Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[FitnessFrenzy]

[gib]

Bitcoin will probably eventually be shut down due to 'security reasons' or something similar tying it to criminal activity. Exchanging Bitcoin into cash or transferring the funds into a bank account could be prohibited as well as any use or trading of the crytpocurrency.

If a real digital currency or Fed coin is created, they probably won't want competition or funds they are unable to track or tax.

What an incredibly stupid, ignorant, and naive statement. Did you not read above the comments which explain how a "Fed Coin" will actually drive demand for Bitcoin?

The First Amendment of our Constitution states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press. Bitcoin is essentially the combination of free speech, computer code, and a mathematical algorithm, the combination of which cannot be "banned". You are correct that banks may be (and indeed already are) required to comply with a range of anti-money laundering and KYC regulations. This only enhances the demand of Bitcoin (not reduces it), and the introduction of any Fed coin will only further enhance Bitcoin's use propositions.
 

[gib]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-02/paypal-ceo-says-digital-currencies-are-set-to-go-mainstream?

[Griffith]

What an incredibly stupid, ignorant, and naive statement. Did you not read above the comments which explain how a "Fed Coin" will actually drive demand for Bitcoin?

The First Amendment of our Constitution states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press. Bitcoin is essentially the combination of free speech, computer code, and a mathematical algorithm, the combination of which cannot be "banned". You are correct that banks may be (and indeed already are) required to comply with a range of anti-money laundering and KYC regulations. This only enhances the demand of Bitcoin (not reduces it), and the introduction of any Fed coin will only further enhance Bitcoin's use propositions.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better and keep ‘trusting’ in your government to protect you.

‘They will never do something like that’ lmao

If there’s a Fedcoin, Bitcoin will be shut down as it will defeat the objectives of a Fedcoin. Any bans or shutdowns can obviously also be achieved by indirect methods.

Try not to shit your pants and keep trusting in your government and others globally which want to protect you and allow untraceable, untaxed investments and money, and an easier way to pay for criminal activities 

[Mayday]

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better and keep ‘trusting’ in your government to protect you.

‘They will never do something like that’ lmao

If there’s a Fedcoin, Bitcoin will be shut down as it will defeat the objectives of a Fedcoin. Any bans or shutdowns can obviously also be achieved by indirect methods.

Try not to shit your pants and keep trusting in your government and others globally which wants to protect you and allow untraceable, untaxed investments and money and an easier way to pay for criminal activities 

Exchanges report user trades as part of being regulated. It is taxable and traceable just like any other exchange. That has been part of the reform post 2017.

The US digital coin is an extension of the existing system but used to bypass the govt and be controlled by the central bank in order to provide QE to the population. It is part of an expansionary monetary system. Bitcoin is a fixed system. Bitcoin isn’t going to be a competing currency because it isn’t a currency, it is a hedge. The threat isn’t to the US currency, it is a thread to gold and other hedges because it can draw capital away from those markets. Some may not be overly happy about that.

[Zillotch]

the existing system

will b nate robinsoned... there will b a single world system with a single world currency.

[obsidian]

Fully agree. I have pointed out in the past the idiocy of people buying alts "because they are cheaper". A misconception I believe even Mr A advocated at one point. These alts are really more akin to scams in the way they were promoted. BTC is king, and the logical conclusion is that we will collectively agree on one digitately currency, which then provides an exponential gravitating effect.

You are forgetting one thing. Ethereum is now moving to Proof of Stake. Coinbase will be supporting staking of Ethereum. When you stake ETH you get paid back ETH in interest. It is like a savings account that offers decent interest rates. This many believe will drive up the price of ETH because people will have an incentive to hold on to their ETH.

Bitcoin is not the only player in town. It has first mover advantage but it would be naive to think it alone will remain and increase in value. There are way too many people who have a stake in other currencies.

I plan on converting some of my ETH to BTC when I am happy with the ratio. The current ratio favors Bitcoin but that might change. The key thing is to have patience and play the game long. If I am going to stake my ETH it may be locked in for years. I'd rather lose all my investments in crypto than sell early and see it go to the moon. That's a decision I have made for myself. I am willing to lose it all.

There are some benefits of proof-of-stake.

    Less energy and monetary cost: for Bitcoin mining, miners need to spend around $50,000 per hour for electricity which means $1.2 million per day or $36 million per month. With proof-of-stake, you can cut all these costs out.
    No need for special equipment: since you cut out all mining costs, there is no need for better equipment or ASICs (application-specific integrated circuit).
    Stop 51% attacks: a 51% attack happens when a group of miners control over 50% of a blockchain’s hashing power, and use this power to mess with the blockchain. Proof-of-stake contributes 51% instead of this hypothetical group of miners, protecting the blockchain.
    Avoid bad validators: every validator who has their own funds locked up in the blockchain would make sure that they are not adding any wrong blocks to the chain because that would mean their entire stake invested would be taken away from them.
    Faster validation: all new blocks  created by a validator will be validated faster.
    Scalability: splitting the entire Ethereum network into multiple portions called ‘shards’. Each shard would contain its own independent state, meaning a unique set of account balances and smart contracts.

Even if the rules of proof-of-stake seem simplistic to implement, what differentiates Casper from the rest is that it incentivizes the honest miners and punishes the dishonest ones. If you have your stake on a malicious block, then your stake will be gone  forever. It will punish anyone who doesn’t play by the rules.

https://support.bitkub.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030574932-What-are-the-advantages-of-Proof-Of-Stake-

[Mayday]

will b nate robinsoned... there will b a single world system with a single world currency.

Ok. When.

I know what that scenario requires so I’d be keen to hear when you think that is going to happen.

[Mayday]

Bitcoin is not the only player in town. It has first mover advantage but it would be naive to think it alone will remain and increase in value. There are way too many people who have a stake in other currencies.

I plan on converting some of my ETH to BTC when I am happy with the ratio. The current ratio favors Bitcoin but that might change. The key thing is to have patience and play the game long. If I am going to stake my ETH it may be locked in for years. I'd rather lose all my investments in crypto than sell early and see it go to the moon. That's a decision I have made for myself. I am willing to lose it all.

I’ll chime in here as I made a comment along these lines.

Pretend you have a time machine. Go back to 2017 during the mad hype rush. Ok, make the statement you just made above back in 2017. Now, jump in your time machine to today and look at the market. What do you think the time machine version of you would say about that statement?

[Zillotch]

Ok. When.

I know what that scenario requires so I’d be keen to hear when you think that is going to happen.

when this launches (now called diem):

it will b backed by the US dollar... in time, leading world currencies will fall in line - effectively entangling the worlds economic systems, as it were, into a single entity... an entity.. which will, over more time.. change form.. into a solitary, absolute system of economic function.

the only system of economic function on earth.

as to specifically when.. you will find out in real time, right along with me.

[Griffith]

when this launches (now called diem):

it will b backed by the US dollar... in time, leading world currencies will fall in line - effectively entangling the worlds economic systems, as it were, into a single entity... an entity.. which will, over more time.. change form.. into a solitary, absolute system of economic function.

the only system of economic function on earth.

as to specifically when.. you will find out in real time, right along with me.

When will Diem be released?

[Griffith]

Exchanges report user trades as part of being regulated. It is taxable and traceable just like any other exchange. That has been part of the reform post 2017.

The US digital coin is an extension of the existing system but used to bypass the govt and be controlled by the central bank in order to provide QE to the population. It is part of an expansionary monetary system. Bitcoin is a fixed system. Bitcoin isn’t going to be a competing currency because it isn’t a currency, it is a hedge. The threat isn’t to the US currency, it is a thread to gold and other hedges because it can draw capital away from those markets. Some may not be overly happy about that.

Bitcoin can be used for payments, though it is relatively cumbersome.

Hard currencies are used as a hedge. Exchange Traded Funds as well. Bitcoin would still be competition.

[Mayday]

when this launches (now called diem):

it will b backed by the US dollar... in time, leading world currencies will fall in line - effectively entangling the worlds economic systems, as it were, into a single entity... an entity.. which will, over more time.. change form.. into a solitary, absolute system of economic function.

the only system of economic function on earth.

as to specifically when.. you will find out in real time, right along with me.

So you have no idea at all when this will all happen..... it really helps when some insight is actually given to broad statements like this.  A bit like saying ‘man will land on Mars’ don’t you think?

[Mayday]

Bitcoin can be used for payments, though it is relatively cumbersome.

Hard currencies are used as a hedge. Exchange Traded Funds as well. Bitcoin would still be competition.

Hard currencies are used as a safe haven, not a hedge. The USD is a hard currency, people hedge against the USD as it devalues.

Bitcoin, if it actually becomes something, will be a hedge against currencies because it is a fixed system of supply. It will be in direct competition with other hedges, in particular gold. It won’t be competing against currencies because it isn’t structured to be one.

However look at Diem. It is structured like a currency (ie expansionary) and is meant to be a currency used for online payments. That is a system that will compete directly against today’s currencies.

 Why is it that BTC (which isn’t structured like a currency) will be banned but Diem which is structured like a currency will take over the world no problem?

[Griffith]

Hard currencies are used as a safe haven, not a hedge. The USD is a hard currency, people hedge against the USD as it devalues.

Bitcoin, if it actually becomes something, will be a hedge against currencies because it is a fixed system of supply. It will be in direct competition with other hedges, in particular gold. It won’t be competing against currencies because it isn’t structured to be one.

However look at Diem. It is structured like a currency (ie expansionary) and is meant to be a currency used for online payments. That is a system that will compete directly against today’s currencies.

 Why is it that BTC (which isn’t structured like a currency) will be banned but Diem which is structured like a currency will take over the world no problem?

Hard currencies are used as a hedge against weaker currencies or currencies with high volatility or devaluation.

For instance, someone with Argentina Pesos might want to hedge against devaluation of their own currency by buying US dollars or Euros and using them as a store of value for this purpose. Companies and banks often hedge foreign exchange risk. In these instances, hedging involves different currencies, not necessarily hard currencies either.

The ‘problem’ with Bitcoin in comparison to another proposed currency or store of value is that it provides higher scope for tax evasion, is harder to track and can more easily be used for relatively anonymous purchases (done privately) which can be used in criminal activities.

Diem will not be anonymous, it’s created by Facebook and will be easier to monitor.

[Mayday]

Hard currencies are used as a hedge against weaker currencies or currencies with high volatility or devaluation.

For instance, someone with Argentina Pesos might want to hedge against devaluation of their own currency by buying US dollars or Euros and using them as a store of value for this purpose. Companies and banks often hedge foreign exchange risk. In these instances, hedging involves different currencies, not necessarily hard currencies either.

The ‘problem’ with Bitcoin in comparison to another proposed currency or store of value is that it provides higher scope for tax evasion, is harder to track and can more easily be used for relatively anonymous purchases (done privately) which can be used in criminal activities.

Diem will not be anonymous, it’s created by Facebook and will be easier to monitor.

Thanks for the context.

Absolutely, if I was in Zimbabwe earning Zim bucks which is well known for is huge devaluation, I will hold USD just like many do there today.

For business use I may ‘hedge’ currency for 3mths at a time to avoid short term market swings but that is very different to outright currency devaluation. I posted on here that the major countries all peg somewhat to the USD. When central banks do it in unison you won’t see these wild currency vs currency swings. what you will see is shares rocket up along with other asset classes the QE seeks out. Eg if I print 5% more Mayday bucks and you print 5% more Griff bucks our exchange rate remains the same. This is why all the US QE isn’t killing your dollar.

 I’d wager 99.99% on here use metals, shares, property to hedge against local currency. Today, None of us would keep 500k in the bank in any currency vs holding an asset. I think we probably understand each other on this one yeah?

For tax evasion on BTC sure it can be done but it’s not as easy as people think. Once you are in you’d pretty much have to stay in. You can’t put BTC into exchanges (transactions are reported) and you can’t ‘cash out’ as bank accounts are reported. One would have a personal wallet or use cold storage and assume someone selling something you want to buy will also being evading taxes in order for you to make a tax free purchase, not something I can do today.

I can’t see the tax issue being large enough when today govts are concerned about no wage inflation and growing long term unemployment. They are currently testing basal income which is the exact opposite of taxes. No need to worry about average joe avoiding tax if you are paying them directly.

[tres_taco_combo]

any of you guys use your bitcoin for a down payment on a home, or cash out to invest it or enjoy it? or keeping in the account?

[Mayday]

Diem will not be anonymous, it’s created by Facebook and will be easier to monitor.

Anonymity isn’t the issue. Taxation isn’t the issue.

A privately controlled expansionary currency competing directly with a centrally controlled expansionary currency is in direct conflict with the economy. Even the very basic of basic knowledge should understand why that is.

Are you claiming all global govts, central banks and financial industry leaders today are ready to hand over the keys to Zuckerberg to control the global monetary system?

Zillo was unable to answer any timeframe just that when it happens it happens..... can you do better than that as It seems people are looking out towards the 500yr mark in order for their statements to be correct.

Anabolic was at least honest and said he was working on 100yr+ Timelines for his claims to happen.  Whereas I look at 1yr, 3yr, 10yr for my claims which very much answers the ‘what happens now’ timeframe.

[Mayday]

any of you guys use your bitcoin for a down payment on a home, or cash out to invest it or enjoy it? or keeping in the account?

50% tax if I sell inside 1yr. 25% tax if I sell after 1yr.

I was in at 7k and I hold an uncomfortable amount.

At the value today I don’t feel like it has become anything significant for me to cash out. I have a 10yr outlook though. People thinking it will go to 100k next year will be disappointed IMO.

[Theoak*]

50% tax if I sell inside 1yr. 25% tax if I sell after 1yr.

I was in at 7k and I hold an uncomfortable amount.

At the value today I don’t feel like it has become anything significant for me to cash out. I have a 10yr outlook though. People thinking it will go to 100k next year will be disappointed IMO.

You and gib seem quite late to the party considering, 5k and 7k entry points.
Where were you guys 6+ years ago?
Also what do you consider uncomfortable? 7-8 figures?

[Mayday]

You and gib seem quite late to the party considering, 5k and 7k entry points.
Where were you guys 6+ years ago?
Also what do you consider uncomfortable? 7-8 figures?

That’s post pandemic during it’s last down cycle.

I don’t do much market participation.

Uncomfortable is a reference to suggest it’s enough where I calculated what was more than reasonable then I added 15% which made it uncomfortable.

Keeping in mind crypto is nothing in today’s world. Magic beans with the promise of a beanstalk. I’m not hyping it to others. I’m looking at my knowledge of the monetary system and decided to push myself this time and test my predictions. It’s easy to be an armchair expert with nothing on the line but put your money where your mouth is and you become more thorough in your analysis.

I like to be challenged over it. I have no problem with being wrong because I will be right the next time. Every question asked is a time where I review how things operate, a chance to check my assessment is correct.

I’m either going to do extremely well or have a gigantic fuckup where it turns out everything I said was incorrect and everybody else was right.

[gib]

You and gib seem quite late to the party considering, 5k and 7k entry points.
Where were you guys 6+ years ago?
Also what do you consider uncomfortable? 7-8 figures?

In financial terms in was already very comfortable 6+ years ago financially. I held no Bitcoin, and was both skeptical and unknowledgeable. (However, unlike Mr Anabolic, I educated myself). I see and understand the same things that Maday does). Win investing, if you make an error in your approach or thinking, you need to adjust and correct it. Stubborn ignorance is not a good option. The most successful investors (and indeed people in life) stay open minded and are always questioning,

As for what is an "uncomfortable amount to hold", this should not be measured in nominal amounts, but rather % of portfolio allocation. Everyone should own some bitcoin. I would suggest an allocation of net worth of 0.5% to 10%. For most people an allocation of around 1%-2% is a good start. Can gradually build on that and move fiat into BTC over time as a store of value if needed.

[gib]

50% tax if I sell inside 1yr. 25% tax if I sell after 1yr.

I was in at 7k and I hold an uncomfortable amount.

At the value today I don’t feel like it has become anything significant for me to cash out. I have a 10yr outlook though. People thinking it will go to 100k next year will be disappointed IMO.

One slight additional comment to make here. Mayday may be referring to taxes which may apply in the US. The vast majority of people do not pay tax on BTC gains (both in the US and globally). (I certainly don't). But yes, some jurisdictions do treat capital gains, or "trading gains if being conducted as a business activity" as taxable income. Note, if your reside somewhere taxable you can simply hold, and then cash in offshore at a luxury travel destination country of your choice. Or you can exchange for goods/services/fiat currency away from any regulated exchange, thus avoiding a tax claim in that way. If you are worried, best is simply to hold long term and not realize a taxable gain.

[gib]

any of you guys use your bitcoin for a down payment on a home, or cash out to invest it or enjoy it? or keeping in the account?

For me its long term HODL. The utility of BTC will become apparent over time, at which point I will greatly enjoy all the protection, security, options in life, and benefits that BTC brings me.

[gib]

You are forgetting one thing. Ethereum is now moving to Proof of Stake. Coinbase will be supporting staking of Ethereum. When you stake ETH you get paid back ETH in interest. It is like a savings account that offers decent interest rates. This many believe will drive up the price of ETH because people will have an incentive to hold on to their ETH.

Bitcoin is not the only player in town. It has first mover advantage but it would be naive to think it alone will remain and increase in value. There are way too many people who have a stake in other currencies.

I plan on converting some of my ETH to BTC when I am happy with the ratio. The current ratio favors Bitcoin but that might change. The key thing is to have patience and play the game long. If I am going to stake my ETH it may be locked in for years. I'd rather lose all my investments in crypto than sell early and see it go to the moon. That's a decision I have made for myself. I am willing to lose it all.

There are some benefits of proof-of-stake.

    Less energy and monetary cost: for Bitcoin mining, miners need to spend around $50,000 per hour for electricity which means $1.2 million per day or $36 million per month. With proof-of-stake, you can cut all these costs out.
    No need for special equipment: since you cut out all mining costs, there is no need for better equipment or ASICs (application-specific integrated circuit).
    Stop 51% attacks: a 51% attack happens when a group of miners control over 50% of a blockchain’s hashing power, and use this power to mess with the blockchain. Proof-of-stake contributes 51% instead of this hypothetical group of miners, protecting the blockchain.
    Avoid bad validators: every validator who has their own funds locked up in the blockchain would make sure that they are not adding any wrong blocks to the chain because that would mean their entire stake invested would be taken away from them.
    Faster validation: all new blocks  created by a validator will be validated faster.
    Scalability: splitting the entire Ethereum network into multiple portions called ‘shards’. Each shard would contain its own independent state, meaning a unique set of account balances and smart contracts.

Even if the rules of proof-of-stake seem simplistic to implement, what differentiates Casper from the rest is that it incentivizes the honest miners and punishes the dishonest ones. If you have your stake on a malicious block, then your stake will be gone  forever. It will punish anyone who doesn’t play by the rules.

https://support.bitkub.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030574932-What-are-the-advantages-of-Proof-Of-Stake-

Watch this. It explains well why BTC will succeed long term over BTC, including the problems with ETH not being truly decentralized: