Author Topic: [Twenty-seven] states/state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill  (Read 32631 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 05:14:15 PM »
Double Bee,

What do you think about term limits now?! :)

I don't think term limits is the problem.  At least not with this issue.  It only took Obama about a year to do this. 

Straw Man

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 05:16:18 PM »
Straw I have an even more simple fix.

Survival of the fittest- Let everyone with preexisting conditions die right now with zero coverage. Everyone without coverage now can also die. Life goes on the way it always has.

Afterall, if people get sick and die, they probably were meant to be taken out of the genepool right?



don't we already have that systme right now - well rather we had it up until Obama signed the bill today

George Whorewell

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 05:49:19 PM »
Gee whiz. Nothing gets by you does it?  ::)

drkaje

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 05:50:43 PM »
I don't think term limits is the problem.  At least not with this issue.  It only took Obama about a year to do this. 

This took the help/failure of career whores politicians.

Dos Equis

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 05:52:23 PM »
This took the help/failure of career whores politicians.

Yeah.  They played a role too, but do you really think "new" Democrats would have had the backbone to say "no"? 

drkaje

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 05:57:13 PM »
Yeah.  They played a role too, but do you really think "new" Democrats would have had the backbone to say "no"? 

Are there even democrats or republicans left these days?

Dos Equis

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 06:03:11 PM »
Are there even democrats or republicans left these days?


Hard to tell on a lot of issues.  They're all to blame for that stupid mulit-administration stimulus.  Sort of makes you want to stay home on election day.   :-\

Straw Man

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 06:05:16 PM »
Gee whiz. Nothing gets by you does it?  ::)

so you're saying Grayson was right?

why did the Repubs get so insulted then if he was simply telling the truth


drkaje

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2010, 06:09:19 PM »
Hard to tell on a lot of issues.  They're all to blame for that stupid mulit-administration stimulus.  Sort of makes you want to stay home on election day.   :-\

If you stay home they win.

Dos Equis

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Re: [Twelve] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 06:24:02 PM »
If you stay home they win.

True.  I always vote. 

Dos Equis

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2010, 09:41:06 PM »
More than thirty states are considering legislation to block parts of the bill.  Doubt they can do that, but just further shows how the majority of the country does not want this. 

14 states sue to block health care law
By the CNN Wire Staff
March 23, 2010

(CNN) -- Officials from 14 states have gone to court to block the historic overhaul of the U.S. health care system that President Obama signed into law Tuesday, arguing the law's requirement that individuals buy health insurance violates the Constitution.

Thirteen of those officials filed suit in a federal court in Pensacola, Florida, minutes after Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The complaint calls the act an "unprecedented encroachment on the sovereignty of the states" and asks a judge to block its enforcement.

"The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualifying health care coverage," the lawsuit states.
The case was filed by Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum and joined by 11 other Republican attorneys general, along with one Democrat. McCollum said the new law also forces states "to do things that are practically impossible to do as a practical matter, and forcing us to do it without giving any resources or money to do it."

McCollum's lawsuit was joined by his counterparts in Alabama, Colorado, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota Texas, Utah and Washington. Virginia's attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, filed a separate case in his state Tuesday afternoon.

All but one of those state officials, Louisiana's Buddy Caldwell, are Republicans. But McCollum said the case is not a partisan issue and predicted other Democrats would join the suit.
"It's a question for most of us in the states of the costs to our people and to the rights and the freedoms of the individual citizens in upholding our constitutional duties as attorneys general," he said.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Monday that lawyers have advised the administration it would win the lawsuits. And Democratic Party spokesman Hari Sevugan called the lawsuit "a waste of state funds during the worst economic crisis in a generation."

"The American people don't want any more delay, obstruction or hypocrisy on this. They want thoughtfully implemented reform so that it works for all Americans," Sevugan said.
Renee Landers, a law professor at Suffolk University in Massachusetts, said the Constitution gives Congress broad power to regulate commerce and promote the general welfare of Americans.

"If the federal courts follow existing precedents of the United States Supreme Court, I don't think that the claims will be successful," Landers told CNN.

Ryan Wiggins, a spokesman for McCollum, said the case was filed in Pensacola because "we were told that out of all of the places to file in Florida, Pensacola would move the quickest on it."
At least one of the officials who signed onto the lawsuit has run into criticism back home. Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire, a Democrat, criticized Republican Attorney General Rob McKenna for joining the case and said she would actively oppose the suit.

Separately, legislatures in three dozen states are considering proposed legislation aimed at blocking elements of the health care bill. But Cal Jillson, a political science professor at Southern Methodist University in Texas, said the Constitution says laws passed by Congress trump state laws.

"We've got a very conservative Supreme Court, but they're not about to overturn 200 years of Constitutional history and interpretation and declare that the supremacy clause is no longer in effect," Jillson said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/23/health.care.lawsuit/index.html?hpt=T1

Straw Man

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2010, 12:27:32 AM »
More than thirty states are considering legislation to block parts of the bill.  Doubt they can do that, but just further shows how the majority of the country does not want this

YOU LIE !


http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx

JohnC1908

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2010, 12:48:37 AM »
YOU LIE !


http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx

Well you could link the Rasmussen poll...you know the group that polls "likely voters." But that wouldn't fit your agenda. In November we'll find out if the majority of americans "support" force.

Straw Man

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 01:27:34 PM »
Well you could link the Rasmussen poll...you know the group that polls "likely voters." But that wouldn't fit your agenda. In November we'll find out if the majority of americans "support" force.

I gave you the link to the Gallup poll which was just done yesterday

if you want Rasmussen go find it yourself

Soul Crusher

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 01:29:07 PM »
I gave you the link to the Gallup poll which was just done yesterday

if you want Rasmussen go find it yourself

 ::)  ::)

You are the same one who thought these polls were wrong all along, but believe them now.  Typical. 

Straw Man

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 01:35:47 PM »
::)  ::)

You are the same one who thought these polls were wrong all along, but believe them now.  Typical. 

uh - when did I say "these polls are wrong all along"

why do you just constantly make shit up?

Soul Crusher

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 01:36:53 PM »
uh - when did I say "these polls are wrong all along"

why do you just constantly make shit up?


Look, the MSM has been kneepadding this thing for a week now.  Of course the polls are going to move a bit.  The same thing happened after the SOTU address.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 02:28:31 PM »
States Sue Over Overhaul That Will Bust State Budgets (Update2)
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By Pat Wechsler


March 23 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama faces a fight over the health-care overhaul from states that sued today because the legislation’s expansion of Medicaid imposes a fiscal strain on their cash-strapped budgets.

Florida, Texas and Pennsylvania are among 14 states that filed suit after the president signed the bill over the constitutionality of the burden imposed by the legislation. The health-care overhaul will make as many as 15 million more Americans eligible for Medicaid nationwide starting in 2014 and will cost the states billions to administer.

States faced with unprecedented declines in tax collections are cutting benefits and payments to hospitals and doctors in Medicaid, the health program for the poor paid jointly by state and U.S. governments. The costs to hire staff and plan for the average 25 percent increase in Medicaid rolls may swamp budgets, said Toby Douglas, who manages the Medicaid program for California, which hasn’t joined the lawsuits.

“The states are coming through the worst fiscal period in the history of record keeping,” said Vernon Smith, a former Medicaid director for Michigan and now a principal at the research and consulting firm Health Management Associates in Lansing, Michigan. “Medicaid is the most significant, most visible and most costly part of this expansion and states fully expect to see increases in their spending.”

California’s Deficit

For California, with a $20 billion budget deficit, the extra load will cost at least an additional $2 billion to $3 billion annually, said Douglas, chief deputy director for California’s health care programs. He said the overhaul is currently projected to add 1.6 million people to the 7 million enrolled in his state’s program.

“We face enormous challenges just sustaining our existing program,” said Douglas in a March 18 telephone interview. “I just don’t see states having the capacity to move forward on these changes in this environment.”

The numbers of new enrollees because of the overhaul are based on current estimates and may be low, he said in an e-mail. The estimate doesn’t incorporate the growth that the program, known in California as Medi-Cal, may experience even without the new federal legislation, he said.

Medi-Cal recipients are projected to increase 4.3 percent to 7.3 million in fiscal 2011, which begins July 1, spokesman Norman Williams said.

Court Challenge

Douglas’s state is battling in court over Medicaid spending cuts it tried to make this fiscal year. The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on March 3 barred California from reducing payments to doctors and hospitals, saying federal law required states to maintain “equal access to basic health care” for the poor. California is appealing the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.

The federal government mandates that states provide health coverage under Medicaid to children, pregnant women, and the elderly and disabled poor. States set the rules on eligibility and decide which benefits to provide, making for a complex hodge-podge of coverage standards across the nation. The health- care overhaul simplifies the system by setting a minimum national floor and requires that all states cover childless adults, who will make up almost all of the expansion enrollees.

Medicaid Spending

Medicaid spent more than $344 billion in 2008, about 15 percent of total national health-care expenditures that year, according to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, which administers the program. It currently covers 60 million, about the same as Medicare, the federal program for the elderly and disabled, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation in Menlo Park, California. The U.S. government covered about 57 percent of Medicaid’s cost in 2008, the foundation said.

Florida will have to spend an additional $1.6 billion for Medicaid and hire 1,000 new workers to accommodate the overhaul, the state’s Attorney General Bill McCollum said yesterday in Orlando, Florida.

“This is a bad bill,” he said. “That’s a political determination and a practical one.”

The states that sued are Alabama, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Washington, McCollum said in a statement on his office’s Web site.

The complaint posted on the Florida attorney general’s Web site called the legislation an “encroachment on the sovereignty of states,” and said Florida will be asked to “broaden its Medicaid eligibility standards to accommodate upwards of 50 percent more enrollees.”

Insurance Mandate

Besides the added Medicaid costs, the states are also challenging the right of the federal government to impose a mandate requiring individuals to buy health insurance. Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, whose state filed a separate lawsuit today challenging the law, called the health legislation an “unconstitutional overreach” of the federal government’s authority.

Nancy-Ann DeParle, director of the White House Office of Health Reform, said the president isn’t “concerned” about the potential legal challenges. Congress has the “inherent authority” to mandate coverage under the commerce clause that allows the federal government to regulate interstate commerce, she told Bloomberg Television yesterday.

The historic health-care bill, which the House passed March 21 after 13 months of debate and discord, marks the biggest expansion of health coverage since enactment of Medicaid and Medicare in 1965. Obama signed it into law today.

Legislation Amendments

The House on March 21 also passed legislation amending the overhaul, expanding the number of those who will be covered by insurance and raising the total cost to $940 billion. The Senate is scheduled to take up these amendments this week. The package of bills would increase the number of Americans insured by 32 million, raising the portion of people under the age of 64 with insurance to about 94 percent.

The bills raise the threshold for people to qualify for Medicaid to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, which was $22,050 for a family of four and $10,830 for an individual for the 48 contiguous states in 2009, according to guidelines set by the Department of Health and Human Services.

The biggest challenge states face is dealing with a program where the growth in annual spending regularly exceeds the growth in state revenue, said Smith of Health Management Associates.

“It has been a very, very difficult period for the states,” Smith said. “They had to cut spending at a time when significantly more people needed it.”

Falling State Revenue

Most states have confronted drops in revenue since the beginning of the recession in late 2007 as tax collections fell for an unprecedented fifth straight quarter by the end of December last year, according to the Nelson A. Rockefeller Institute of Government in Albany, New York. In the first nine months of 2009, states suffered the biggest decline in revenue ever recorded.

In fiscal 2009, Medicaid enrollment increased a record 3.29 million nationally, with another rise of 1.29 million the year before, based on reports compiled for the Kaiser foundation.

Medicaid spending accounts for about 22 percent of state spending, according to the National Governors Association, which said it doesn’t expect revenue to return to pre-recession levels until at least 2014. Budget directors estimate the fiscal 2011 budget gap could expand to $102 billion and may even reach $180 billion, the Kaiser study said. States by law, unlike Washington, must balance their budgets.

“In the past, Medicaid was only as strong as its weakest link,” said Stephen Somers, president of the health-policy nonprofit Center for Health Care Strategies Inc. in Hamilton, New Jersey. “ Now, there is the first universal floor and it will form the foundation for universal coverage.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Pat Wechsler in New York at pwechsler@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: March 23, 2010 16:30 EDT

ToxicAvenger

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2010, 03:05:13 PM »
hey ...i dont personally want life insurance...but i'm gonna be forced to buy it ...so i'm paying for others...

in pakistan we gave beggars charity but once in a while when in a bad mood...it ws ok to kick the living crap out of one and no one minded...

does this also apply here?

i can then just call it 'therapy' :)
carpe` vaginum!

JohnC1908

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2010, 11:00:31 PM »
I gave you the link to the Gallup poll which was just done yesterday

if you want Rasmussen go find it yourself

Way over your head dude. Rasmussen polls likely voters...gallup polls everyone. Now which one should I be concerned about?

Straw Man

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2010, 07:38:40 AM »
Way over your head dude. Rasmussen polls likely voters...gallup polls everyone. Now which one should I be concerned about?

Again - the link I gave was a poll that was done the day I posted it.
It was the most timely info available and showed that the statement "the majority of the country does not want this" was a lie.

If you have a Rasmussin poll taken in the last 48 hours then post it

Dos Equis

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Re: [Ten] state attorneys general ready to file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 12:51:29 PM »
This does not support your contention that "the repubs [sued] to prevent them from being counted in paper backup format- yes, that was the case.  They are still sealed to this day.  Repubs then sued to ahve them DESTROYED."

According to your link, this was a suit filed by the "King Lincoln Bronzeville Neighborhood Association."  Doesn't sound like "Republicans" to me.  Also, they sued to have ballots preserved, not destroyed.  Did you actually read the link?

Bump.   :)

Straw Man

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2010, 11:58:43 PM »
I though Repubs were against frivolous lawsuits?

drkaje

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2010, 04:47:00 AM »
hey ...i dont personally want life insurance...but i'm gonna be forced to buy it ...so i'm paying for others...

in pakistan we gave beggars charity but once in a while when in a bad mood...it ws ok to kick the living crap out of one and no one minded...

does this also apply here?

i can then just call it 'therapy' :)

A lot of people need care to stay alive. Obviously, need ≠ right but somebody's got to pay and it may as well be people like you. :)

Dos Equis

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Re: [Fourteen] state attorneys general file lawsuit on health care bill
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2010, 12:01:27 PM »
Napolitano: Supreme Court to Strike Down Obamacare
Friday, 26 Mar 2010     
By: David A. Patten

President Barack Obama is one of the worst presidents ever in terms of respecting constitutional limitations on government, and the states suing the federal government over healthcare reform "have a pretty strong case" and are likely to prevail, according to author and judicial analyst Andrew P. Napolitano.

In an exclusive interview with Newsmax.TV's Ashley Martella, Napolitano says the president's healthcare reforms amount to "commandeering" the state legislatures for federal purposes, which the Supreme Court has forbidden as unconstitutional.

"The Constitution does not authorize the Congress to regulate the state governments," Napolitano says. "Nevertheless, in this piece of legislation, the Congress has told the state governments that they must modify their regulation of certain areas of healthcare, they must surrender their regulation of other areas of healthcare, and they must spend state taxpayer-generated dollars in a way that the Congress wants it done.
Special: Do You Back Obama's Healthcare Plan? Vote Here Now!

"That's called commandeering the legislature," he says. "That's the Congress taking away the discretion of the legislature with respect to regulation, and spending taxpayer dollars. That's prohibited in a couple of Supreme Court cases. So on that argument, the attorneys general have a pretty strong case and I think they will prevail.”

Napolitano, author of his just-released “Lies the Government Told You: Myth, Power, and Deception in American History” and a Fox News senior judicial analyst, is the youngest Superior Court judge ever to attain lifetime tenure in the state of New Jersey. He served on the bench from 1987 to 1995.

Napolitano tells Newsmax that the longstanding precedent of state regulation of the healthcare industry makes the new federal regulations that much more problematic.

"The Supreme Court has ruled that in areas of human behavior that are not delegated to the Congress in the Constitution, and that have been traditionally regulated by the states, the Congress can't simply move in there," Napolitano says. "And the states for 230 years have had near exclusive regulation over the delivery of healthcare. The states license hospitals. The states license medications. The states license healthcare providers whether they're doctors, nurses, or pharmacists. The feds have had nothing to do with it.

"The Congress can't simply wake up one day and decide that it wants to regulate this. I predict that the Supreme Court will invalidate major portions of what the president just signed into law…"

The judge also says he would rate President Obama as one of the worst presidents in terms of obedience to constitutional limitations.

"I believe we have a one party system in this country, called the big-government party," Napolitano says. "There is a Republican branch that likes war and deficits and assaulting civil liberties. There is a Democratic branch that likes welfare and taxes and assaulting commercial liberties.

"President Obama obviously is squarely within the Democratic branch. The president who had the least fidelity to the Constitution was Abraham Lincoln, who waged war on half the country, even though there's obviously no authority for that, a war that killed nearly 700,000 people. President Obama is close to that end of lacking fidelity to the Constitution. He wants to outdo his hero FDR."

For those who oppose healthcare, the Fox legal expert says, the bad news is that many of the legal challenges to healthcare reform will have to wait until 2014, when the changes become fully operational.

Until then, there would be no legal case that individuals had been actually harmed by the law. Moreover, Napolitano says it takes an average of four years for a case to work its way through the various federal courts the final hearing that's expected to come before the Supreme Court.

"You're talking about 2018, which is eight years from now, before it is likely the Supreme Court will hear this," he says.

. . . .
http://newsmax.com/Headline/Andrew-Napolitano-barack-obama/2010/03/26/id/354008