Do you buy premium fuel?

[BayGBM]

how dare you do that    The dealership service desk attendant would be very mad at your for that    Great post Bay, probably saving a lot of people money with this.

Not really.  As you can see there are guys here who have convinced themselves that premium is the only fuel they can put in their car and certainly nothing I say or post here is going to change their minds.  Still, on some level they have to know that one (or many) stations over the years have suckered them without them even knowing it by selling them premium fuel even though it was coming from the same tank of regular gas in the underground tank.  The more I think about this the more I think it is a widespread practice.  Those TV news magazines have proven it in their undercover investigations.

If that doesn’t make you feel like a sucker—nothing will. 

[reppingfor20]

Not really.  As you can see there are guys here who have convinced themselves that premium is the only fuel they can put in their car and certainly nothing I say or post here is going to change their minds.  Still, on some level they have to know that one (or many) stations over the years have suckered them without them even knowing it by selling them premium fuel even though it was coming from the same tank of regular gas in the underground tank.  The more I think about this the more I think it is a widespread practice.  Those TV news magazines have proven it in their undercover investigations.

If that doesn’t make you feel like a sucker—nothing will. 

I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads. 

[BayGBM]

I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads.  

We so agree!  Marketing hype and denial is a powerful combination!

Still, the unscrupulous station owners are having the last laugh.  They are charging for premium and selling regular grade.  What would Homer Simpson say...?  

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

 

[Butterbean]

No

[El Diablo Blanco]

I see there are many people in this thread still calling out the warning signs, it's like they are the oil company reps lol.  They really do believe the hype the car companies and gasoline companies put out about this.  If they did a blind gas test, I bet they couldn't tell the difference, most of it is in their heads. 

You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.

[BayGBM]

You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  More than once I have said that if one is a drag racer, a racecar driver, or in another situation where extracting the maximum performance from an engine is important then premium fuel is the way to go.  In the way that premium wheels and racing tires should be used when it is similarly necessary.

You are correct: I am not an automotive engineer.  My point is that the vast majority of drivers have no need to extract that kind of “maximum performance” from an engine since we are merely driving to work, the gym, the grocery store, etc. at modest speeds.  If you regularly find yourself driving 98mph or 210mph, more power to you.  Certainly you should fill up on premium.  I am never in situations where I have to go that fast, and I suspect the same is true for 99.9% of the population.  I fill up on regular.  I have never had a problem nor have I been dissatisfied with the performance of my cars.

[Yev33]

You guys are serious tools and have no idea how fuel is used and how a high performance motor works and the effects of higher Octane.

I guess race car drivers are idiots and should use 87 in their cars instead of higher octane.  It's all in their heads when they are going 210 mph vs. 98 mph.

I think that Bay just wanted some input and opinions. Until he has a car that noticeably runs like shit on 87 he will keep using it, as he should.

Reppingfor20 is just talking out of his ass to try to get a rise out of people, don't feed the gimmick.

[tu_holmes]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?  More than once I have said that if one is a drag racer, a racecar driver, or in another situation where extracting the maximum performance from an engine is important then premium fuel is the way to go.  In the way that premium wheels and racing tires should be used when it is similarly necessary.

You are correct: I am not an automotive engineer.  My point is that the vast majority of drivers have no need to extract that kind of “maximum performance” from an engine since we are merely driving to work, the gym, the grocery store, etc. at modest speeds.  If you regularly find yourself driving 98mph or 210mph, more power to you.  Certainly you should fill up on premium.  I am never in situations where I have to go that fast, and I suspect the same is true for 99.9% of the population.  I fill up on regular.  I have never had a problem nor have I been dissatisfied with the performance of my cars.

Have you never noticed a difference in gas mileage?

[BayGBM]

Have you never noticed a difference in gas mileage?

No.  Never more than a 1-2mpg difference and I attributed that to my driving habits over the course of a week or two—not to the grade of gasoline—because I still experience that kind of variation in my car today depending on how I drive it: aggressive vs. grandpa driving.  Obviously, some people here are more “serious” about cars than I am.  I read Car & Driver, attend car shows, and participate in car forums online, but I confess I am not a grease monkey; looking under the hood of my car is not how I want to spend my spare time.

In many ways this dialogue is moot because, as I noted previously, your local stations may be selling you regular gasoline at a premium price and you do not even know it.  I suspect that, at some point, this has happened to everyone who has ever bought premium gasoline.  It will continue to happen... and you will never even know it. 

[tu_holmes]

No.  Never more than a 1-2mpg difference and I attributed that to my driving habits over the course of a week or two—not to the grade of gasoline—because I still experience that kind of variation in my car today depending on how I drive it: aggressive vs. grandpa driving.  Obviously, some people here are more “serious” about cars than I am.  I read Car & Driver, attend car shows, and participate in car forums online, but I confess I am not a grease monkey; looking under the hood of my car is not how I want to spend my spare time.

In many ways this dialogue is moot because, as I noted previously, your local stations may be selling you regular gasoline at a premium price and you do not even know it.  I suspect that, at some point, this has happened to everyone who has ever bought premium gasoline.  It will continue to happen... and you will never even know it. 

Possibly, but again, stations get tested... I've seen the tests.

It's why I only go to corporate based filling stations as well... not the small mom and pop ones.

[BayGBM]

Possibly, but again, stations get tested... I've seen the tests.

It's why I only go to corporate based filling stations as well... not the small mom and pop ones.

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine

[tu_holmes]

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine

I do 6 and 5

Why are they "Myths"?

Because someone says so?

I have always done those 2 things and my cars typically run better and last longer than other people who I talk to.

Is 3000 mile oil changes excessive? Sure... but when you get a free oil change for life if you do it every 3000 miles, and that also warranties your engine for life, then I'll go ahead and get it done.

[Jack T. Cross]

One thing is for sure.  If your engine is designed for regular fuel, it is an absolute waste of money to use premium.

If your engine is designed to use premium fuel, especially an engine with very high compression, then you have a decision to make.  It will amount to a trade-off.

[avxo]

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine

Let's take these one by one, shall we?

Change your oil every 3,000 miles: Depending on your driving habits and where you live, this might be a good idea, although 3,000 miles is a ridiculously conservative estimate. Is it necessary? Probably not.

Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive: Unless you're living in truly extreme cold (e.g. Northern Minnesota) then it really doesn't make sense. And even then it may not be advisable. ECUs these days adjust burn ratios and idle automatically to bring the engine up to the optimal operating temperature.

Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine: Fuel additives are, almost always, not worth it. There are certain specialized additives that, under some conditions, make sense. One example that comes to mind is additives to be used when storing your vehicle for a long time. But in general, they're worthless.

Get regular engine tuneups: I don't know what that even means. You should get your car serviced regularly, and take it in for service if the MIL indicates trouble or you notice something out of the ordinary. That should cover things.

Winterize Your Car: I'm not sure exactly what "winterize" means in this context. But there things one should do to prepare for winter when one lives in a place where -35° means an unusually warm day.

High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine: Gasoline with the octane rating recommended by the manufacturer is the best gasoline. Your car is designed to operate within certain specifications. Can it operate on lower gasoline? Yes, but you will probably sacrifice some efficiency (and some performance, as the ECU retards timing, which you personally, don't care about on an everyday basis, which is reasonable). Will it make your engine explode to run it with regular? No, not likely. But it might not be a good idea to run on gasoline with a lower octane rating than what the manufacturer recommends if your car has an unusually high compression ratio (e.g. a Celica GT-S which, if memory serves me right, has a compression ratio of 11.5:1) or it uses forced induction.

One thing is for sure.  If your engine is designed for regular fuel, it is an absolute waste of money to use premium.

If your engine is designed to use premium fuel, especially an engine with very high compression, then you have a decision to make.  It will amount to a trade-off.

Q.F.T.

[SamsonD]

Some of you are missing the point.  It's not even just about getting maximum performance.  If you don't use the correct fuel you can damage your engine.  Fuck running rough, you put 87 octane piss water in turbo car and your fucking rods are going through the block.  NOT drag racing either.  Just driving to the store.

[BayGBM]

Some of you are missing the point.  It's not even just about getting maximum performance.  If you don't use the correct fuel you can damage your engine.  Fuck running rough, you put 87 octane piss water in turbo car and your fucking rods are going through the block.  NOT drag racing either.  Just driving to the store.

Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise. 

[reppingfor20]

Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise.  

owned!

[avxo]

Maybe.  But I have had as much as 235k miles of good driving with a trouble free engine that says otherwise. 

Does your engine use forced induction? What is it's compression ratio? And what kind of fuel does the manufacturer recommend you use?

[Roger Bacon]

Question: How often do you need to run your motor at “full potential”?  

Answer: (almost) never.

In the United States most people who buy “performance” cars do so in order to impress themselves or their friends; they are certainly not buying them because they regularly go from 0-60 in five seconds.  A few miles from where I live there is something called the Infineon Raceway where normal people may take their cars and race them around a track a high velocities.  Sounds great if one is a car enthusiast, but the truth is relatively few people (even those who consider themselves car guys with performance vehicles) make use of this facility.  
http://www.infineonraceway.com/

If one is driving a vehicle from say the 1950s, 60s, or 70s  you can test the car with both types fuel and in some cases you will notice a real difference. If that is the case then premium fuel makes sense.  Similarly, if you are determined to extract the absolute best performance possible from your car then premium fuel is a good option.  It would also make sense to put premium race tires on your car as well, but how many people are going to do that?  As I said above, if one is racecar driver or you require the absolute best performance possible from a vehicle then premium fuel is the way to go; otherwise it is a waste of money.  A surprising number of cars today claim to “require” premium fuel including the Smart car ($13,590), the Cooper Mini, many SUVs.  If you are driving one of these vehicles is peak performance and speed really your priority?

You're missing the point here George Takei...

[BayGBM]

Does your engine use forced induction? What is it's compression ratio? And what kind of fuel does the manufacturer recommend you use?

Does any of that matter?  You are not going to convince me that I “damaged the engine” of a car I had two cars ago when I drove it for more than 230k miles without a problem.  In fact, the only reason I got rid of that particular car was because it was “old” (1992) and I eventually wanted something newer.  

I didn’t keep my next car for as many miles simply because someone crashed into it, and by the time that happened I was also ready for something newer.  Still, I drove that vehicle for more than 120k miles without a problem—on regular fuel!  Aside from testing both cars with premium vs. regular fuel a couple times over the years (just to gauge the difference) I never put premium fuel in them.  Maybe I got lucky.  Maybe regular gasoline really will blow up the engine of other vehicles when they tell you that premium fuel is required.  Then again, maybe not.  We may never know, but I’ll bet you a nickel that those of you who insist on buying premium gasoline have been tricked into putting regular fuel into your car at a premium price by an unscrupulous station owner and you never knew it.  

[El Diablo Blanco]

I agree that patronizing the corporate owned stations is the best way to mitigate the risk of being sold downgraded gas, but it is not always easy to tell which station is owned by whom?  I would be very interested to know if the proponents of premium fuel in this thread agree or disagree with the five other car myths detailed in the original article.

#6. Change Your Oil Every 3,000 Miles
#5. Warm Up Your Engine Before You Drive
#4. Fuel Additives Are Good for Your Engine
#3. Get Regular Engine Tuneups
#2. Winterize Your Car
#1. High-Octane Gasoline Is Better for Your Engine

Those 6 things were relevant maybe in the 70's and 80's before all cars started using fuel injection.

Oil filters these days are amazing compared to older days, oil is cleaner and processed better.  Most engines today are machined a thousand times better than 30 years ago so you have less debris in the oil.  If anything I think 3000 has been revised to about 5000-7500 in most cases.

Same holds true for #5.  The myth about warming your engine has nothing to do with warmth.  It was due to getting oil flowing so the pistons are lubed before driving.  Again not needed today.  

#4.  Additives were good with carbs, fuel injection engines today with cleaner gas technology is not needed.

#3.  Tune ups.  Do you know what a tune up is?  Changing spark plugs, adjusting the carburator, checking the timing.  Things that car technology made obsolete today.

#2.  Winterize is switching to a thinner oil that won't thicken as much, chaning the anti-freeze etc...  Again not needed.  

#1.  The key word is better.  It is NOT better just for the sakes of being better and can actual harm your engine.  For bigger motors with higher performance it is not a question of being better as actually being needed for maximum output.

[avxo]

Does any of that matter?

Yes, it does. There's a big difference between an engine running 12.5:1 compression and one running 7.5:1. Similarly, there's a big difference between an engine using forced induction and one that doesn't.

Running the right fuel is important for cars with high compression ratios, forced induction or engines using stratified injection.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, the designer/manufacturer of the engine is more qualified than you to recommend the type of fuel to put in the engine. But it is a recommendation and they don't force you to follow it. If you don't care to then don't.

But don't extrapolate from your sample size of 1 and use your experience as "proof" that running the fuel  recommended by the designer and manufacturer isn't needed.

You are not going to convince me that I “damaged the engine” of a car

I don't care to convince you about anything.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Yes, it does. There's a big difference between an engine running 12.5:1 compression and one running 7.5:1. Similarly, there's a big difference between an engine using forced induction and one that doesn't.

Running the right fuel is important for cars with high compression ratios, forced induction or engines using stratified injection.

Your personal experience notwithstanding, the designer/manufacturer of the engine is more qualified than you to recommend the type of fuel to put in the engine. But it is a recommendation and they don't force you to follow it. If you don't care to then don't.

But don't extrapolate from your sample size of 1 and use your experience as "proof" that running the fuel  recommended by the designer and manufacturer isn't needed.

I don't care to convince you about anything.

But Bay went to a car show so that made him an expert.  Plus he ignored the thousands of internet articles explaining the benefits of Octane in high performance motors and chose to stick to is one conpiract theory article.

[BayGBM]

See you in the fast lane!