the importance of both heavy weight and high reps.

[BIG ACH]

Yep I try to do a little bit of both!  Although a tad bit more of higher reps - just found that I respond better that way!

[Tapeworm]

wrong. you dont get injured by going heavy, you get injured by training incorrectly- whether its improper form, improper warm up, lack of stretching, etc.  you wont grow much at all after a while if you never go below 8 reps, simply because the weight your using will not be increasing quick enough, if its increasing any at all.

Sure, I'm guilty of those sins too but I've found I really have to listen to my body.  Seems like I get injured at the drop of a hat these days, which leads to down time and lost income.  I wish I wasn't so damn delicate but it's the hand I've been delt.

[tbombz]

injury prone=disease of the mind..  reality, especially your body, is controlled by your perception of it. 

[tbombz]

the importance of both heavy weights and high reps should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.

im serious about this..   everybody should be doing both lower and higher reps every time they train...  

 going heavy doesnt mean using bad form, or trying to hit a personal record, or going to failure, it just means that you do a few sets with a weight that is 70-90% of your 1rep max..  stop a few reps shy of failure on every set if you feel you need to(thats what i usually do). justr work with heavy weights.

 doing high reps doesnt mean doing burnouts or drop sets or fatiguing the muscle. choose a weight that is 25-50% of 1 rep max and do a few sets with it.. on each set, just rep it till you start to feel it burn a little bit and stop.

[PJim]

injury prone=disease of the mind..  reality, especially your body, is controlled by your perception of it. 

 No, no, no, reality is the arbiter of the mind not the other way around . I don't agree with the high reps at all, it is only a tool to allow you to adjust intensity so that you don't overload the muscle in say 1 rep and cause an injury. All this bullshit people are on about Dorian's style being useless because the tears suddenly negate its credibility is stupid and small minded. That's like saying Hitler had a moustache, so now everybody possessing one will automatically be  evil. Dorian's outlook is very close to ideal training, he just developed fear and uncertainty of shrinking if he were to leave a minor injury to heal. He touched on this, he says he didn't practice what he preached at times.

[tbombz]

No, no, no, reality is the arbiter of the mind not the other way around . I don't agree with the high reps at all, it is only a tool to allow you to adjust intensity so that you don't overload the muscle in say 1 rep and cause an injury. All this bullshit people are on about Dorian's style being useless because the tears suddenly negate its credibility is stupid and small minded. That's like saying Hitler had a moustache, so now everybody possessing one will automatically be  evil. Dorian's outlook is very close to ideal training, he just developed fear and uncertainty of shrinking if he were to leave a minor injury to heal. He touched on this, he says he didn't practice what he preached at times.

dorian would agree with me, he always did high reps in the fashion i described. he didnt always do them after he did the heavy sets, mostly just before as a way to warm up, but he did a lot of warming up. im not talking about doing tons of sets of high reps, trying to build stamina and fatiguing the muscles..  just a few good sets in the higher rep range, coupled with some sets in the low rep range. total volume may vary from individual, or may rotate in a cyclical manner. other variables that can be periodized : failure/sub failure, exercise selection, total volume (i know i already said it but ill say it again .  the one constant is progressive overload in both low reps and high reps.

and oh ya, your wrong about the nature of reality.

[gh15]

what you fellas need to remember is,,that you can work super heavy but it doesnt always mean bigger muscle,,the fellas with the strongest tendoin and bones lift the heavier weights ,,more than the ones with big muscle,,you do need a good combo of both to be superb bodybuilder,,but if you look around you in the gym mr joe moboy that sits 9% 190lb 6feet never train heavy and yet he show great shape and very nice muscle correct? so the key is work as heavy as possible for you for bodybuilding,,then again some fellas like to lift heavy as in LIKE to lift heavy im one of them,,so thoe fellas do it because they LIKE lifting heavy they like to see the poundage being lifted ,,they just like lifting very heavy which i support as long as you know what you are doing,,

now,,WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU BE ON HORMONES WHILE LIFTING HEAVY ,,and WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU EAT YOUR ICECREAM AT NIGHT AND YOUR HOURLY CALORIC NEEDS WHEN ON GH ,,BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTER,, IF YOU DO NOT EAT YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY ON GH YOU WILL LOSE BF TOO FAST,,AND THEN NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIFT YOU WONT LOOK LIKE BODYBUILDER BUT MORE OF A FIT FITNESS GUY THAT IS LIFTING WEIGHT AND IN REAL GOOD SHAPE,,

ON HGH YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT,, YOU HAVE NO COICE BECAUSE BODY WILL GO ON STRIKE ON YOU IF YOU DONT ,,IT JUST GONNA MAKE YOU WANT TO SLEEP IF YOU DONT,,YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAT ON HGH,,YE ICECREAM TOO ,,YES DONUTS TOO,,YES ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AS LONG AS ITS NOT COMPLETELY OIL OF BUNCH OF USLESS CHOCOLATS,,BUT ICECREASM PIZZA BURGER SUSHI QUAlITY WEIGHT GAINER ,,JANAICA N ANYTHING AND KEEP RATIOS KNOWN TO YOU AS BODYBUILDER,,BUT HAVE TO EAT EAT EAT,,

THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BURNING FAT TOO FAST AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT IT IS ON HGH IF YOU DONT EAT ALL THE TIME

THE REASON MICHAEL PHELPS SAID HE WAS EATING 10K CALIRES A DAY OR 12K IS BECAUSE HE IS ON HGH , NOT ON MEGA AAS BUT HGH ,,NOW PUT A BODYBUILDER ON MEGA DOSES AAS AND HGH ESPECIALLY HIGHER DOSES...AND IF YOU DONT EAT YOUR ICECREAM YOU SIMPLY WONT USE THE HGH TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL,,

make sure gh is legit: )

gh15 approved

[gh15]

you know those kidos you see in highschool at 17,,they eat whatever they eat junk all day long and yet lean and not fat and kinda athletic muscular,,its because they haver high high high natural gh in body,,not everyone has it at theiri level ,,thats why not everyone can be athlete in highschool ,,thats why some fellas are fatsos,,hgh is everything,,the more you have it the faster your metabolism is ,,it is the biggest secret behind bodybuilding,,thoe same kidos they get later on to age 40 and you meet them in highschool reuion and you see them fatzos with big belly right? why is that? its because their natural hgh declined to no where to be found at .001 a day in sted of the 2-3iu they used to release naturally at age 17,,thts why metabolism slow down ,,the tyroid balonie is all secondary crap that is ofcourse a problemos in americana due to so many fatzos but that comes as a secondary to athletes since most athletes are not fatzos type of individuals,,

so always remember friends,,everything start with hgh,,you take a fella like tbom put him on 5 iu gh a day for couple months ,,legit gh ,,then put him on aas or even both together,,and the fella go 240 8% in no time,,im talkin here 2-3 months not 2-3 years,,soem fellas just dont get it and what gh15 does is putting you the way it is infront of your eyes so your generation eventhough i hate it and its full of nothingnes ,,so atleast you dont have to go through the suffering of the lies the huge lies HUGE LIES our generation went through,,

gh15 approved

[spude]

what you fellas need to remember is,,that you can work super heavy but it doesnt always mean bigger muscle,,the fellas with the strongest tendoin and bones lift the heavier weights ,,more than the ones with big muscle,,you do need a good combo of both to be superb bodybuilder,,but if you look around you in the gym mr joe moboy that sits 9% 190lb 6feet never train heavy and yet he show great shape and very nice muscle correct? so the key is work as heavy as possible for you for bodybuilding,,then again some fellas like to lift heavy as in LIKE to lift heavy im one of them,,so thoe fellas do it because they LIKE lifting heavy they like to see the poundage being lifted ,,they just like lifting very heavy which i support as long as you know what you are doing,,

now,,WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU BE ON HORMONES WHILE LIFTING HEAVY ,,and WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU EAT YOUR ICECREAM AT NIGHT AND YOUR HOURLY CALORIC NEEDS WHEN ON GH ,,BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTER,, IF YOU DO NOT EAT YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY ON GH YOU WILL LOSE BF TOO FAST,,AND THEN NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIFT YOU WONT LOOK LIKE BODYBUILDER BUT MORE OF A FIT FITNESS GUY THAT IS LIFTING WEIGHT AND IN REAL GOOD SHAPE,,

ON HGH YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT,, YOU HAVE NO COICE BECAUSE BODY WILL GO ON STRIKE ON YOU IF YOU DONT ,,IT JUST GONNA MAKE YOU WANT TO SLEEP IF YOU DONT,,YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAT ON HGH,,YE ICECREAM TOO ,,YES DONUTS TOO,,YES ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AS LONG AS ITS NOT COMPLETELY OIL OF BUNCH OF USLESS CHOCOLATS,,BUT ICECREASM PIZZA BURGER SUSHI QUAlITY WEIGHT GAINER ,,JANAICA N ANYTHING AND KEEP RATIOS KNOWN TO YOU AS BODYBUILDER,,BUT HAVE TO EAT EAT EAT,,

THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BURNING FAT TOO FAST AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT IT IS ON HGH IF YOU DONT EAT ALL THE TIME

THE REASON MICHAEL PHELPS SAID HE WAS EATING 10K CALIRES A DAY OR 12K IS BECAUSE HE IS ON HGH , NOT ON MEGA AAS BUT HGH ,,NOW PUT A BODYBUILDER ON MEGA DOSES AAS AND HGH ESPECIALLY HIGHER DOSES...AND IF YOU DONT EAT YOUR ICECREAM YOU SIMPLY WONT USE THE HGH TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL,,

make sure gh is legit: )

gh15 approved

It`s awesome how, no matter the subject of the thread, you never nee more than ~4-5 sentencex to get to the magic combo:

testosterona
equipona
trenbolona
masterona
growth hormona

Your literary skills never stop amazing me, guess that`s why your God.

[clued-up]

Going *heavy* is unnecessary for building mass.

Going heavy damages your body - destroys your joints - creates injuries.

Going heavy is stupid.

Moderation is key... longevity is the goal.

[PJim]

Going *heavy* is unnecessary for building mass.

Going heavy damages your body - destroys your joints - creates injuries.

Going heavy is stupid.

Moderation is key... longevity is the goal.

Yep, heavy for the sake of heavy is stupid. Muscles should be doing the work.

[Tapeworm]

injury prone=disease of the mind..  reality, especially your body, is controlled by your perception of it. 

I'll agree with you insofar as a defeatist outlook won't help anyone make progress, but it seems like the one thing that all veteran lifters have is the willingness to make a realistic assessment of their performance and adjust their workouts accordingly.  I plan to be one of those guys - not the guy that used to train but can't anymore because he's too broken down.

[disco_stu]

should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.

what a simplistic viewpoint. thanks for sharing.

you clearly know nothing about specific adaptation and the way that rep schemes are learnt neurologically.

THIS is why morons like gh15 believe there are natural limits- because people who dont use drugs, and dont bother or cant learn how to train, dont achieve anything substantial.

and those who sponge loads of drugs can do anything and grow.

[disco_stu]

How you train doesn't really mean shit. Especially on heavy cycles, which our friend Tbombz is very much in to.

yupper. bingo.

[disco_stu]

Depends on the individual imo.  I hardly ever go below 8 reps anymore.  Overhead I'm going very light, 20-30 reps.  "Go heavy or go home" for me translates to "Go heavy, get injured."

rubbish.

train intensely and get injured is the rule. you can still go heavy and stop reps short.

you can also train heavy and sloppy and get hurt.

you can also train light and beyond failure and get hurt, or sloppy and get hurt.

i can take a shopping bag and twist wrong and put myself in a hospital bed for weeks.

i can lift my 3 rep max and stop at 2, or 1, and control it and do it safely and not get hurt.

i can do 30 reps and the last few squeeze and fail and tear a pec off the bone.

[Tapeworm]

rubbish.

train intensely and get injured is the rule. you can still go heavy and stop reps short.

you can also train heavy and sloppy and get hurt.

you can also train light and beyond failure and get hurt, or sloppy and get hurt.

i can take a shopping bag and twist wrong and put myself in a hospital bed for weeks.

i can lift my 3 rep max and stop at 2, or 1, and control it and do it safely and not get hurt.

i can do 30 reps and the last few squeeze and fail and tear a pec off the bone.

I'm going so light overhead because I'm recovering from bursal/tendon impingement.  It's been a recurring problem for more than 20 years so I'm doing what I think is best for it.  Others will do what they think is best for themselves, which is pretty much all I'm advocating here: Listen to your body and do what you think is best.

[_bruce_]

wrong. you dont get injured by going heavy, you get injured by training incorrectly- whether its improper form, improper warm up, lack of stretching, etc.  you wont grow much at all after a while if you never go below 8 reps, simply because the weight your using will not be increasing quick enough, if its increasing any at all.
yuppppp. age is a number people sometimes hide behind..
 some truth to this, but eventually the guy would start to have to lift heavy again or else he would hit a platue and be unable to move past it.
good 

 makes sense

BOOM

[gh15]

what a simplistic viewpoint. thanks for sharing.

you clearly know nothing about specific adaptation and the way that rep schemes are learnt neurologically.

THIS is why morons like gh15 believe there are natural limits- because people who dont use drugs, and dont bother or cant learn how to train, dont achieve anything substantial.

and those who sponge loads of drugs can do anything and grow.

not true my friend,, many many hormonized lifters also known as bodybuilder,,train very very hard,,you know like gh15 knows that there is 220 and then THERE IS 220,,so yes the homonized lifter has easier way and can achieve what natural lifter can not simply due to more hormone in blood that give higher minimums,,but! it does not mean that homonized lifter does not train hard

the natural limit established by me in the bible is after many many years of training and experienting with true naturals ,,naturals on prohormone,, naturals on steroids called prohormones,,naturals on injects,, and naturals on all of the above ,,i did not just write it for the sache  of writing,,i did it after exprriemnting with many many lifters from all countries after 2 dozens years

gh15 approved

[wes]

I usually train in the pyramid style dropping reps as I add weight each set,then doing a few pump sets at the end of an exercise.

Best of both worlds.

You should go as heavy as you can for the reps you are shooting for whether it be 3 reps or 20 reps.

PERIOD.

[cephissus]

what a simplistic viewpoint. thanks for sharing.

you clearly know nothing about specific adaptation and the way that rep schemes are learnt neurologically.

THIS is why morons like gh15 believe there are natural limits- because people who dont use drugs, and dont bother or cant learn how to train, dont achieve anything substantial.

and those who sponge loads of drugs can do anything and grow.

I suppose guys like Kyoshi Moody are amazing scientists in the gym -- using their immense intellects and supremely refined instincts to construct absurdly effective training systems that complement their nigh-unfathomable natural talent for the discipline.  Yes, of course, the guy whose writings are barely legible and sits around on getbig arguing with anonymous internet posters about his natural status all day -- a veritable genius in the gym.

 

You want to be a pedant one second ("the way rep schemes are learnt neurologically" -- whatever the hell this refers to is something, I can assure you, has never crossed the mind of any bodybuilding champion that wasn't trying to sell a training article) and chase fairytales the next.

I've been training for years naturally and have read up on practically every dumbass training methodology (for bodybuilding) ever written.  Funny enough, gh15s training bible thread compiled by first blood is easily among the best writing on the subject.

[George Whorewell]

Lifting weights is not the same thing as building muscle.

The key is to use as little force as possible to generate the greatest muscular response. There is no difference between heavyweight and light weight, high reps and low reps if you are training to momentary muscular fatigue ( failure).

Unless you are training to execute a particular lift ( increase bench press for a powerlifting meet, etc.) it is nonsensical to go superheavy. You need to lift just heavy enough to generate a neurological response that results in anaerobic adapatations made by your body. Going superheavy damages your tendons and joints, increases the likelihood of injury and 90% of the time fucks up your form. Microprogression is the way to go.  One warmup set and one working set of a weight you can handle for roughly 8-10 reps is all you need. 

[suckmymuscle]

should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.

  Your posts, as usual, make no sense. How do high reps make your muscles grow? Going by your logic, marathon runners should have the biggest quads and guys who wash dishes should have the biggest arms.

  Muscles grow from increasing strength. Muscle sarcomers don't increase in strength per area of size, so the only way for a muscle to increase in strength beyond mere improved neurological efficiency is by increasing the number of sarcomers and thus it's volume. That is bodybuilding in a nutshell. Everything else is pseudoscientific garbage. You and Johnny Falcon are the queens of pseudoscientific nonsense and failed logic.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[shiftedShapes]

You could eat a jamaican meal and 2 oreo cookies and bench 405 naturally YO

AHAHAHAHAA

[dj181]

"Muscles grow from increasing strength" EXACTLY! BINGO!

[Ursus]

"Muscles grow from increasing strength" EXACTLY! BINGO!

Increase in strength is basically your tendons getting stronger.