Author Topic: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.  (Read 13366 times)

tbombz

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2011, 02:59:37 PM »
Ok.  By omission you are not Christian or Hebrew.  New Age hocus pocus, or what? By the way, I find homosexuality, either male or female, to be both disgusting and illogical.  Your words read as though you desire to rationalize homosexuality.  Every major "religion", even that espoused by the Dali Lama himself, finds homosexuality to be wrong and/or undesirable.  Don't like it?  Get used to disappointment.

And if you can't talk about such subjects with me it is only because you will not like the answer(s) I may or may not provide.  Simple really. 
my religion is logic, and logic indicates to me that god is necessary. logic also indicates to me that there can be no wrong in a behavior that does not cause anyone or anything harm. morality is defined by helping and hurting others. if no one is hurt, then there is no wrongdoing.

tbombz

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2011, 03:01:12 PM »
God of gaps. Try harder.
LOL nope, i was alluding to the fact that matter is infinitely divisible.

che

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2011, 03:02:53 PM »
my religion is logic, and logic indicates to me that god is necessary. logic also indicates to me that there can be no wrong in a behavior that does not cause anyone or anything harm. morality is defined by helping and hurting others. if no one is hurt, then there is no wrongdoing.


TBombz , It is you who hasn't made any logical argument for any statement you have made.




Hahha Oh brother


''Maybe God didnt always exist. I actually think that he created himself. which implies that there was a period of non-existence, and then god created himself... got lonely, and created existence'' 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 TBombz

che

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2011, 03:05:30 PM »
Easily qoute of the year, almost new thread worthy!!  ;D

 ;D

225for70

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2011, 03:06:57 PM »
boom

Fury

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2011, 03:08:32 PM »
Tbombz, I'm guessing you just took your first philosophy class at that community college you're attending.

Reeves

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2011, 03:09:30 PM »
my religion is logic, and logic indicates to me that god is necessary. logic also indicates to me that there can be no wrong in a behavior that does not cause anyone or anything harm. morality is defined by helping and hurting others. if no one is hurt, then there is no wrongdoing.

So, if you run a red light, even when there is no valid, (e.g. an emergency) need and no one sees you do it, it's not against the law?  A very simple analogy, but one that is definitely applicable in this case.  What I see is that you desire to do that which you desire.  You are uncomfortable with the idea of a divine judgement, so you substitute "logic" for "God" because logic is more palatable, i.e., nonjudgmental.   I submit that you have zero faith in "God" or even as you profess above, "logic"  and in typical human fashion have substituted your own desires.  There are plenty of people that do so, but that doesn't make it any less disgusting with regard to, shall we say, certain practices.

As Cartman would say, "Science be praised!"

225for70

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2011, 03:10:42 PM »
Tbombz, I'm guessing you just took your first philosophy class at that community college you're attending.

That's what i was guessing...

The kid tries so hard.. ;D

pluck

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2011, 03:49:22 PM »
You blind religious nuts hahaha
Let me save you the trouble of typing. Just copy & paste after each atheist post

" Since I dont know the answer...It must be god's creation"

I'm a catholic atheist.
Take a step back & take a look at religion critically over a period of time. Oh wait, religious nuts can't handle that concept.

Just because science does not have an answer to a particular concept or question ...it does not mean it fails, it means that not enough data is known about the subject. ...it does not mean that science is a crock and therefore it proves God's existence.

I wish people looked at all religions and saw the bullshit and hypocrisy on each one.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2011, 05:21:04 PM »
give me one piece of logic that indicates God isnt necessary. (existence demands a creator)

cause-->effect

without a cause, there is no effect.

if something exists, it was caused.


objection 1: some effects do not require a cause. Quantum mechanics tells us that particles at the sub-atomic level behave without causation. You claim something must be responsible. However, no evidence for sub-quantum forces has ever been found. The forces ARE the result of quantum particles (e.g. strong forces are caused by gluons, not vice versa).

objection 2a: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This means the chain of causes of your future actions extend backwards to before you were born. In essence, your whole life is predetermined and free will doesn't exist. If you object that any of these causes is an isolated event, then you are implying an uncaused cause which violates the "law of cause and effect."

objection 2b: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This chain of causes may be traced back to the first cause. A familiar paradox arises - what caused the first cause? According to the "law of cause and effect," every cause must be caused by something else. If we assume there is an uncaused cause, then its premise is violated and the whole argument fails.

objection 3: the "law of cause and effect" postulates that a specific cause always leads to a specific effect (i.e. there may be some attribute X which always leads to some attribute Y). However, we have never observed two instances of X which led to two instances of Y. Every X is different in some respect from every other X. Likewise, every Y is different from every other Y. If you object that we may infer the same outcome when each X is exactly the same, then you are creating a definition for cause and effect that cannot be falsified. Since all you would have to do whenever someone challenges you is propose additional 'unknown' causes, this is not really a valid argument. It would be like me claiming "the universe was created by a giant shit I took that traveled back in time. We just don't understand all the factors that were involved" no matter how many objections are raised. Although this argument can never be falsified, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's true.

MCWAY

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2011, 06:53:06 AM »
where did god come from?

or is logical to say god always existed, yet somehow illogical to say nature always existed

That's basically the difference between Christians and atheists. Apparently, BOTH believe in an ever-existing entity. The former believes that entity to be a sentient being; the latter believes it's non-sentient matter.

MCWAY

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2011, 06:58:26 AM »
You blind religious nuts hahaha
Let me save you the trouble of typing. Just copy & paste after each atheist post

" Since I dont know the answer...It must be god's creation"

I'm a catholic atheist.
Take a step back & take a look at religion critically over a period of time. Oh wait, religious nuts can't handle that concept.

Just because science does not have an answer to a particular concept or question ...it does not mean it fails, it means that not enough data is known about the subject. ...it does not mean that science is a crock and therefore it proves God's existence.

I wish people looked at all religions and saw the bullshit and hypocrisy on each one.

Does that include the religion of humanism/atheism, or simply man worshipping HIMSELF?

Heck, they're even coming up with (what I like to call) "un-churches"....that is, humanist centers where people go on Sundays, as a counterpart to Christians going to church.

#1 Klaus fan

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2011, 07:37:12 AM »
That's basically the difference between Christians and atheists. Apparently, BOTH believe in an ever-existing entity. The former believes that entity to be a sentient being; the latter believes it's non-sentient matter.

Wrong.

lovemonkey

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2011, 08:07:09 AM »
I was going to join this debate but then I realized that there's no point. It's a never ending argument that leads nowhere. I'm just really glad this religious crap very rarely haunts me in real life.
from incomplete data

IrishMuscle84

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2011, 10:21:04 AM »
I was going to join this debate but then I realized that there's no point. It's a never ending argument that leads nowhere. I'm just really glad this religious crap very rarely haunts me in real life.
Yup. Thats what RELIGION is, Religion is without a doubt the most CONTROVERSIAL Topic there is.

el numero uno

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2011, 10:32:50 AM »
Yup. Thats what RELIGION is, Religion is without a doubt the most CONTROVERSIAL Topic there is.

After "who is better: ronnie or dorian"

Men in thongs = serious bussiness  :-X

tbombz

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #91 on: January 10, 2011, 08:23:12 PM »
objection 1: some effects do not require a cause. Quantum mechanics tells us that particles at the sub-atomic level behave without causation. You claim something must be responsible. However, no evidence for sub-quantum forces has ever been found. The forces ARE the result of quantum particles (e.g. strong forces are caused by gluons, not vice versa).

objection 2a: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This means the chain of causes of your future actions extend backwards to before you were born. In essence, your whole life is predetermined and free will doesn't exist. If you object that any of these causes is an isolated event, then you are implying an uncaused cause which violates the "law of cause and effect."

objection 2b: if everything that happens must have a cause, then each cause must have an earlier cause and so on. This chain of causes may be traced back to the first cause. A familiar paradox arises - what caused the first cause? According to the "law of cause and effect," every cause must be caused by something else. If we assume there is an uncaused cause, then its premise is violated and the whole argument fails.

objection 3: the "law of cause and effect" postulates that a specific cause always leads to a specific effect (i.e. there may be some attribute X which always leads to some attribute Y). However, we have never observed two instances of X which led to two instances of Y. Every X is different in some respect from every other X. Likewise, every Y is different from every other Y. If you object that we may infer the same outcome when each X is exactly the same, then you are creating a definition for cause and effect that cannot be falsified. Since all you would have to do whenever someone challenges you is propose additional 'unknown' causes, this is not really a valid argument. It would be like me claiming "the universe was created by a giant shit I took that traveled back in time. We just don't understand all the factors that were involved" no matter how many objections are raised. Although this argument can never be falsified, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's true.

thats a very good post. your very informed :)

the law of cause and effect is very real, even if not so at the "sub-atomic" level. but i would say that just because theres no evidence for "sub-quantum" forces, doesnt mean there isnt. the term "sub quantum" is a bit of a misnomer, in fact labeling anything as "quantum" is outright idiotic  :) what do scientists think a photon is made of? what is on the inside of it? what is on the inside of that?   ;) me thinks science will one day find the cause for these "uncaused" happenings.. and then say that they found the truly uncaused prime material.. and then go on to found out again that they were wrong and that was caused too.. and so on and so on. in fact basic logic would dictate that would be the case.


no such thing as free will?  free will is very real, and one of the best evidences for God's existence.


lovemonkey

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #92 on: January 10, 2011, 09:43:12 PM »
thats a very good post. your very informed :)

the law of cause and effect is very real, even if not so at the "sub-atomic" level. but i would say that just because theres no evidence for "sub-quantum" forces, doesnt mean there isnt. the term "sub quantum" is a bit of a misnomer, in fact labeling anything as "quantum" is outright idiotic  :) what do scientists think a photon is made of? what is on the inside of it? what is on the inside of that?   ;) me thinks science will one day find the cause for these "uncaused" happenings.. and then say that they found the truly uncaused prime material.. and then go on to found out again that they were wrong and that was caused too.. and so on and so on. in fact basic logic would dictate that would be the case.


no such thing as free will?  free will is very real, and one of the best evidences for God's existence.



You obviously didn't read point 2a.
from incomplete data

Butterbean

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2011, 06:39:27 AM »
You blind religious nuts hahaha
Let me save you the trouble of typing. Just copy & paste after each atheist post

" Since I dont know the answer...It must be god's creation"

I'm a catholic atheist.
Take a step back & take a look at religion critically over a period of time. Oh wait, religious nuts can't handle that concept.

Just because science does not have an answer to a particular concept or question ...it does not mean it fails, it means that not enough data is known about the subject. ...it does not mean that science is a crock and therefore it proves God's existence.

I wish people looked at all religions and saw the bullshit and hypocrisy on each one.

pluck, can you post some details on the turning point(s) from being a Catholic to being an atheist?  

Also, what type of science other than macroevoltion do you feel is at odds with the bible?



R

Migs

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2011, 05:33:47 PM »
so he was seduced by the simple minds of a tribe, who like animals are too shallow to to see anything that is not right in front of their eyes. awesome.  ::)

a word change or two would describe people that believe in religion

Butterbean

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Re: Atheist tribe deconverts missionary.
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2011, 10:31:35 AM »
a word change or two would describe people that believe in religion

Which words?

And are you including Christianity when you talk about "religion?"
R