Author Topic: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border  (Read 3353 times)

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2010, 09:58:52 AM »
Because this is not a murder case and most of these things are handled with civil fines and injunctions like they got against the guy.  

Actually, currently, the maximum penalty for conviction on a charge of voter intimidation under federal guidelines is a fine and/or no more than one year in prison.

dario73

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2010, 10:19:16 AM »
Epic thread backfire. Must be 20-3 in favor of the "neo-nazi group".

Straw Man

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2010, 10:37:34 AM »
Epic thread backfire. Must be 20-3 in favor of the "neo-nazi group".

you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?

my only comment on the group was that it was not suprising they were patrolling the boarder since the person who wrote the bill has ties to neo-nazi and white supremecist groups

http://www.bloggernews.net/124388

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/white-supremacists-brag-they-helped-s

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2010, 10:38:48 AM »
you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?

my only comment on the group was that it was not suprising they were patrolling the boarder since the person who wrote the bill has ties to neo-nazi and white supremecist groups

http://www.bloggernews.net/124388

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/white-supremacists-brag-they-helped-s

Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior? 

dario73

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2010, 10:44:53 AM »
you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?

Did you read the entire thread?  It's ok. Take your time. We know you are slow.

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2010, 10:45:35 AM »
Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior?  

see, I may not agree with extreme views, but our constitution says everyone is allowed to have them.  if someone wants to feel that way, so be it.  As long as they break no laws, hey, have a nice life.  it's america.

so whether it's black panthers or KKK... I disagree with them, but if they follow the law, what can you do.

Straw Man

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2010, 10:51:53 AM »
Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior? 

I'd say no

same goes for abortion protestors or any other group I don't agree with

as long as they are not breaking any laws then it doesn't matter to me until they start breaking laws.

that doesn't mean I'm in favor of their group or even what they are doing (though in this case I'm neutral on what they are doing)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2010, 10:53:08 AM »
I'd say no

same goes for abortion protestors or any other group I don't agree with

as long as they are not breaking any laws then it doesn't matter to me until they start breaking laws.

that doesn't mean I'm in favor of their group or even what they are doing (though in this case I'm neutral on what they are doing)

Fair enough. 

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2010, 10:55:26 AM »
this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.

Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case.  Freedom of religion, like it or not.  What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?

As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there.  It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2010, 11:01:24 AM »
this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.

Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case.  Freedom of religion, like it or not.  What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?

As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there.  It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...

240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go.  this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.

legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear.  do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?     

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2010, 11:12:32 AM »
240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go.  this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.

legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear.  do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?     

Hey, youre right about all of this.  I'm sure ppl are irate.

I'm just saying that constitutionally - it involves telling a religion they can't practice there, because they're not popular. 

So to me, it's ironic that 'unpopular' religions are denied their rights- by people who want to restore the constitution.  I can see if the lib white house was trying to pick/choose which religions could practice where... but for the right to do it?  odd.

Straw Man

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2010, 11:15:40 AM »
Fair enough. 

I'll add that I think neo-nazis (or any similar group) acting as de-facto law enforcement in this capacity (border patrol) is probably a recipe for disaster but maybe that's just my preconceived prejudice about nazi's

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2010, 11:18:17 AM »
I'll add that I think neo-nazis (or any similar group) acting as de-facto law enforcement in this capacity (border patrol) is probably a recipe for disaster but maybe that's just my preconceived prejudice about nazi's

What about neighborhood watch organizations? 

Agnostic007

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2010, 11:28:53 AM »
After reading the entire article, I am left with only one question...



WTF do they have gas masks for??? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Straw Man

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2010, 11:33:53 AM »
What about neighborhood watch organizations? 

I can't think of any activity in this country where being a nazi would be anything except a potential for problems

kcballer

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2010, 11:45:25 AM »
240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go.  this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.

legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear.  do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?     

I think it's the ultimate show of freedom in the United States.  It shows that we believe in freedom above all else including prejudice against Islam.  I'm all for it actually and think it's a great idea.  I believe it's going to be like a YMCA with a gym and other facilities.  Probably get some good HG gear in there too from the Arabs bringing it over from the Middle East.
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2010, 02:25:39 PM »
I think it's the ultimate show of freedom in the United States.  It shows that we believe in freedom above all else including prejudice against Islam.  I'm all for it actually and think it's a great idea.  I believe it's going to be like a YMCA with a gym and other facilities.  Probably get some good HG gear in there too from the Arabs bringing it over from the Middle East.

I might agree with you if the imam running this had a history of that, but thats' not the case here KC.     

pro nitrousADRL

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2010, 10:26:43 PM »
Quote
I'm just saying that constitutionally - it involves telling a religion they can't practice there, because they're not popular.
 

ok  then tell every religion that they cant practice there what so ever   turn it into a fucking del friscos steak house.   then its not being bias to any religion
down with hussein

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2010, 01:31:47 AM »
ok  then tell every religion that they cant practice there what so ever   turn it into a fucking del friscos steak house.   then its not being bias to any religion

that would be fairer.  Zone it or whatever, for no religious group.

The moment we can 'pick and choose' which churches can go where... holy crap, we take a HUGE step back constitutionally. 

33, you know the law better than any of us - how do you address this constitutionally?

drkaje

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2010, 04:04:21 AM »
Maybe if they shoot enough of them the invasion will stop.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2010, 04:40:51 AM »
that would be fairer.  Zone it or whatever, for no religious group.

The moment we can 'pick and choose' which churches can go where... holy crap, we take a HUGE step back constitutionally. 

33, you know the law better than any of us - how do you address this constitutionally?

Its up to the planning boards and zoning boards.  Most have a lot of discretion in these matters but have to go according to what is known as a "Master Plan" which often sets the zoning laws etc.  In this case, the planning board ok's the mosque over the objections of the residents, which has caused an uproar because usually the zoning of board of appeals is supposed to consider input from the community and the effect on the surrounding area.     

Fury

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2010, 04:54:05 AM »
this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.

Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case.  Freedom of religion, like it or not.  What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?

As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there.  It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...

The people who are against it know they have the right to build one there. It has more to do with the question, "Why there?" Why, of all places, do they need to put a mosque at the place where the religion that the mosque represents killed 3,000+ people?

Even the Washington Post, liberal rag that it is, has come out and said it's not right to put one there. Mosques are built as a sign of Islamic supremacism (hence why thousands have been built over churches, temples and other houses of worship) and this mosque is a perfect example of that. Rubbing it in our faces after they've already killed 3,000+ people.

And while the mosque is a bad idea, the major problem is the guy leading the building of it, a man who is on paper calling for the establishment of Sharia Law in America, refuses to denounce terrorism, is not in favor of inter-faith dialogue, has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, refuses to say where the financing for this $100m project is coming from (he says from American donors in English and then says it will be foreign funded in Arabic) and so and so on. His wife says that this center will help non-Muslims integrate (not the other way around). Integrate into what? Sharia Law.

It's just ridiculously distasteful, even down to the name of the project. And polling shows that Americans are against it by a 2:1 margin.

240 is Back

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Re: Neo-Nazi Group Patrolling Ariz. Border
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2010, 05:33:47 AM »
i agree with ya BZ.... and i know ppl are against it.

I'm just looking at the constitutional argument (from the right) that the govt has zero business interfering with anything religion (or in this case, selective enforcement).

If a catholic church wanted to go up there, they'd be allowed.

So while you KNOW i'm not defending the ppl trying to put in this mosque - I'm just addressing the argument that those on the right are willing to trample the constitution in this case - because they don't like who is trying to enjoy its rights.