Author Topic: Obama's illegal war  (Read 70420 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #375 on: April 02, 2011, 04:19:17 AM »
Obama: 'No Amount of American Lives' Can Resolve 'Someone Else's Civil War'
CNS News ^ | 3/31/2011 | Eric Scheiner




(CNSNews.com) - During the official announcement of his presidential campaign in Chicago, then Senator Barack Obama said, “no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreement that lies at the heart of someone else's civil war.”

At the time Obama was speaking about his opposition to the war in Iraq, “Most of you know that I opposed this war from the start. I thought it was a tragic mistake,” Obama said to a crowd at the Springfield, Illinois town square on Feb. 10, 2007.

“Today we grieve for the families who have lost loved ones, the hearts that have been broken and the young lives that could have been. America it is time to start bringing our troops home. It's time to admit that no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreement that lies at the heart of someone else's civil war. That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008.”

The comments are very different from those in his March 28, 2011 speech. President Obama justified sending U.S. military lives into action in Libya’s civil war saying, ”Qaddafi declared he would show ‘no mercy’ to his own people. He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment. In the past, we have seen him hang civilians in the streets, and kill over a thousand people in a single day. Now we saw regime forces on the outskirts of the city. We knew that if we wanted -- if we waited one more day, Benghazi, a city nearly the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world. It was not in our national interest to let that happen. I refused to let that happen. “



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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #376 on: April 02, 2011, 05:07:42 AM »
NATO probing reports of airstrike on Libya rebels (NATO bombing their own allies)
yahoo ^ | 4/2/2011 | By BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS



NATO said Saturday that it was investigating Libyan rebel reports that a coalition warplane had struck a rebel position that was firing into the air near the front line of the battle with Moammar Gadhafi's forces.

Rebels told The Associated Press that a group of opposition fighters was hit by an airstrike about 12 miles (20 kilometers) east of the town of Brega Friday night.

Mohammad Bedrise, a doctor in a nearby hospital, said three burned bodies had been brought in by men who said they had been hit after firing a heavy machine gun in the air in celebration. Idris Kadiki, a 38-year-old mechanical engineer, said he had seen an ambulance and three cars burning after an airstrike.

NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said the coaliton was looking into the reports.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #377 on: April 02, 2011, 06:09:26 AM »
Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels (Obama allied with Al Qaeda terrorists)
Wall Street Journal ^ | 4/2/11 | CHARLES LEVINSON




Two former Afghan Mujahedeen and a six-year detainee at Guantanamo Bay have stepped to the fore of this city's military campaign, training new recruits for the front and to protect the city from infiltrators loyal to Col. Moammar Gadhafi.

The presence of Islamists like these amid the opposition has raised concerns, among some fellow rebels as well as their Western allies, that the goal of some Libyan fighters in battling Col. Gadhafi is to propagate Islamist extremism.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #378 on: April 02, 2011, 08:51:30 AM »
Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels (Obama allied with Al Qaeda terrorists)
Wall Street Journal ^ | 4/2/11 | CHARLES LEVINSON




Two former Afghan Mujahedeen and a six-year detainee at Guantanamo Bay have stepped to the fore of this city's military campaign, training new recruits for the front and to protect the city from infiltrators loyal to Col. Moammar Gadhafi.

The presence of Islamists like these amid the opposition has raised concerns, among some fellow rebels as well as their Western allies, that the goal of some Libyan fighters in battling Col. Gadhafi is to propagate Islamist extremism.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


Nothing to be worried about. There is no Islamist presence among the rebels*. They just want western democracy.

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #379 on: April 02, 2011, 08:57:32 AM »
NATO probing reports of airstrike on Libya rebels (NATO bombing their own allies)
yahoo ^ | 4/2/2011 | By BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS



HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAA

We're bombing both sides.  Fuck em all!  Now we're talking!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #380 on: April 02, 2011, 12:51:51 PM »
Libyan Rebels Seek Cease-Fire After U.S. Vows to Withdraw Jets
By Thomas Penny and Patrick Donahue - Apr 1, 2011



Libya’s opposition called for a cease-fire after the U.S. said it’s withdrawing aircraft used to attack Muammar Qaddafi’s forces following adverse weather that prevented strikes allowing Libyan loyalists to push back rebels.

Libya’s rebels would accept a cease-fire if their demands for freedoms are met, said Mustafa Abdel Jalil, head of the rebel National Transitional Council, during a news conference televised today from their stronghold of Benghazi. Any agreement would have to involve Qaddafi’s fighters withdrawing from cities and their surrounding areas, he said.

The rebel move comes one day after Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said U.S. jets, won’t be flying with NATO forces over Libya after April 2. Mullen said planes would be made available only if requested by NATO. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates told Congress the U.S. will “significantly ramp down our commitment” to Libya except for electronic warfare, aerial refueling and surveillance.

Rebels have been in retreat for three days as Qaddafi’s troops regain the initiative after almost two weeks of allied air strikes against them. This week’s recapture of the oil port Ras Lanuf by Qaddafi forces underscored the military weakness of his opponents. Intensive fighting continues around another oil port, Brega, which is under Libyan rebel control, Al Arabiya television reported.

“Seems to me, we are not doing everything necessary in order to achieve our policy goals and including relieving what is happening to the anti-Qaddafi forces,” Senator John McCain said at the hearing in Congress yesterday with Mullen and Gates. “I hope we don’t learn a bitter lesson from it.”

Can’t See Targets
Mullen said poor weather over the past three days in Libya meant pilots “can’t get on the targets; they can’t see the targets.”

Oil rose to a 30-month high in New York as economic data from China spurred hope of growing demand in the world’s biggest energy user and fighting in Libya fanned concern that output cuts may spread to Middle East producers. Crude for May delivery rose as much as 93 cents to $107.65 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the highest front- month price since Sept. 26, 2008. It was at $107.06 at 11:34 a.m. London time.

“It’s quiet today but there are snipers present and yesterday night a number of mortar rounds were fired and there was indiscriminate shelling from tanks as well,” Reda Almountasser, a resident in the western city of Misrata whose residents rose up against Qaddafi and have defied efforts by his forces to regain control, said in a telephone interview.

Rebel Leaders
U.S. political and military leaders said they’re unwilling to start providing arms and training for rebels fighting against Qaddafi. Mullen said there are “plenty of countries who have the ability, the arms, the skill set to be able to do this.” Gates said the U.S. doesn’t know enough about the insurgent groups beyond a “handful” of leaders.

“The rebels need more heavy weapons,” said Jan Techau, director of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Brussels and a former analyst at the NATO Defense College. “They need simple stuff -- not high-tech weaponry that requires extensive training and would be dangerous if it fell into terrorist hands.”

The conflict in Libya, which began as a wave of anti- government protests similar to those in Egypt and Tunisia, escalated into armed conflict as the country’s army split and some soldiers joined the rebels. Oil prices have risen more than 25 percent since fighting began in mid-February.

‘Desperation, Fear’
U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said the defection of Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa on March 30 is evidence of “the desperation and the fear right at the heart of the crumbling and rotten Qaddafi regime.” He said the former minister hasn’t been offered immunity. The Scottish prosecutor’s office said it wanted to interview Koussa about the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over the Scottish town of Lockerbie that killed 270 people.

While dozens of Libyan diplomats have quit since the uprising against Qaddafi began, Koussa is one of the most senior officials to flee. Libya’s former deputy ambassador to the United Nations, Ibrahim Dabbashi, said more diplomats and senior-ranking Libyans are likely to defect from the Qaddafi regime “within days,” Sky News reported, adding that up to 10 top Libyan officials may abandon the regime.

Another senior Libyan official, Mohammed Ismail, visited London in recent days for confidential talks, the Guardian reported today citing unidentified U.K. officials.

Gates said he saw several end-game scenarios involving Qaddafi.

‘Family Kills Him’
“One is that a member of his own family kills him, or one of his inner circle kills him, or the military fractures, or the opposition, with the degradation of Qaddafi’s military capabilities rise up again,” Gates said.

North Atlantic Treaty Organization jets carried out more than 90 missions yesterday, Charles Bouchard, the Canadian air force general commanding the operation, said via videolink from Naples, Italy. A total of 20 of the 28 member states of the alliance are expected to contribute forces in the initial stages, NATO said. Germany has declined to take part.

Qaddafi said Western air strikes could lead to a war between Christians and Muslims that could spiral out of control, Sky News reported, citing a statement by the Libyan leader broadcast by state television.

To contact the reporters on this story: Thomas Penny in London at tpenny@bloomberg.net; Patrick Donahue in Berlin at Pdonahue1@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Andrew J. Barden at barden@bloomberg.net
.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #381 on: April 03, 2011, 02:09:10 PM »
Libya: Stalemate around Libyan oil town of Brega
bbc.co.uk/ ^ | April 3 2011 | BBC




The east Libyan oil town of Brega has seen continued fighting between rebels and forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi.

A BBC correspondent near the town says an uneasy stalemate is developing, days after a Nato air strike on a rebel convoy killed at least 13 people.


(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #382 on: April 03, 2011, 03:39:16 PM »

NATO to U.S.: We Need More Strikes in Libya
U.S. Agrees to Continue Combat Missions; Lack of U.S. Strikes Blamed for Rebel Losses


WASHINGTON, April 3, 2011

 NATO has asked the United States to continue
participating in airstrikes over Libya through late
Monday, ABC News has learned.

This was done to make up for the bad weather earlier
in the week that had hampered targeting of Gadhafi
forces and allowed them to push the rebels back to
Ajdabiyah.

The United States was supposed to have significantly
begun dropping its participation in airstrikes over
Libya.

"Due to poor weather conditions over the last few
days in Libya, the United States has approved a
request by NATO to extend the use of some U.S. strike
aircraft," NATO spokeswoman Oana Lungescu told
ABC News. "These aircraft will continue to conduct
and support Alliance air-to-ground missions
throughout this weekend."

A U.S. Defense Department official said the aircraft
Lungescu was referring to are the A-10 Thunderbolt
jets, Marine AV-8 Harrier jets and AC-130 gunships,
which are the best suited for striking ground force
targets.

During testimony on Capitol Hill Thursday, Defense
Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs of Staff
Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen said that beginning
Saturday these aircraft would be on stand-by mode if
NATO commanders requested them. That appears to
have happened.

Several senators at Thursday's hearing were upset to
hear the news, saying U.S. timing to scale back
participation was unfortunate given the ongoing rout
of the rebels.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., sarcastically called the
timing "exquisite."

Another Defense official said the NATO request was
specifically tied to making up for the bad weather that
"prohibited strikes from being as effective as they
might have been and allowed Gadhafi's forces to take
 advantage and regain territory."

This official said there was no drop off in U.S. strike
participation as had been anticipated.

New numbers show there was not a dropoff in U.S.
flights Saturday.

Through 6 a.m. ET, there were 81 U.S. flights,
including 40 strike flights and 40 support missions.

Three Harrier jets were involved in missions Saturday,
a Defense official said.

A number of U.S. combat forces had been scheduled
cease operations today, including U.S. Navy
destroyers and submarines that have been launching
Tomahawk cruise missiles from the Mediterranean.

Military experts said that America's reduced role in
enforcing the Libyan no-fly zone could cripple efforts
to keep Gadhafi's forces from battering the rag-tag
army trying to topple him.

They said they fear that without U.S. willingness to go
after Gadhafi's troops and equipment from the air,
and without U.S. ground controllers pinpointing
targets, the effort to shield the rebels will fail.

 advertisement  By LUIS MARTINEZ

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #383 on: April 03, 2011, 06:18:54 PM »
April 3, 2011
Obama's 'Bloodbath': Can We Believe the Hype?
By Steve Chapman



Remember when a crusading president, acting on dubious intelligence, insufficient information and exaggerated fears, took the nation into a Middle Eastern war of choice? That was George W. Bush in 2003, invading Iraq. But it's also Barack Obama in 2011, attacking Libya.

For weeks, President Obama had been wary of military action. What obviously changed his mind was the fear that Moammar Gadhafi was bent on mass slaughter -- which stemmed from Gadhafi's March 17 speech vowing "no mercy" for his enemies.

 
In his March 26 radio address, Obama said the United States acted because Gadhafi threatened "a bloodbath." Two days later, he asserted, "We knew that if we waited one more day, Benghazi -- a city nearly the size of Charlotte -- could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world."

Really? Obama implied that, absent our intervention, Gadhafi might have killed nearly 700,000 people, putting it in a class with the 1994 genocide in Rwanda. White House adviser Dennis Ross was only slightly less alarmist when he reportedly cited "the real or imminent possibility that up to a 100,000 people could be massacred."

But these are outlandish scenarios that go beyond any reasonable interpretation of Gadhafi's words. He said, "We will have no mercy on them" -- but by "them," he plainly was referring to armed rebels ("traitors") who stand and fight, not all the city's inhabitants.

"We have left the way open to them," he said. "Escape. Let those who escape go forever." He pledged that "whoever hands over his weapons, stays at home without any weapons, whatever he did previously, he will be pardoned, protected."

Alan Kuperman, an associate professor at the University of Texas' Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, is among those unconvinced by Obama's case. "Gadhafi," he told me, "did not massacre civilians in any of the other big cities he captured -- Zawiyah, Misratah, Ajdabiya -- which together have a population equal to Benghazi. Yes, civilians were killed in a typical, ham-handed Third World counter-insurgency. But civilians were not targeted for massacre as in Rwanda, Darfur, Burundi, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Bosnia or even Kosovo after NATO intervention."

The rebels, however, knew that inflating their peril was their best hope for getting outside help. So, Kuperman says, they concocted the specter of genocide -- and Obama believed it, or at least used it to justify intervention.

Another skeptic is Paul Miller, an assistant professor at National Defense University who served on the National Security Council under Bush and Obama. "The Rwandan genocide was targeted against an entire, clearly defined ethnic group," he wrote on the Foreign Policy website. "The Libyan civil war is between a tyrant and his cronies on one side, and a collection of tribes, movements, and ideologists (including Islamists) on the other. ... The first is murder, the second is war."

When I contacted Miller, he discounted the talk of vast slaughter. "Benghazi is the second-largest city in the country, and he needs the city and its people to continue functioning and producing goods for his impoverished country," he said.

Maybe these analysts are mistaken, but the administration has offered little in the way of rebuttal. Where Bush sent Colin Powell to the United Nations to make the case against Saddam Hussein, Obama has treated the evidence about Gadhafi as too obvious to dispute.

I e-mailed the White House press office several times asking for concrete evidence of the danger, based on any information the administration may have. But a spokesman declined comment.

That's a surprising omission, given that a looming holocaust was the centerpiece of the president's case for war. Absent specific, reliable evidence, we have to wonder if the president succumbed to unwarranted panic over fictitious dangers.

Bush had a host of reasons (or pretexts) for invading Iraq. But Obama has only one good excuse for the attack on Libya -- averting mass murder. That gives the administration a special obligation to document the basis for its fears.

Maybe it can. Plenty of experts think Obama's worries were justified. But so far, the White House message has been: Trust us.

Sorry, but we've tried that before. In 2002, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice waved off doubts about Saddam Hussein's nuclear ambitions, saying, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." Right now, the Benghazi bloodbath looks like Obama's mushroom cloud.

schapman@tribune.com
Copyright 2011, Creators Syndicate Inc.

Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/04/03/obamas_bloodbath_can_we_believe_the_hype_109429.html at April 03, 2011 - 08:17:36 PM CDT

Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #384 on: April 03, 2011, 06:20:34 PM »
I've been thinking about those claims of "massacre" a bit. All these claims of civilians being massacred and yet there isn't a single video showing any sort of said massacre. I have, however, seen videos popping up from Syria and other places of civilians being shot in the streets and what not. Pretty much everywhere but Libya.

I wonder why that is?

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #385 on: April 03, 2011, 06:25:42 PM »
Because bama lied his ass off to get us in to this so he can help al queada and the mb. 

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #386 on: April 03, 2011, 07:34:57 PM »
How does the USA reconcile this? Explain this to me...
Fox 'blogs ^ | Sunday, April 3, 2011 | Greta Van Susteren



In the last 3 days, more than 1000 people have been massacred in Ivory Coast. Far less were killed in Libya and we joined with other nations to do air strikes, no fly zones etc. in Libya. We have not done that in Ivory Coast.

President Obama said we went into Libya for humanitarian reasons. (1000 massacred in 3 days is a humanitarian crisis.)

How do we reconcile the inactivity in Ivory Coast? And I am not suggesting we should go in (I don't have the answer.)

I am trying to figure out how the Administration justifies the disparate treatment between Libya and Ivory Coast.

Is it because the Europeans are so dependent on oil from Libya? and that is why we joined them in Libya? they lured us into it?

I don't pretend to have the answer.....let me repeat, I am merely trying to figure out why the different treatment for the citizens of Libya versus the citizens of Ivory Coast.


(Excerpt) Read more at gretawire.blogs.foxnews. com ...


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Fury

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #387 on: April 03, 2011, 07:55:37 PM »
How does the USA reconcile this? Explain this to me...
Fox 'blogs ^ | Sunday, April 3, 2011 | Greta Van Susteren



In the last 3 days, more than 1000 people have been massacred in Ivory Coast. Far less were killed in Libya and we joined with other nations to do air strikes, no fly zones etc. in Libya. We have not done that in Ivory Coast.

President Obama said we went into Libya for humanitarian reasons. (1000 massacred in 3 days is a humanitarian crisis.)

How do we reconcile the inactivity in Ivory Coast? And I am not suggesting we should go in (I don't have the answer.)

I am trying to figure out how the Administration justifies the disparate treatment between Libya and Ivory Coast.

Is it because the Europeans are so dependent on oil from Libya? and that is why we joined them in Libya? they lured us into it?

I don't pretend to have the answer.....let me repeat, I am merely trying to figure out why the different treatment for the citizens of Libya versus the citizens of Ivory Coast.


(Excerpt) Read more at gretawire.blogs.foxnews. com ...


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1,000 isn't important enough to Obama when the French or English have no oil to steal. Come back when it's 1,000,000 like Rwanda.  ::)

Syria: Assad is a "reformer"
Ivory Coast: *crickets*

A true foreign policy. He'll go down as worse than even Carter.

tu_holmes

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #388 on: April 03, 2011, 08:39:19 PM »
Because bama lied his ass off to get us in to this so he can help al queada and the mb. 

You seriously believe this?

I just think he's being stupid... Listening to some morons. You don't really believe he did this to help AQ?

You think that? Honestly?

andreisdaman

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #389 on: April 04, 2011, 03:39:25 AM »
You seriously believe this?

I just think he's being stupid... Listening to some morons. You don't really believe he did this to help AQ?

You think that? Honestly?

I warned you guys he was nuts...I'm trying to find out where he lives so I can send an ambulance..he seriously needs a straightjacket

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #390 on: April 04, 2011, 03:42:08 AM »
1000000 percent I believe that.  You need to stop being so naïve as to who obama actually is. He is trying to collapse the me so he can make way for a pan islamist caliphate.   

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #391 on: April 04, 2011, 03:43:19 AM »
1000000 percent I believe that.  You need to stop being so naïve as to who obama actually is. He is trying to collapse the me so he can make way for a pan islamist caliphate.   

Hmm why doesnt he start in the US then after all he is the pres?

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #392 on: April 04, 2011, 03:45:05 AM »
He already has.  Go check out my thread on this. 

whork25

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #393 on: April 04, 2011, 03:47:12 AM »
He is pretty bad at it then he has been the pres for 2 years and i see no sign of the US turning into a muslim califat

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #394 on: April 04, 2011, 03:53:37 AM »
I didn't mean it that way.  Obama is intentionally trying to collapse the nation and demoralize the citizenry so that they will accept socialism / communism and his nwo visions.  As for the islamist stuff, he supported the ground zero mosque, has the doj defending three week vacations to the hajj, etc.

whork25

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #395 on: April 04, 2011, 04:00:27 AM »
What makes you think that people will follow his lead if he collapses the nation?

If he does collapse the nation wont people look to others for leadership?

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #396 on: April 04, 2011, 04:05:21 AM »
Desperate people will accept anything. 

Did you see the food stamp numbers I posted?  Obama is the ultimate poverty pimp. 

whork25

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #397 on: April 04, 2011, 04:07:44 AM »
Desperate people will accept anything. 

Did you see the food stamp numbers I posted?  Obama is the ultimate poverty pimp. 

Poverty pimp?

Please explain

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #398 on: April 04, 2011, 04:09:25 AM »
the more rich ppl there are, the better repubs do.

the more poor ppl, the better dems do.

is this breaking news somehow?  did it really not sink in until 2011?  LOL

whork25

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Re: Obama's illegal war
« Reply #399 on: April 04, 2011, 04:09:41 AM »
Desperate people will accept anything. 

Did you see the food stamp numbers I posted?  Obama is the ultimate poverty pimp. 

I have a hard time believing the us will vote for Obama if he collapses the nation.
Any candidate will beat him if thats the case.