Have you been ignoring your white Privilege today?

[Skip8282]

What kind of proof would you need? And why do you think it's limited to roles like Lincoln? Why don't you think it extends to roles like Harry Potter and Tony Stark and Thor and any of the Avengers and the Twilight vampires  or James Bond? The most successful  movie currently in the top ten is "Oz:Great and Powerful". There were racial minorities in the film(in minor roles), but considering  the story was inspired by preexisting material and featured preexisting characters, I doubt any black actresses were auditioned for any of the female leads (all played by white actresses). I don't know if you watch Game of Thrones, but it's an immensely popular show filmed on an epic scale and it is not cast colorblind.
Another HBO show, "Girls", has received a lot of criticism because it takes place in an area of New York in which the population is less than 30% white, yet during the first season, virtually every role on the show was played by a white person. The show's star/creator (who is white) has been very publicly contrite and that might account for some of the unusually open reflections she's had about the racial make up of the show:

I can go on and on anecdotally, but I'm curious about what you would consider proof.

Here's your allegation:

"But the  majority of speaking roles in mainstream productions are written for whites and often specify white in their casting calls"



Show me casting calls, where race is irrelevant (i.e. the actor is NOT playing Lincoln), that specify white only.


Can't get anymore straightforward.

[Al Doggity]

Here's your allegation:

"But the  majority of speaking roles in mainstream productions are written for whites and often specify white in their casting calls"



Show me casting calls, where race is irrelevant (i.e. the actor is NOT playing Lincoln), that specify white only.


Can't get anymore straightforward.

Here's an excerpt from an article Salon did on casting calls a little while ago:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2012/07/casting_and_race_the_tricky_business_of_writing_casting_notices.2.html

Robinson’s analysis of three months’ worth of film breakdowns found that Caucasian roles made up 22.5 percent of advertised openings. The next largest category of ethnic-specific roles was designated African-American (8.1 percent). The smallest category was made up of Native American characters (0.5 percent).

The article goes on to say this:

The largest group of roles in Robinson’s sample—46.5 percent—included no ethnic designation at all. According to most of his sources, a role with no ethnic designation would be implicitly understood by talent agents and actors to be Caucasian—meaning that, in Robinson’s final tally, 69 percent of open film roles were presumed to be reserved for white actors. (Breakdown Services has rejected Robinson’s analysis, saying they don’t know where he got the breakdowns he was reading.)
Larry Williams, founder of Williams Talent Agency, which specializes in representing African-American and minority performers, says Robinson’s interpretation tracks with his experience: Usually, he finds that a role with no ethnic designation ultimately goes to a Caucasian actor. (Meanwhile, he’s found that roles bearing a disclaimer like “submit all ethnicities” go to Caucasian actors about 60 percent of the time.)

Even if you take issue with the second paragraph I posted (and some people quoted at the source do dispute it), there is still a larger pool of  jobs specifically for whites than for any other race.

[Skip8282]

Here's an excerpt from an article Salon did on casting calls a little while ago:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2012/07/casting_and_race_the_tricky_business_of_writing_casting_notices.2.html
The article goes on to say this:

Even if you take issue with the second paragraph I posted (and some people quoted at the source do dispute it), there is still a larger pool of  jobs specifically for whites than for any other race.

Dude, those are specifically Caucasian roles.  In other words....Lincoln wasn't black!



I couldn't help but notice the one talent agent:  "Meanwhile, he’s found that roles bearing a disclaimer like “submit all ethnicities” go to Caucasian actors about 60 percent of the time"



So, if we use census numbers,

Whites = 78% of the population

But are only getting 60% of the jobs.

So even if there's a larger pool (i.e. more Lincoln movies than Malcolm X movies), it ends up being a push with Whites underrepresented in unspecified roles.



I'm sure numbers are off and it's probably exceptionally difficult to do these studies and make these estimates.   But the privilege aspect seems to be equally daunting.


For the sake of argument, I pose the same question to you.  What should be done about it?

[Al Doggity]

I couldn't help but notice the one talent agent:  "Meanwhile, he’s found that roles bearing a disclaimer like “submit all ethnicities” go to Caucasian actors about 60 percent of the time"

So, if we use census numbers,

Whites = 78% of the population

But are only getting 60% of the jobs.

So even if there's a larger pool (i.e. more Lincoln movies than Malcolm X movies), it ends up being a push with Whites underrepresented in unspecified roles.

That isn't what that excerpt meant. Here is the quote in a more complete context:


Usually, he finds that a role with no ethnic designation ultimately goes to a Caucasian actor. (Meanwhile, he’s found that roles bearing a disclaimer like “submit all ethnicities” go to Caucasian actors about 60 percent of the time.)


The article makes a differentiation between a casting call with no ethnic designation and calls containing a request to submit all ethnicities. Casting calls with no ethnic designations are generally considered to be
reserved for whites, while  "submit all ethnicities" usually means race is irrelevant. So, that excerpt is saying that the roles not containing an ethnic designation usually go to whites, but within that group of roles there is another subset that is generally considered more open,and those roles usually go to whites as  well.

Dude, those are specifically Caucasian roles.  In other words....Lincoln wasn't black!

...so even if there's a larger pool (i.e. more Lincoln movies than Malcolm X movies), it ends up being a push with Whites underrepresented in unspecified roles.

Well, I'm glad you can at least admit this. It appears that you may have misunderstood my earlier posts.
I was not making the argument that casting directors favor whites over other races. My point was that the sheer number of opportunities and the quality of the opportunities was more favorable for whites. I'm not sure why you insist that this is a phenomenon that would only occur in the shadow of hifalutin' fare like "Lincoln" or "Malcolm X". It's systemic. While there are circumstances when casting directors and producers  will cast a role differently from how it's written, most mainstream productions are written with white leads. Once the white lead is cast, the love interest will be white the majority of the time. If the couple has kids, those are more job openings available for white child actors that aren't open to black child actors. If the kids are teens and the teens go on dates, those are more job openings that will almost exclusively be for whites. That is the privilege I'm talking about. The pool is bigger, the quality within that pool is superior, the chance for success is greater.

"So, Al?" you might be saying. "That's just one profession. It doesn't have an affect on the real world." Well, I would disagree. I think there is a really short jump from where white privilege ends and white preference begins. I used the acting examples because, to my eye, they're so transparent.

For the sake of argument, I pose the same question to you.  What should be done about it?

For starters, actually addressing it. There will always be people who are resistant to even acknowledging the existence of the phenomenon, but there are rare examples like Lena Dunham. I don't watch that show and I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of a black "Girl" or another black love interest, but if she is actually receptive to criticism and somewhat genuinely open to analyzing her perceptions of the cultural hegemony, then that's progress. Despite some suggestions made in this thread, things don't actually just change on their own. Problems don't go away by ignoring them.

[24KT]

Here's your allegation:

"But the  majority of speaking roles in mainstream productions are written for whites and often specify white in their casting calls"

Show me casting calls, where race is irrelevant (i.e. the actor is NOT playing Lincoln), that specify white only.

Can't get anymore straightforward.

Sorry Skip... that's impossible to do. That fact that you even requested such a thing reveals how little you know about the casting process. I don't mean that as a flame. It's simply that the nature of these casting notices (what we refer to as 'breakdowns') are extremely confidential. Actors can't even see them. they are distributed only between Casting Directors & agents. The only way actors get access is by hacking the breakdown system and file sharing amongst other actors, or if agents give them access, but for the most part actors are kept out of the loop.

Right now the best I can give is anecdotal evidence from just a few months ago. A friend of mine facebook shared an urgent casting notice posted by one of her friends (an agent) who was desperate to find 2 little girls between the ages of 8 - 10 yrs. old to play guests for an upcoming scene in a TV show depicting a children's birthday party. In his notice, he mentioned which Casting Director he was trying to locate the children for, as well as the location (address) where the scene was going to be shot.

Well, I happen to know the Casting Director for that show and she's a sweetheart. If there was anything I could do to help her out, I would. My friend who also shared the noticed is a terrific gal, and I was only too happy to help out one of her friends who was in turn trying to help a mutual friend of all three of us. Besides, I had been in that agent's shoes, so I was more than happy to help if i  could. Then it occurred to me that my own nieces are 8 & 10 yrs old, live right around the corner from the home being used for the location, and they were off school at that time, so I thought, perhaps I could help to feed a few birds with one worm.

I noticed there was something lacking about the notice he put out though. It didn't specify any ethnicity, or that all ethnicities should be submitted, so before contacting my sister to see if the girls would even be interested, i called the agent to find out about it. I mentioned there was no ethnicity specified on the little girls. He contacted the casting director for clarification, and she specified the little girls they were seeking had to be caucasian. So much for that. Their search continued. He did subsequently re-post the notice specifying the little girls had to be caucasian.

Even when a breakdown specifies a role is open to all ethnicities, invariably what often happens is that only caucasian actors are called in to audition for the role. I doubt much as changed over the years, but it was a big wake up call for a lot of people when the union actually started tracking audition rates and the ethnicities of performers being called in based on union audition sign-in sheets.

And to be honest Skip, your assuming that this type of thing doesn't occur is just ignorant. I'm not trying to insult you, you just don't know because it is a world foreign to you. Your above comment is the equivalent of someone saying to a professional bodybuilder... that's bullshit when you say you have to eat the extra lean ground beef... there's nothing wrong with you eating the cheaper ground beef with all the fat in it. Or what do you mean you have to eat all that food, or that frequently. If you don't work in that environment, you don't know and have no business assuming what is or isn't common practices with such adamance

[24KT]

Here's an example of privilege unfolding on the news right before our eye...

...we have people screaming the suspected marathon bombers have disgraced and left a stain on the entire Chechyn community.


No one ever said that about Jeffrey Dalhmer, ...and he was actually charged, tried & convicted.

[George Whorewell]

Here's an example of privilege unfolding on the news right before our eye...

...we have people screaming the suspected marathon bombers have disgraced and left a stain on the entire Chechyn community.


No one ever said that about Jeffrey Dalhmer, ...and he was actually charged, tried & convicted.

You are without a doubt, the dumbest person on this entire board. Congrats!

[24KT]

You are without a doubt, the dumbest person on this entire board. Congrats!

Privilege means never having to be considered a representative of your entire race.

Too bad he hadn't been a 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation American. Chechyns the world over wouldn't have a taint.

Does your above comment reveal you to be the bitterest when confronted with the truth? I think so.

[George Whorewell]

Privilege means never having to be considered a representative of your entire race.

Too bad he hadn't been a 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation American. Chechyns the world over wouldn't have a taint.

Does your above comment reveal you to be the bitterest when confronted with the truth? I think so.

Your stupidity doesn't make me feel bitter in the least. You think a little bit too highly of yourself lol. Good luck with that.

[24KT]

Your stupidity doesn't make me feel bitter in the least. You think a little bit too highly of yourself lol. Good luck with that.

Of course I think highly of myself.

[andreisdaman]

After reviewing this thread, it is apparent that the"white privilege" boogeyman amounts to nothing more than a lack of perseverance exhibited by low achieving blacks.

If the losers in this thread spent half as much time doing something productive with their lives instead of bitching about how white people get all of the good acting jobs or how white people get along with the staff of best buy because of their race, the fantasy of "white privilege" would immediately disappear into obscurity.

uh huh..sure......and remember how many years ago blacks were complaining about police brutality yet everyone said "oh they are just making this up to get back at the cops for arresting them".....then the RODNEY KING VIDEO CAME OUT AND FOR THE FIRST TIME AMERICANS, especially white Americans WERE SHOCKED TO SEE THAT IT WAS REALLY HAPPENING.....AND NOW MANY YEARS LATER MANY VIDEO TAPES OF COPS ABUSING CITIZENS FOR NO REASON HAVE COME OUT and now it is accepted that the police do in fact act with brutality for no apparent reason sometimes.....

But in the world of people like you, it was just blacks whining and crying again

[Soul Crusher]

uh huh..sure......and remember how many years ago blacks were complaining about police brutality yet everyone said "oh they are just making this up to get back at the cops for arresting them".....then the RODNEY KING VIDEO CAME OUT AND FOR THE FIRST TIME AMERICANS, especially white Americans WERE SHOCKED TO SEE THAT IT WAS REALLY HAPPENING.....AND NOW MANY YEARS LATER MANY VIDEO TAPES OF COPS ABUSING CITIZENS FOR NO REASON HAVE COME OUT and now it is accepted that the police do in fact act with brutality for no apparent reason sometimes.....

But in the world of people like you, it was just blacks whining and crying again

Stop thugging and dealing and you wont get jacked.

[Roger Bacon]

Stop thugging and dealing and you wont get jacked.

x2

[dario73]

Here's an example of privilege unfolding on the news right before our eye...

...we have people screaming the suspected marathon bombers have disgraced and left a stain on the entire Chechyn community.


No one ever said that about Jeffrey Dalhmer, ...and he was actually charged, tried & convicted.

One of the those people was the marathon bombers' very own UNCLE. 

Whorewell is right about you.

[24KT]

One of the those people was the marathon bombers' very own UNCLE. 

Whorewell is right about you.

The very first statement I heard like this was infact from his very own UNCLE.

And THAT's EXACTLY what I'm talking about... the pressure and expectation of having to represent an entire community.  When Dalhmer committed his crimes, who claimed him to be a stain on all American Caucasian males?

The very fact that despite his growing up in the USA, and obtaining American citizenship on Sept 11, 2012, he is not referred to as an American. Over and over, he is referred to as "an ethnic Chechyn"

Reminds me of 1988 when Ben Johnson won the Gold medal. He was a "Canadian Athlete", ...but days later when testing positive for banned substances, he went from "Canadian Athlete" to "Jamaican Runner"

Are you going to answer my question from the other thread anytime soon?