Author Topic: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions  (Read 1354 times)

Dos Equis

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Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« on: July 10, 2009, 11:41:16 PM »
Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions

Friday, July 10, 2009 1:45 PM

The American people continue to move to the pro-life perspective on abortion according to the latest Moral Compass survey by the Knights of Columbus and Marist Poll.

The poll mirrored findings of other recent surveys, showing that more Americans identify as pro-life than as pro-choice, and that the vast majority of Americans favor restricting abortion.

Among the key findings:

# 86% of Americans would significantly restrict abortion.

# 60% of Americans would limit abortion to cases of rape, incest or to save the life of a mother – or would not allow it at all.

# 53% of Americans believe abortion does more harm than good to a woman in the long term.

# 79% of Americans support conscience exemptions on abortion for health care workers. This includes 64% of those who identify as strongly pro-choice.

# 69% of Americans think that it is appropriate for religious leaders to speak out on abortion.

# 59% say religious leaders have a key role to play in the abortion debate.

# 80% of Americans believe that laws can protect both the health of the woman and the life of the unborn. This includes 68% of those who identified as strongly pro-choice.

Additionally, the data showed that since October nearly every demographic sub-group had moved toward the pro-life position except for non-practicing Catholics and men under 45 years of age.

Independents and liberals showed the greatest shift to the pro-life position since October, while Democrats were slightly less likely to be pro-life now than they were in October.

“The data shows that the American people are placing an ever increasing value on human life,” said Supreme Knight Carl Anderson. “Far from the great divide that most people think exists when it comes to the abortion debate, there is actually a great deal of common ground. Most Americans are unhappy with the unrestricted access to abortion that is the legacy of Roe

vs. Wade, and pundits and elected leaders should take note of the fact that agreement on abortion need not be limited to the fringes of the debate and issues like adoption or pre-natal care. The American people have reached a basic consensus, and that consensus is at odds with the unrestricted access to abortion that is the legacy of Roe.”

The survey of 1,223 Americans was conducted May 28 – 31 and has a margin of error of +/-3%.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/poll_abortion_restriction/2009/07/10/234176.html

OzmO

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 09:55:44 AM »
legal only under certain circumstances (the top line) is essentially unchanged from 1976.

I wouldn't put a nickel worth of value into a survey by the Knights of Columbus.




OzmO

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 09:57:21 AM »
legal only under certain circumstances (the top line) is essentially unchanged from 1976.

I wouldn't be a nickel worth of value into a survey by the Knights of Columbus.





Aren't the KOC the Catholic Mafia?   :D

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 10:14:40 AM »


Interesting trend


http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Seems like the trend has always favored at least some restrictions.  Definitely inconsistent with Obama's views, who said while campaigning that one of the first things he would do is sign the "Freedom of Choice Act," removing all restrictions on abortion at any stage. 

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 10:22:52 AM »
Aren't the KOC the Catholic Mafia?   :D

Don't know if you could characterize them at the Catholic Mafia (full disclosure - my Dad is a member and for some reason they send me a tiny check every year for a life insurance policy he took out when I was a kid).

The poll appears to have been written by the KOC and administered by Maris.

From what I can see the 1223 participants were ~ 90% Catholic and there are a lot of contradictory conclusions.

http://www.kofc.org/cmf/resources/Communications/documents/poll_abortion_200907.pdf

Look at the conclusion to the question on page 6 of the attached PDF.

The question is "Do you think abortion should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?"

The responses were:

Legal In Only A Few Circumstances @ 42%
Legal In Most Circumstances @ 17%
Legal Under Any Circumstances @ 23%

Illegal In All Circumstances @ 18%

The conclusions at the top of the slide is: Six in ten "Americans" believe abortion should only be legal in a few circumstances or should not be legal at all.

Why not instead use those same results and say:  6 out of 10 "those polled" say abortion should be legal in most circumstances or any circumstances.

Same poll - same numbers but vastly different conclusion.

They could also say that 8 out of 10 of those polled believe that abortion should be legal in any, most and few circumstances.

Again - same exacxt poll and same exact numbers




Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 10:35:09 AM »
Seems like the trend has always favored at least some restrictions and that the country.  Definitely inconsistent with Obama's views, who said while campaigning that one of the first things he would do is sign the "Freedom of Choice Act," removing all restrictions on abortion at any stage

does the FOCA act actually remove ALL restrictions on abortion at any stage?

here's what I found on it:  The Freedom of Choice Act (H.R. 1964/S. 1173) was a bill in the 110th United States Congress which "declares that it is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child; terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability; or terminate a pregnancy after viability when necessary to protect her life or her health."

Would this have to be re-introduced by the new congress (and passed) before he could actually sign it (I don't know the procedure which is why I'm asking you).

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 10:50:53 AM »
The text of the Senate version is below, which does contain the "health of the mother" exception, but as we've seen with "Tiller the Baby Killer," that exception is fraught with abuse. 

This law would remove things like the parental notification requirements passed by numerous states. 

I don't believe the bill has ever been passed by both houses, which is required before it can reach the president's desk.  Even Democrats in Congress aren't comfortable with this bill (yet).  The fact Obama essentially called this his highest legislative priority during the campaign shows how out of touch he is with most of the country.   

S 1173 IS

110th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 1173

To protect, consistent with Roe v. Wade, a woman's freedom to choose to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

April 19, 2007

Mrs. BOXER (for herself, Mrs. MURRAY, Ms. STABENOW, Mr. BINGAMAN, Mr. MENENDEZ, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. CARDIN, Mr. SCHUMER, Mrs. CLINTON, Mrs. FEINSTEIN, Ms. MIKULSKI, Mr. BAUCUS, and Ms. CANTWELL) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To protect, consistent with Roe v. Wade, a woman's freedom to choose to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Freedom of Choice Act'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress finds the following:

(1) The United States was founded on core principles, such as liberty, personal privacy, and equality, which ensure that individuals are free to make their most intimate decisions without governmental interference and discrimination.

(2) One of the most private and difficult decisions an individual makes is whether to begin, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy. Those reproductive health decisions are best made by women, in consultation with their loved ones and health care providers.

(3) In 1965, in Griswold v. Connecticut (381 U.S. 479), and in 1973, in Roe v. Wade (410 U.S. 113) and Doe v. Bolton (410 U.S. 179), the Supreme Court recognized that the right to privacy protected by the Constitution encompasses the right of every woman to weigh the personal, moral, and religious considerations involved in deciding whether to begin, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy.

(4) The Roe v. Wade decision carefully balances the rights of women to make important reproductive decisions with the State's interest in potential life. Under Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton, the right to privacy protects a woman's decision to choose to terminate her pregnancy prior to fetal viability, with the State permitted to ban abortion after fetal viability except when necessary to protect a woman's life or health.

(5) These decisions have protected the health and lives of women in the United States. Prior to the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, an estimated 1,200,000 women each year were forced to resort to illegal abortions, despite the risk of unsanitary conditions, incompetent treatment, infection, hemorrhage, disfiguration, and death. Before Roe, it is estimated that thousands of women died annually in the United States as a result of illegal abortions.

(6) In countries in which abortion remains illegal, the risk of maternal mortality is high. According to the World Health Organization, of the approximately 600,000 pregnancy-related deaths occurring annually around the world, 80,000 are associated with unsafe abortions.

(7) The Roe v. Wade decision also expanded the opportunities for women to participate equally in society. In 1992, in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (505 U.S. 833), the Supreme Court observed that, `[t]he ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives.'.

(8) Even though the Roe v. Wade decision has stood for more than 34 years, there are increasing threats to reproductive health and freedom emerging from all branches and levels of government. In 2006, South Dakota became the first State in more than 15 years to enact a ban on abortion in nearly all circumstances. Supporters of this ban have admitted it is an attempt to directly challenge Roe in the courts. Other States are considering similar bans.

(9) Further threatening Roe, the Supreme Court recently upheld the first-ever Federal ban on an abortion procedure, which has no exception to protect a woman's health. The majority decision in Gonzales v. Carhart (05-380, slip op. April 18, 2007) and Gonzales v. Planned Parenthood Federation of America fails to protect a woman's health, a core tenet of Roe v. Wade. Dissenting in that case, Justice Ginsburg called the majority's opinion `alarming', and stated that, `[f]or the first time since Roe, the Court blesses a prohibition with no exception safeguarding a woman's health'. Further, she said, the Federal ban `and the Court's defense of it cannot be understood as anything other than an effort to chip away at a right declared again and again by this Court'.

(10) Legal and practical barriers to the full range of reproductive services endanger women's health and lives. Incremental restrictions on the right to choose imposed by Congress and State legislatures have made access to reproductive care extremely difficult, if not impossible, for many women across the country. Currently, 87 percent of the counties in the United States have no abortion provider.

(11) While abortion should remain safe and legal, women should also have more meaningful access to family planning services that prevent unintended pregnancies, thereby reducing the need for abortion.

(12) To guarantee the protections of Roe v. Wade, Federal legislation is necessary.

(13) Although Congress may not create constitutional rights without amending the Constitution, Congress may, where authorized by its enumerated powers and not prohibited by the Constitution, enact legislation to create and secure statutory rights in areas of legitimate national concern.

(14) Congress has the affirmative power under section 8 of article I of the Constitution and section 5 of the 14th amendment to the Constitution to enact legislation to facilitate interstate commerce and to prevent State interference with interstate commerce, liberty, or equal protection of the laws.

(15) Federal protection of a woman's right to choose to prevent or terminate a pregnancy falls within this affirmative power of Congress, in part, because--

(A) many women cross State lines to obtain abortions and many more would be forced to do so absent a constitutional right or Federal protection;

(B) reproductive health clinics are commercial actors that regularly purchase medicine, medical equipment, and other necessary supplies from out-of-State suppliers; and

(C) reproductive health clinics employ doctors, nurses, and other personnel who travel across State lines in order to provide reproductive health services to patients.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) GOVERNMENT- The term `government' includes a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official (or other individual acting under color of law) of the United States, a State, or a subdivision of a State.

(2) STATE- The term `State' means each of the States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and each territory or possession of the United States.

(3) VIABILITY- The term `viability' means that stage of pregnancy when, in the best medical judgment of the attending physician based on the particular medical facts of the case before the physician, there is a reasonable likelihood of the sustained survival of the fetus outside of the woman.

SEC. 4. INTERFERENCE WITH REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH PROHIBITED.

(a) Statement of Policy- It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.

(b) Prohibition of Interference- A government may not--

(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose--

(A) to bear a child;

(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or

(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or

(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.

(c) Civil Action- An individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may obtain appropriate relief (including relief against a government) in a civil action.

SEC. 5. SEVERABILITY.

If any provision of this Act, or the application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, or the application of such provision to persons or circumstances other than those as to which the provision is held to be unconstitutional, shall not be affected thereby.

SEC. 6. RETROACTIVE EFFECT.

This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute, ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy, practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on, or after the date of enactment of this Act.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1173

Straw Man

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 11:00:57 AM »
The text of the Senate version is below, which does contain the "health of the mother" exception,  but as we've seen with "Tiller the Baby Killer," that exception is fraught with abuse. 

This law would remove things like the parental notification requirements passed by numerous states. 

I don't believe the bill has ever been passed by both houses, which is required before it can reach the president's desk.  Even Democrats in Congress aren't comfortable with this bill (yet).
  The fact Obama essentially called this his highest legislative priority during the campaign shows how out of touch he is with most of the country.   

Ok so your initial statement that it would remove all restrictions at any stage is not accurate

Regarding Tiller, there is no evidence (other than anonymous stories on the internet) of any kind of abuse and certainly no evidence that it was "fraught with abuse"

It looks like we both agree that Obama can't actually sign the bill until it introduced again and passes both House and Senate so he hasn't actually broken any promise at all (not saying you said that he did - just clarifying the current situation)

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 11:17:55 AM »
Whatever.  A number of people who have read the bill believe it removes all restrictions.  I agree with them.  So no, my opinion is still my opinion. 

Yes, there was credible evidence of "Tiller the Baby Killer" abusing the "health of the mother" exception, including the findings of this psychiatrist:



What needed to be clarified?  No one said or implied that he broke a campaign promise or that the bill was on his desk.  I doubt it gets there anytime soon, especially given the tenuous hold Democrats have on Congress, the 2010 elections looming, and the fact the bill is out of step with most Americans' views. 

drkaje

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2009, 11:24:20 AM »
"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics". :)

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 11:26:13 AM »
"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics". :)

Truth.   :)

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2009, 11:30:37 AM »
and the fact the bill is out of step with most Americans' views. 
You're not making that claim based on this poll, are you?

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 11:34:25 AM »
You're not making that claim based on this poll, are you?

No.  I'm making this claim based on numerous polls I've seen for years that say pretty much the same thing, the fact we have numerous laws in numerous states consistent with these polls, the fact even Democrats in Congress can't get enough votes to pass the FOCA (yet), and just my own life experience talking to people around the country. 

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 11:37:52 AM »
Whatever.  A number of people who have read the bill believe it removes all restrictions.  I agree with them.  So no, my opinion is still my opinion. 

Yes, there was credible evidence of "Tiller the Baby Killer" abusing the "health of the mother" exception, including the findings of this psychiatrist:



What needed to be clarified?  No one said or implied that he broke a campaign promise or that the bill was on his desk.  I doubt it gets there anytime soon, especially given the tenuous hold Democrats have on Congress, the 2010 elections looming, and the fact the bill is out of step with most Americans' views. 

the video keeps pausing but I think you've posted this many times before

The Dr. in the video is a physchiatrist and never actually met of the patients in question.  If I recall correctly he's rendering an opinion on a records he's reviewed of a handful of patients who claimed the need to abort for phyciatric reasons.  We  have no proof that his claims are accurate or true.  You are free to believe them if you want but since this man was hired by the Attorney General you'd think if he had any real evidence then Tiller would have been convicted instead of being acquited on all counts.   

For the sake of argument, let's go ahead and assume that what he is saying is true.  What is the % of these cases when compared to all the other late term abortions.  I guess some fraction of 1% ......hardly "fraught with abuse" as you've suggested.   No system is perfect but it would be insane to scrap the whole thing based on a compliance rate of 99.9% is not satisfactory to you.   

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2009, 11:40:43 AM »
The data from the poll clearly shows that 8 out of 10 of those polled favor legal abortion with 6 out of 10 in favor of few or no restrictions.


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2009, 11:42:35 AM »
I don't believe I have ever posted this clip.   ::)  In fact, this is the first time I've listened to it.  I've only previously reviewed excerpts of this psychiatrist's opinions.  Just flat out alarming.  He concluded that NONE of the justifications given by "Tiller the Baby Killer" involved legitimate psychological medical issues.  Did you even listen to the clip??  Especially his final conclusion?  

In any event, the contention that there is nothing more than internet rumor regarding abuse of the "health of the mother" exception is false.

drkaje

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 11:44:17 AM »
Polls don't typically reflect facts.

The right question will get people any response they want. :)

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2009, 11:50:26 AM »
I don't believe I have ever posted this clip.   ::)  In fact, this is the first time I've listened to it.  I've only previously reviewed excerpts of this psychiatrist's opinions.  Just flat out alarming.  He concluded that NONE of the justifications given by "Tiller the Baby Killer" involved legitimate psychological medical issues.  Did you even listen to the clip??  Especially his final conclusion?  

In any event, the contention that there is nothing more than internet rumor regarding abuse of the "health of the mother" exception is false.

like I said previous, the clip kept pausing.  I watched as much as I could.  Unless there was some other psychiatrist reviewing Tillers records then I've heard this guys claim before.  Why should I believe this guys opinion anyway.  He sounds like he was hired by the AG to find evidence to support his case.
The "evidence" seems to be nothing more than this guys opinion and since Tiller was acquitted there is no reason for me to believe this guy.  You of course are free to believe whatever you'd like.

Do you know the % of late term abortions that Tiller did for reasons of "mental health"

Do know how often "expert witness" testimony is complete bullshit

Again, believe whatever you want but you've given me no compelling reason to believe this guy, especially when Tiller was acquitted by a jury of his peers of any wrongdoing

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2009, 11:53:41 AM »
Dude believe whatever you want.  I'm not trying to give you a compelling case of anything. 

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2009, 11:56:56 AM »
Dude believe whatever you want.  I'm not trying to give you a compelling case of anything. 

hey, at least I'm trying to see your point of view

Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2009, 11:58:52 AM »
lol.  I doubt that. 

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2009, 12:03:53 PM »
really - If I weren't I would have responded to your last statement by saying "mission accomplished".

Why would I waste my time if I weren't trying to listen and understand opposing views.


Dos Equis

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2009, 12:11:43 PM »
Listening to and and trying to understand opposing viewpoints is a good thing. 

Al Doggity

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Re: Poll: 86 Percent of U.S. Wants Abortion Restrictions
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2009, 12:13:43 PM »
like I said previous, the clip kept pausing.  I watched as much as I could.  Unless there was some other psychiatrist reviewing Tillers records then I've heard this guys claim before.  Why should I believe this guys opinion anyway.  He sounds like he was hired by the AG to find evidence to support his case.
The "evidence" seems to be nothing more than this guys opinion and since Tiller was acquitted there is no reason for me to believe this guy.  You of course are free to believe whatever you'd like.

Do you know the % of late term abortions that Tiller did for reasons of "mental health"

Do know how often "expert witness" testimony is complete bullshit

Again, believe whatever you want but you've given me no compelling reason to believe this guy, especially when Tiller was acquitted by a jury of his peers of any wrongdoing
Your posts on abortion topics are always pretty good, especially when it comes to statistics. As has already been posted in this thread, you can pretty much derive a poll number to support any position you have.