zipping around at thousands of miles an hour, somehow "know" when they've been shaken by a person preparing a homeopathic remedy... very distinct from the shaking that happens when those same water molecules tumble down a waterfall; through a tap; fall as rain; are pissed into a toilet etc. etc.

What is wrong with these people... deliberately deluding themselves.


The Luke

if you want a good laugh at homeopathy look up imponderables and miasms, the shit gets more wild as you read on. Imponderables are remedies made by immaterial things, like moonlight. I shit you not, fucking north star remedy exists

[liberalismo]

i presented you with peer reviewed published articles on accupuncture, i have told you that my medical school has an accupuncture course now and you think you are not close minded?

Yes. I'm very open minded.

Im the most critical person i know,

 

I doubt the monoamine theory of depression, i think psychology and freud, piaget,erickson etc.. are/is bullshit

I'm sorry, but denying science and accepting pseudoscience doesn't make you critical. It makes you an idiot.

if accupuncture offers relief how is it quackery.

Because its principles are false.

Caveman didnt need to know about oxidation to be burned by fire. The mechanism may be pharmacological, energetic,fairies,santa claus i dont care, that shit is epiphenomenal to the paramount use, as a therapeutic tool. To brush it aside because the common mechanism may be outside our current paradigm while still being effective is the definition of close minded.

The mechanism isn't beyond our understand. Scientists know how and why sticking needles into one's skin relieves pain.

i was referring to your quote about water being recycled and you mentioning certain historical figures, dawkins did this exact same thing in The God Delusion, bit of a coincidence.

I don't remember seeing that in the God delusion.

[Necrosis]

Yes. I'm very open minded.


 

I'm sorry, but denying science and accepting pseudoscience doesn't make you critical. It makes you an idiot.




The mechanism isn't beyond our understand. Scientists know how and why sticking needles into one's skin relieves pain.


I don't remember seeing that in the God delusion.

"I'm sorry, but denying science and accepting pseudoscience doesn't make you critical. It makes you an idiot."


. Please give me your thoughts on the monoamine theory of depression and why the development of such drugs are done so in a poor manner. SSRIS are based on false principles, wrong again chief. I beleive in everything that has been peer reviewed and doesnt stretch credulity. I dont think you want to get into a scientific discussion here, so far you have presented no evidence while i have. Your statement above is also considered character assasination as i said i didnt beleive in homeopathy, However i beleive accupuncture may be effective based on the research, how does your quote above hold any truth?

"Because its principles are false."

first off you dont even have a working knowledge of what your talking about, secondly provide some evidence. I want say if i agree or not but if you want to be scientific please provide peer reviewed research to support your statements, i will do so from now on.

"The mechanism isn't beyond our understand. Scientists know how and why sticking needles into one's skin relieves pain."

i didnt say it was another mis representation of what i said. As for your second statement prove it, also, if the theory is true then how does it work for nausea like the study above? does it bind to serotonergic receptors in the intestines like ginger, does it simply negate sensation in the stomach etc... how does it cause sedation and alterated heart stroke volume, there are also more exmaples of things it has been studied in. Your simpleton theory is weak at best. Also i doubt you have any knowledge of the endogenous opiate receptor, its densities in particular areas, time it takes to act etc.. Please provide evidence for your theory and how it works on other areas besides pain.

"I don't remember seeing that in the God delusion. "

he talked about water being recycled and us by the law of probability possibly drinking water from the bladder of julius caesar etc.. i can give you the page and exact quote if you like.


"Yes. I'm very open minded."

does accupuncture have a place in modern medicine, yes or no.