Olympia: Special Ed's Top Ten + Ed vs. Chick Battle

[Blockhead]

 I wonder how many IFBB/NPC judges and various talking heads have already viewed this thread from their blackberrys. More than likely all of them...



 - Block!

[Van_Bilderass]

They're not, and there wont be anyone coming forward claiming they are as they don't exsist...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say...your first post seems to indicate that you agree that they are fixed and that EVENTUALLy someone will come forward....then you seem to take a step back from that stance....now you seem to agree that it's near impossible.

Perhaps I read your post wrong?

I meant that IF they are fixed it would be impossible to keep secret, especially over time. Eventually someone WOULD come forward - if that was the case.

I have a hard time believing the O is fixed outright, but then again I'm not involved in any way and don't have special insight.

[Mons Venus]

IFBB is more fixed than the WWE.

[Special Ed]

I've personally witnessed the head judge at an IFBB Pro show crossing out another judge's scores and putting in his own. It happened at the 2002 Night of Champions where I was sitting in the first row, directly behind the judges table. King Kamali's scores were being downgraded and Craig Titus's scores were being upgraded.
For anyone who hasn't personally witnessed this, one merely has to look at any of the "come from behind" Olympia victories...I mean sheesh, this isn't a horserace or a baseball game! When Cutler leads and Ronnie "overtakes him" or Victor leads and Cutler "surpasses him at the night show," what more do you need to see?

AMI/Weider DOES pre-select the winner because it is THEIR show - look at the signage:'Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia'. Would Steve Blechman 'let' Phil Heath win if the show was the MD Olympia and he couldn't use Phil's likeness or image for the next year in his magazines? Of course not.

Look at Dexter, who suddenly won the Olympia conveniently and immediately after he agreed to "jump" from MD to AMI/Weider.

Simply stated, Joe Weider and his legacy cannot and will not allow the Mr. Olympia title (that HE CREATED) to be used to EXCLUDE his own magazines from covering the winner. It's nothing more than common sense and capitalism. It's no more random than HALO WARS being an XBox exclusive.

HTH!

[BIG_STI]

What a joke this "sport" is. Although I'm sure that tool Chick will be blowing flames at this thread.

[Mons Venus]

I've personally witnessed the head judge at an IFBB Pro show crossing out another judge's scores and putting in his own. It happened at the 2002 Night of Champions where I was sitting in the first row, directly behind the judges table. King Kamali's scores were being downgraded and Craig Titus's scores were being upgraded.
For anyone who hasn't personally witnessed this, one merely has to look at any of the "come from behind" Olympia victories...I mean sheesh, this isn't a horserace or a baseball game! When Cutler leads and Ronnie "overtakes him" or Victor leads and Cutler "surpasses him at the night show," what more do you need to see?

AMI/Weider DOES pre-select the winner because it is THEIR show - look at the signage:'Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia'. Would Steve Blechman 'let' Phil Heath win if the show was the MD Olympia and he couldn't use Phil's likeness or image for the next year in his magazines? Of course not.

Look at Dexter, who suddenly won the Olympia conveniently and immediately after he agreed to "jump" from MD to AMI/Weider.

Simply stated, Joe Weider and his legacy cannot and will not allow the Mr. Olympia title (that HE CREATED) to be used to EXCLUDE his own magazines from covering the winner. It's nothing more than common sense and capitalism. It's no more random than HALO WARS being an XBox exclusive.

HTH!

Great sport man!!

[stuntmovie]

ED, It will be interesting to see if the official results are somewhat consistent with your forecast. Do you still stand by your initial input?

[Chick]

I've personally witnessed the head judge at an IFBB Pro show crossing out another judge's scores and putting in his own. It happened at the 2002 Night of Champions where I was sitting in the first row, directly behind the judges table. King Kamali's scores were being downgraded and Craig Titus's scores were being upgraded.
For anyone who hasn't personally witnessed this, one merely has to look at any of the "come from behind" Olympia victories...I mean sheesh, this isn't a horserace or a baseball game! When Cutler leads and Ronnie "overtakes him" or Victor leads and Cutler "surpasses him at the night show," what more do you need to see?

AMI/Weider DOES pre-select the winner because it is THEIR show - look at the signage:'Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia'. Would Steve Blechman 'let' Phil Heath win if the show was the MD Olympia and he couldn't use Phil's likeness or image for the next year in his magazines? Of course not.

Look at Dexter, who suddenly won the Olympia conveniently and immediately after he agreed to "jump" from MD to AMI/Weider.

Simply stated, Joe Weider and his legacy cannot and will not allow the Mr. Olympia title (that HE CREATED) to be used to EXCLUDE his own magazines from covering the winner. It's nothing more than common sense and capitalism. It's no more random than HALO WARS being an XBox exclusive.

HTH!

Yet Ronnie won while not on board as a Weider athlete, as did Dorian Yates...and somehow Sergio beat out Arnold in 69 even though Weider had Arnold under contract and was considered the golden boy

[YoungBlood]

Yet Ronnie won while not on board as a Weider athlete,

Flex Wheeler always made the connection that Ronnie was with Met-Rx at the end of his contract, so while not being with Weider when Ronnie won, he was AVAILABLE to sign afterwords and we all know he did. But the first ads of Ronnie with an Olympia trophy showed him wearing a Met-Rx hat.
I think there are parts that seem to be true, but also other parts that are full of holes.

[Chick]

Flex Wheeler always made the connection that Ronnie was with Met-Rx at the end of his contract, so while not being with Weider when Ronnie won, he was AVAILABLE to sign afterwords and we all know he did. But the first ads of Ronnie with an Olympia trophy showed him wearing a Met-Rx hat.
I think there are parts that seem to be true, but also other parts that are full of holes.

Anyone is "available" AFTER their contract...

Of course there are holes, especially in all these ridiculous conspiracy theories...convenient when the guess is right, but explained away when the guess is wrong.

Phil is a MetRx athletes, but also a AMI athlete...

Muscletech isn't title sponsor this year, so I guess you can all throw out that angle...

Ultimate Nutrition is title sponsor, and has Markus Ruhl in the show....if he wins, now you got something...

Victor is with MHP and MD...if he wins, you guys REALLY dint have anything to say

Same with Kai Greene...

If Jay regains the title, then I guess its a AMI thing since you dint have MT to cry foul this year..

Dex repeating as the champ throws out your Phil fix scenario...but I guess you can still fall back on the AMI contract...



Allegedly,the fix was in back in 2001 when Jay was touted to beat Ronnie to boost ticket sales and set up a rematch....but Ronnie ended up winning....

Gunter beats Ronnie at the GNC SOS as he's supposed to go on to the Olympia Title....but he ends up losing there as well.

Flex Wheeler was all but declared the winner as a Weider athlete....but got beat by Ronnie who was with MetRx and nowhere near the top 5 the year before...

Ronnie was allegedly guaranteed victory number 9, but ended up losing to Cutler...

[dr.chimps]

Chickster? Stop making sense.   

[Special Ed]

Phil is a MetRx athletes, but also a AMI athlete...

Muscletech isn't title sponsor this year, so I guess you can all throw out that angle...

Ultimate Nutrition is title sponsor, and has Markus Ruhl in the show....if he wins, now you got something...

Victor is with MHP and MD...if he wins, you guys REALLY dint have anything to say

Same with Kai Greene...

If Jay regains the title, then I guess its a AMI thing since you dint have MT to cry foul this year..

Dex repeating as the champ throws out your Phil fix scenario...but I guess you can still fall back on the AMI contract...

Allegedly,the fix was in back in 2001 when Jay was touted to beat Ronnie to boost ticket sales and set up a rematch....but Ronnie ended up winning....

Gunter beats Ronnie at the GNC SOS as he's supposed to go on to the Olympia Title....but he ends up losing there as well.

Flex Wheeler was all but declared the winner as a Weider athlete....but got beat by Ronnie who was with MetRx and nowhere near the top 5 the year before...

Ronnie was allegedly guaranteed victory number 9, but ended up losing to Cutler...

Mixing apples and grapefruits my friend. I am talking about the only business Weider has left, which is his magazines/Olympia. No one said anything about Weider supplements (if they're still around). And regarding Ultimate Nutrition...yes, a 15th place worthy Markus Ruhl will definitely make the top ten this year if UN is the title sponsor!

Again, the issue is black and white.

So if Bob could please answer this:

Do you honestly believe the judges would EVER turn over EXCLUSIVE control over the MR. OLYMPIA title to STEVE BLECHMAN and MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT and leave FLEX Magazine with ZERO ability to interview, feature, or otherwise take non-contest photographs of Mr. Olympia for one or more years?

My opinion: It has never happened. And it never will.

[DK II]

1. Whomever Flex/AMI has decided should win this year (Phil Heath);
2. Whomever Muscletech has decided should be second this year (Dexter Jackson);
3. Whomever Jim Manion likes the most and thinks should be 3rd (Jay Cutler);
4. Whomever Steve Weinberger likes the most and thinks should be 4th (Victor Martinez);
5. Whomever Steve Blechman thinks should win but won't (Kai Greene);
6. Whomever Steve Blechman thinks should get second because he is so powerful but he's not (Dennis Wolf);
7. Whomever Lee Thompson likes the most and thinks should be 5th, but Blechman sponsors more events (Branch Warren);
8. Whomever John Lindsay likes the most and does the most West Coast favors for (Melvin Anthony);
9. Whomever placed 5th last year as they fade into obscurity and become a footnote (Toney Freeman);
10. Whomever the judges feel should place 5th, but due to politics will be placed 10th (Ronnie Coleman).

DAMN!


Mods, please make this a sticky for eternity. Best post EVER on getbig.

[flexingtonsteele]

I've personally witnessed the head judge at an IFBB Pro show crossing out another judge's scores and putting in his own. It happened at the 2002 Night of Champions where I was sitting in the first row, directly behind the judges table. King Kamali's scores were being downgraded and Craig Titus's scores were being upgraded.
For anyone who hasn't personally witnessed this, one merely has to look at any of the "come from behind" Olympia victories...I mean sheesh, this isn't a horserace or a baseball game! When Cutler leads and Ronnie "overtakes him" or Victor leads and Cutler "surpasses him at the night show," what more do you need to see?

AMI/Weider DOES pre-select the winner because it is THEIR show - look at the signage:'Joe Weider's Mr. Olympia'. Would Steve Blechman 'let' Phil Heath win if the show was the MD Olympia and he couldn't use Phil's likeness or image for the next year in his magazines? Of course not.

Look at Dexter, who suddenly won the Olympia conveniently and immediately after he agreed to "jump" from MD to AMI/Weider.

Simply stated, Joe Weider and his legacy cannot and will not allow the Mr. Olympia title (that HE CREATED) to be used to EXCLUDE his own magazines from covering the winner. It's nothing more than common sense and capitalism. It's no more random than HALO WARS being an XBox exclusive.

HTH!

too bad special jay doesnt post here more often, cos he SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

[Chick]

Mixing apples and grapefruits my friend. I am talking about the only business Weider has left, which is his magazines/Olympia. No one said anything about Weider supplements (if they're still around)

You're right...no one did mention Weider supplements (which are 99% based in Europe)...so why did you?




. And regarding Ultimate Nutrition...yes, a 15th place worthy Markus Ruhl will definitely make the top ten this year if UN is the title sponsor!


LOL.....OK. Guess you can spin that however you want and justifys your position.

So if Markus looks great and is deserving of top 10, then it's because of UN sponsor dollars...
If he looks like he should be 15th and places 14th, you'll point the finger to the sponsor...

Again, the issue is black and white.

So if Bob could please answer this:

Do you honestly believe the judges would EVER turn over EXCLUSIVE control over the MR. OLYMPIA title to STEVE BLECHMAN and MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT and leave FLEX Magazine with ZERO ability to interview, feature, or otherwise take non-contest photographs of Mr. Olympia for one or more years?


You put WAY to much emphasis to something that doesnt mean a hell of a lot....there is no "ecxclusive" these days...everyone does interviews (be it through supp ads or 3rd party)  Jay had a "column" in MD for years even though he was under contract with AMI...Muscletech puts 14 page spreads/ ads in EVERY publication with titles of "How I won the Olympia", etc....

Jay/ Dex/ Phil, etc have all been on MD/MM/Ironman, etc numerous times...
My opinion: It has never happened. And it never will.


You're entitled to your opinion...and when it does happen...you'll be ready with yet another spin as to why.

BTW...I noticed you didnt have a chance to respond to my post you quoted, tackling the many conspiracies over the years (or lack therof)...I'm sure it was just an oversight

[NaturalWonder83]

great posts ed finally the truth is revealed

[tendonitis]

Chick, we all saw the 07 Olympia debacle.  We're not stupid.  The Olympia is not a contest, it's an AMI marketing tool. 

[just_a_pilgrim]

Has anyone seen Pumping Iron 2?

There is a scene where Ben Weider tells the judges to mark down competitors showing signs of being too muscular. That isn't influencing the judging? Some put Bev in 1st, some put her last.

As for Chick, he bitched and moaned when they wouldn't compare him to Titus (and being placed below him), despite saying every show he was compared to Titus he beat him. So there's nothing wrong with the judging Chick? 

[Chick]

Has anyone seen Pumping Iron 2?

There is a scene where Ben Weider tells the judges to mark down competitors showing signs of being too muscular. That isn't influencing the judging? Some put Bev in 1st, some put her last.

As for Chick, he bitched and moaned when they wouldn't compare him to Titus (and being placed below him), despite saying every show he was compared to Titus he beat him. So there's nothing wrong with the judging Chick? 

Judging is subjective in BB and based on opinion, that said, what your talking about differs greatly in that complaining about lack of comparisons is a world away from "fixing " shows...and something I've campaigned for (and gotten approval) ever since...

Concerning Bev....Ben was the pres of the IFBB...giving direction as to what the criteria is suppossed to be, is expected and as Pres, he has every right to do so.

 I dont recall Ben ever having any discussions as to SPECIFIC competitors being placed in any particular order...

[Special Ed]

Bob,

You brought up Weider supplements when you said that Ronnie Coleman wasn't with Weider when he won the O. Back then, Weider publishing was the only magazine that paid for exclusivity. Ronnie Coleman was NOT under contract with a competing magazine. And it should be noted that shortly after winning the O, Ronnie suddenly dumped Met-Rx and became a Weider-exclusive athlete. Was the deal between Coleman and Weider agreed to in principle BEFORE the 1998 Olympia just as the Dexter Jackson-AMI deal was agreed to PRIOR to Dexter winning the 2008 Olympia? Hmmm...

I appreciate your loyalty to the powerbrokers who have been good to you, but as I have said: I have seen Olympia judges (at non-Olympia shows) ALTERING SCORECARDS of other judges to achieve SPECIFIC RESULTS. That meets most peoples, gamblers, and casinos definition of 'fixing'.

Don't get me started on Dorian Yates. The guy became best buds with the Head Olympia judge, stayed at his house for two weeks prior to the O each year, and won the Olympia while missing an entire major bodypart in the biggest disgrace of Olympia 'competition' ever.

Anyway, if Markus Ruhl places out of the top ten this year, a Bob Bowl at the Firehouse is on me!

[Chick]

Bob,

You brought up Weider supplements when you said that Ronnie Coleman wasn't with Weider when he won the O. Back then, Weider publishing was the only magazine that paid for exclusivity. Ronnie Coleman was NOT under contract with a competing magazine. And it should be noted that shortly after winning the O, Ronnie suddenly dumped Met-Rx and became a Weider-exclusive athlete. Was the deal between Coleman and Weider agreed to in principle BEFORE the 1998 Olympia just as the Dexter Jackson-AMI deal was agreed to PRIOR to Dexter winning the 2008 Olympia? Hmmm...

I appreciate your loyalty to the powerbrokers who have been good to you, but as I have said: I have seen Olympia judges (at non-Olympia shows) ALTERING SCORECARDS of other judges to achieve SPECIFIC RESULTS. That meets most peoples, gamblers, and casinos definition of 'fixing'.

Don't get me started on Dorian Yates. The guy became best buds with the Head Olympia judge, stayed at his house for two weeks prior to the O each year, and won the Olympia while missing an entire major bodypart in the biggest disgrace of Olympia 'competition' ever.

Anyway, if Markus Ruhl places out of the top ten this year, a Bob Bowl at the Firehouse is on me!

Weider supps and Weider pubs are two different entities....point being...Ronnie wasnt with EITHER when he won the O...beating a much heralded WEIDER athlete who was under contract...Flex Wheeler.


Who knows what you've seen...unless you were actually ON the judging panel, chances are, you didnt see what you thought....or.....you seen what you wanted to see,

I didnt agree with the Dorian decision on a few occasions, nor the FRanco81 decision, Haney winning over Labrada in 89, or all of Colemans wins.....doesnt mean the shows are predetermined, just that the judges seen a different result than we did.

[JimmyJam1974]

Experts on ESPN picked Jay. Anyone else see that?

[Vince B]

Who knows what you've seen...unless you were actually ON the judging panel, chances are, you didnt see what you thought....or.....you seen what you wanted to see,

This is vintage Manion sophistry to make the IFBB sound authentic. The IFBB patsy, stooge, and informer Bob Chick is recruited to save the Pro League.

Special Ed gives us an anecdotal report telling us what he saw. This is good enough for me. However, we should remain sceptical because Special Ed might have been mistaken about what he saw. He thought he saw a head judge cross out a score and replace it with his own. Yep, that sounds like what happens. The errant judge had to be corrected by the head judge. Bob calls Jim and asks what to post to discredit Special Ed. Voila, the quote above. This is the theatre of the absurd for sure.

We can imagine what happened in the Masters Pro. Poor Rusty was relegated to 8th and wasn't compared with the guys who won. Great to have mates who are running the contest you are in, right Chick?

[Chick]

This is vintage Manion sophistry to make the IFBB sound authentic. The IFBB patsy, stooge, and informer Bob Chick is recruited to save the Pro League.

Special Ed gives us an anecdotal report telling us what he saw. This is good enough for me. However, we should remain sceptical because Special Ed might have been mistaken about what he saw. He thought he saw a head judge cross out a score and replace it with his own. Yep, that sounds like what happens. The errant judge had to be corrected by the head judge. Bob calls Jim and asks what to post to discredit Special Ed. Voila, the quote above. This is the theatre of the absurd for sure.

We can imagine what happened in the Masters Pro. Poor Rusty was relegated to 8th and wasn't compared with the guys who won. Great to have mates who are running the contest you are in, right Chick?

LOL....vintage Basile...clueless in Australia

Unless Special Ed was sitting on the panel, or looking directly over the shoulder of the head judge (who doesn't cast a vot, BTW...) he would have no way to actually see what they were doing...just his own perception and interpretation. 

Are these the same "mates" Basile, that scored me out of the top 5 on occasion, or had me still competing in the amateurs?  Funny how it only fits your agenda when it suits you....

clown

[Vince B]

Judging is subjective in BB and based on opinion, that said, what your talking about differs greatly in that complaining about lack of comparisons is a world away from "fixing " shows...and something I've campaigned for (and gotten approval) ever since...

Concerning Bev....Ben was the pres of the IFBB...giving direction as to what the criteria is suppossed to be, is expected and as Pres, he has every right to do so.

 I dont recall Ben ever having any discussions as to SPECIFIC competitors being placed in any particular order...

Right here Bob Chick abandons all credibility and joins the IFBB as hatchet man and errand boy. What a joke that 1983 contest was in Las Vegas. The contest fixing has been recorded for posterity. Ben clearly instructed the judges not to let Bev Francis win. Who else was he referring to when he mentioned muscularity?  Bev never won the Ms Olympia no matter what she did.

The amusing thing is Bev would probably win now because of her association with Weinberger. There was hapless Steve lamenting Bev placing 8th in that contest won by Rachel McLish.  Ben did a bad thing that day and women's bodybuilding has been corrupt ever since.