Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest

[Mons Venus]

Fox News co-owner funding NYC Mosque !!!!!

 

[Soul Crusher]

I agree with Ron Paul wrote and I made similar statements a few days ago before RP published that piece:

You really are a vile Straw.  I'm not kidding.  You don't live here and don't speak for me, or any of the other millions of people in NYC revolted by this disgrace.  

[Straw Man]

You really are a vile Straw.  I'm not kidding.  You don't live here and don't speak for me, or any of the other millions of people in NYC revolted by this disgrace.  

3333 - good grief you're dumber than a box of rocks

I never said I spoke for you nor did I say you have to agree with me.

I also said I understood and acknowledge other peoples points of view on the topic

[SAMSON123]

Is this fight over or is everyone just reloading their guns?

[OzmO]

I agree with Ron Paul wrote and I made similar statements a few days ago before RP published that piece:

Where does it end and where does it begin?  I agree in principle with what RP is saying, but what are you willing to let go and what are you willing to stand for?

Again, would you be OK with Japan building an Embassy on Ford Island?  Does being against that make you an "attack all neo con" anymore than being against this mosque?

RP statements can't be looked at as "principle" but instead political blabber. 

[24KT]

Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest
Hudson New York ^ | August 23, 2010 | Gabriel Scheinmann
________________________ ________________________ _________________

Wake up fools.  

Travel all throughout Europe and you will find many Catholic Cathedrals which were former Muslim mosques.
It's a pragmatic thing. If China were to invade the USA tomorrow, and was victorious, do you think they would tear down Yankee stadium in order to build a new baseball field?

Since when did a defunct Burlington coat factory warehouse become a former house of worship or "sacred site"?

[Fury]

Travel all throughout Europe and you will find many Catholic Cathedrals which were former Muslim mosques.

And you'll find that almost all of those mosques were originally churches before they were taken over by the Moors and the armies of the pedophile Prophet. Get the fuck out of here with your revisionist history trash.

The Great Mosque of Cordoba, arguably the pinnacle of the Moor's conquest of Spain, was built on top of a Christian Visigothic Church that was destroyed. This, along with countless other churches, temples, synagogues and the like have all been torn down, built on top of or converted to mosques over the centuries. An estimated 2,000 Hindu Temples were either destroyed or converted to mosques when the Muslims weren't busy killing 80 million Hindus in their failed conquest of India.

So don't even come slinking around here trying to fabricate history to fit your agenda.

[Straw Man]

Where does it end and where does it begin?  I agree in principle with what RP is saying, but what are you willing to let go and what are you willing to stand for?

Again, would you be OK with Japan building an Embassy on Ford Island?  Does being against that make you an "attack all neo con" anymore than being against this mosque?

RP statements can't be looked at as "principle" but instead political blabber. 

I don't see how that's even a relevent comparison

Japan is a country

We were not attacked by a country on 911 and we were not attacked by a religion

we were attacked (allegedly) by 19 individuals

The muslim community center is not an embassy (does not represent a country) and the people buidling it having nothing to do (from what I understand) with the people who a allegedly attacked us on 911

[OzmO]

I don't see how that's even a relevent comparison

Japan is a country

We were not attacked by a country on 911 and we were not attacked by a religion

we were attacked (allegedly) by 19 individuals

The muslim community center is not an embassy (does not represent a country) and the people buidling it having nothing to do (from what I understand) with the people who a allegedly attacked us on 911

We weren't, we were attacked by a group of terrorists obviously funded and trained by a third party in the name of Islam.  A muslim community center that close to GZ is symbolically similar to Japan putting an embassy on Ford Island.  If it was simply a criminal act your argument would carry weight. 

[Straw Man]

We weren't, we were attacked by a group of terrorists obviously funded and trained by a third party in the name of Islam.  A muslim community center that close to GZ is symbolically similar to Japan putting an embassy on Ford Island.  If it was simply a criminal act your argument would carry weight.  

an embassy the official office of one country in the capital of another country

the muslim cultural center is in no way the equivalent of an embassy and the people behind it (to the best of my knowledge) have nothing to do with the people (and groups who funded and supported them) on 911

your argument seems to be (and please correct me if I misunderstand you) that any muslim is the equivalent of the muslims who allegedly attacked us on 911

[SAMSON123]

Travel all throughout Europe and you will find many Catholic Cathedrals which were former Muslim mosques.
It's a pragmatic thing. If China were to invade the USA tomorrow, and was victorious, do you think they would tear down Yankee stadium in order to build a new baseball field?

Since when did a defunct Burlington coat factory warehouse become a former house of worship or "sacred site"?

Since 3 said it was.... I guess that makes it so...go figure.

BTW...Most people do not realize that those Catholic cathedrals were actually Freemsaon Temples before they were claimed as Christian...That is why there is no reference to Jesus or anything Biblical inside. The images on the stain glass windows are images of Freemason members, the outside of the "cathedrals" are covered with Gargoyles and Demonic statues...what does that have to do with Christ, God or the Bible? The Catholics look upon Mary (Jesus Mother) as Holy, yet NEVER mention Jesus name at all. The Pope is called the Holy Father, which in short means the Catholics look at the Pope as GOD and not the REAL GOD as GOD. Every now and then you will see a image of a blond haired man with blue eye paraded around as Jesus, but that is the image of Caesar Borgia who was the son of the Alexander Borgia who was the sixth pope of Rome. Caesar was a pedophile and homosexual who was despised and he had a sister named Lucretia Borgia who gave new meaning to a SINFUL LIFE. Also the fake image you may see suspended in Catholic cathedrals is NOT JESUS it is a man named Maitrea who they (Freemasons and unknowing Catholics) worship as a GOD. You will notice that he doesn't have a crown of thorns on his head, but rather a round hat and a solar sun sign behind his head, which represents Babylonian worship.

[SAMSON123]

Building Mosques on Sacred Sites of Defeated Enemies a Symbol of Conquest
Hudson New York ^ | August 23, 2010 | Gabriel Scheinmann

________________________ ________________________ ____________

Behind the real issue behind the controversy that has erupted over plans to build a 15-story cultural center, mosque and madrassa a few yards from Ground Zero is not only about the mysterious funding behind the Cordoba Center initiative, or whether or not its founders and backers have malign intentions. It is primarily about understanding how Muslims across the world, in particular Islamists, would view the conversion of the site of the greatest Muslim attack on U.S. soil into a Muslim house of worship. Given the long history of mosque-building following Muslim military victories, the building of the Cordoba House on Ground Zero will be seen in the same light as the Muslim conquests of Mecca, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. Whereas Americans hope that the attacks on New York City and Washington are seen as the clarion's call for aggressive American action to counter Islamist ideology, the construction of the Ground Zero Mosque will be seen by the same Islamists as its first step towards the decline of America.

Bin Laden and his Islamists would love nothing better to plant the flag of Islam in the cultural capital of the West. This would not be read in the Muslim world as a sign of the West's tolerance, but of its weakness. In its long history of conquest, Islam has habitually converted the scared shrines of its enemies into mosques and madrasas. A cursory look at the world's most famous mosques lays bare the fact that many were former houses of worships of defeated enemies.

Islam's most sacred site, al-Kaaba, in Mecca was a pagan shrine that predated Islam by hundreds of years. Mohammed himself, after his army's conquest of Mecca in 630, destroyed hundreds of idols, proclaiming the truth of his new religion, and, since, it has become the hub of the annual Muslim pilgrimage, hajj, and a core pillar of Islam. Following the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, the Ummayad Caliphate proceeded to build the Dome of the Rock, the Masjid Qubat al-Sakhra, on top of the Jewish Temple Mount in 689. Inscribed on the inner walls of the shrine are clear warnings to Christianity, professing Islamic supremacy. Sprawled on the inner octagonal arcade, flowing counterclockwise, the dedication warns Christians and Jews to "not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth" and threatens the Christian Trinity by insisting that "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God."[1] Whoever believes that God had a son, "whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!"[2] Having defeated their Christian enemies, the Umayyads built a grand mosque on top of Judaism's most sacred site that contained a clear declaration of Muslim supremacy over their brother Abrahamic religions.

Similar conversions were ordered as the Muslim conquests expanded across Africa and Europe. The Grand Mosque of Damascus, also known as the Umayyad Mosque, was converted from a church dedicated to John the Baptist in 705. The world-renown Hagia Sophia in Istanbul was a thousand year-old Christian church before being transformed into a mosque following the Ottoman conquest of Constantinople in 1453. It was only converted into a museum in 1935 by ultra-secularist and Turkish founding father Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Over the long history of Muslim territorial advance, thousands of mosques, from Spain to India, were built on sites of important religious or political value to their defeated foes.

Supporters of the project might argue that the actions of invading Muslim armies over a millennia ago are irrelevant to the issue at hand in lower Manhattan. However, it is impossible to separate the recent decline of such a trend with the parallel decline and territorial recession of Muslim lands in the second half of the second millennium. Moreover, recent territories that have returned to Muslim rule following decolonization have seen the return of the conversions of religious sites into mosques. Muammar Qaddafi, the ruler of Libya, converted 78 synagogues into mosques in the 1970s.[3] In 1975, the Great Synagogue of Oran was confiscated by the Algerian government and similarly transformed.

Proponents like to cite the namesake of the Cordoba House complex as evidence of its goal of tolerance and pluralism, referring to the relative tolerant attitude of Muslim Spain to its Jewish and Christian minorities. Those proponents, however, should recall that the Great Mosque, or Mezquita, of Cordoba was itself a Visigoth Church that was converted and rebuilt as a mosque following Muslim conquest in 784, lasting nearly 500 years before it was recaptured and converted back into a Catholic cathedral.

Both survivors and the families of the victims of the September 11 attacks, as well as most prideful New Yorkers, have strongly objected to what they see at best as an insensitive project to, at worst, a malicious broadside against those who suffered tremendously on that day and since.

It has even divided the organized Jewish community, pitting a vehemently supportive J Street against a nuancedly opposed Anti-Defamation League. The mosque, run by the Cordoba House, claims to be promoting the project not only for functional reasons, but also for civilizational ones. Its supporters say that its aim is to use the 9/11 tragedy and the location of the Ground Zero Mosque as a message of tolerance and compromise in America. By hoping that Americans would never buy into the "Us against Them" rhetoric espoused by Islamists, supporters are seeking to demonstrate the superiority of Western culture and liberalism. The fact that this is even a debate in America demonstrates American tolerance; it is illegal to build a church or synagogue anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

American government officials have been divided over the plan, with Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Congressman Jerrold Nadler, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, Governor Deval Patrick, and, most recently, President Obama himself in support and many local and national politicians, including Senators John McCain, Joseph Lieberman, and Olympia Snowe, Congressman Peter King, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, and former Governors Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin, in opposition.


But the symbolism could not be clearer: If the Cordoba's House supporters seek to emulate the tolerance of al-Andalus, the Arabic term for Muslim Spain, they are unwittingly declaring their possible acceptance of Muslim rule.

[1] http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html
[2] http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/DoTR.html
[3] http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=5&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=623&PID=0&IID=1901&TTL=The_Final_Exodus_of_the_Libyan_Jews_in_1967


________________________ ________________________ ________________

Wake up fools. 

3 How is this any different than america building military bases in countries it has had a hand in defeating or causing civil wars? There are american military bases all over Europe, Japan, South Pacific, various African nations, Middle Easter nations etc etc and with it has come the introduction of so called democracy or attempts to force it; has come americas FAKE CHRISTIANITY, has come its drugs and violence, has come it weapons and divisive tactics to get a nation embroiled in civil wars... Maybe you should refocus your anger onto the REAL ENEMY OF THE WORLD.

[Bindare_Dundat]

your argument seems to be (and please correct me if I misunderstand you) that any muslim is the equivalent of the muslims who allegedly attacked us on 911

That seems to be a problem with many on this board and around the country. They don't distinguish between the two.

I have to say that although I agree with most of the other posters on matters of economics and such, the level of hysteria over this is fucking sad. I would hate to be around you guys when the shit really hits the fan, it would be like getting sucked under  water by a drowning person who's freaking right the fuck out. How can you reason with anyone who's behaving like their hair is on fire?

[24KT]

That seems to be a problem with many on this board and around the country. They don't distinguish between the two.

I have to say that although I agree with most of the other posters on matters of economics and such, the level of hysteria over this is fucking sad. I would hate to be around you guys when the shit really hits the fan, it would be like getting sucked under  water by a drowning person who's freaking right the fuck out. How can you reason with anyone who's behaving like their hair is on fire?

Turn firehoses on them? 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Turn firehoses on them?  

I think this is all pretty simple. Build the thing. If there is any true evidence of anti Americanism coming outta the place that threatens lives or the security of the country we turn the place into something sacred like a  Mc Donalds or strip joint, you know, something that everyone can agree on.

[OzmO]

an embassy the official office of one country in the capital of another country

the muslim cultural center is in no way the equivalent of an embassy and the people behind it (to the best of my knowledge) have nothing to do with the people (and groups who funded and supported them) on 911

your argument seems to be (and please correct me if I misunderstand you) that any muslim is the equivalent of the muslims who allegedly attacked us on 911

In terms of a religion it is.  Churches are to a religion as embassies are to a country.  A church and the "clergy" is a official representation of a religion much as a Embassy serves a vessel containing a representation of the country via it's ambassador(s).  The people in a Japanese Embassy may or may not have had any involvement in the attack however, they represent the country that did the attack as well as the land it now occupies.  In 9/11's case those hijackers did it in the name of Islam and murdered 3000 people.  The people running the muslim community center that provides religious services and they represent muslim community.  My argument is not that they are the equivalent of the muslims that attacked but they represent the religion they attacked in the name of.  

It doesn't even have to be true.  Maybe everyone of those hijackers and the people who sent, trained and financed them aren't religious at all.  the fact is, it's commonly accepted in NYC that 3000 were murdered in cold blood because they aren't Muslim, but instead part of the great Satan.  And now they want to erect a 13 story Muslim community center 3 blocks from were 3000 people died in there name?  Fuck that.  

As BF said, if they were interested in peace, healing etc. they wouldn't be building it there.  Even 1 mile is too close.  The symbolism is disrespectful and offensive.

This isn't about being ultra whatever, a savage head or what have you.  It about doing what's right.  And that ain't right.  

This whole idealistic crap about how its not related goes to the core reason why the "liberal Agenda" never takes hold while in so many ways the ideals are worthy.  It's because they go from common sense to complete lunacy like announcing San Fran is an open city for illegals with no penalties where cops are encouraged not to impound the cars of illegal alien unlicensed drivers or american flags are removed from fire trucks becuase they might be offense to some obscure group of people yet here we are getting a Muslim community center shoved down our throats and told its not the same thing.  And Liberals wonder why they are accused of having a mental disorder?  LOL.   Priceless.    

I bet the thing never gets built.  But then again, I am a sucker for a flush draw with middle pair.

[24KT]

In terms of a religion it is.  Churches are to a religion as embassies are to a country.  A church and the "clergy" is a official representation of a religion much as a Embassy serves a vessel containing a representation of the country via it's ambassador(s).  The people in a Japanese Embassy may or may not have had any involvement in the attack however, they represent the country that did the attack as well as the land it now occupies.  In 9/11's case those hijackers did it in the name of Islam and murdered 3000 people.  The people running the muslim community center that provides religious services and they represent muslim community.  My argument is not that they are the equivalent of the muslims that attacked but they represent the religion they attacked in the name of.  

It doesn't even have to be true.  Maybe everyone of those hijackers and the people who sent, trained and financed them aren't religious at all.  the fact is, it's commonly accepted in NYC that 3000 were murdered in cold blood because they aren't Muslim, but instead part of the great Satan.  And now they want to erect a 13 story Muslim community center 3 blocks from were 3000 people died in there name?  Fuck that.  

As BF said, if they were interested in peace, healing etc. they wouldn't be building it there.  Even 1 mile is too close.  The symbolism is disrespectful and offensive.

Symbolism is open to much interpretation.

This isn't about being ultra whatever, a savage head or what have you.  It about doing what's right.  And that ain't right.  

This whole idealistic crap about how its not related goes to the core reason why the "liberal Agenda" never takes hold while in so many ways the ideals are worthy.  It's because they go from common sense to complete lunacy like announcing San Fran is an open city for illegals with no penalties where cops are encouraged not to impound the cars of illegal alien unlicensed drivers or american flags are removed from fire trucks becuase they might be offense to some obscure group of people yet here we are getting a Muslim community center shoved down our throats and told its not the same thing.  And Liberals wonder why they are accused of having a mental disorder?  LOL.   Priceless.    

I bet the thing never gets built.  But then again, I am a sucker for a flush draw with middle pair.

Big difference. Cordoba house is not a government initiative. It is a private one, to be erected on private property. It is not being shoved down your throat, ...although the vociferous arguments against it are.

[Soul Crusher]

Symbolism is open to much interpretation.

Big difference. Cordoba house is not a government initiative. It is a private one, to be erected on private property. It is not being shoved down your throat, ...although the vociferous arguments against it are.

And Feisal is going overseas to seek funding from foreign governments for this outrage. 

[OzmO]

Symbolism is open to much interpretation.

Exactly, and how is it being interpreted in NYC?

Big difference. Cordoba house is not a government initiative. It is a private one, to be erected on private property. It is not being shoved down your throat, ...although the vociferous arguments against it are.

Exactly AGAIN, You were spot last night, its a religious initiative and as i've been saying, the group that attacked the USA was a private one who did it in the name of Allah, Islam etc.

[Soul Crusher]

Exactly, and how is it being interpreted in NYC?

Exactly AGAIN, You were spot last night, its a religious initiative and as i've been saying, the group that attacked the USA was a private one who did it in the name of Allah, Islam etc.

Ozmo - check out my thread about Obama's Cairo speech.  The Imam says clearly the the GZ mosque is meant to be an Icon for Muslims across the world. 

[Fury]

In terms of a religion it is.  Churches are to a religion as embassies are to a country.  A church and the "clergy" is a official representation of a religion much as a Embassy serves a vessel containing a representation of the country via it's ambassador(s).  The people in a Japanese Embassy may or may not have had any involvement in the attack however, they represent the country that did the attack as well as the land it now occupies.  In 9/11's case those hijackers did it in the name of Islam and murdered 3000 people.  The people running the muslim community center that provides religious services and they represent muslim community.  My argument is not that they are the equivalent of the muslims that attacked but they represent the religion they attacked in the name of.  

It doesn't even have to be true.  Maybe everyone of those hijackers and the people who sent, trained and financed them aren't religious at all.  the fact is, it's commonly accepted in NYC that 3000 were murdered in cold blood because they aren't Muslim, but instead part of the great Satan.  And now they want to erect a 13 story Muslim community center 3 blocks from were 3000 people died in there name?  Fuck that.  

As BF said, if they were interested in peace, healing etc. they wouldn't be building it there.  Even 1 mile is too close.  The symbolism is disrespectful and offensive.

This isn't about being ultra whatever, a savage head or what have you.  It about doing what's right.  And that ain't right.  

This whole idealistic crap about how its not related goes to the core reason why the "liberal Agenda" never takes hold while in so many ways the ideals are worthy.  It's because they go from common sense to complete lunacy like announcing San Fran is an open city for illegals with no penalties where cops are encouraged not to impound the cars of illegal alien unlicensed drivers or american flags are removed from fire trucks becuase they might be offense to some obscure group of people yet here we are getting a Muslim community center shoved down our throats and told its not the same thing.  And Liberals wonder why they are accused of having a mental disorder?  LOL.   Priceless.    

I bet the thing never gets built.  But then again, I am a sucker for a flush draw with middle pair.

Well said. And we're all occasional suckers for flush draws with mid pair.