Bench press help!

[vic86]

i  want to build decent weight on bench,my current bench is very embarassing, my delts are strong compared to my chest, i always use textbook form in DB`s and Barbells,also i tend to train my tricep with my chest , should i train them separately?also i tend to do barbellrows same weight as my bench and my numbers are good in that.

i see lot of "Trainers" benching with a sloppy technique with 4 inch ROM and trying to outlift you

any help?would be appreciated

[tbombz]

one of the bbest ways to build strength quickly is to do "heavy negatives"

load up 150% of your maximum bench press. (so if you bench 100 then load up 150. if you bench 200 then load up 300.)   then have somebody spot you, make sure they are stong enough to lift the wight, then you slowly lower the bar to your chest, then the spotter lifts the bar back up for you,, then you lower the bar again. you only doing half the rep, the "eccentric portion" ( the protion of the lift in which you lower the weight)

[wes]

An article I wrote guaranteed to work as long as you follow it to the letter:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wescott1.htm

[wes]

one of the bbest ways to build strength quickly is to do "heavy negatives"

load up 150% of your maximum bench press. (so if you bench 100 then load up 150. if you bench 200 then load up 300.)   then have somebody spot you, make sure they are stong enough to lift the wight, then you slowly lower the bar to your chest, then the spotter lifts the bar back up for you,, then you lower the bar again. you only doing half the rep, the "eccentric portion" ( the protion of the lift in which you lower the weight)

The spotter will get huge traps if nothing else.

Negatives are great but if the lifter is inexperienced,he could easily tear a pec or develop rotator cuff injuries.

Only for advanced trainers.

[The_Apprentice]

I am just starting to work out on a regular basis. I notice that I can lift a fair amount of weight at the start of my routine, but just don't have the power later on. What can I do to improve my strength so I can stay longer at the gym¿¿¿ Any help would be awesome.....!

[JasonH]

Negatives are awful - I don't know why anyone would advocate them.

Forced reps are the way to go if you want to increase your bench press in my opinion.

[tonymctones]

Negatives are awful - I don't know why anyone would advocate them.

Forced reps are the way to go if you want to increase your bench press in my opinion.

pretty much the only difference between negatives and forced reps is that youve pre exhausted the muscle although in all honesty i like forced reps better as they are easier on the joints but i think negatives definitely have a time and place.

Also bring up your triceps, body weight dips and try to get up to hanging weights off of you, military presses, and in all honesty strengthning you back will help some as well.

[tbombz]

The spotter will get huge traps if nothing else.

Negatives are great but if the lifter is inexperienced,he could easily tear a pec or develop rotator cuff injuries.

Only for advanced trainers.

yeah, the lifter performing negatioves definitely needs to "know how to lift" in order to do them effectively and safely.

[triple_pickle]

one of the bbest ways to build strength quickly is to do "heavy negatives"

load up 150% of your maximum bench press....

brutal pec tears

[tonymctones]

brutal pec tears

LOL ya i dont think 150% is a good guide i couldnt even unrack 150% of my max, when i do negatives i usually got about 30 to 50 lbs over my whatever i use for my last set. I havent maxed out in years but if i used the 150% i think that would put my negatives on bench at around 500lbs or so LOL hahahah i couldnt even imagine trying that shit.

[triple_pickle]

yeah, my bench is around 350 now and if i tried "negatives" with 525 the weight would drive me into the floor given my shoulders would not pop first.  when i do negatives, and i do them very rarely, i use 105 or 110 percent of my max.

[webcake]

When i tried negatives on bench i was training with 2 mates so they stod either side of the bar, so i was going kinda heavy and was doing like the 3rd rep and as i was lowering it down i slowed right down yet was still going lower, but my mate thought i was finished, so he grabbed the left side of the bar and pulled it up, which transferred all the weight to my right side.

Luckily my mate to my right had good reaction time and prevented me from getting crushed. I thought i had torn my right pec though. Was killing me for days. And now i've got a bit of an indent on my inner right pec.....

[Hedgehog]

The recommended weight to use for eccentric training is generally 110-140% of your 1RM.

Also, contrary to what wes and others writes in this thread, I am of the opinion that eccentric training is very safe.

Most injuries actually happens during the concentric phase of a lift.

The only problem, IMO, with eccentrics are that they are very taxing and should be used sparingly.


Three sets of three reps in the middle of a benchpress workout (start off with regular benchpress, then the eccentrics, and finish off with a few sets of close grips perhaps)

Either use eccentrics for 2-3 weeks in a row and then do 6-8 weeks of regular benchpressing with no eccentrics.

Or try do eccentrics every second or third week.

When doing the the eccentrics, you need at least one very strong spotter, preferably three.

The guy who spots you from behind should keep his hand near the bar the whole time, and be prepared to give you a little assistance in the lowering portion in weak parts in the 2nd and 3rd rep especially.

He also needs to pull the bar as hard as possible once it's down.

It's not supposed to be some kind of eccentric/"lift as hard as you can-concentric". Ideally, you should only be guiding the bar on the way up.

That is only possible if you have three spotters.

[JasonH]

I fail to understand why on earth negatives would work for bodybuilding purposes (or even strength training purposes for that matter).

The muscle is stimulated only through the concentric range and determining how stimulated it gets is determined by how many muscle fibres are recruited to perform the concentric action. This is why half reps are not effective either - you need to recruit as much muscle fibres as possible to stimulate the muscle to its fullest. No amount of weight will help you on the eccentric portion of the rep and nobody ever got bigger or stronger by performing negative reps with a spotter. You don't see WSM competitiors doing negatives in the gym to help with their strength - why would it help anyone elses?

[Zach Trowbridge]

I fail to understand why on earth negatives would work for bodybuilding purposes (or even strength training purposes for that matter).

The muscle is stimulated only through the concentric range and determining how stimulated it gets is determined by how many muscle fibres are recruited to perform the concentric action. This is why half reps are not effective either - you need to recruit as much muscle fibres as possible to stimulate the muscle to its fullest. No amount of weight will help you on the eccentric portion of the rep and nobody ever got bigger or stronger by performing negative reps with a spotter. You don't see WSM competitiors doing negatives in the gym to help with their strength - why would it help anyone elses?

The eccentric stage of the rep is where most of the muscular damage occurs.  For example, if you've ever had a chance to try sled dragging you will almost never get very sore from it because the eccentric portion of the rep is non-existent, and you can do pretty much anything upper body - chest presses, rows, raises, etc. 

However, 150% of your 1RM is completely fucking retarded.  In fact, IMO unless your technique is absolutely FLAWLESS with 100% of your max, you're going to kill yourself doing heavier negatives all by themselves.  Think about it - usually when you see guys do a 1RM attempt things get a little bit iffy - definitely not perfect.  Now add an extra hundred pounds or more to the descent and see if you survive.  I wouldn't go more than 10-15% over your regular weights for negative only sets, do 1-3 negatives, and don't do it again for 2 months.  At least.  IMO.

[jpm101]

Agree with Hedgehog on just about all points. Can also apply negatives/eccentrics to short ROM's (partial reps in a set pin power rack for example), which are very effective for power.  Some favorable results are when N/E's are done in the beginning of a serious workout, though most lifters will do them as the last part of a specific workout. If preformed first the usually weight used can feel very light indeed. N/E's are a version of the overload system.

The lowering of the bar should be slower and in complete control of the lifter at all times. If it is not than too much weight is being handled. That is the cause of injury, mostly directed to ligaments,joints and tendons, not so much the muscles themselves. Rep's can be  broad range with this style of training.  Have seen, and used, anywhere from 2 to 12 or even more. Sets usually 2 at the most. 3 to the extreme, if you think your CNS can adapt to it. Actually one good  set can accomplish much in the way of increased strength and is probably what most lifters can gain from. Also keep the positive phase of the exercise to a minimum if doing N/E in the same workout.

N/E's are well suited for chins/pull-ups if a person is generally weak in that exercise. Stand on a bench and  lower the body slowly to the full bottom stretch. Try for higher reps. Going to gain strength rather quickly. When added 50- to 80 weight to the negatives, after a while, you regular chin should shoot up. And very impressive at that.

Might also consider one hand negatives in a chinning program. Affective for most who try it that way. Even just holding the top position for 10 to 20 seconds (static) builds strength. Good Luck.

[wes]

The recommended weight to use for eccentric training is generally 110-140% of your 1RM.

Also, contrary to what wes and others writes in this thread, I am of the opinion that eccentric training is very safe.

Most injuries actually happens during the concentric phase of a lift.

The only problem, IMO, with eccentrics are that they are very taxing and should be used sparingly.


Three sets of three reps in the middle of a benchpress workout (start off with regular benchpress, then the eccentrics, and finish off with a few sets of close grips perhaps)

Either use eccentrics for 2-3 weeks in a row and then do 6-8 weeks of regular benchpressing with no eccentrics.

Or try do eccentrics every second or third week.

When doing the the eccentrics, you need at least one very strong spotter, preferably three.

The guy who spots you from behind should keep his hand near the bar the whole time, and be prepared to give you a little assistance in the lowering portion in weak parts in the 2nd and 3rd rep especially.

He also needs to pull the bar as hard as possible once it's down.

It's not supposed to be some kind of eccentric/"lift as hard as you can-concentric". Ideally, you should only be guiding the bar on the way up.

That is only possible if you have three spotters.

Zack,I think negatives are great,but the original poster sure doesn`t sound advanced enough to use them,sounds more like he really just needs to do more benches.

Pretty advanced technique........builds a lot of power simply because everyone can definately lower more weight than they can raise or lift,just a bit advaned for a novice trainer and almost always not necessary in the early stages of training.

Connective tissue must be strong or injury is likely,and most novices would more than likely get hurt.

I do beleive that partials from different positions in a power rack are far superior because if you are weak getting the bar off the chest,you work low, and it`ll help build explosive power,and if your lockout sux,just work partials in the top position, and this applies to anywhere in between where your sticking point happens to be at any time.

[tbombz]

good post hedge... i think 150% is okay... i can definitely get 150% of my guesstimated one rep max for a few reps .. but i never try out one rep max so maybe i just think i can get 150% and maybe my max is higher than i think it is..

[mesmorph78]

doing dumbell presses wil increase your bench poundages...
also dont just shoot to be a strong bencher .. try to be strong at everything

[MisterMagoo]

load up 150% of your maximum bench press. (so if you bench 100 then load up 150. if you bench 200 then load up 300.)   then have somebody spot you, make sure they are stong enough to lift the wight, then you slowly lower the bar to your chest, then the spotter lifts the bar back up for you,, then you lower the bar again. you only doing half the rep, the "eccentric portion" ( the protion of the lift in which you lower the weight)

150% might work for EXTREME beginners, but it's absolutely idiotic once you get any decent strength. a 225 bencher shouldn't be putting himself under 340 unlss he hates his joints, and i would kill myself if i got under 565. 110% is a more reasonable number. a 200 bencher getting under 300? are you for real?

[MisterMagoo]

good post hedge... i think 150% is okay... i can definitely get 150% of my guesstimated one rep max for a few reps .. but i never try out one rep max so maybe i just think i can get 150% and maybe my max is higher than i think it is..

also, you don't "get" any reps on negatives. strictly speaking you can do negatives with 150% of your max for 20 reps as long as your spotter holds out. it's impossible to "fail" when you're doing negatives.

[tbombz]

magoo i dont think its dangerou if the person is an experienced lifter.

thats a good point you made about it being tought to fail on negatives regardless of weight. (yes it is impossible,,, except eventually youll probably let the bar crush your ches or throat by dropping it so fast hahah)

[wes]

You fail by going too heavy..............bar just falls and you have no control over it.

Much like what would happen using your 150 % of your max suggestion Taylor!! 

[tbombz]

You fail by going too heavy..............bar just falls and you have no control over it.

Much like what would happen using your 150 % of your max suggestion Taylor!! 

well i estimate my max at about 335 or so, maybe more if i didnt care about using shoulders and triceps, i think i would be able to do 500 (5 plates a side)... but im not saying that anybody should try to lift any more weight than they are comfortable lifting

nobody should lift a weight that they dont feel safe lifting or that they are "scared of. thats setting ones self up for injury.

[Zach Trowbridge]

well i estimate my max at about 335 or so, maybe more if i didnt care about using shoulders and triceps, i think i would be able to do 500 (5 plates a side)

You've got to be fucking kidding me.