Author Topic: Why do so many people believe that the USA was founded on Christian principles?  (Read 5855 times)

Deicide

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No one's trying to "Christianize" those former presidents. Those are their own words.

You were quick to use their quote to claim that they didn't believe in God. But, when faced with statements to the contrary from those same men (and others) you come up with this lame excuse.

No one claimed that they were perfect (their shortcomings and ill deeds are well-documented). But the issue here is that they believe and it was their intent to form this nation upon Christian priniciples, far contrary to Deicide's factually-bankrupt claims.



They were deists in the sense that they believed in a first cause; most rejected all the miracles and other fiction found in the Bible, Thomas Jefferson likening it to Greek mythology. Without the miracles there isn't much left to Christianity except a much of some 'moral' contradictions. You jump the gun. I never said they didn't believe in a god, just not the Christian one. Thomas Paine, who was a large contributor to the foundations of the USA called the god of the Bible, a barbarian and tyrant. As far as factually bankrupt claims are concerned, you are the king, since even Loco is willing to admit he believes the claims of the Bible on faith and not fact, yet you claim the miracles are historical 'facts', laughable, no wonder the founders rejected such utter nonsense.
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Deicide

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Actually, though at some point in his life he rejected Jesus' divinity and miracles, Thomas Jefferson was always a great admirer of Jesus, Jesus' life and teachings.  Thomas Jefferson went as far as to write his own version of the Gospels which simply took the four Biblical gospels and then took out all of Jesus' miracles and claims to divinity, but kept everything else about Jesus' life and teachings.  He even said that he admired Christianity's moral teachings and that, in that sense at least, he himself was a Christian.

Well, without the miracles, you really don't have Christianity anymore, do you?
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George Whorewell

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This is another idiotic thread where the brainwashed fanatics toss the facts straight out the window. McWay has it right, as usual.

Most of the people who founded this country were Christian. If you want to break the definition of "Christian" into semantics be my guest. Nobody is arguing that this country was founded by fundamentalist christians ala George W Bush. But the fact of the matter is that they were Christians nonetheless. Even if you want to really nitpick, the bottom line is that all of them believed in god or some sort of higher power. No atheists period and certainly no Muslims.  

That's good enough for me.

PS- What Christian principles do you maintain are not the basis of this countries foundation? The tenets of christianity and all major religions follow a similar moral code which permeates every civilized country on earth ( except the muslim ones). I fail to see your point ( or anyone elses) on this topic.

George Whorewell

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The vast majority of the founders were Athiests... Benjamin Franklin, Washington, Jefferson to name a few... Religion shoudlnt be involved in any part of government... Its fake, a fraud, a lie and cause more probs than anything else in the world..

Busted obviously learned how to read and write at the same school that taught Jaguar about Canada's resounding victory over the US in the war of 1812 and taught Slapper his Kung Fu theory on military technology.

Deicide

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This is another idiotic thread where the brainwashed fanatics toss the facts straight out the window. McWay has it right, as usual.

Most of the people who founded this country were Christian. If you want to break the definition of "Christian" into semantics be my guest. Nobody is arguing that this country was founded by fundamentalist christians ala George W Bush. But the fact of the matter is that they were Christians nonetheless. Even if you want to really nitpick, the bottom line is that all of them believed in god or some sort of higher power. No atheists period and certainly no Muslims.  

That's good enough for me.

PS- What Christian principles do you maintain are not the basis of this countries foundation? The tenets of christianity and all major religions follow a similar moral code which permeates every civilized country on earth ( except the muslim ones). I fail to see your point ( or anyone elses) on this topic.

Deism is a far cry from Christianity.
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MCWAY

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They were deists in the sense that they believed in a first cause; most rejected all the miracles and other fiction found in the Bible, Thomas Jefferson likening it to Greek mythology. Without the miracles there isn't much left to Christianity except a much of some 'moral' contradictions. You jump the gun. I never said they didn't believe in a god, just not the Christian one. Thomas Paine, who was a large contributor to the foundations of the USA called the god of the Bible, a barbarian and tyrant. As far as factually bankrupt claims are concerned, you are the king, since even Loco is willing to admit he believes the claims of the Bible on faith and not fact, yet you claim the miracles are historical 'facts', laughable, no wonder the founders rejected such utter nonsense.

I have Paine's quote listed front and center. He talks about the Creator. Take a wild guess as to whom he's referring.

Furthermore, the Founding Fathers, INCLUDING JEFFERSON, state the Deity to whom they make reference, IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. Apparently, you missed that in your usual flappings.

If that weren't silly enough, Loco has hardly stated the he believes the claims of the Bible just on faith and not on fact. Inf act, he has repeatedly reminded you (and others) of the numerous claims, made by past atheists and skeptics, that have been shot to pieces once the historical and archaeological data have come to the surface.

Back to the Founding Fathers, they believed in the miracles, as well. A prime example would be one John Quincy Adams. Per the statement I posted from him, he believed that the independence of this nation was so great that its observation was (July 4th) the greatest holiday on Earth, with the SOLE EXECPTION OF "the birthday of the Savior of the world".

The words of the Founders are right here, in black and white, and they repeatedly refute the utter buffoonery you continue to dribble from your lips.

MCWAY

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The vast majority of the founders were Athiests... Benjamin Franklin, Washington, Jefferson to name a few... Religion shoudlnt be involved in any part of government... Its fake, a fraud, a lie and cause more probs than anything else in the world..

You mean THIS Benjamin Franklin?

God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”

THIS Thomas Jefferson?

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."


And THIS George Washington?

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”


And they’re atheists?  ::)

I’m sorry! What manner of crack are you smoking today? Not only were the Founding Fathers NOT atheists, but I do recall listing the breakdown of the denominations to which these men were affiliated (these would be the men who signed the Declaration of Independence AND the Constitution).
 

Deicide

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Quote
I have Paine's quote listed front and center. He talks about the Creator. Take a wild guess as to whom he's referring.

All rhetoric and angry language with little to back it up. Thomas Paine is referring to the Deist creator, not the Christian one.

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The opinions I have advanced . . . are the effect of the most clear and long-established conviction that the Bible and the Testament are impositions upon the world, that the fall of man, the account of Jesus Christ being the Son of God, and of his dying to appease the wrath of God, and of salvation, by that strange means, are all fabulous inventions, dishonorable to the wisdom and power of the Almighty; that the only true religion is Deism, by which I then meant, and mean now, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues – and that it was upon this only (so far as religion is concerned) that I rested all my hopes of happiness hereafter. So say I now – and so help me God.
-Thomas Paine, Age of Reason

The Bible represents God with all the passions of a mortal, and the Creation proclaims him with all the attributes of a God.It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (i Sam. xv. 3,) "Now go and smite Amaleck, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."That Samuel or some other impostor might say this, is what, at this distance of time, can neither be proved nor disproved, but in my opinion it is blasphemy to say, or to believe, that God said it. All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.
-Thomas Paine, Response to a Christian Friend

Not a Christian, right in your face MCWAY. The only true religion is deism? Doesn't sound like Christianity to me. Sounds like he thinks Christianity is bullshit. He was a deist, not a Christian.

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Furthermore, the Founding Fathers, INCLUDING JEFFERSON, state the Deity to whom they make reference, IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. Apparently, you missed that in your usual flappings.

Really? They call the Deity Jesus Christ? Jefferson did NOT believe in miracles, which is tantamount to a rejection of Christianity.

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...that the Christianity of the churches was unreasonable, therefore unbelievable, but that stripped of priestly mystery, ritual, and dogma, reinterpreted in the light of historical evidence and human experience, and substituting the Newtonian cosmology for the discredited Biblical one, Christianity could be conformed to reason. Second, morality required no divine sanction or inspiration, no appeal beyond reason and nature, perhaps not even the hope of heaven or the fear of hell; and so the whole edifice of Christian revelation came tumbling to the ground.
-Merrill D. Peterson, Biographer of Thomas Jefferson

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In summary, then, Jefferson was a deist because he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, and in rewards and punishments after death; but did not believe in supernatural revelation. He was a Christian deist because he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God. Jefferson's religion is fairly typical of the American form of deism in his day.
-Avery Dulles, Laurence J. McGinley Professor of Religion and Society at Fordham University

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Fix Reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded fear. ... Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you. -- (Jefferson's Works, Vol. ii., p. 217)

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.
Letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp (30 July 1816), denouncing the doctrine of the Trinity


Once again, not a Christian, having firmly rejected miracles.

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If that weren't silly enough, Loco has hardly stated the he believes the claims of the Bible just on faith and not on fact. Inf act, he has repeatedly reminded you (and others) of the numerous claims, made by past atheists and skeptics, that have been shot to pieces once the historical and archaeological data have come to the surface.

We can ask Loco if his Christianity is founded on faith or fact. I think you will be disappointed.

Quote
Back to the Founding Fathers, they believed in the miracles, as well. A prime example would be one John Quincy Adams. Per the statement I posted from him, he believed that the independence of this nation was so great that its observation was (July 4th) the greatest holiday on Earth, with the SOLE EXECPTION OF "the birthday of the Savior of the world".

The words of the Founders are right here, in black and white, and they repeatedly refute the utter buffoonery you continue to dribble from your lips.


The founders believed in miracles? Why did Jefferson edit out all the miracles in the NT? You suffer from all the typical self-righteousness of most Christians in your inability to concede being wrong, in even the slightest.

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" As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion ...."


Article 11, Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary.
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed?"


Letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
" Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism, which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews, and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents, wave succeeding wave in the Catholic church, from the Council of Nice, and long before, to this day."

To Jefferson, Dec. 3, 1813
-John Adams

Does that sound like they believed in miracles? There might have been a small handful, but the vast majority of them were affirmed deists, which is NOT the same as being a Christian.
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Straw Man

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It's weird how all those alleged Christians left God and Jesus out of the Constitution and the Presidential oath is not made to Jesus and no bible is required during the oath.

You'd think one of those devote christians would have caught something like that.

This quote from Jefferson is a classic example of how he really looked at Jesus.  He didn't view Jesus as a God but rather as a sort of philosopher.  Jefferson's "real christian" is nothing like the wack jobs of his day or ours

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

Dos Equis

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I knew loco and McWay would lay the smack down in this thread.   :D

Deicide

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I knew loco and McWay would lay the smack down in this thread.   :D

The smack down? are you drunk? I just showed firm evidence that most of the founders were deists.
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James

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I knew loco and McWay would lay the smack down in this thread. 

QFT

Deicide

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QFT

Wow, most of the founders thought miracles were bunk and other garbage and that Jesus was not divine and you don't get that...
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MCWAY

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All rhetoric and angry language with little to back it up. Thomas Paine is referring to the Deist creator, not the Christian one.

They are one and the same.

Not a Christian, right in your face MCWAY. The only true religion is deism? Doesn't sound like Christianity to me. Sounds like he thinks Christianity is bullshit. He was a deist, not a Christian.

Really? They call the Deity Jesus Christ? Jefferson did NOT believe in miracles, which is tantamount to a rejection of Christianity.

Yes, they did. Both John and John Quincy Adams did, the latter referring to the birth of Christ as the only holiday that should be more signficiant that the 4th of July. Same goes for John Hancock, Alexandar Hamilton and others.

As for Jefferson's being a deist, the mere fact that he believes in a Creator shoots down your ENTIRE premise of America supposedly being a secular nation, or Busted's warped take that Jefferson and others were atheists. They believed in a DEITY, which disqualifies them from being atheists.

With many other Founding Fathers believing in Jesus Christ as Lord (the point I made long ago, which is why you continue to harp on Jefferson), my point still stands.
 




We can ask Loco if his Christianity is founded on faith or fact. I think you will be disappointed.

There is no either/or. His Christianity is founded on BOTH, as Loco will tell you, himself.
 
The founders believed in miracles? Why did Jefferson edit out all the miracles in the NT? You suffer from all the typical self-righteousness of most Christians in your inability to concede being wrong, in even the slightest.

You suffer from the simple inability to comprehend, at times. The key word: FOUNDERS, as in there are others BESIDES Jefferson, many of whom were Christians, as I've clearly stated using their words.

Does that sound like they believed in miracles? There might have been a small handful, but the vast majority of them were affirmed deists, which is NOT the same as being a Christian.

Once again, I've listed those men in black-and-white, and the denominations to which they're affiliated (and that's just the short list). But, if you want to continue with your futile attempts at revisionist history, knock yourself out.

24KT

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The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians!!!   >:(


The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.

******************

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." 1

******************

George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washington uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance. 2

******************

John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievements' but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." 3

******************

Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained." 4

******************

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." 5

******************

Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature." 6

******************

Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." 7 He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.


******************

The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1 The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

2 George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)

3 The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.

4 Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

5 The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.

6 Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)

7 Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1970.


Edit: This is the 2nd time on these boards that I have soundly debunked the lie propagated by Christians.
Hopefully, no mods with Christian biases will choose to censor the truth like they did the last time.
w

24KT

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They are one and the same.

Perhaps to you, ...but that is irrelevant. The question is, were they the same to him? Clearly they were not!
w

MCWAY

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The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians!!!   >:(

Tell that to these men:



Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence

 
Name of Signer---------State-------------Religious Affiliation

Charles Carroll-------Maryland---------Catholic
Samuel Huntington-------- Connecticut---------- Congregationalist
Roger Sherman--------- Connecticut--------- Congregationalist
William Williams----------- Connecticut----------- Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott -----------Connecticut----------- Congregationalist
Lyman Hall------------  Georgia------------  Congregationalist
Samuel Adams------------  Massachusetts------------  Congregationalist
John Hancock------------  Massachusetts------------  Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett------------  New Hampshire------------  Congregationalist
William Whipple ------------ New Hampshire------------  Congregationalist
William Ellery------------  Rhode Island------------  Congregationalist
John Adams------------  Massachusett------------ s Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine------------  Massachusett------------ s Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton------------  Georgia------------  Episcopalian
John Penn------------  North Carolina------------  Episcopalian
George Ross------------  Pennsylvania------------  Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr.------------  South Carolina------------  Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr.------------  South Carolina------------  Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton------------  South Carolina------------  Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge------------  South Carolina------------  Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee------------  Virginia------------  Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee------------  Virginia------------  Episcopalian
George Read------------  Delaware------------  Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney------------  Delaware------------  Episcopalian
Samuel Chase------------  Maryland------------  Episcopalian
William Paca------------  Maryland------------  Episcopalian
Thomas Stone ------------ Maryland------------  Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry------------  Massachusetts------------  Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson ------------ New Jersey------------  Episcopalian
Francis Lewis ------------ New York------------  Episcopalian
Lewis Morris------------  New York------------  Episcopalian
William Hooper----------- North Carolina----------- Episcopalian
Robert Morris----------- Pennsylvania----------- Episcopalian
John Morton----------- Pennsylvania----------- Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins----------- Rhode Island----------- Episcopalian
Carter Braxton----------- Virginia----------- Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison----------- Virginia----------- Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr.----------- Virginia----------- Episcopalian
George Wythe----------- Virginia----------- Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson----------- Virginia----------- Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin----------- Pennsylvania----------- Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett----------- Georgia----------- Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson----------- Pennsylvania -----------Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes-----------North Carolina------------ Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer----------- Pennsylvania------------- Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean------------ Delaware----------- Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton-------------- New Hampshire----------- Presbyterian
Abraham Clark------------ New Jersey------------ Presbyterian
John Hart------------- New Jersey------------ Presbyterian
Richard Stockton---------- New Jersey------------- Presbyterian
John Witherspoon------------- New Jersey----------- Presbyterian
William Floyd---------- New York-------------- Presbyterian
Philip Livingston------------ New York------------ Presbyterian
James Smith---------- Pennsylvania---------- Presbyterian
George Taylor---------- Pennsylvania---------- Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush---------- Pennsylvania--------- Presbyterian[/u]
 
And there's plenty more from which that came. Check the men who signed the Constitution.


The men who signed the Constitution broke down something like this:


Religious Affiliation-----------# of delegates---------% of delegates

Episcopalian/Anglican---------- 31---------- 56.4%
Presbyterian----------    16 ----------29.1%
Congregationalist----------    8---------- 14.5%
Quaker ----------3---------- 5.5%
Catholic ----------2 ----------3.6%
Methodist---------- 2--------- 3.6%
Lutheran ----------2---------- 3.6%
Dutch Reformed---------- 2---------- 3.6%

TOTAL    55    100%


You can go to the site on the previous page to get the name-by-name and state-by-state listing.




The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.

No one is trying to re-write anything. This is merely setting the record straight, refuting such ridiculous claims, like those of Deicide, claiming that this nation was designed to be a secular (read godless) nation. That is simply not the case.



The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.

But, it's been on our coins since 1864, beginning with the 2-cent coins.

The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.

The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.


http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml



Edit: This is the 2nd time on these boards that I have soundly debunked the lie propagated by Christians.
Hopefully, no mods with Christian biases will choose to censor the truth like they did the last time.

You have debunked nothing of the sort. The last time I checked, the Founding Fathers consisted of more than Jefferson, Paine, Washington, and the other men you listed, notwithstanding the fact that I've already posted their statements earlier.

As for the "In God We Trust", that's been part of our nation's history for nearly 200 years. In fact, the phrase is in our national anthem (3rd verse).

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto:  "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!




MCWAY

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Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." 7 He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.

Would this be the same Benjamin Franklin who uttered,

History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion, from its usefullness to the public; the advantage of religious character among private persons, the mischiefs of superstition, etc., and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." - from "The Works of Benjamin Franklin"






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It's odd how all these devout Christians left God and Jesus out of the constitution Article Six even states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Also no requirement to swear on the Bible for the President - you'd think at the very least they would make that a requirement.


 

24KT

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Tell that to these men:

Sorry, I don't talk to dead people.... but since you have a tradition of doing so... why don't you ask them yourself?
You could even call Haley Joel Osment. {whispering} He see's dead people.  :o


Quote
No one is trying to re-write anything. This is merely setting the record straight, refuting such ridiculous claims, like those of Deicide, claiming that this nation was designed to be a secular (read godless) nation. That is simply not the case.

Secular does not mean Godless. It simply means both freedom OF & FROM religion.
Choice, ya know... like it says in the bible.


Quote
But, it's been on our coins since 1864, beginning with the 2-cent coins.

The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.

The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.
[/b][/glow]

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

I make the simple factual statement that: The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria. and you write some long boring diatribe CONFIRMING my statement, putting it forth in an effort to refute the facts? What kind of drugs are you on ???

...or do you simply not understand the definition of the words ALL or 'CONSISTENTLY' ???

Quote
You have debunked nothing of the sort. The last time I checked, the Founding Fathers consisted of more than Jefferson, Paine, Washington, and the other men you listed, notwithstanding the fact that I've already posted their statements earlier.

In a previous post in the thread "God Hates Fags", I went through ALL the founding fathers... not just Jefferson, Paine, and Washington, ...but a mod on General found it necessary to quietly delete the post for some unknown reason, although they chose to leave the thread intact.

Quote
As for the "In God We Trust", that's been part of our nation's history for nearly 200 years. In fact, the phrase is in our national anthem (3rd verse).

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto:  "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


You mean the national anthem that didn't even become your national anthem until well into the 20th century?
Despite the fact that your nation was founded in the 18th century? Do you mean that national anthem?
w

loco

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Look at this sculpture at the top of the Supreme Court building in Washington DC. 

Who is that in the middle, larger than the others, appearing in a dominant position, with special emphasis, holding the two tablets?

That is Moses holding The Ten Commandments, sitting in a dominant position between the two "other lawgivers", Confucius and Solon.   :)

The True Adonis

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Hope this Helps.

Official records show that after President John Adams sent the treaty to the Senate for ratification in May 1797, the entire treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, and copies were printed for every Senator. A committee considered the treaty and recommended ratification, 23 of the 32 sitting Senators were present for the June 7 vote which unanimously approved the ratification recommendation.




Article 11 reads:
Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.



loco

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Samuel Adams

Rights of the Colonists, 1772:
The rights of the colonists as Christians … may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Lawgiver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.…

"Just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty," in matters spiritual and temporal, is a thing that all men are clearly entitled to by the eternal and immutable laws of God and nature, as well as by the law of nations and all well-grounded municipal laws, which must have their foundation in the former.…

"American Independence" Speech, 1 August 1776:
Our forefathers … opened the Bible to all, and maintained the capacity of every man to judge for himself in religion. Are we sufficient for the comprehension of the sublimest spiritual truths, and unequal to material and temporal ones? We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom alone men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and with a propitious eye beholds his subjects assuming that freedom of thought and dignity of self-direction which he bestowed on them. From the rising to the setting sun, may his kingdom come!

Letter to John Adams, 4 October 1790:
Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and universal philanthropy, and, in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country; of instructing them in the art of self-government without which they never can act a wise part in the government of societies, great or small; in short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.

loco

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Patrick Henry

A written statement on the back of Henry's Stamp Act Resolves:
     This [the Stamp Act] brought on the war which finally separated the two countries and gave independence to ours. Whether this will prove a blessing or a curse, will depend upon the use or people make of the blessings, which a gracious God hath bestowed on us.
     If they are wise, they will be great and happy. If they are of a contrary character, they will be miserable.
     Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this, and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself, and encourage it in others.
 
Speech of March 23, 1775:
     Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of the means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people,  armed in the Holy cause of Liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us.
     Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battle for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.…
     Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 
Letter to his daughter, Betsy, 20 August 1796:
     Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of the number; and indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long, and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.
 
Patrick Henry's Will:
     This is all the inheritance I give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will give them one which will make them rich indeed.

The True Adonis

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loco=wrong=quote mining schmuck