Author Topic: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?  (Read 22928 times)

Robbie

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2008, 04:06:50 PM »
RON PAUL'S SPEECH BEFORE CONGRESS - REASON FOR THE COLLAPSE

The Austrians Were Right
by Congressman Ron Paul

Congressman Ron Paul speaking before the US House of Representatives

November 20, 2008

 
Madame Speaker, many Americans are hoping the new administration will solve the economic problems we face. That's not likely to happen, because the economic advisors to the new President have no more understanding of how to get us out of this mess than previous administrations and Congresses understood how the crisis was brought about in the first place.

Except for a rare few, Members of Congress are unaware of Austrian Free Market economics. For the last 80 years, the legislative, judiciary and executive branches of our government have been totally influenced by Keynesian economics. If they had had any understanding of the Austrian economic explanation of the business cycle, they would have never permitted the dangerous bubbles that always lead to painful corrections.

Today, a major economic crisis is unfolding. New government programs are started daily, and future plans are being made for even more.  All are based on the belief that we're in this mess because free-market capitalism and sound money failed. The obsession is with more spending, bailouts of bad investments, more debt, and further dollar debasement. Many are saying we need an international answer to our problems with the establishment of a world central bank and a single fiat reserve currency. These suggestions are merely more of the same policies that created our mess and are doomed to fail.

At least 90% of the cause for the financial crisis can be laid at the doorstep of the Federal Reserve. It is the manipulation of credit, the money supply, and interest rates that caused the various bubbles to form. Congress added fuel to the fire by various programs and institutions like the Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, FDIC, and HUD mandates, which were all backed up by aggressive court rulings.

The Fed has now doled out close to $2 trillion in subsidized loans to troubled banks and other financial institutions. The Federal Reserve and Treasury constantly brag about the need for "transparency" and "oversight," but it's all just talk – they want none of it. They want secrecy while the privileged are rescued at the expense of the middle class.

It is unimaginable that Congress could be so derelict in its duty.  It does nothing but condone the arrogance of the Fed in its refusal to tell us where the $2 trillion has gone. All Members of Congress and all Americans should be outraged that conditions could deteriorate to this degree. It's no wonder that a large and growing number of Americans are now demanding an end to the Fed.

The Federal Reserve created our problem, yet it manages to gain even more power in the socialization of the entire financial system. The whole bailout process this past year was characterized by no oversight, no limits, no concerns, no understanding, and no common sense.

Similar mistakes were made in the 1930s and ushered in the age of the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the Great Society and the supply-siders who convinced conservatives that deficits didn't really matter after all, since they were anxious to finance a very expensive deficit-financed American empire.

All the programs since the Depression were meant to prevent recessions and depressions. Yet all that was done was to plant the seeds of the greatest financial bubble in all history. Because of this lack of understanding, the stage is now set for massive nationalization of the financial system and quite likely the means of production.

Although it is obvious that the Keynesians were all wrong and interventionism and central economic planning don't work, whom are we listening to for advice on getting us out of this mess?  Unfortunately, it's the Keynesians, the socialists, and big-government proponents.

Who's being ignored? The Austrian free-market economists – the very ones who predicted not only the Great Depression, but the calamity we're dealing with today. If the crisis was predictable and is explainable, why did no one listen? It's because too many politicians believed that a free lunch was possible and a new economic paradigm had arrived. But we've heard that one before – like the philosopher' s stone that could turn lead into gold.  Prosperity without work is a dream of the ages.

Over and above this are those who understand that political power is controlled by those who control the money supply. Liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats came to believe, as they were taught in our universities, that deficits don't matter and that Federal Reserve accommodation by monetizing debt is legitimate and never harmful. The truth is otherwise. Central economic planning is always harmful. Inflating the money supply and purposely devaluing the dollar is always painful and dangerous.

The policies of big-government proponents are running out of steam.
Their policies have failed and will continue to fail. Merely doing more of what caused the crisis can hardly provide a solution.

The good news is that Austrian economists are gaining more acceptance every day and have a greater chance of influencing our future than they've had for a long time.

The basic problem is that proponents of big government require a central bank in order to surreptitiously pay bills without direct taxation. Printing needed money delays the payment. Raising taxes would reveal the true cost of big government, and the people would revolt. But the piper will be paid, and that's what this crisis is all about.

There are limits. A country cannot forever depend on a central bank to keep the economy afloat and the currency functionable through constant acceleration of money supply growth. Eventually the laws of economics will overrule the politicians, the bureaucrats and the central bankers. The system will fail to respond unless the excess debt and mal-investment is liquidated. If it goes too far and the wild extravagance is not arrested, runaway inflation will result, and an entirely new currency will be required to restore growth and reasonable political stability.

The choice we face is ominous: We either accept world-wide authoritarian government holding together a flawed system, OR we restore the principles of the Constitution, limit government power, restore commodity money without a Federal Reserve system, reject world government, and promote the cause of peace by protecting liberty equally for all persons. Freedom is the answer.

 
Ron Paul

Robbie

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2008, 04:08:12 PM »
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Check out the bottom four countries... What do they all have in common?

The True Adonis

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2008, 04:08:59 PM »
Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
You are wasting your time with canned definitions.  You should also read Francis Bellamy.  He is the Christian Socialist who created The Pledge of Allegiance (although his original version was written without any reference to a god or a specific country for the 1892 World`s Fair celebration meant for schoolboy recital).  As a Christian Socialist and author of a creed you love, his Pledge, expresses the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897)..

Read both Bellamys, they may appeal to you.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2008, 04:10:13 PM »
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Check out the bottom four countries... What do they all have in common?
Proves that countires that lean towards Democratic Socialism are the most profitable and solvent.

The True Adonis

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2008, 04:11:16 PM »
Ok, I'm done here. Sorry Adam, but we're going to have to agree to disagree.
You are wasting your time with canned definitions.  You should also read Francis Bellamy.  He is the Christian Socialist who created The Pledge of Allegiance (although his original version was written without any reference to a god or a specific country for the 1892 World`s Fair celebration meant for schoolboy recital).  As a Christian Socialist and author of a creed you love, his Pledge, expresses the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897)..

Read both Bellamys, they may appeal to you.

Robbie

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2008, 04:11:52 PM »
Proves that countires that lean towards Democratic Socialism are the most profitable and solvent.

The BOTTOM four countries invaded Iraq...

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2008, 04:13:14 PM »
let em go.  forget general motors...generic name & horrible brand.

The True Adonis

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2008, 04:15:02 PM »
The BOTTOM four countries invaded Iraq...
You would be more apt to realize the true nature of that statistic from the CIA factbook and realize that countries at the top tend towards Democratic Socialist models.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2008, 04:34:02 PM »
I have no problem with the Big 3 as companies, the real problem is the unions and their greed.  No one should be getting paid $70.00 to turn a wrench, sorry but that's just nonsense.   Most of that money doesn't even go into the pockets of the workers it goes to the Unions.  The unions have fucked up American car companies and need to go.  When I said let them fail I do mean that, they need to go under and come back without unions being involved with them at all.
Emmortal,

I just came across this regarding the 70$ an hour myth.  Please watch.
70 dollars an hour is NOT TRUE

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2008, 04:37:31 PM »
Emmortal,

I just came across this regarding the 70$ an hour myth.  Please watch.
70 dollars an hour is NOT TRUE

the better way to compute it is in how much it costs the company per car to pay these benefits to both retirees and current workers and it's way higher for the US automakers than for the Japanese automakers.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2008, 04:39:06 PM »
TA, what are your thoughts on labor unions? 

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2008, 04:46:58 PM »
the better way to compute it is in how much it costs the company per car to pay these benefits to both retirees and current workers and it's way higher for the US automakers than for the Japanese automakers.
And this is due to the fact that we have no Universal Healthcare system whereas they do.  The burden is then shifted on the corporation when they have to pay for Healtcare.

We can`t just stop benefits from people who worked their whole lives and paid into penisons and their healthcare.


We can alleviate the monetary burden off the corporations by billions if we institute a true National Healthcare system ala France, Norway, Germany, Japan etc...

The amount the Big 3 alone would save if we had Universal Healthcare in play could have potentially made any bailout completely unnecessary.  Clearly it would make any future bailouts irrelevant.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2008, 04:48:23 PM »
And this is due to the fact that we have no Universal Healthcare system whereas they do.  The burden is then shifted on the corporation when they have to pay for Healtcare.

We can`t just stop benefits from people who worked their whole lives and paid into penisons and their healthcare.


We can alleviate the monetary burden off the corporations by billions if we institute a true National Healthcare system ala France, Norway, Germany, Japan etc...

The amount the Big 3 alone would save if we had Universal Healthcare in play could have potentially made any bailout completely unnecessary.  Clearly it would make any future bailouts irrelevant.
i agree with you 110 percent on the universal healthcare, should be commonplace in a so called "civilized, first world" country.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2008, 04:56:03 PM »
TA, what are your thoughts on labor unions? 

Without them, the world and the United States would be further behind than we currently are in regards to fairness and equality.  Robber-Barons simply cannot run rough-shod over the worker and expect to get away freely with it.  It lowers the standard of living greatly as there will always be expendable schmucks to hire for lower wages. (we see this happening in other countries, cheap labor which equals a lower standard for all)   They set a precedent that workers will be treated fairly with decent working conditions and with decent pay..  Pre-Labor union America was not a pretty or fair sight to witness.


Labor Unions also take over unemployment costs and benefits at times which in turn alleviates the burden from the employer.
Labor Unions do not require membership and many workers choose not to join.  I support their right fully to organize.

Emmortal

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2008, 04:58:59 PM »
Without them, the world and the United States would be further behind than we currently are in regards to fairness and equality.  Robber-Barons simply cannot run rough-shod over the worker and expect to get away freely with it.  It lowers the standard of living greatly as there will always be expendable schmucks to hire for lower wages. (we see this happening in other countries, cheap labor which equals a lower standard for all)   They set a precedent that workers will be treated fairly with decent working conditions and with decent pay..  Pre-Labor union America was not a pretty or fair sight to witness.


Labor Unions also take over unemployment costs and benefits at times which in turn alleviates the burden from the employer.
Labor Unions do not require membership and many workers choose not to join.  I support their right fully to organize.

Completely false.  This may have been true over 50 years ago but much legislation has been put forward to protect workers and their rights making labor unions an antiquated entity that is completely not needed.  I do agree that pre-union America was not a pretty place, but that was long before we have the laws we have today which negate anything a union has to offer as far as fairness and equality.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2008, 05:05:17 PM »
i agree with you 110 percent on the universal healthcare, should be commonplace in a so called "civilized, first world" country.
It is amazing how many problems Universal Healthcare would solve financially in regards to businesses of all sizes no longer having to shell out billions in Health Insurance.

Another interesting but little talked about plus with Universal Healthcare is the fact that it renders Car Insurance no longer a requirement.  Since everyone is covered even in traffic accidents, no matter who is at fault, car insurance as a pre-requisite by law due to medical costs becomes obsolete.  Car Insurance then switches over to becoming optional. If you value your car or think you may need insurance to pay for it, you insure it.  Someone hits you, or you hit them, your car insurance covers it.  If you choose not to insure your car and do not wish to have it paid for if something happens, then it falls solely into your own jurisdiction to pay for it.  Car Insurance then operates like any other Insurance, Life, Fire, Flood, Home instead of the vast unfair constriction that it is today. 

Auto Insurance is another drain on all americans and should be optional.  With Universal Healthcare instated Auto Insurance becomes what it was meant to be, an option to get your car fixed if its broken and that is all.  This becomes BILLIONS of dollars saved in a short time.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2008, 05:07:33 PM »
Completely false.  This may have been true over 50 years ago but much legislation has been put forward to protect workers and their rights making labor unions an antiquated entity that is completely not needed.  I do agree that pre-union America was not a pretty place, but that was long before we have the laws we have today which negate anything a union has to offer as far as fairness and equality.


Why should workers not have the right to assemble?  It is unconstitutional to not allow such assembly.

Corporations do have the right to turn a blind eye to Unions and some do, but they know they save and earn more money by allowing Unionization.  Remember, Unionization is optional.

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2008, 05:12:39 PM »
Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.

Marty Champions

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2008, 05:15:41 PM »
hell i cant even get an appointment to see the ear doc till january


what they should allow is "backyard practices" very cool and futuristicly fitting in this  "mad max" world thats its about to become...this way people can get fucking helped on time

and little tyrone and jerome in the fucking ghetto can go learn how to be a doctor in gradeschool and by highschool be an expert at it, not wasting time with lame classes like spanish and social studies

little fvcking tyrone would have a microscope and diagnose and tell other poor people whats wrong with them and help them right in the basement area of the project housing complex
A

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2008, 05:16:08 PM »
Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.
Please provide hard data. You are operating on total myth and rhetoric. Nobody is coming over here en masse for any kind of healthcare.  Furthermore, I can`t name a country that has Universal Healthcare and that it is failing.

The United States is THE ONLY industrialized nation to not have Universal Healthcare and our system is not even close to being the best.


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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2008, 05:16:30 PM »
Thats not socialism, the profits were redistributed from oil companies not from wealthier private citizens. Thats distributing dividends from profit.

Sarah Palin used the S-word a lot during the campaign to motivate her base.

But in reality, she did condone it in her own state before the election, and attended a meeting with Obama after the election to ask for state bailout $.  

She, like all governors and senators, believes in the tenets of socialism and does practice them.  However, it made for a super-ifty campaign slogan, so she ran with it.  

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2008, 05:18:13 PM »
Universal health care is not working well in alot of countries, thats why people from socialist countries come to america. We have 3-4 states here who's universal health care is failing. Imagine what it would do to the rest of the country. What is it with you people who want to pay an exorbitant about of taxes and want the government to run your lives? Thats not what the government is there for.

universal health care will never happen.  The promise of it is what Dems use to get elected.  The promise of preventing it is what Repubs use to get elected.  The fact of the matter is, neither party cares about that 1/6 of the population with no coverage, and we'll never see it as a nation.  It's a wedge issue with little bearing on our lives, but one that sure is fun to debate.

Marty Champions

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2008, 05:18:34 PM »
this country is doomed to fail. better know to be your own mother fvcking doctor, its too fvcking bad if your stupid
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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2008, 05:19:28 PM »

Marty Champions

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Re: Is anyone watching this bailout BS?
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2008, 05:21:54 PM »
why dont they make if fvking mandatory for the little bastard kids in highschool to become a doctor like 30 percent if its such a big problem.

this country is so fvckin gay a bunch of whiners whod get fatigued painting a few walls and pulling nails

the real problem in the future will be food shortage. this will effect the hard workers who require alot of food to do alot of THINGS

people dont get shit done sittng on there asses calling shots, maybe they have in the past and right now but in the future people are going to have to get up off there asses and do some fucking studying and real work in the feilds
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