Author Topic: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence  (Read 9473 times)

tonymctones

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2008, 01:12:32 AM »
Another "wow" moment.  Yeah, that 1300 mile gap is a real advantage.  Good point.
you didnt answer any of my questions friend, you ever been down here and seen the prevention we have now? you ever seen the terrain these ppl have to deal with? if out of the 1300 miles 1000 of it is inhospitable terrain that leaves 300 miles jack ass...answer my questions you ever been down here and seen it or you just reiterating left wing nut jobs?

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2008, 02:40:24 AM »
Wow.

That's all I can say is, "wow."

You saw a real honest-to-god border?

I'll call Fox, CBS and NBC!

We don't have borders up here in wisconsin.

Rather call fairy land and ask for Obama he will just ask them not to cross over and that's how you'll save from spending the money on the fence  ::)

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2008, 03:25:28 AM »
Rather call fairy land and ask for Obama he will just ask them not to cross over and that's how you'll save from spending the money on the fence  ::)
idiot
!

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2008, 03:50:03 AM »
idiot

Thanks, since you have such a lacking judgment you calling me an idiot confirms that I'm doing well.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2008, 06:42:16 AM »
It is well worth it because illegal aliens cost us a fortune in health care, schools, prisons, DWI's, courts, etc etc.

Let them stay home and fix Mexico.

Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2008, 09:06:47 AM »
you didnt answer any of my questions friend, you ever been down here and seen the prevention we have now? you ever seen the terrain these ppl have to deal with? if out of the 1300 miles 1000 of it is inhospitable terrain that leaves 300 miles jack ass...answer my questions you ever been down here and seen it or you just reiterating left wing nut jobs?
I've seen footage and pictures....

Now on to your other asinine points.  Let's see, the 700 mile 1.2 billion dollar fence for a 2000+ mile border.

But wait, Tonymctones says that 1000 of those 1300 miles, apparently, are just too gosh darn tough to pass.  And he pulls this information from his best used repository of knowledge--his ass.

I just read that costs attendant to the fence could reach around 6 billion.

Too bad this fence doesn't go to the heart of the problem--the socio-economic heart of the problem.  You guys want globalization, II brings it home.  Enjoy the fruits of your worldview.

The fence is a bullshit ploy designed to appeal to voters during an election year...a very special segment of voters.


Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2008, 09:07:41 AM »
It is well worth it because illegal aliens cost us a fortune in health care, schools, prisons, DWI's, courts, etc etc.

Let them stay home and fix Mexico.
II is globalization coming home to roost.

Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2008, 09:19:01 AM »
Rather call fairy land and ask for Obama he will just ask them not to cross over and that's how you'll save from spending the money on the fence  ::)
Right..

I see your wisdom in building a 700 mile fence for a 2100 mile border.

And you say government spends money foolishly?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2008, 10:07:18 AM »
Right..

I see your wisdom in building a 700 mile fence for a 2100 mile border.

And you say government spends money foolishly?

Than why does Mexico have a fortified border with Guatamala?


IFBBwannaB

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2008, 11:58:05 AM »
Right..

I see your wisdom in building a 700 mile fence for a 2100 mile border.

And you say government spends money foolishly?

You gotta start somewhere....not to mention you ignore factors such as terrain and the fact that 700/2100=1/3 which means that they will now have 3/2 times the men power on each mile compared to no fence.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2008, 12:04:20 PM »
You gotta start somewhere....not to mention you ignore factors such as terrain and the fact that 700/2100=1/3 which means that they will now have 3/2 times the men power on each mile compared to no fence.


If someone wants to have our country flooded with these low skilled illegal aliens, they will try to make any argument against a fence.


240 is Back

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2008, 12:40:15 PM »
we all seem to hate illegals, but BOTh parties seem to do being doing everything possible to legalize them.

Remember the kennedy/mccain amnesty bill that BOTH obama and mccain supported? 

It'll happen eventually, no doubt.  Illegals are a drain, but they do a lot of work.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2008, 02:08:11 PM »
Why do you think the base of the gop did not united around MCLame?

Amnesty!

Illegals do work to send money out of this country to mexico, not to keep it here in this country. 

tonymctones

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2008, 02:46:56 PM »
I've seen footage and pictures....

Now on to your other asinine points.  Let's see, the 700 mile 1.2 billion dollar fence for a 2000+ mile border.

But wait, Tonymctones says that 1000 of those 1300 miles, apparently, are just too gosh darn tough to pass.  And he pulls this information from his best used repository of knowledge--his ass.

I just read that costs attendant to the fence could reach around 6 billion.

Too bad this fence doesn't go to the heart of the problem--the socio-economic heart of the problem.  You guys want globalization, II brings it home.  Enjoy the fruits of your worldview.

The fence is a bullshit ploy designed to appeal to voters during an election year...a very special segment of voters.
youve seen pics, I LIVE HERE NUMB NUTS i hunt in west texas right along the border you wouldnt survive more than a few days out there.

You seem to refuse to accept the strategic advantage this give the border patrol...they cover 700 miles now i was using the 1000 miles as an example not as a verifiable number but at any rate much of this land is inhospitible i know thats hard to see from PICTURES AND VIDEO which your basing your ignorant view off of. If you know what areas have terrain that dont lend itself to support life you can concentrate more of you energy else where. LOL you want us to solve their socio economic problems? what are the numbers that we spend on illegal immigrants now in prison, medical, etc... i bet its WAY OVER 6 BILLION

http://www.osa.state.ms.us/documents/performance/illegal-immigration.pdf
25 million a year just from mississippi alone...i think it would be a net gain all in all

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2008, 07:31:43 PM »
They dont want a border in the first place. 

They want millions and millions of illiterate peasants who dont speak english to come to the US, become dependent on welfare, and ensure votes for the RAT party just like they did with blacks.  As soon as amnesty and their pathway to citizenship goes through, a GOP nominee will never win again because they will have 20 million low skilled people to fool into voting for the democrat.

Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2008, 07:20:03 AM »
youve seen pics, I LIVE HERE NUMB NUTS i hunt in west texas right along the border you wouldnt survive more than a few days out there.

You seem to refuse to accept the strategic advantage this give the border patrol...they cover 700 miles now i was using the 1000 miles as an example not as a verifiable number but at any rate much of this land is inhospitible i know thats hard to see from PICTURES AND VIDEO which your basing your ignorant view off of. If you know what areas have terrain that dont lend itself to support life you can concentrate more of you energy else where. LOL you want us to solve their socio economic problems? what are the numbers that we spend on illegal immigrants now in prison, medical, etc... i bet its WAY OVER 6 BILLION

http://www.osa.state.ms.us/documents/performance/illegal-immigration.pdf
25 million a year just from mississippi alone...i think it would be a net gain all in all
My nuts are not numb. 

Your response is fairly typical.  You think your anecdotal evidence is something.  Your infantile grasp of socio-economic problems manifests itself by pointing to only a negative number (which you pull directly from your ass no  less)...what was that again, 6 billion.  Why not 6 gajillion? 

Again, 240 is right.  There are what, 11 million illegals in the country?  Who's gonna pay to round them up and deport them or jail them?

Your solution, like the fence itself, is a juvenille response to a complex problem.  Aren't many (40-50%) of the illegals in this country here as a result of an expired VISA?  How does your fuckin fence stop that?

I say we mine the border, electrify the fence and shoot to kill on-sight.

There's another well-thought out position on the matter.

Hulk knows smash.  Hulk smash brown people.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2008, 07:31:43 AM »
More rubbish. 

Its a very simple issue, made more complicated by liberals like yourself always seeking some deeper meaning to it.

These people live in a failed state and it is easier to come to the USA and work off the books and send money home than to fix where they come from.

We dont punish employers like we should and make it far too easy for these people to collect welfare, send their anchor babies to school, and to leech off the system.

If we want to solve this mess, we simply need to make it very difficult for them to operate here.

I would start by taxing their wire transfers to mexico at a rate to make sure that all income taxes were paid.     

240 is Back

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2008, 08:00:37 AM »
These people live in a failed state



Sadly, Peso has outperformed the dollar in the last 8 years. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2008, 08:22:25 AM »
Sadly, Peso has outperformed the dollar in the last 8 years. 

THAN WHY ARE THEY FLOOODING TO THE USA?????????

tonymctones

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2008, 08:28:00 AM »
My nuts are not numb. 

Your response is fairly typical.  You think your anecdotal evidence is something.  Your infantile grasp of socio-economic problems manifests itself by pointing to only a negative number (which you pull directly from your ass no  less)...what was that again, 6 billion.  Why not 6 gajillion? 

Again, 240 is right.  There are what, 11 million illegals in the country?  Who's gonna pay to round them up and deport them or jail them?

Your solution, like the fence itself, is a juvenille response to a complex problem.  Aren't many (40-50%) of the illegals in this country here as a result of an expired VISA?  How does your fuckin fence stop that?

I say we mine the border, electrify the fence and shoot to kill on-sight.

There's another well-thought out position on the matter.

Hulk knows smash.  Hulk smash brown people.
the 6 billion number was yours jackass...maybe we are miscommunicating a bit here im not saying this will solve our immigration problem. what im saying is that this will help the immigration problem more so than you give credit to it...you base your opinion off of pictures and videos and im the misinformed one? There are many many problems that need to be addressed and them crossing the border is one of them, not by any means the only or most important one but an important one none the less.

You seem to be under the thinking that these ppl go undetected through our systems...these ppl use our medical facilities, our jails, our employeers, our check cashing business b/c they dont have banking accounts...there are many ways to find these ppl. We dont necissarily need a force designated to round them up...they come into a hosptial you call the cops, they get arrested they get deported, you dont cash their checks with out some sort of proof they are a citizen...they will leave i promise.

Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2008, 08:35:39 AM »
More rubbish. 

Its a very simple issue, made more complicated by liberals like yourself always seeking some deeper meaning to it.

These people live in a failed state and it is easier to come to the USA and work off the books and send money home than to fix where they come from.

We dont punish employers like we should and make it far too easy for these people to collect welfare, send their anchor babies to school, and to leech off the system.

If we want to solve this mess, we simply need to make it very difficult for them to operate here.

I would start by taxing their wire transfers to mexico at a rate to make sure that all income taxes were paid.     
Life's as simple as you wish to make it....perspective-wise.

Mexico is a failed state?  Was it all those free market reforms implemented by Fox?

Does any of this change your mind?  (I don't know how to post the charts so you'll have to go to the source to review).

Immigration "Facts" Debunked
With so many groups having self-serving interests in the rise in US immigration the chance of getting impartial information is slight. Here is my attempt to provide some data, along with my personal opinions.

First lets discuss two of the popular themes:

"Immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans."
If this is true than why isn't the unemployment rate going up? And how is it that most new immigrants find work? There may be a changing dynamic in the work force, but this mantra doesn't explain it. The data shows that the unemployment rate various over time, but recent changes in immigration don't correlate with the trends. This will be shown below.


"Immigrants are pushing the cost of labor down."

Immigration has only risen sharply within the last 10 years. NAFTA started in 1994.


The stagnation in the wages and earnings of the working class has been going on since before Reagan. The rise in the wealth of the top 5% has grown significantly in the past 20 years. The lower sectors have not.


"Securing our borders will stop illegal immigration."
The INS estimates that roughly 40% of the illegal immigrants living in the U.S., originally entered the country on non-immigrant visas (such as H-1B, L-1, etc.). These non-immigrants have become "illegal" immigrants by overstaying their visas. These people didn't jump a fence or swim across the Rio Grande, they flew in and entered legally. Building a wall won't change this. Tracking these people would require a national identity card that would have to be presented before many transactions could be completed. In much of the world, for example, one has to surrender one's passport when booking a hotel room or register with the police as a foreign visitor. Is that what people mean by securing the border?

My take on the issues:

NAFTA has caused economic dislocation in Mexico which is forcing more people to migrate. Imports of corn have decimated the local agricultural sector and the brief rise in outsourced US manufacturing has ceased as these factories have now moved on to Asia.


(A more recent paper covers this issue in more detail USDA Study (PDF))

The decline in unionization is what is responsible for the loss of earnings power. When union participation dropped wages stagnated. There is a delay in the effect caused by the existence of multi-year labor contracts.


Countries which still have strong unionization show less disparity in the distribution of wealth.

Societies in decline find scapegoats to blame for their problems. These are always the weak, and never the cause of the problem. They are a good distraction, however.

The real issue is not immigration, but the loss of political and economic power by the working and middle classes. One can argue whether the US as a whole is in economic decline, or whether we have just become economically imbalanced. Whichever it is, immigration is not the problem. Poor economic, social and industrial policies are
 http://robertdfeinman.com/society/immigration.html

This guy makes a lot of sense to me.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2008, 08:42:17 AM »
Remember when Patton and Pershing had to go the border in 1909??????  He took out some of those mexis even back then who were causing problems.  Patton shot two of Pancho Villa's men and tied them to his car and drove them back to the base.

We need more men like George Patton and less panzies like Schumer, Dodd, and Reid.

Mexico has been a mess for decades, if not longer.   

Decker

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2008, 08:45:22 AM »
the 6 billion number was yours jackass...maybe we are miscommunicating a bit here im not saying this will solve our immigration problem. what im saying is that this will help the immigration problem more so than you give credit to it...you base your opinion off of pictures and videos and im the misinformed one? There are many many problems that need to be addressed and them crossing the border is one of them, not by any means the only or most important one but an important one none the less.

You seem to be under the thinking that these ppl go undetected through our systems...these ppl use our medical facilities, our jails, our employeers, our check cashing business b/c they dont have banking accounts...there are many ways to find these ppl. We dont necissarily need a force designated to round them up...they come into a hosptial you call the cops, they get arrested they get deported, you dont cash their checks with out some sort of proof they are a citizen...they will leave i promise.
So it was, so it was.  Actually I was referring to estimates of the long term costs of the 1.2 billion dollar fence.  The fact of the matter is still that your fuckin fence covers less than a third of the border.  All your talk about a 'natural' barrier, impassable I'd guess, that supplements the fence is just wishful thinking. 

You got your fence.  Now we'll see more illegals just get temporary visas and disappear into the crowd.  How's your fence handling that?

In spirit, every fence is defeated by a ladder.  The fence is just a sop to anti-immigrant crowds (illegal or not) and racists.

I seem to be under the impression that illegals pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the US economy in both tax payments and spending.  But wait, your side shouts, there's a Heritage Foundation study that shows...."


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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2008, 08:55:49 AM »
So it was, so it was.  Actually I was referring to estimates of the long term costs of the 1.2 billion dollar fence.  The fact of the matter is still that your fuckin fence covers less than a third of the border.  All your talk about a 'natural' barrier, impassable I'd guess, that supplements the fence is just wishful thinking. 

You got your fence.  Now we'll see more illegals just get temporary visas and disappear into the crowd.  How's your fence handling that?

In spirit, every fence is defeated by a ladder.  The fence is just a sop to anti-immigrant crowds (illegal or not) and racists.

I seem to be under the impression that illegals pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the US economy in both tax payments and spending.  But wait, your side shouts, there's a Heritage Foundation study that shows...."



Decker, question:   Do you see illegal aliens in America as a problem?

tonymctones

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Re: Americans angry over US-Mexico border fence
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2008, 09:04:38 AM »
So it was, so it was.  Actually I was referring to estimates of the long term costs of the 1.2 billion dollar fence.  The fact of the matter is still that your fuckin fence covers less than a third of the border.  All your talk about a 'natural' barrier, impassable I'd guess, that supplements the fence is just wishful thinking. 

You got your fence.  Now we'll see more illegals just get temporary visas and disappear into the crowd.  How's your fence handling that?

In spirit, every fence is defeated by a ladder.  The fence is just a sop to anti-immigrant crowds (illegal or not) and racists.

I seem to be under the impression that illegals pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the US economy in both tax payments and spending.  But wait, your side shouts, there's a Heritage Foundation study that shows...."
and my point was that the fence and other steps will cost less in the long run then dealing with illegal immigrants and the problems the present...

yes but in keeping with that logic there is nothing we can do to prevent illegals from coming over ever b/c no matter what we do there will always be somebody who beats the system...does that mean we shouldnt try?

LOL dont get me wrong bro i understand better that most on here or in general what illegals contribute to the economy...I currently work for a custom home builder(who doesnt use illegals but have seen other companies that do), done landscaping(not mowing i mean fuking landscaping) and many other jobs in my youth that dealt with illegals...but to just look at that and ignore the facts that they are a drain on our government systems and increase crime rate among other factors is ignorant and not the best way of looking at things bro.