Author Topic: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution  (Read 29655 times)

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2009, 01:38:30 PM »
OK, then why don't you accept that humans, chimps and gorillas also share a common ancestor?

Because tigers and lions sharing a common felinae-like ancestor, or wolfs and dogs sharing a common canidae-like ancestor, or chimps and gorillas sharing a common ape-like ancestor is not evolutionary change above the level of species, or biological family.  That I accept.

But I do not accept that humans are apes, or that humans are animals, for two reasons:

1. I accept the Bible creation account by faith.  God created us humans in His own likeness.

2. There is no evidence that humans are apes, that humans are animals, or that we humans share a common ancestor with animals.  Animals do not have reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour.

At this point, it would take me as much faith to accept #2 as it would take me to accept #1.

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2009, 01:46:28 PM »
Because tigers and lions sharing a common felinae-like ancestor, or wolfs and dogs sharing a common canidae-like ancestor, or chimps and gorillas sharing a common ape-like ancestor is not evolutionary change above the level of species, or biological family.  That I accept.

But I do not accept that humans are apes, or that humans are animals, for two reasons:

1. I accept the Bible creation account by faith.  God created us humans in His own likeness.

2. There is no evidence that humans are apes, that humans are animals, or that we humans share a common ancestor with animals.  Animals do not have reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour.

At this point, it would take me as much faith to accept #2 as it would take me to accept #1.

Way to ignore the mass of other pieces of evidence that show that we are animals and apes. Is it a mere coincidence that our DNA is so similar to that of a chimp's?
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loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2009, 01:54:56 PM »
Way to ignore the mass of other pieces of evidence that show that we are animals and apes. Is it a mere coincidence that our DNA is so similar to that of a chimp's?

Is that your evidence?  No, not a mere coincidence.  Our DNA is similar because we share a common designer and creator.

Besides, we are physically similar.  So it makes sense that our DNA would be similar too when it comes to our structure.  Similar buildings have similar blue-prints.  Similar bridges have similar blue-prints.

Another thing is that there is much we still don't know about DNA.  So we may soon find that human DNA and chimp DNA are not so similar after all.

If human and chimp DNA are so similar, why are there so many physical and mental differences between them?

"When studying the human genome and its similarity to that of the chimp, scientists have recently concluded that 96% of our genome is similar. However, most people are unaware that this percent pertains to the regions of our DNA that result in proteins. It seems logical that if a protein performs a certain function in one organism, then that same protein should perform the same function in a variety of organisms. This is evidence for a common designer as much as for a common ancestor. But most of the DNA sequence performs an unknown function and has been largely dismissed as “junk DNA.” However, increasing evidence supports the view that “junk” DNA performs an important role. For example, a recent report unexpectedly found specific sequence patterns in “junk” DNA which scientists have termed “pyknons.”1 It has been suggested that these pyknons may be important in determining when and where proteins are made.

Within this “junk DNA” there may be large differences between man and chimp. The areas of greatest difference appear to involve regions which are structurally different (commonly called “rearrangements”) and areas of heterochromatin (tightly packed DNA).

Here are some other interesting differences between the human and chimp genomes which are often not reported:

- The amount of chimp DNA is 12% larger than what it is in humans.

- Several hundred million bases (individual components of the DNA) of the chimp genome are still unanalyzed.

- In many areas of the DNA sequence, major “rearrangements” seem apparent. These account for perhaps 4–10% dissimilarity between chimps and humans.

- Chimps have 23 chromosomes and humans have only 22 (excluding sex chromosomes for both species).

Thus, the physical and mental differences between humans and chimps are most likely due to the differences in purpose and function of the so-called junk DNA. This understanding should leave us more mindful of the awesome complexity of the Creator and His creation of DNA.

Dr. Georgia Purdom earned her doctorate from The Ohio State University in molecular genetics and spent six years as a professor of biology at Mt. Vernon Nazarene University. Dr. Purdom is also a member of the American Society for Microbiology and American Society for Cell Biology."

Footnotes:

1. Rigoutsos, Isidore, et al., Short blocks from the noncoding parts of the human genome have instances within nearly all known genes and relate to biological processes, PNAS 103(17):6605–10.


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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2009, 02:06:12 PM »
Is that your evidence?  No, not a mere coincidence.  Our DNA is similar because we share a common designer and creator.

Besides, we are physically similar.  So it makes sense that our DNA would be similar too when it comes to our structure.  Similar buildings have similar blue-prints.  Similar bridges have similar blue-prints.

Another thing is that there is much we still don't know about DNA.  So we may soon find that human DNA and chimp DNA are not so similar after all.

If human and chimp DNA are so similar, why are there so many physical and mental differences between them?

"When studying the human genome and its similarity to that of the chimp, scientists have recently concluded that 96% of our genome is similar. However, most people are unaware that this percent pertains to the regions of our DNA that result in proteins. It seems logical that if a protein performs a certain function in one organism, then that same protein should perform the same function in a variety of organisms. This is evidence for a common designer as much as for a common ancestor. But most of the DNA sequence performs an unknown function and has been largely dismissed as “junk DNA.” However, increasing evidence supports the view that “junk” DNA performs an important role. For example, a recent report unexpectedly found specific sequence patterns in “junk” DNA which scientists have termed “pyknons.”1 It has been suggested that these pyknons may be important in determining when and where proteins are made.

Within this “junk DNA” there may be large differences between man and chimp. The areas of greatest difference appear to involve regions which are structurally different (commonly called “rearrangements”) and areas of heterochromatin (tightly packed DNA).

Here are some other interesting differences between the human and chimp genomes which are often not reported:

- The amount of chimp DNA is 12% larger than what it is in humans.

- Several hundred million bases (individual components of the DNA) of the chimp genome are still unanalyzed.

- In many areas of the DNA sequence, major “rearrangements” seem apparent. These account for perhaps 4–10% dissimilarity between chimps and humans.

- Chimps have 23 chromosomes and humans have only 22 (excluding sex chromosomes for both species).

Thus, the physical and mental differences between humans and chimps are most likely due to the differences in purpose and function of the so-called junk DNA. This understanding should leave us more mindful of the awesome complexity of the Creator and His creation of DNA.

Dr. Georgia Purdom earned her doctorate from The Ohio State University in molecular genetics and spent six years as a professor of biology at Mt. Vernon Nazarene University. Dr. Purdom is also a member of the American Society for Microbiology and American Society for Cell Biology."

Footnotes:

1. Rigoutsos, Isidore, et al., Short blocks from the noncoding parts of the human genome have instances within nearly all known genes and relate to biological processes, PNAS 103(17):6605–10.



Does this study conclude that the creation myth found in the Bible is the logical conclusion for differences? We separated from a common ancestor over 6 million years ago, of course there will be differences.

Are all these top scientists throughout the world in the best of universities and institutions merely deceiving themselves? Should they be concluding that that Genesis is the true origin of all life?
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loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2009, 07:17:11 PM »
Does this study conclude that the creation myth found in the Bible is the logical conclusion for differences? We separated from a common ancestor over 6 million years ago, of course there will be differences.

Are all these top scientists throughout the world in the best of universities and institutions merely deceiving themselves? Should they be concluding that that Genesis is the true origin of all life?

Not the conclusion necessarily, and not the point.  The fact still remains that there is no proof that humans are apes, that humans are animals, or that we humans share a common ancestor with animals.  Again, animals do not have reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour.

The fact still remains that at this point, it would take me as much faith to accept the above as it takes me to believe in God.

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2009, 02:03:03 AM »
Not the conclusion necessarily, and not the point.  The fact still remains that there is no proof that humans are apes, that humans are animals, or that we humans share a common ancestor with animals.  Again, animals do not have reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour.

The fact still remains that at this point, it would take me as much faith to accept the above as it takes me to believe in God.

So what are all these scientists doing then? Wasting their time? Should they just be consulting the Bible?
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loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2009, 05:00:11 AM »
So what are all these scientists doing then? Wasting their time? Should they just be consulting the Bible?

Studying DNA is definitely not a waste of time, but jumping to conclusions and saying that similarities in tested portions of human and chimp DNA is definite proof that humans are animals and that humans share a common ancestor with chimps is stretching it.

If their agenda is nothing but science and discovery, then no, they are not wasting their time.  But since some of them say their agenda is "to kill religion", then they are wasting their time.  Richard Dawkins has said that his goal for teaching evolution is "to kill religion."  He has also said that as a scientist, he is very hostile toward a "rival doctrine."

There is also a lot of money involved here.  Whether this new found fossil is "the missing link" or not, there is lots of money to be made here.

And since when is truth a democracy?

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2009, 08:55:19 PM »
Studying DNA is definitely not a waste of time, but jumping to conclusions and saying that similarities in tested portions of human and chimp DNA is definite proof that humans are animals and that humans share a common ancestor with chimps is stretching it.

If their agenda is nothing but science and discovery, then no, they are not wasting their time.  But since some of them say their agenda is "to kill religion", then they are wasting their time.  Richard Dawkins has said that his goal for teaching evolution is "to kill religion."  He has also said that as a scientist, he is very hostile toward a "rival doctrine."

There is also a lot of money involved here.  Whether this new found fossil is "the missing link" or not, there is lots of money to be made here.

And since when is truth a democracy?

why did the designer do such a bad job on us?

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2009, 06:21:46 AM »
why did the designer do such a bad job on us?

What do you mean?

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2009, 06:39:12 AM »
What do you mean?

STUPID DESIGN

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tonymctones

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2009, 07:11:24 AM »
2. HUH?

"With her human-like nails instead of claws, and opposable big toes, she is placed at the very root of human evolution when early primates first developed features that would eventually develop into our own."



3. Lucy is absolutely not a fraud, she was in houston not but a yr or so ago at one of the museums here.


I read she was found w/o parts of her body that were added later to have her "fit" as a type of missing link.  ...maybe it was some other fossil I'm thinking of that was proven to be a fraud?

4. I havent read the entire thing, but its obvious that this article doesnt go into depth as to why this species is the missing link it simply gives a few reasons without going into much detail. Ill wait until i see it text books that have been peer reviewed or articles that go into more depth that are peer reviewed.

Thanks for your answer tmt!

The nail thing as opposed to claws is a big deal believe it or not, it leads to a whole host of conclusions and is generally a feature of younger species in our lineage.

oh i thought you were asking if lucy the fossil was a fraud, i was never taught in any of my anthro classes that lucy was a the "missing link" so to say...yes bones had to be filled in which is the case with most fossils as most fossils arent always very well preserved but they do have a team of scientists and anthropologists that do so according to the fossil at hand and its features etc...its not some random ppl filling an agenda to my knowledge

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2009, 07:12:59 AM »
STUPID DESIGN


Deicide, you got these from Neil deGrasse Tyson, didn't you?

Well, here is the thing, why would someone like you who accepts evolution have a problem with these?  Aren't you supposed to believe that as living things evolve they do more with less parts?  So if dolphins have two holes, one to breath and another one to eat, aren't we more advanced since we can do both with a single hole?  Aren't we advanced because we can piss and ejaculate out of a single hole as opposed to having one hole for each?  We accomplish more with less parts.  That's efficient.  That's a good thing.

tonymctones

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2009, 07:21:59 AM »

Loco evolution doesnt state that as we evolve we do more with less parts...it states that those who are best adapted to the enviroment will survive and those traits that allowed them to survive will become more prevelant. In truth the most inefficient animal on the planet given the right enviroment could replace humans at the top.

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2009, 07:28:41 AM »
Loco evolution doesnt state that as we evolve we do more with less parts...it states that those who are best adapted to the enviroment will survive and those traits that allowed them to survive will become more prevelant. In truth the most inefficient animal on the planet given the right enviroment could replace humans at the top.

Unnecessary parts are discarded overtime.  Supposedly, early humans or humanoids allegedly had tails, and thumbs on their feet, like apes do.

tonymctones

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2009, 07:34:09 AM »
Unnecessary parts are discarded overtime.  Supposedly, early humans or humanoids allegedly had tails, and thumbs on their feet, like apes do.

LOL your missing the point, evolution isnt moving towards one end, it seems to me that you think that evolution is creating some superbeing and thats not the case. Its not that the parts where uneccesary its that they werent best suited for the enviroments in which they where present so other variations of such traits survived as opposed to those.

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2009, 07:47:54 AM »
LOL your missing the point, evolution isnt moving towards one end, it seems to me that you think that evolution is creating some superbeing and thats not the case. Its not that the parts where uneccesary its that they werent best suited for the enviroments in which they where present so other variations of such traits survived as opposed to those.

No, that's not what I think.  Unnecessary, not best suited, whatever.  Tyson was saying that if we are designed, then we are designed poorly because, unlike dolphins who have two holes, one to breath and one to eat, we only have one hole for both functions.  I disagree with Tyson that this implies poor design.

tonymctones

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #91 on: May 23, 2009, 08:10:17 AM »
No, that's not what I think.  Unnecessary, not best suited, whatever.  Tyson was saying that if we are designed, then we are designed poorly because, unlike dolphins who have two holes, one to breath and one to eat, we only have one hole for both functions.  I disagree with Tyson that this implies poor design.
poor design is in the eye of the beholder loco our design also lends itself to choking on food...

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2009, 08:13:43 AM »
poor design is in the eye of the beholder loco our design also lends itself to choking on food...

Sure!

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2009, 09:58:53 AM »
I hate the State.

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2009, 10:04:43 AM »
Your god=bad engineer

I don't think so, especially when I look at Jessica Alba.

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2009, 10:05:51 AM »
I don't think so, especially when I look at Jessica Alba.

That is NOT a good argument.
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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »
I don't think so, especially when I look at Jessica Alba.

god is logically impossible as you describe him, needless to say if all-powerful and all-knowing was possible, it is not, then birth defects need not happen, disease need not happen.

Our eyes are garbage, the majority of the population are myopic at young ages, there is no point in this.

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2009, 10:15:27 AM »
god is logically impossible as you describe him, needless to say if all-powerful and all-knowing was possible, it is not, then birth defects need not happen, disease need not happen.

Our eyes are garbage, the majority of the population are myopic at young ages, there is no point in this.

You=good genetics.
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tonymctones

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #98 on: May 23, 2009, 10:21:39 AM »
god is logically impossible as you describe him, needless to say if all-powerful and all-knowing was possible, it is not, then birth defects need not happen, disease need not happen.

Our eyes are garbage, the majority of the population are myopic at young ages, there is no point in this.
or evil of any kind for that matter...

loco

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Re: Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution
« Reply #99 on: May 23, 2009, 10:28:29 AM »
god is logically impossible as you describe him, needless to say if all-powerful and all-knowing was possible, it is not, then birth defects need not happen, disease need not happen.

Our eyes are garbage, the majority of the population are myopic at young ages, there is no point in this.

I know that you think this is silly, but as a Christian, I believe that all these are the result of sin entering this once "perfect" world.