pm question answered

[tbombz]

I definitely agree that progressive overload is important. Said it many many times. I've even said that Dante, who's attitude I don't like, is completely right in what he says about this.

However, "letting the drugs do the work" may not be so stupid in a way. I've completely wrecked my body by "training hard". Had I relied more on drugs and not trained so "hard" I would probably be a bodybuilder nowadays. Some people are more injury resistant and only in retrospect do you know where your limits lie.

If it weren't for the injury factor heavy training would beat "pumping" ALWAYS. Think of Ronnie doing those reckless bouncing front squats - these no amount of pumping that would give that hypertrophy stimulus. But even Ronnie, with crazy injury resistance, was stopped by injuries, well before the muscle itself stopped responding.

I saw where you said injury is only due to bad form and doing things wrong, not the weight per se. I gotta disagree. Especially coupled with hormone intake heavy loads will lead to injury eventually. There is no way to predict when it happens, one day you're feeling great, thinking you're careful and doing things right, and you hear a tearing sound.  

Vince Taylor looked fantastic doing his pumping style. There's no doubt he would have been even bigger had he focused more on getting stronger in the target rep range. But who knows, maybe his career would have been cut short by 10 years? Or maybe he would have been Mr O?

Cant predict the future, thats true i guess. i dont think injury is very likely as long as you train smart. i dont advocate training heavy to the point of failure. i think that is what can cause injury, at least most of the times that it isnt caused by bad form and imporper warm up or something like that. you know, nutrition can really play a role in that sort of thing too you know-getting injured., i think youll find injuries and tears to be much more prevelant in thos ebodybuilders who eat a diet of processsed foods and meat. ZGuys like evan centaponi who include vegetables at every meal every day, really living the bodybuilding lifestyle inside and out (not saying he doesnt eat junk food, just saying that he eats vegetables daily and the junk is more rare).. i think guys like evan will be much less succeptibnle to injury. especially if he stays away from failure and trains properly, good warm ups and form. etc.  training light, never going below 8 reps for example, and just generally not focusing on progressive overload and raising the weight on the bar is far from optimal, even though a person  may come along every so often who can get results from doing so with the combined use of drugs. but that is a very very rare case and even in that case-for example guys like vince taylor, phil heath, flex wheeler, chris corimer, paul dillet, etc.. guys who never went "heavy".. guess what? those guys oculd stilll lift heavy ass weight. they woudl routinely use 300-400lbs on all major exercises. it just wasnt hevay to them. but they would have never gotten that big unless they gopt that strong, and ill guarantee you the strength came before the size, not after. thats just basic physisics

[tbombz]

i know, i know...

but you know as well as i do that all the drugs in the world wont do anything for a guy who has never lifted heavy ass weights. big boys can lift big weights. thats a fact. not all big boys continue to lift heavy weights on a regular basis, i do notice alot of guys lose their motivation to gain strength and lift heavy once they get to a certain size. but thats only after they have already built up a foundation of muscle, at which point they can maintain size and "refine" what they already have by doing higher reps and increasing the doseage. but first they had to lift hard and heavy, get strong, before they ever got that to size in the first place. like i said to van, we can talk about the few rare exceptions, guys like phil, flex, levrone, cormier, dillet, nasser, who were able to build massive physiques without ever lifting super hard and heavy. but all those guys did lift heavy ass weights. just for some reason their strength and size came relatively easy to them, they didnt need to do sets in the 1-5 rep range in order to conttinuosly add pounds on to their lifts. most people are going to have do train more like a "powerbuilder" and focus on lifting heavy in order to gain the size. of course your point was that without the right drugs you wont look like a bodybuiulder no matter how you train. and i agree with you. my point is that even with the right drugs, 99% of guys still wont look like a bodybuilder because they arent focusing on getting stronger. 

wrong my friend,,


the truth is and its a sad truth but its the only truth about bodybuilding,,

the use of GH IS CRITICAL,,NONE OF THE OLD TIMERS WILL TELL YOU SO,,but if you read between coaches words,,you will understand he was aware of bodybuilders experiementing with it along the 70! i know it in the early 80s but you get the idea,,

bodybuilding ,,modern bodybuilding,,is all abot    wether you have gh in system ,,AND THEN HOW MUCH GH YOU HAVE IN SYSTEM,,

you have no need in nothing else,,you can practically play with weights,,you can never touch the free weight bench zone in gym you can only work hammer and have the best chest in the world,,

it all depend on your size and condition that is it,,for that the main contributers are gh and aas,,there are other drugs such as diuretic play integral part but gh15 is talkin about GH AND AAS,, the combination is CRITICAL TO THE OUTMOST CRITICAL POINT,,INFACT YOU WILL NOT LOOK LIKE A BODYBUILDERE NOW DAY WORTH MENTIONING WITH OUT THE USE OF GH ALONG WITH THE AAS,,YOU JUST WONT BE BIG ENOUGH YOU WONT HAVE THE 'DAMN' FACTOR ,,nor will you have the quality factor when it comes to lean size and widness that gh give you with the over all tightness,,

why do you thikn tony freeman can say he got 30 inch waist? because it damn look like 30 inch waist even though it is far far from it BUT HE CAN SAY IT BECAUSE THE GH MAKE IT LOOK TIGHT AS A 30 INCH WAIST EPECIALLY IN PICTURES,,

why and how do you think the x frame even became x frame,,mainly due to hgh,,

why do you think fella like phillip heath even have delts? how come he is even becoming wide and can be on stage? H G H its the fibers thatg hgh brings you and bring you very very fast at  mega dosing into mutant level,,hell it bring it fast at 5 iu a day ,,you talkin no more than 2-3 months on hgh and aas to look everything and anything like competetive bodybuilder if training

so the truth my friend is that as long as you have gh in system and add to it aas,,ANYONE CAN BE NATIONAL COMPETITOR,,ANY ONE CAN GET TO BE LARGE AND LEAN ,,EVEN IF YOU ARE VINC SUB HUMAN 3G SPC SERTIFIED TRN,,EVEN HE CAN GET LEAN AND LAEGE ON THAT COMBO,,


thatgs the lie you kids been fed to for so many years,,

the ones who say they dont take gh ,,are the worst abuser of the stuff,,it is part of every bodybuilder arsenal ,,you seimply do not grow lean with out it unless youre really in your early 20s ,,but even then you need it to become mutant,,you just need higher hgh that result in higher igf in blood inorder to see the look you want ,,you want abdominal show pushing through midsection ,,you want meaty wround wide delts,, you want full muscle yet sqarish tosro,,you want very tight 32 inch apearing waist while being 250 ,,the only way to that is H G H ,,

now and this is important to talk about rather than the prograssive balonie,,this is very very important to understand,,

THE 4-5 IU YOU FELLA TAKE WILL NOT NOT AND I REPAT NOT PUT YOU AT MAGAZINE LOOK ,,FOR THAT THE DOSES ARE MUCH MUCH HIGHER,,THOE BODYBUILDER ARE ADDICT OF HORMONES AND MAINLY ADDICT OF HGH,,THEY BUY IT IN THE DOZENS OF KITS,,THEY REALLY REALLY USE 2 VIALS A DAY EQUAL 15-20 IU THEY DO ,,SOTHATS THAT,,

inother words what im trying to explain to you fellas here is,,that when you read the package of the hgh,,when you read the paper and it ays you need to inject .15 oer kg of body weight ,,the bodybuilder really do it ,,they dont play balonie with you fellas,,they take the damn thing put the needle in and inject the doses recomended for severe burn victim,,this is what they dont tell you ,,to you on board they say ohhhh we do 4 iu BALONIE,,THATS WHERE THE LIE IS!!!!! when liar priest say he dont use gh or then change his story and says he used gh long time ago ,,both ofcourse lies lie lie,,what he really  mean is that insted of using the 5 iu dose you use inorder to go into local competition he take your weekly dose and inject it in 2 4  h o u r s ,,

and that my friend why he is 230 8% at 5'4 and you are 210 12% at 5'10

thats right there is bodybuilding for you ,,youfellas need to really really understand it ,,

i allow this post to be posted on other boards on internet,,i take it as exeption because its very important posting ,,so you have my  approval on that,,

gh15 approved

[~UN_$ung~]

man GH is typing some LONG ASS messages lately

long essays,  he must spend a lot of time typing

[dj181]

But what you got to remember is dat those guys who don't train heavy are just maintaining their size. They used heavy PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD training while they were building their size, and that IS EXACTLY HOW THEY GOT THEIR MASSIVE MUSCLES IN THE 1ST PLACE. Show me someone who got larger and larger muscles WITHOUT using progressively heavier and heavier weights? It can't be done. Remember, these "superstars" got big muscles from progressively greater and greater workloads. And speaking of injury, Arthur Jones used to say that the majority of injuries come at the beginning of a work set when one is fresh and uses too much force to move the weight, and that the last few reps in a set taken to failure are actually the safest reps. I'm not so sure about that, but that was his claim. P.S. I've never been injured while training, but I have suffered some injuries from other "sports" namely basketball and running track.

[no one]

But what you got to remember is dat those guys who don't train heavy are just maintaining their size. They used heavy PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD training while they were building their size, and that IS EXACTLY HOW THEY GOT THEIR MASSIVE MUSCLES IN THE 1ST PLACE. Show me someone who got larger and larger muscles WITHOUT using progressively heavier and heavier weights? It can't be done. Remember, these "superstars" got big muscles from progressively greater and greater workloads. And speaking of injury, Arthur Jones used to say that the majority of injuries come at the beginning of a work set when one is fresh and uses too much force to move the weight, and that the last few reps in a set taken to failure are actually the safest reps. I'm not so sure about that, but that was his claim. P.S. I've never been injured while training, but I have suffered some injuries from other "sports" namely basketball and running track.

you really have no clue, do you?

no, they didnt use 'PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD training to get their MASSIVE MUSCLES IN THE 1ST PLACE'.

they just upped the dose.

it isnt rocket science. its fact- get on that page or get left behind.

[tbombz]

But what you got to remember is dat those guys who don't train heavy are just maintaining their size. They used heavy PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD training while they were building their size, and that IS EXACTLY HOW THEY GOT THEIR MASSIVE MUSCLES IN THE 1ST PLACE. Show me someone who got larger and larger muscles WITHOUT using progressively heavier and heavier weights? It can't be done. Remember, these "superstars" got big muscles from progressively greater and greater workloads. And speaking of injury, Arthur Jones used to say that the majority of injuries come at the beginning of a work set when one is fresh and uses too much force to move the weight, and that the last few reps in a set taken to failure are actually the safest reps. I'm not so sure about that, but that was his claim. P.S. I've never been injured while training, but I have suffered some injuries from other "sports" namely basketball and running track.

he does have a point about injuries offten occuring at the beginning of the set,  but that is usually in the context of having an improper warm up. im not saying that the injury may necessarily occur on the last rep, but that going to that point can stress the muscle too much and maybe be repsonsible for an injury on the following set or thee following workout?

you really have no clue, do you?

no, they didnt use 'PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD training to get their MASSIVE MUSCLES IN THE 1ST PLACE'.

they just upped the dose.

it isnt rocket science. its fact- get on that page or get left behind.

"upped the dose" of what drug? iGH, AAS, or both at the same time? using alot of gh and alot of aas is the trigger that causes the growth, but the growth wont happen if arentent focusing on progressive overload and getting stronger too.

[no one]

he does have a point about injuries offten occuring at the beginning of the set,  but that is usually in the context of having an improper warm up. im not saying that the injury may necessarily occur on the last rep, but that going to that point can stress the muscle too much and maybe be repsonsible for an injury on the following set or thee following workout?

"upped the dose" of what drug? iGH, AAS, or both at the same time? using alot of gh and alot of aas is the trigger that causes the growth, but the growth wont happen if arentent focusing on progressive overload and getting stronger too.

i disagree.

[tbombz]

i disagree.

Every guy on the olympia stage can bench over 450. every guy on the olympia stage can deadlift over 550. every guy on the olympia stage can shoulder press over 315 and every guy on the olympia stage can squat with over 405.

[Van_Bilderass]

Cant predict the future, thats true i guess. i dont think injury is very likely as long as you train smart. i dont advocate training heavy to the point of failure. i think that is what can cause injury, at least most of the times that it isnt caused by bad form and imporper warm up or something like that.

Something happens when you use a lot of steroids that makes you much more vulnerable to muscle tears. Even guys who don't lift heavy nor to failure can suddenly tear a muscle doing some silly light movement. Hell some guys have torn muscles just posing. When your muscles feel extremely "full" from drugs it can sometimes feel like you might tear the muscle curling a 10lb dumbell and that feeling isn't wrong a lot of times.

I don't know if the failure point is the most dangerous point. What dj181 said, the point that Arthur Jones made, that you can generate the most force at the beginning of a set. I agree with it. All my tears have occurred not during a grinding last rep, but during the first or second rep. My pec was completely torn during the second rep of a 10-12 rep set on smith incline.

I also think that after a long training career there might be microtears on your tendonds you're not aware of. One day it just gives. There will be wear and tear on your body after training a long time, no matter what, even training "light".

guys who never went "heavy".. guess what? those guys oculd stilll lift heavy ass weight

A big muscle is a strong muscle. I have a friend who's "twice" my size yet I'm much stronger. I always tell him that muscularly he's stronger than me. It's just that moving a lot of weight involves a lot more than the muscular strength potential of a set of muscles. It's technique, neuromuscular coordination. Especially with multi-joint movements these other factors come into play. But yeah, all these big guys who didn't seem extremely strong still could generate a ton of force. Like the research says, the strength of a muscle is related to the cross-sectional area of the muscle.

If you're big you're not weak.  

[tbombz]

If you're big you're not weak.  

you wont get big unless you get strong.

[Van_Bilderass]

Every guy on the olympia stage can bench over 450. every guy on the olympia stage can deadlift over 550. every guy on the olympia stage can shoulder press over 315 and every guy on the olympia stage can squat with over 405.

I don't know about those numbers. Squat yeah, but the other lifts no. Not every guy.



 

[tbombz]

I don't know about those numbers. Squat yeah, but the other lifts no. Not every guy.



 

ill guarantee it. first off, those really arent very big numbers. second off, all the guys on the olympia stage are fucking massive and can easily lift those numbers, most of them for sets of reps. thirdly, even if you dont want to accept that all those guys can lift those weights, you could not be arguing anything other than maybe one or two guys as maybe just barely short of one or two of those numbers.

[dj181]

Jones also said that one should move a tad slower during the first few reps to keep the levels of force in check. And he also had an idea of a "breaking point" which basically was the point where the muscle or tendon or liagment would "break" under an unsaid load. It could be 400 pounds or 500 pounds or 300 pounds, and what he sometimes recommended was to stay at say 400 pounds and work up to 20 or even 50 reps. I remember that he wrote about some fvcking beast he trained who did full ass to the grass squats with 450 pounds, and he was working on bringing this beast to the point of doing 50 fvcking reps with a 450 pound barbell! I think that it may have been Casey Viator.

[Van_Bilderass]

ill guarantee it. first off, those really arent very big numbers. second off, all the guys on the olympia stage are fucking massive and can easily lift those numbers, most of them for sets of reps. thirdly, even if you dont want to accept that all those guys can lift those weights, you could not be arguing anything other than maybe one or two guys as maybe just barely short of one or two of those numbers.

There's many guys on the O stage who can't bench 450. How many pros have benched in their videos, how many of them have repped with 450+? I can only think of 2, Levrone and Coleman. Maybe you have some more examples, maybe even of them repping a much lighter weight which could correlate to 450lbs max.

If you've never done a floor deadlift, which a number of pros have never done, 550 would not happen first time out, even if the potential was there.

[MAXX]

I also think that after a long training career there might be microtears on your tendonds you're not aware of. One day it just gives. There will be wear and tear on your body after training a long time, no matter what, even training "light".

I definately think there is something to be said for the wear and tear. Like you said microtears in muscles leading to scarbuildup, progressively more and more and eventually the muscle gives away.

But I do believe that lighter training will give you a longer run. See Shawn Ray, see Vince Taylor. Both relatively light trainers, both long career, both injury free.

On the other side we have heavy hard trainers. See Dorian Yates, see Ronnie. This type of training leads to more trauma on the muscle meaning more tearbuildup and scartissue buildup. Eventually the muscle gives.

[gh15]

GH15,  How do you explain the difference in physique of Marius Pudzeowski and other powerlifters?  Is he using more GH to cut up?

What about bodybuilder Frank Sepe?  What did he do to his physique drug wise when he transitioned from bodybuilder to fitness model?  Less test?  Less GH?  More Cardio? etc. etc.

Thanks

try anadrol gh and testosterona and you will understand why marius looked different than other powerlifter,, great gh user,,and ofcourse the combo or anapolon gh and testosterona create very large strong thick bliwn up lean fellas but,,marius in particular liked gh,,you dont have to use gh to be a great powerliofter but you do have to have it to have a great powerlifter physiqe


frank sepe was on a lot of seros,,he did it when seros were very easy to get ,,via aids pacient usually ,, when control was a lot less tight in americana,,his aas usage suits fitness model which is less long ester more short ester and ofcourse big emphasis on anabolics to androgenic higher ratio

gh15 approved

[gh15]

I don't know about those numbers. Squat yeah, but the other lifts no. Not every guy.



 

correct,,maybe on a good day maxing one rep when on lotta anadrol tren halo etc,, but many of the 202 class cant do those lifts epecially nto for reps,,some of the open also cant

gh15 approved

[gh15]

ill guarantee it. first off, those really arent very big numbers. second off, all the guys on the olympia stage are fucking massive and can easily lift those numbers, most of them for sets of reps. thirdly, even if you dont want to accept that all those guys can lift those weights, you could not be arguing anything other than maybe one or two guys as maybe just barely short of one or two of those numbers.

yes many of the o line up can do it for one rep,,some for reps but in reality in the gym ,,when cameras are off,,and no one around ,,when there is no money to gain ,,and no magazine to photoshoot even though many of the plate are fake,,they train lighter,,they train within level where the muscle can be stimulated

gh15 approved

[gh15]

that is also why most physiqe today are called foundationles,,because training is not as heavy and not as serious as in the 70s ,,they did train a lot harder and a lot balls to wall in 70s,,yes they had all you can eat drug buffet but! they trained their ass ,,they didnt go all day long like the lie storys but when they trained ,,they trained big time,,its just part of society back then ,,alot more serious than the shit we call society today

gh15 approved

[el numero uno]

that is also why most physiqe today are called foundationles,,because training is not as heavy and not as serious as in the 70s ,,they did train a lot harder and a lot balls to wall in 70s,,yes they had all you can eat drug buffet but! they trained their ass ,,they didnt go all day long like the lie storys but when they trained ,,they trained big time,,its just part of society back then ,,alot more serious than the shit we call society today

gh15 approved

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you said that when you take very high doses of aas you become very lazy. So... nobody trains heavy nowdays because the shitload of drugs? or it's because the nothingness of our generation?

[gh15]

no body train hard because when you got lots of drugs in system you just become lazy ,,but you also had lots of drugs in system back then,,,the difference is then no hgh at the level we have now,,

when you have hgh at the level you have now in bodybuilding ,,you DO NOT HAVE TO TRAIN OR DIET VERY SERIOUSLY TO SEE 8% 230+,,THE NEED OF SPCIFIC DIET IS ONLY FOR GOING DOWN TO 4 % FROM 7% AND THE GH COVER FOR MANY MANY MISTSAKES SOME OF THEM IS DIET,,SOME OF THEM IS BEING LAZY ,,SOME OF THEM IS OVERSATURATING YOURSELF WITH DRUGS,,

just so you understand friends,,most bodybuilder OVEREAT,,bodybuilder with no gh that is,,ONLY WHEN YOU ARE ON GH IS WHEN YOU NEED TO EAT SHIT LOAD OF FOOD,,you have no need to overeat when you are only on aas,,many mistakenly do it and it fuck their bodybuilding,,

intensity still matter but lifting heavy is really something yhou dont see many bodybuilder do now days,,they dont ,,they SAY THEY DO,,you hear stories they do,,they do it once in a blue moon ,,in reality they come into gym for 3 months prep for competition playing around and growing from abuse of GROWTH HORMONE TRENBOLONA  TESTOSTERONA AND EQUIPONA

gh = more food

no gh = less food

gh15 approved

[Disgusted]

didnt say you dont need to train heavy,,i alwys ay training is got to be there,,ofcoure you have to train to grow muscle,,but i can garenfuckintee you that you can build amazing chest by smitth machine ,,way better than free weight IF you genetic respond to hormone in the chest department is superb and if you got the combo gh/aas

ofcoure you have to train ,,duh,,you cant just buukld physiqw from siting home do nothing,,you do need to get in gym and train ,,but all those who say like liar priest,,ohhh i train none stop 38 hours a day ,,i take off 3 months in 30 years,,those are complete and utter lies ,,balonie of the cheapest kind

45-60min in gym 4 times a week thats all you need,,maybe 5 if you really going all out,,

THERE IS SUCH A THING AS OVER TRAINING! with or with out drug

gh15 approved

READ THIS AS THIS SUMS IT UP PERFECTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Training hard matters BUT!!!!! all this bullshit about training to extreme failure forced reps negatives etc is NOT needed,all that matters at this levels is the amount of drugs PERIOD!!!!!!!! and not how hard one trains. Everyone trains hard and it's a myth that the hardest training guys are the biggest. This is bullshit propaganda and lies perpetuated by the magazines and supplement companies and some trainers who want you to believe in new fangled training system.

[Wiggs]

READ THIS AS THIS SUMS IT UP PERFECTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Training hard matters BUT!!!!! all this bullshit about training to extreme failure forced reps negatives etc is NOT needed,all that matters at this levels is the amount of drugs PERIOD!!!!!!!! and not how hard one trains. Everyone trains hard and it's a myth that the hardest training guys are the biggest. This is bullshit propaganda and lies perpetuated by the magazines and supplement companies and some trainers who want you to believe in new fangled training system.

Fuckin A man, it just keeps getting worse...

[Meso_z]

man GH is typing some LONG ASS messages lately

long essays,  he must spend a lot of time typing

Maybe hes trying so bad to convince us to buy ghona? 

[cephissus]

What does overtraining feel like?  I'm a natural and these days all the time my muscles feel dead and like they won't "turn on."  Every once in a while I'll have a day or two of good workouts where I'm "on" and lift good weights and get a pump etc. but then it's back to "off" no weight, no pump, and hurting joints.  Is this overtraining, or something else?