Author Topic: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.  (Read 11205 times)

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2011, 02:12:13 PM »
Most people don't realize that NY pensioners don't pay NYS income tax on their pensions, and can go out at 75 percent and pay no fed or state taxes if they go out on a disability.  Its a complete scam on the taxpayer.

agreed...I hope Gov Cuomo puts a stop to this but I'm not optimistic..I may have to leave NY state soon

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2011, 02:16:12 PM »
Cuomo is doing a good job so far.

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2011, 02:19:57 PM »
Cuomo is doing a good job so far.
[/quote}   



He is, but its all talk so far..no action yet....plus Sheldon Silver has more power than the Governor...if Shelly doesn't go along nothing gets done

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2011, 02:41:01 PM »
The property taxes in ny are beyond criminal and its killing everything.  Silver needs to gwt out of the way.  People can't affoerd this chaos anymore.

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2011, 06:27:04 PM »
The property taxes in ny are beyond criminal and its killing everything.  Silver needs to gwt out of the way.  People can't affoerd this chaos anymore.



New York could actually become a powerhouse state again if it would do like Texas and Florida and drop the state income tax.....people would begin moving back and corporations would be coming here in droves

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2011, 06:32:00 PM »
I know a few cops who are fleecing the system so bad you would scream. 

Until we get this situation with OT and padding pensions the last three years w obscene ot and other chaos, things will never change.

Same with the LIRR, did you see the scam those bums pulled with all of them going out on disability right before retirement? 

Unreal. 

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2011, 06:34:51 PM »
It just seems like no one is in control here in NY when it comes to state and city workers pulling these scams.....where are the supervisors?...how come they aren't being held accountable???

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2011, 06:39:21 PM »
Those people don't say squat because they rely upon these govt unions and their members for support and money for elections.  Its awful. 

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2011, 08:01:06 PM »
The Illinois Pension Nightmare ($3.7 Billion needed to pay for just one year!)
Economic Policy Journal ^ | 02/18/2011 | Economic Policy Journal



The state of Illinois hopes to issue $3.7 billion in bonds, next week. The funds will be used to pay this year's pension payments.

Writes NYT, which is starting to get the picture of the serious problems in the muni market:


(Excerpt) Read more at economicpolicyjournal.co m ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2011, 08:05:20 PM »
as a teacher in my last year working.... i remember the staff in the office telling me to take every friday off til the end of the year to use up those sick days I had accrued.   I was a full-time student by that point in masters program, so i happily accepted... but it just seemed so weird... it wasn't the secretary's money, so she didn't care.  

Supplies that went without being inventoried... computers that just walked away.  every classroom "Needing" a "smart board", a $20k to $40 system to replace overhead transparencies.

I'm no expert... but there definitely seemed like a ton of waste going on.  I have no idea how it is sustainable.

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2011, 08:35:17 PM »
City taxpayers foot 90% of municipal pensions
By SUSAN EDELMAN



Last Updated: 6:16 PM, July 11, 2010

Posted: 2:10 AM, July 11, 2010

Taxpayers kick in an average $8.60 for every dollar that city employees contribute to their pensions, a sweet deal costing the Big Apple a bundle.

Even though their own retirements are less secure, as private businesses have shifted from traditional pensions to riskier savings plans like 401(k)s, taxpayers' support for rock-solid public employee pension plans is growing. That's because pension funds are guaranteed to grow 8 percent a year -- and taxpayers have to make up the difference if they don't.

Taxpayers' share of city pension costs has skyrocketed more than 900 percent in the last decade -- from $703.1 million in 2000 to $6.5 billion in 2009, according to the city comptroller's annual reports.

The cost is expected to hit $7.6 billion this fiscal year and $8.7 billion next year.

BIG DIPPERS: CITY UNION CHIEFS PULL TWO SALARIES

"It's a double-whammy for taxpayers," said E.J. McMahon, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

"If they're privately employed, they shoulder the risks of saving for their own retirement. At the same time, they have to pay a steadily mounting cost of guaranteed pensions for government workers."

Teachers get the biggest bang for their pension contributions -- the city puts in $15.50 for every $1 they contribute.

Taxpayers pay $10 for every $1 firefighters put in, $9 for every $1 from cops and $5.60 for every $1 from transit, sanitation and other civil servants, the 2009 report shows.

"The cost has risen because employee benefits were dramatically increased in 2000, just as the [stock] market began to collapse," said John Murphy, former executive director of the New York City Employee Retirement System, NYCERS, the largest city pension fund.

"In retrospect, it was one of the most irresponsible things to have done," he said.

Many private companies cut back or suspended matching contributions to employee 401(k) plans after the most recent dramatic market downturn in 2008. Some have begun to restore contributions, depending on profits.

Teachers hired after 2008 contribute 4.85 percent of their salaries for their first 10 years, then 1.85 percent a year thereafter.

Cops and firefighters make annual pension contributions depending on their age at swearing in, at most 8 percent at age 20. But in a benefit called "Increased Take Home Pay," the city subsidizes 5 percent of that.

Cops and firefighters are guaranteed an 8.25 percent return on their contributions, and can take loans from the plans up to twice a year,at 4 percent interest.

It's only fair, said Anthony Garvey, who recently retired as executive director of the Police Pension Fund.

He said the benefits befit the Finest and Bravest who risk "getting shot or running into burning buildings."

Retire it's on us

Taxpayers kicked in $7.35 billion to the city pension funds last fiscal year, while employees contributed $853.5 million.

An average of: $8.60 to $1

TEACHERS
Average pension: $54,268
Taxpayer contribution: $15.50 to $1

FIREFIGHTERS
Average pension: $53,347
Taxpayer contribution: $10 to $1

POLICE
Average pension: $41,319
Taxpayer contribution: $9.13 to $1

SANIT., TRANSIT, OTHER
Average pension: $24,889
Taxpayer contribution: $5.60 to $1

Source: Comprehensive Annual Financial Report of the NYC Comptroller for fiscal year 2009.

susan.edelman@nypost.com


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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2011, 04:54:09 AM »
Feb. 9, 2011, 9:49 p.m. EST

Fire, Police Unions Fight for Bonuses
By Sean Gardiner and Michael Howard Saul



New York City's police and fire departments have a historic rivalry.

Their commissioners have clashed in the recent past over jurisdictional issues like which department should take the lead in a disaster. There have been debates and hearings over who should be the primary agency in certain emergencies such as pulling people out of the East River. Every year they hold a "Battle of the Badges" event in which cops box firefighters in Madison Square Garden and the fighting among the two agencies rarely is contained to the boxing ring.

But on Wednesday the heads of the police and firefighter unions stood shoulder-to-shoulder on the steps of City Hall united against Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who they both called a "liar." What brought the rivals together? Money.

For the past month, Mr. Bloomberg has renewed a call to eliminate a $12,000-a-year pension supplement for about 60,000 retired police officers and firefighters that the mayor has repeatedly called "Christmas bonuses." Mr. Bloomberg said the city is "now kicking in more than $600 million a year to subsidize it" at a time when they're trying to close a $2 to $4 billion budget gap for the upcoming fiscal year.

"Nobody wants to get cut back—I understand that," Mr. Bloomberg said on Wednesday.

But, he said, "We have to make a decision. Do we want to send out Christmas bonuses or have more teachers? It's that kind of decision."

At their joint news conference, Stephen Cassidy, president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of Greater New York, and Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, bristled at the suggestion that Variable Supplement Fund pension payouts were "bonuses."

"He suggests it's a Christmas bonus as if the city is reaching into its general fund and giving the police officers and firefighters a Christmas bonus," Mr. Lynch said. "No. That is our money."

The union chiefs said that the Variable Supplement Fund payouts date back to negotiated contracts between the city and the fire and police unions in the late 1960s. At that point Mayor John Lindsay wanted the ability to invest money the city was setting aside for police and fire pensions in the stock market. At that time, the law required that the pension-fund money could only be invested in fixed-income securities like bonds and mortgages. In exchange, the unions sought to increase their pensions from 50% of their final salaries to 60% percent.

Instead of agreeing to the union's demands, Robert Linn, a labor-negotiations consultant, said a deal was struck in 1968 in which the fire and police unions allowed the city to invest their pension money in the stock market in exchange for receiving an enhanced pension payout. Since the payout was based on a percentage of the profits from what the city made on their stock market investments, initially the deal was seen as a "win-win" for city and unions.

But PBA officials said their retired officers received only minimal and intermittent payouts for the first dozen years of the deal because the stock market performed poorly during the 1970s. However, a boom in the market in the mid-1980s inflated the amount of in the Variable Supplement Fund by hundreds of millions of dollars, money which could have resulted in their retirees receiving payouts of $20,000 or more a year, the officials said.

Mr. Linn, who was also New York City's Director of Labor Relations from 1983 to 1989, said that from the city's perspective the 1968 deal ultimately favored the unions, who shared in any profits but were not responsible for compensating any downturns in the market. And when the market took off in the 1980s the city was facing large payouts.

"The administration was clear that we wanted to change this benefit," said Mr. Linn, who served under Mayor Edward Koch. "We thought the benefit from the '60s was potentially an explosive cost and we wanted to set it at a fixed cost."

A major stock market crash in 1987, which appeared to have wiped out all the gains to the fund, gave city negotiators, like Linn, the opening they needed to convince police and fire union officials to accept a fixed benefit for their members instead of a return that was tied to market profits.

The fixed pension supplement paid the retired firefighters and police officers $2,500 a year. The amount, it was agreed, would go up by $500 a year until maxing out in 2007 at $12,000 a year per retiree. Right now there are approximately 60,000 police officers and firefighters eligible for the pension supplement, Mssrs. Lynch and Cassidy said. Under the terms of the 1988 deal, they are to receive this payout for life.

Mr. Linn said that no one at the negotiating tables 22 years ago could have projected that the stock market would have taken off as it did, increasing six-fold over the next 20 years. But because it did, Mr. Linn said the deal he negotiated "saved the city billions of dollars. It turned out to be a tremendous savings to the city."

However, a spokesman for the mayor, Marc LaVorgna, added that these days, "The fund does not pay for itself." "It's city taxpayers funding it and unfortunately it's no longer something we can afford."

Mr. Lynch said that as part of the deal the city also was allowed to take $75 million from the pension funds to be used for other city expenses. Mr. Cassidy said as part of the deal firefighters agree to push back to five the number of years it took for future hires to reach top pay. He said that concession alone saved the city "billions of dollars" over the years.

Mssrs. Lynch and Cassidy say that their predecessors who negotiated the deal in 1988 were widely criticized by their memberships for taking a too conservative approach. They said that for two decades the city has reaped the benefits of the deal which is estimated to have provided the city with more than $1 billion in funds to invest over the years. Any recent financial problems the city is facing, the union heads say, are because of poor investments not the Variable Supplement Fund payments.

"A deal was struck," said Mr. Cassidy. "If he [the mayor] doesn't like it, too bad. It's a deal."

Write to Sean Gardiner at sean.gardiner@wsj.com and Michael Howard Saul at michael.saul@wsj.com

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/story/print?guid=da8598fa-3491-11e0-bdc8-012128040cf6


________________________ ________________________ _______


Someone again remind me why Madoff is in Jail? 

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2011, 05:25:34 AM »
Gov. Cuomo speech drowned out with Charles Barron-led yells of 'Tax the Rich!'
Ny Daily News ^ | 2/21/11 | GLENN BLAIN


________________________ ________________________ _____-


Gov. Cuomo's speech on Sunday night to the Association of Black and Puerto Rican Legislators was interrupted with chants of "Tax the rich!" led by City Councilman Charles Barron.

Cuomo received a warm welcome as he began to address the group, but within moments Barron (D-Brooklyn) did a Kanye West and stole the spotlight.

"Shame on you," Barron yelled at Cuomo after walking from the back of the Albany Convention Center to the front.

"Stop the cuts," Barron said.


(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2011, 06:39:10 AM »
Barron is an idiot who is basically out to serve himself..he has no credibility whatsoever

whork25

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2011, 06:45:08 AM »
Barron= A little Bitch

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2011, 07:17:52 AM »
50 Wisconsins. There are 49 more states waiting to erupt
National Review ^ | 02/21/2011 | Kevin Williamson






There are 49 more Wisconsins waiting to erupt. At least half the states are positioned to be bankrupted by their government-employee pension systems, but even the best-governed states are facing insolvency because of a factor that is mostly beyond their control: Medicaid. It’s interesting that the first battle is being fought in Wisconsin, but that is mainly because Illinois, the true-blue embodiment of fiscal imprudence, has basically surrendered without a fight.

What does this mean for near-term politics? Leave it to USA Today to get it exactly wrong:

In last year’s congressional elections, AFSCME, the largest public-employee union, gave $2.2 million to Democrats and $10,000 to Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan group that tracks money in politics. In 2008, AFSCME, founded in Wisconsin in 1932, spent $2.3 million opposing Sen. John McCain, Obama’s Republican opponent.

Union support will be vital to Democrats next year, especially in battleground states such as Wisconsin, to offset the flow of corporate funds into campaigns allowed by a 2010 Supreme Court decision. Last year, 11.9% of U.S. workers were represented by unions, down from 20% in 1983, the Labor Department says.

“Offset the flow of corporate funds.” This is the old “Big Business Backs Republicans” canard. It is not true. It has not been true for a long time. It would be difficult to find any Big Business sector that backs Republicans as lopsidedly as unions back Democrats. (And let me remind you for the 11,000th time that Barack Obama & Co. were carried to power on a wave of Wall Street money, with Goldman Sachs leading the way.)

For instance, take the software industry, a very big business indeed. Out of the five biggest recipients of the software racket’s political money in 2009–10, all five were Democrats: Patty Murray, Suzan DelBene, Barbara Boxer, Charles Schumer, and Harry Reid.

What about the mortgage bankers and the real-estate gang, a.k.a. the Committee to Reinflate the Bubble? Three out of five of the bankers’ top recipients in the last cycle were Democrats — Paul Kanjorski, John Adler, and Barney Frank, purported scourge of the banking world. The real-estate lobby’s top recipients were three Democrats — Schumer again, Alexander Giannoulias, and Kirsten Gillibrand — one independent trying to defeat a Republican — Charlie Crist — and one Republican — Carly Fiorina.

What about the fine gentlemen of the private-equity industry, fighting tooth and talon to defend the carried-interest tax rules that give them an enviably low tax rate? Their top dogs were Democrats Schumer (again!) Gillibrand (again!), Reid (again!) Michael Bennet, and one Republican, Mark Kirk.

Republicans do kill with dentists and coal miners. (Although Democrat Joe Manchin was the blacklung lobby’s No. 2 recipient.)

When people scream about the wicked evil corporations and their influence in Washington, they usually are really talking about the FIRE businesses — that’s finance, insurance, and real estate. Taken together, these industries do, at the moment, slightly favor Republicans, though their two largest recipients were — see if you can guess — Schumer and Gillibrand, again and again. But it is a myth that Republicans own Wall Street, or that Wall Street owns Republicans. As Open Secrets puts it: “The sector contributes generous sums to both parties, with Republicans traditionally collecting more than Democrats. Yet in the past two election cycles, bankers have suddenly shifted their cash toward Democrats.” But look at the charts for 1990 through 2010: hardly a runaway advantage for the Republicans, and nothing like the 220-to-1 advantage the Democrats enjoy when it comes to treasury-raiding union goons like AFSCME.

The narrative of Wall Street vs. Labor in the race to buy political influence is a false one. As often as not, Wall Street and Labor are on the same side, as they were when they helped elect Barack Obama.

What do Wall Street titans and Wisconsin government employees have in common? Above-average incomes, for one thing, and tight relationships with government that help them to maintain them. You bailed out the first gang of miscreants in 2008, and a lot of them came back for more. You bailed out the second gang of miscreants under the stimulus, and a lot of them are coming back for more, too. And they will keep coming back for more until one of two things happens:

A. There’s no money left, or

B. We stop them.

My money’s on A. Where’s yours?

— Kevin D. Williamson is a deputy managing editor of National Review and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism, just published by Regnery.


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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2011, 07:22:06 AM »
State workers to rally for pensions, pay (Oklahoma)
Tulsa World ^ | 2/21/2011 | Staff






Hundreds of state employees are expected at the Oklahoma Capitol to urge lawmakers to retain their pension benefits and implement a total compensation package that would include better salaries.

Although Monday, President's Day, is a state holiday, the state House of Representatives and the Oklahoma Senate will be in session.

Legislative leaders say reforming state pension systems is a top priority this year because of their collective $16.5 billion unfunded liability. But state workers want their pension benefits to remain as they are, according to officials at the Oklahoma Public Employees Association, which represents about 10,000 of the state's 36,000 workers.

State workers also want better salaries. The OPEA says state workers' salaries are on average 16 percent below salaries in the private sector.


(Excerpt) Read more at tulsaworld.com ...


________________________ ________________________ ___


Amazing - the private sector has dealt with ths horrible economy for over 3 years now and these pieces of shit and mini-madoffs areonl now realizing the gig is up? 


I have not an ounce of sympathy for these people.  None.     

andreisdaman

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2011, 07:34:02 AM »
no sympathy here as well..I haven't had a raise in 6 years....

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2011, 08:18:23 PM »
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Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector

By Yuval Levin

http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/260241


Posted on February 21, 2011 9:38 AM


Governor Scott Walker has already achieved something significant in Wisconsin—by focusing on both the level of government-worker benefits and their power to bargain collectively for those benefits, he has brought union officials and (apparently) many public employees in his state to say that they would accept benefit cuts. They are taking their stand, instead, on the power to bargain collectively for future benefits (rather than only for wages). This, union officials (as well as many observers around the country, including President Obama) insist is a basic right, and the effort to curtail it is (in Obama’s words) “an assault on unions” that would leave workers unprotected. And anyway, they argue, collective-bargaining rights have nothing to do with the problems confronting Wisconsin and other states.
 
But this ignores the crucial differences between public and private workers—differences that give public employees enormous advantages over both their employers and their private-sector counterparts, and that argue against collective bargaining in the public sector. Daniel DiSalvo very ably and thoroughly explains some of those differences here.
 
Put simply, public employees (even when they are not organized, let alone able to bargain collectively) have some major advantages over their private-sector counterparts. They are guarded by generous civil-service protections—the most significant of which predate public-sector unionism, having been put in place, ironically, to combat the inclination of urban political machines to use the public sector as a powerbase. And most government employees work in non-competitive fields where their employer has a monopoly, so their jobs are not threatened by competitors, and are not dependent on their ability to work efficiently and so keep their employer competitive.

When they organize—merely as an interest group, quite apart from formal collective bargaining—they have several more immense advantages. By leveraging their numbers and resources, their organizations can become major players in politics. At election time, public employees can therefore play a large role in choosing their own employers or bosses (by getting certain people elected and not others), which of course no private-sector union can do. At all levels of government today, public-worker unions are among the biggest political donors. Between elections, they can use that political power to influence those elected officials and the political process more generally to improve their pay, benefits, or conditions, and also to increase demand for their services through legislation that increases the size or role of government (as the California prison guards union was instrumental in passing the state’s three-strikes law, for instance) or that prevents competition (as the teachers’ unions do in opposing school-choice programs). In all these ways, public workers have enormous powers that private workers could not dream of, and all without actual formal collective bargaining.
 
When you add collective bargaining to that mix, the unions gain the power to make in private negotiations decisions that should be made in public deliberations—decisions about public priorities and public budgets. And they turn public employees into a formal procedural adversary of the public they serve. This presents some serious problems to our democratic system, problems that traditionally kept even the biggest advocates of unionism from supporting collective bargaining with the government. This is why Franklin Roosevelt said that “collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.” It is why George Meany (the first president of the AFL-CIO) said it was “impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
 
Public employees in many states (and to a limited extent also at the federal level) are nonetheless permitted to bargain collectively for precisely the reasons above: they gained that permission as their unions gained political power over the years. And they have often used their collective bargaining powers to increase not only their members’ pay (an increase which shows up rather directly and immediately in public budgets) but also their benefits, and especially retirement benefits (which often do not show up on the books for years and so are easier to get from cash-strapped public officials). As DiSalvo notes in his essay:
 
since 2002, for every $1-an-hour pay increase, public employees have gotten $1.17 in new benefits; private-sector workers, meanwhile, have received just 58 cents in added benefits. Of special interest to the unions has been health care: Across the nation, 86% of state- and local-government workers have access to employer-provided health insurance, while only 45% of private-sector workers do. In many cases, these plans involve meager contributions from employees, or none at all — in New Jersey, for instance, 88% of public-school teachers pay nothing toward their insurance premiums.
 
And many of these benefits continue to be provided to retired employees, not only current ones. This is why many governors eager to get their finances under control have had to start by confronting public employees, and it is why Wisconsin’s governor has targeted his efforts on one important cause of the problem—collective bargaining for benefits. Walker would not even strip state employees of the power to bargain collectively for wages, only for benefits which are easier to hide from the public. And he would not, of course, strip them of their other great advantages over private-sector workers, which are functions of their rights as citizens who also happen to be employed by the government they elect, and so could not be taken from them.
 
The notion that this involves an assault on some inalienable right to collective bargaining with the public is preposterous. Such collective bargaining is a privilege public workers have obtained by exercising their political muscle, and state officials around the country are right to try to roll it back to the extent they can.
 
In the long run, the real solution to the growing conflict between public employees and the public they work for is to limit the government’s size and reach and to contract out more of its remaining functions to the private sector, so as not only to increase the government’s efficiency but also to minimize the conflict between its obligations to the people it serves and its obligations to the people it employs. But in the meantime, it is also necessary and appropriate to pare back some of the enormous power built up by public workers over the past few decades.

 



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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2011, 03:15:54 PM »
Thousands Rally Under Capitol Dome In Olympia(Washington State)
KIROTV ^ | February 21, 2011 | KIROTV



OLYMPIA, Wash. -- Union members, students, parents and even former presidential candidate Rep. Dennis Kucinich rallied in Olympia on Monday, taking advantage of the holiday to lobby against budget cuts and to show solidarity with Wisconsin's embattled union for state employees.


The Washington State Patrol estimated that 2,000 people rallied under the Capitol Dome, said KIRO 7 Eyewitness News Senior Political reporter Essex Porter.

Washington state employees chanted, sang songs and waved signs in the Capitol Rotunda in a rally supporting unions and state employees in Wisconsin. Ohio Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich addressed the group wearing a union T-shirt from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

Several other groups took advantage of the Presidents Day holiday to demonstrate -- college students urging funding for higher education and the Washington State PTA asking legislators to protect students from budget cuts.

Last week, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker targeted public employees in a massive budget cut proposal, calling for cuts to their benefits and limiting their ability to collectively bargain on wage issues. Walker has said his proposal is about cutting state and local spending for years to come, but acknowledges that if approved, it could cripple unions.

Kucinich said he hoped the rally in Olympia would ripple across the country to show solidarity to union workers in Wisconsin.

"You cannot have a democracy if you don't have people in a position to be able to negotiate for their wages and to have decent benefits," Kucinich said, lauding Washington as being a "bastion for workers' rights," where people have the capacity to push back.

Washington is one of the most unionized states in the country, according to a January U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics report.

Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown, D-Spokane, reminded the crowd that collective bargaining ended child labor and created the 40-hour work week.

"Collective bargaining is not the problem," she said.

Most state employees have Monday off and Tuesday is an unpaid furlough day.


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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2011, 07:19:16 PM »
Updated: Tue., Feb. 22, 2011, 3:18 PM 
Battle of Wisconsin: Proxy civil war
By MICHAEL A. WALSH



Posted: 10:00 PM, February 21, 2011

Let's be clear about what's at stake in Wisconsin, where the battle between Gov. Scott Walker and the public-employees' unions is now well and truly joined. It's not just about balancing the state budget, nor simply about collective bargaining. It's not even about the future of the labor movement.

It's about the future of the country and who is to be master -- the voters or the "public servants."

Wisconsin is a test battleground in the War of 2012, with both sides pouring in men and materiel in a proxy fight. It's the Tea Party, as represented by Walker and the state Republicans, versus a labor-union/political racket as morally rancid as anything in "On the Waterfront," fronted by the "sick" teachers and abetted by President Obama and his Organizing for America community agitators.

Obama and the Democrats understand full well the importance of this fight: Without public-sector union support, they're in big trouble. After all, such unions have only been generally legal since the '60s, and -- given the political will -- can be rolled back.

"For this generation of union members, the attack on Wisconsin's public sector represents our Pearl Harbor," said John Samuelsen, president of local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, who's promised to lead a delegation from New York to Madison. "We in the labor movement cannot allow this to happen."

Nor can the Democrats. Unions such as the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the National Education Association and the Service Employees International Union give hundreds of millions of dollars to Democrats -- some $171 million in 2010 alone. They give almost nothing to Republicans.

Where does that money come from? From union members' dues. In what is effectively a criminal enterprise were it not for the moment legal, public-union leaders negotiate ever-larger pay and benefits from the very politicians to whom they then kick back "campaign contributions." All at taxpayer expense.

What Walker is trying to do is break this vicious cycle. He'd limit collective bargaining for most public unions (exempting cops and firefighters) to wages only -- excluding pensions, benefits and work rules. He'd also get the state out of the union-dues collection business and force the unions to be re-certified by a vote of their membership each year.

For his effrontery in trying to close a $3.6 billion deficit, he has been rewarded with hordes of noisy protesters, schoolchildren used as human shields by their teachers and the spectacle of cowardly Democratic state senators fleeing the jurisdiction for the People's Republic of Illinois.

The unions have already capitulated on Walker's demands to start contributing to their pension and health-care costs. But they're digging in on the collective bargaining issues -- which tells you exactly what's really at stake in this dispute: their political muscle.

The outcome in Madison will determine what happens around the country -- not just in Ohio, the likely next battleground, or New York and California, but also in Washington, DC.

It's a fight the nation's private sector can't afford to lose.

"All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public-personnel management. The very nature and purposes of government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with government-employee organizations. The employer is the whole people . . . "

Walker? House Speaker John Boehner? No, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, back in 1937.


George Whorewell

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2011, 08:42:06 PM »
Charles Barron is the most eloquent ape I have ever come in contact with since SAMSON broke out of the Bronx Zoo and defecated on the curb next to where my car was parked.

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2011, 08:44:16 PM »
Barons' rant gave cuomo probably 2 extra points in the polls. 

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2011, 09:09:37 PM »
FL Gov Rick Scott just said there is nothing wrong with Collective bargaining...

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Re: Pensions and Benes for Unionized Public Employees are next bubble to pop.
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2011, 04:30:33 AM »
Post the whole article 240. 

Regardless of what he said, the idea the public unions even exist is insane. Its another part of the reason this nation is on the verge of collapse on a state and municipal level.
Of course I don't expect libs and like minded mini-maddoffs to grasp basic math, but come on already!  Should we wait until the whole nation is in ambers before acknowledging reality ?