Jeb Bush speaks out against Ariz. law

[loco]

EXACTLY THE POINT WERE TRYING TO MAKE!!!!!!!!!

you need to secure the borders AS WELL as deport illegals AS WELL as go after companies that hire them...

And I'm all for that, but this new law is not the way to go about it.  Unless you start asking all American residents for proof of status, then it would not be unfair to Latinos.

[George Whorewell]

Loco no offense, but I don't think that the charter members of MS13 made their immigration status a matter of public record. As the article you posted above alluded to, it doesn't matter if they were here legally or not. The bottom line is that now ( mostly due to the joke that has become the enforcement of American Immigration laws) illegal MS13 gang members are a problem.

[tonymctones]

Okay, I was wrong about hem being native born American citizens.  But were they illegal immigrants, green card holders, or Naturalized American citizens?

iono about the founders but the very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that many in the gang are illegals...you think these guys have day jobs? you think they will up and leave if they cant find legit work?

[tonymctones]

And I'm all for that, but this new law is not the way to go about it.  Unless you start asking all American residents for proof of status, then it would not be unfair to Latinos.

NOOOO IT WOULDNT b/c this law is not based on race...

if it said that all latinos or latino looking ppl must present papers upon request then it would target latinos...

what you cant seem to come to grips with loco is that the majority VAST majority of illegals in this country are mexican.

[loco]

iono about the founders but the very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that many in the gang are illegals...you think these guys have day jobs? you think they will up and leave if they cant find legit work?

No, but the great majority of illegals will leave voluntarily if you stop hiring them.  Funny how you guys are lumping together all the gang members with the cheap labor immigrants.  

[Soul Crusher]

The two are often intertwined and are in the same communities and travel in the same circles.   There are many areas in this country where you wont even hear a word of English spoken. 

Imagine if in Venzuela there were large swaths of illegal Chinese who refuses to learn spanish, but had lots of Triads and gangs, dealing dope, demanding rights, etc etc from within? 

[tonymctones]

No, but the great majority of illegals will leave voluntarily if you stop hiring them.  Funny how you guys are lumping together all the gang members with the cheap labor immigrants.  

im not lumping anybody in with them...

but many of the gang members are cheap labor immigrants... take it from a person who has worked in manual labor in one of the biggest immigrant cities in the country...

again how would you find the illegals if youre not able to ask for proof of citizenship?

[loco]

iono about the founders but the very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that many in the gang are illegals...you think these guys have day jobs? you think they will up and leave if they cant find legit work?

The very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that you are already dealing with this problem using current laws, without the need for Arizona's new law.

[George Whorewell]

Just for the record, all of this unpleasantness could have been avoided more than 25 years ago. Texas tried to pass a law which prevented the children of illegals from receiving free public schooling. The court of appeals struck the law by a slim margin, but think about it- By preventing basic services to illegals and enforcing the immigration laws on the books, why would any of them come to this country? If that court decision had gone differently similar legislation was sure to follow and by now illegals would get zilch from the tax payer.

Of course bleeding hearts prevailed in TX and today we are still paying the price.  

[tonymctones]

The very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that you are already dealing with this problem using current laws, without the need for Arizona's new law.

LOL SO WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THEM TO BREAK THE LAW BEFORE WE CAN DEPORT THEM FOR BREAKING THE LAW?

does that make sense to you?

[tonymctones]

LOL SO WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THEM TO BREAK THE LAW BEFORE WE CAN DEPORT THEM FOR BREAKING THE LAW?

does that make sense to you?

I should clarify,

we have to wait for them to commit another crime before we can punish them for commiting the first crime?

[loco]

LOL SO WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THEM TO BREAK THE LAW BEFORE WE CAN DEPORT THEM FOR BREAKING THE LAW?

does that make sense to you?

You have to wait for gang members to break the law?  That's not a long wait, is it?

[tonymctones]

You have to wait for gang members to break the law?  That's not a long wait, is it?

lol you twist and turn loco...

thats not the point...if they are in this country illegally they are ALREADY BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so youre stance is as long as you dont break any other laws its ok to break the first one?

[tonymctones]

You have to wait for gang members to break the law?  That's not a long wait, is it?

if we found them and deported them b/c of the first law they broke we wouldnt need to wait for them to kill someone, sell drugs, beat someone up, extort someone, rape women, recruit young kids...

[loco]

lol you twist and turn loco...

thats not the point...if they are in this country illegally they are ALREADY BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so youre stance is as long as you dont break any other laws its ok to break the first one?

if we found them and deported them b/c of the first law they broke we wouldnt need to wait for them to kill someone, sell drugs, beat someone up, extort someone, rape women, recruit young kids...

Then we get back to my point.  Why bring up Latino gang members with no jobs who kill and deal drugs when it looks like you are already dealing with them by your current laws, without the new Arizona law?

So the new Arizona law is for dealing with illegal immigrants hired by Americans who don't kill and don't deal drugs?

[loco]

Loco your not very up on your gang history are you?

MS13 was  started by a bunch of El Salvadorians in LA ( most were here illegally) that had fought as left wing guerrellas in the military coup that happened in El Salvador during the early 80's. There have been numerous stories posted on this board outlining how some cities ( like San Francisco) have actually arrested MS13 members that were in the country illegally but refused to turn them over to ICE and eventually let them go. There have been dozens of cases where deported MS 13 members have snuck back across the border and arrested again. In El Salvador today MS 13 is almost as powerful as the Central government of the country itself. They are also one of the most powerful gangs in the US prison system and they work hand in hand with the Mexican Cartels to bring drugs and weapons into this country. Dealing with an extremely violent international gun and drug trafficking criminal enterprise with a large number of members being in the US illegally through domestic criminal law is a stupid idea. It's almost as stupid as using criminal domestic law to deal with terrorism.  

If MS13 members are in prison and many have been deported, it's evident that you are already dealing with them through existing domestic criminal law, without the need for Arizona's new law.

[Soul Crusher]

No we are not.  Our border is like a sive. 

[loco]

No we are not.  Our border is like a sive. 

How is the new Arizona law dealing with the border?

[Soul Crusher]

Its part of it since the illegals coming over and committing crimes are more likely to go to other sectors for crossing. 

[tonymctones]

Then we get back to my point.  Why bring up Latino gang members with no jobs who kill and deal drugs when it looks like you are already dealing with them by your current laws, without the new Arizona law?

So the new Arizona law is for dealing with illegal immigrants hired by Americans who don't kill and don't deal drugs?

LOL no bro many gang members are day laborers as well...

the new arizona laws is dealing with illegal immigrants it doesnt differentiate between gang members and non gang members...it deals with illegal the KEY TERM BEING ILLEGAL immigrants...

I didnt bring up gang members bro Im just correcting your misconceptions about them but as I can see from your view of this law, your refusal to educate yourself on it, and your refusal to stop citing factually wrong talking points of those opposed to it...I can see that my time has been wasted...

have fun bro...

[loco]

Its part of it since the illegals coming over and committing crimes are more likely to go to other sectors for crossing. 

Sorry!  I don't understand!  Which part of Arizona's new law deals with the border?  Arizona's law may get them detained and later deported, but how is it going to stop them at the border when they come back, and they will come back.

[loco]

LOL no bro many gang members are day laborers as well...

the new arizona laws is dealing with illegal immigrants it doesnt differentiate between gang members and non gang members...it deals with illegal the KEY TERM BEING ILLEGAL immigrants...

I didnt bring up gang members bro Im just correcting your misconceptions about them but as I can see from your view of this law, your refusal to educate yourself on it, and your refusal to stop citing factually wrong talking points of those opposed to it...I can see that my time has been wasted...

have fun bro...

iono about the founders but the very fact that their gang members are being deported shows that many in the gang are illegals...you think these guys have day jobs? you think they will up and leave if they cant find legit work?

[Soul Crusher]

Sorry!  I don't understand!  Which part of Arizona's new law deals with the border?  Arizona's law may get them detained and later deported, but how is it going to stop them at the border when they come back, and they will come back.

Its going to discourage it, not stop it.   

[Benny B]

  I love this place.  We'd have fun debating and drinking together.

Why don't you two get a hotel room and share your love for one another? 

[Soul Crusher]

All the rooms are taken up and booked for you, KC, Blacken, and mons.