Author Topic: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people  (Read 13727 times)

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2011, 04:39:37 PM »
I am for closing all tax loopholes, if your rate is 35%, you pay 35% or go to prison for 10 years and lose all your money and assets.  No early release nothing, you sit in jail cell 10 years.  

When you dingle a carrot in front of a bunny rabbit what do you think he is going to do?  It is free food basically, does he know that you poisoned it?  No, but that is his problem right?  The people giving out these loans knew the people couldn't pay them back, and the people were lead to believe they could, pure and simple, deception, lying, all for more $$$$ greed.

Fortunately, not being a "bunny rabbit", I hope I am blessed with a little more intelligence and the wisdom to be more selective in choosing to take or not whatever carrot is dangled before me.

People make bad financial decisions all the time. Unfortunately, often instead of accepting responsibility for these dumb choices they look to blame others. Some mortgage lenders may be greedy for commissions at the expense of writing good loans for their clients. However, I think the term, "buyer beware" applies. Mortgage lenders are salesman, pure and simple.  

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2011, 05:09:20 PM »
do me a favor.  tell me what you think a tax loophole is.  and i mean specifically a provision in the IRC which you find to be an unfair tax loophole for the rich.  i don;t think you can.  what i see is that you're simply regurgitating what you see on MSNBC yet citing no specific examples and showing me that you have no real knowledge on the subject other than headlines that you read.  prove me wrong.

I'm not saying you do this, but posting what one gets from watching MSNBC is no different than a lot of folks here who post directly from what the hear and see on FOX News. Eitherway, the media industry often overstates issues and sometimes even outright lies about them in order to gain viewership and/or readership. The truth is rarely found in the media, regardless of which side of the political spectrum one is on.

Because of the availability of so much information on the Internet and elsewhere today, it is harder and harder to really know the facts of any given situation. What is interesting to me is that good old fashioned logic seems lost on so many people these days. You see this with the Occupy folks who blame the banks for all our ills, or others who blame government or the rich as if anything could be that simple.

Some corporations probably do use tax loopholes to their advantage. Some may even do go so far as to do this outside the law. However, not all corporations are the same or are these big evil conglomerates so many would like to pin all our problems on. Not all rich people are the same. Sure some are greedy, like King Midas counting and hoarding all their gold coins. However, many rich folks are philanthropist and give generously to charities.

People like to complain that corporations outsource the manufacture of their products to other countries and nothing is made in America anymore, and yet they don't hesitate to purchase these cheaper products, which are often made in third world countries rather than support a U.S. industry. It is possible to buy "made in America" if you really try.

We are a nation of finger pointers....always pointing the finger at someone or something else. If you think government is corrupt, attend City Counsel meetings and speak up when you think something is being dealt with improperly. Attend State legislative sessions, watching your elected officials in action. If you don't like how they're voting, write or call them and tell them how you feel. Run for a political office yourself. It is always so much easier to criticize than it is to actually do something about the problems you see.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2011, 07:26:38 AM »
I'm not saying you do this, but posting what one gets from watching MSNBC is no different than a lot of folks here who post directly from what the hear and see on FOX News. Eitherway, the media industry often overstates issues and sometimes even outright lies about them in order to gain viewership and/or readership. The truth is rarely found in the media, regardless of which side of the political spectrum one is on.

Because of the availability of so much information on the Internet and elsewhere today, it is harder and harder to really know the facts of any given situation. What is interesting to me is that good old fashioned logic seems lost on so many people these days. You see this with the Occupy folks who blame the banks for all our ills, or others who blame government or the rich as if anything could be that simple.

Some corporations probably do use tax loopholes to their advantage. Some may even do go so far as to do this outside the law. However, not all corporations are the same or are these big evil conglomerates so many would like to pin all our problems on. Not all rich people are the same. Sure some are greedy, like King Midas counting and hoarding all their gold coins. However, many rich folks are philanthropist and give generously to charities.

People like to complain that corporations outsource the manufacture of their products to other countries and nothing is made in America anymore, and yet they don't hesitate to purchase these cheaper products, which are often made in third world countries rather than support a U.S. industry. It is possible to buy "made in America" if you really try.

We are a nation of finger pointers....always pointing the finger at someone or something else. If you think government is corrupt, attend City Counsel meetings and speak up when you think something is being dealt with improperly. Attend State legislative sessions, watching your elected officials in action. If you don't like how they're voting, write or call them and tell them how you feel. Run for a political office yourself. It is always so much easier to criticize than it is to actually do something about the problems you see.

all i ever ask from anyone when discussing this shit is that we talk about facts.  Making blanket statements about "tax loopholes" and not addressing any specifics is simply a waste of time.  I'm a tax guy.  This is what I do for a living.  I prepare a lot of corporate returns every year.  I prepare a lot of individual returns every year.  My job is to work within the boundaries of the law to minimize the tax liability of my client.  All i ask is that when someone says "tax loophole", give me a specific provision of the Internal Revenue Code that you think is unfair and I am more than happy to discuss it.  There are TONS of provisions that are unfair.  However, there are a lot of provisions that are unfair to the high income taxpayer as well.   

reppingfor20

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #128 on: November 30, 2011, 07:43:16 AM »
fair?  The rich are getting richer and corporations are making more money than ever while the middle class and the poor are not making any more money than they were 10 years ago, factor in inflation and you have a very unfair situation.  The rich should be happy they get to keep what they have, really in this time we should be taxing them at 50 - 60% to help the whole country.

TEAM Nasser

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #129 on: November 30, 2011, 12:23:37 PM »
fair?  The rich are getting richer and corporations are making more money than ever while the middle class and the poor are not making any more money than they were 10 years ago, factor in inflation and you have a very unfair situation.  The rich should be happy they get to keep what they have, really in this time we should be taxing them at 50 - 60% to help the whole country.



thats my biggest problem with you.  you think that if we bring the federal income tax rates up to 50% that this will help.  And you believe this mostly because of all the lies and distortions of the truth regarding corporate and individual federal income taxes you have seen and read about.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #130 on: November 30, 2011, 01:18:22 PM »
fair?  The rich are getting richer and corporations are making more money than ever while the middle class and the poor are not making any more money than they were 10 years ago, factor in inflation and you have a very unfair situation.  The rich should be happy they get to keep what they have, really in this time we should be taxing them at 50 - 60% to help the whole country.



also this post is short sighted and devoid of any practical knowledge of tax policy.  plus you sound like you're blaming the rich.  "the rich should be happy to keep what they get"?  who the fuck are you?

thelamefalsehood

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1392
  • I love lamp
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2011, 01:27:47 PM »
also this post is short sighted and devoid of any practical knowledge of tax policy.  plus you sound like you're blaming the rich.  "the rich should be happy to keep what they get"?  who the fuck are you?

He is this guy, seriously, this is him. So I wouldnt pay much mind to him. Now Jstunami/sucksdickfor20/largerthanlife/analpaulm, get back to the G&O so we can make fun of your love of goats ;)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41756
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2011, 01:58:10 PM »
He is this guy, seriously, this is him. So I wouldnt pay much mind to him. Now Jstunami/sucksdickfor20/largerthanlife/analpaulm, get back to the G&O so we can make fun of your love of goats ;)

LOL.  That pic never gets old. 

reppingfor20

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #133 on: November 30, 2011, 05:10:25 PM »
also this post is short sighted and devoid of any practical knowledge of tax policy.  plus you sound like you're blaming the rich.  "the rich should be happy to keep what they get"?  who the fuck are you?

I am for fairness, if most of this country is christian they will vote out all republicans in 2012.

TEAM Nasser

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2011, 05:15:22 PM »
I am for fairness, if most of this country is christian they will vote out all republicans in 2012.

What? The Christian right supports the Republican right. Not that all "Christians" are Republicans or vice versa.

reppingfor20

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #135 on: November 30, 2011, 05:18:45 PM »
What? The Christian right supports the Republican right. Not that all "Christians" are Republicans or vice versa.

I'm saying if most of the country is suppose "Christians", they will vote out all the republicans guarding the very small number of rich people in this country from a small tax hike so the middle class can have a tax break.  How so called Christians live with themselves I never know.

TEAM Nasser

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #136 on: November 30, 2011, 05:35:45 PM »
I'm saying if most of the country is suppose "Christians", they will vote out all the republicans guarding the very small number of rich people in this country from a small tax hike so the middle class can have a tax break.  How so called Christians live with themselves I never know.



You are thinking too narrowly. There are a number of reasons people vote for Republican candidates. And don't kid yourself there are corrupt Democrates too. The reality is that money talks. Successful political campaigns are expensive. It is both good business and human nature for to support those who support your interests.

What you have proposed in previous posts regarding tax rates, including tax increases for the rich and decreases for the poor is nothing short of idealized communism. As much as many people seem to expect and enjoy socialism, communism is still quite a leap! Thank goodness for that, because communism goes against human nature and thus eventually fails. History has proved this over and over again.

Additionally, you have an idealized and wrong view of what it means to be a Christian. There is nothing that says Christians can't have wealth. It may be "Christian" to be charitable, but I don't believe anyone can logically expect someone to give away all their wealth and power in the name of Christianity....unless they are becoming a monk or a nun and taking a vow of poverty. There is not a lot of folks doing this, I'm afraid.

reppingfor20

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #137 on: November 30, 2011, 06:26:15 PM »
Communism carried out perfectly will work.  Just like Capitalism will work if it is carried out right with regulations and no loopholes, as we have it now it is not capitalism, it is a system that is owned by corporations and corporate interests decide what goes on.

I never said a Christian can't be wealthy, but he must give to the poor and 10% to the church as well.  Christians if they actually read the bible are told to help the poor, but modern so called Christianity demonizes the poor, just like the GOP are doing, they are so called modern day Christians, something Christ would deeply disprove of.

TEAM Nasser

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #138 on: November 30, 2011, 06:46:57 PM »
Communism carried out perfectly will work.  Just like Capitalism will work if it is carried out right with regulations and no loopholes, as we have it now it is not capitalism, it is a system that is owned by corporations and corporate interests decide what goes on.

I never said a Christian can't be wealthy, but he must give to the poor and 10% to the church as well.  Christians if they actually read the bible are told to help the poor, but modern so called Christianity demonizes the poor, just like the GOP are doing, they are so called modern day Christians, something Christ would deeply disprove of.



Can you sight an example of a time when communism worked for any extended period of time? I can't think of any examples....help me out here.

Many of the "loopholes" you reference are actually regulations and tax laws of which smart folks and corporations take advantage. I am not rich. However, when I do my taxes each year, I spend considerable time learning which tax rules serve me to best advantage so as to avoid paying one penny more in taxes than I have to. Tax laws and regulations come from government. People who break these laws are subject to punishment. If you've noticed, the IRS generally goes after the big fish and not the little guy.

People may think less of the poor for very interesting reasons. One of those reasons is a desire to separate oneself from those people. Most folks would rather believe they could never be in a position of begging for money or food than to look at the begger and realize that they may only be a paycheck or two removed from that person looking for a handout. Yet, I believe, somewhere in their minds they know just how vulnerable they are....we all are....and so they do everything they can to divorce themselves from those less fortunate. My wife and I have worked with homeless people and people relying on food banks for sustenance. Some of them have really heart breaking stories to tell which make clear how easy it is to fall from the top. Of course, some folks are perpetually in poverty because that's what they know or they haven't the will to change there miserable lives. No amount of handouts will help most of these people. It makes it really hard for caring people to know who to help and who not to help. Everyone has a sad story to tell. Some are for real and others, not so much.

reppingfor20

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2011, 07:43:18 PM »
Can you sight an example of a time when communism worked for any extended period of time? I can't think of any examples....help me out here.

Many of the "loopholes" you reference are actually regulations and tax laws of which smart folks and corporations take advantage. I am not rich. However, when I do my taxes each year, I spend considerable time learning which tax rules serve me to best advantage so as to avoid paying one penny more in taxes than I have to. Tax laws and regulations come from government. People who break these laws are subject to punishment. If you've noticed, the IRS generally goes after the big fish and not the little guy.

People may think less of the poor for very interesting reasons. One of those reasons is a desire to separate oneself from those people. Most folks would rather believe they could never be in a position of begging for money or food than to look at the begger and realize that they may only be a paycheck or two removed from that person looking for a handout. Yet, I believe, somewhere in their minds they know just how vulnerable they are....we all are....and so they do everything they can to divorce themselves from those less fortunate. My wife and I have worked with homeless people and people relying on food banks for sustenance. Some of them have really heart breaking stories to tell which make clear how easy it is to fall from the top. Of course, some folks are perpetually in poverty because that's what they know or they haven't the will to change there miserable lives. No amount of handouts will help most of these people. It makes it really hard for caring people to know who to help and who not to help. Everyone has a sad story to tell. Some are for real and others, not so much.

Good post about the poor Prime.  Yes many people want to separate themselves from them, but they do not realize they could be in that very position a year or two down the line. 

Communism is usually or mostly abused power from the top, that is why I said it had to be executed perfectly, although can you say the US system is working out well at it's current state?

Smart people taking advantage of not paying their fair share, that is smart?  That sounds more devious behavior than smart. 
TEAM Nasser

Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 61520
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #140 on: November 30, 2011, 07:57:46 PM »
Define Christian. 80% of the country believes in God but that doesn't mean they are "Christian". 50% of Catholics voted for Obama. Any good Catholic knows better than to vote for him.

Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 61520
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #141 on: November 30, 2011, 07:59:42 PM »
Also, if you're anti-America (and you are) and pro-communist...what are you doing in this country?

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #142 on: November 30, 2011, 09:22:10 PM »
Good post about the poor Prime.  Yes many people want to separate themselves from them, but they do not realize they could be in that very position a year or two down the line. 

Communism is usually or mostly abused power from the top, that is why I said it had to be executed perfectly, although can you say the US system is working out well at it's current state?

Smart people taking advantage of not paying their fair share, that is smart?  That sounds more devious behavior than smart. 

Maybe they do realize it could be them and that is why they mentally create this division hoping it will somehow insulate them from that happening.

So are you suggesting I not take every deduction available to me under the law? There is nothing devious about being well informed about tax laws and taking every possible legal deduction. Devious behavior would be cheating on ones taxes. There is a risk involved in such cheating. If caught, at the least you'll be fined and if the tax fraud is flagrant enough, you might be warming up a jail cell.

Personally, I'd rather save everything I legally can on my tax bill and donate that money to charity of my choice. Which, by the way, is another tax deduction. Did you know you can donate up to 30% of your gross income to legitimate charities without raising any red flags with the IRS? Not that my wife and I donate that much....just saying.

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #143 on: November 30, 2011, 09:26:52 PM »
Any good Catholic knows better than to vote for him.

Really? Why?

Are you Catholic? Does your statement have anything to do with Obama's views on a woman's right to an abortion. 

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #144 on: November 30, 2011, 09:31:22 PM »
Also, if you're anti-America (and you are) and pro-communist...what are you doing in this country?

So if someone is a communist, which of the five remaining communist countries should they pick to live in: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea or Vietnam?

Primemuscle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 42298
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #145 on: November 30, 2011, 09:51:17 PM »
Define Christian. 80% of the country believes in God but that doesn't mean they are "Christian".

Believing in God doesn't mean one is Christian. Most religions believe in God except perhaps Atheist and Agnostics. Jews believe in God, Muslims worship Allah and the Prophet Mohamed. who they believe is the last messenger of God. Christians, including Catholics believe in God and in Jesus as the son of God. Satanist worship the Devil. There are good folks and not so good folks in each of these faiths. But, apparently there are very few folks who bother to vote in a national election.

Only 37.8% of the voting age population voted in the 2010 Presidential election. I'll bet there were folks of all faiths who voted and who could be bothered to vote. Perhaps if more folks, regardless of their faith, took a moment out of their lives to vote in elections they'd have a louder voice. As it is, I, for one, have no time for folks who complain about how bad things are but can't even bother to vote to change them.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #146 on: December 01, 2011, 07:08:01 AM »
I am for fairness, if most of this country is christian they will vote out all republicans in 2012.



taking money away from rich people and giving it to poor people is not fairness.  sorry.  the idea of it may make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside but it still does not fall under the definition of fairness.  fairness is a flat tax where everyone pays the same rate of tax no matter what they earn.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #147 on: December 01, 2011, 07:13:26 AM »
Good post about the poor Prime.  Yes many people want to separate themselves from them, but they do not realize they could be in that very position a year or two down the line. 

Communism is usually or mostly abused power from the top, that is why I said it had to be executed perfectly, although can you say the US system is working out well at it's current state?

Smart people taking advantage of not paying their fair share, that is smart?  That sounds more devious behavior than smart. 

there's more of your fairness. 

"poor people follow the law.  rich people don't follow the law if it helps you.  only follow the law when it provides an opportunity for the poor to get their hands on more of your money.  if the law works in your favor, don't follow it, or you're a bad person."

this is a prime example of young liberal logic. you're still in college aren't you?

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #148 on: December 01, 2011, 07:50:45 AM »
Maybe they do realize it could be them and that is why they mentally create this division hoping it will somehow insulate them from that happening.

So are you suggesting I not take every deduction available to me under the law? There is nothing devious about being well informed about tax laws and taking every possible legal deduction. Devious behavior would be cheating on ones taxes. There is a risk involved in such cheating. If caught, at the least you'll be fined and if the tax fraud is flagrant enough, you might be warming up a jail cell.

Personally, I'd rather save everything I legally can on my tax bill and donate that money to charity of my choice. Which, by the way, is another tax deduction. Did you know you can donate up to 30% of your gross income to legitimate charities without raising any red flags with the IRS? Not that my wife and I donate that much....just saying.

me too.  i want my money going to charities that I choose.  i don't want those choices made for me.

Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 61520
  • It’s All Bullshit
Re: Unamerican, traitor's tax evading people
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2011, 08:01:30 AM »
Really? Why?

Are you Catholic? Does your statement have anything to do with Obama's views on a woman's right to an abortion. 

I'm a non-denominational Christian but my wife, as with the rest of her family is a devout Catholic. And yes, that's one of the main reasons to not vote for him. And true Christian/Catholic shouldn't have anything to do with a politician let alone the POTUS that supports abortion and especially late term.