Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[obsidian]

Say there is 100B of actual money invested into the total crypto market.

In 2017 the 100B was split across 1,700 coins. In 2020 the 100B is split across 7,000 coins.

Hence it is diluted however BTC is the only coin to be at it’s previous high meanwhile alt coins are well off the previous high. The market has decided BTC is ‘something’ and per gib there is money flowing in which is long term holders.

Of course they are trying to devalue the dollar. Inflation is required for growth. However Unemployment is at global highs and you don’t have wage inflation when you have triple the unemployed than normal because there in this environment you have downward pressure on wages. Reduced hours. Reduced wage due to working from home instead of an office. Lockdowns. Restrictions of trade etc, all an argument for cheaper labour. 

it will be years to get wages resolved which will be done via basal income because they blew up the job market. Basal income solves the lack of wage inflation argument, just give everyone more money and you can create trickle up economics.

You make good points. I agree since 2018 Bitcoin is up more than Ethereum. In 2020 though Ethereum is up more.

The total crypto market cap is over 500 billion. Ethereum's highest market cap was 135 billion in early 2018. The market cap today is 67 billion or about 5.36 times less than Bitcoin's current market cap.

Some investors anticipate Ethereum's market cap to eventually surpass Bitcoin's though.

https://coinjournal.net/news/investor-claims-ethereum-may-surpass-market-cap-of-bitcoin/

[obsidian]

Bitcoin:

Jan 01, 2020
   
Price: $7,200.17
   
Volume: 18,565,664,997
   
Market Cap: 130,580,829,150

Dec 13, 2020
   
Price: 19,142.38
   
Volume: 25,450,468,637
   
Market Cap: 355,479,173,806

Ethereum:

Jan 01, 2020
   
Price: 130.80
   
Volume: 7,935,230,330
   
Market Cap: 14,271,059,633

Dec 13, 2020
   
Price: 589.66
   
Volume: 9,070,377,862
   
Market Cap: 67,115,726,662

As of today in 2020 Ethereum's price increased 450% and its market cap increased 470%.

As of today in 2020 Bitcoin's price increased 265% and its market cap increased 272%.

And Ethereum's price spiked higher a few weeks ago where the increase was even more dramatic at a closing price of $614.84 on 11/30/2020 or 475% increase since January.

So the 2020 trend appears to favor Ethereum.

[obsidian]

If you invested $10,000 in Ethereum in January it would now be worth around $45,000.

If you invested $10,000 in Bitcoin in January it would now be worth around $26,500.

[Mayday]

In which case you are trading crypto, not holding.

No problem with that and you proved my point which is alt coins are for traders.

It’s no secret that the big buyers purchase 80%+ BTC for their total crypto holdings. Therefore there is a consist stream of more energy being pumped into BTC than any other coin. The ratio to BTC you are wanting will increase, not decrease as a result.

Extend your timeline to include the 2017 peak and Eth is a 50% loss vs BTC which is flat. This is caused by what I said above. Sure, jump into alt coins for short term hoping to time the pump and dump. I don’t trade but if I did I’d be playing xrp, eth, BtC trying to get the pump and dumps right.

[obsidian]

In which case you are trading crypto, not holding.

No problem with that and you proved my point which is alt coins are for traders.

It’s no secret that the big buyers purchase 80%+ BTC for their total crypto holdings. Therefore there is a consist stream of more energy being pumped into BTC than any other coin. The ratio to BTC you are wanting will increase, not decrease as a result.

Extend your timeline to include the 2017 peak and Eth is a 50% loss vs BTC which is flat. This is caused by what I said above. Sure, jump into alt coins for short term hoping to time the pump and dump. I don’t trade but if I did I’d be playing xrp, eth, BtC trying to get the pump and dumps right.

I am not trading I am hodling. Been doing it since 2017 before the pump. I am going to stake my ETH and leave it for a few years.

Trading seems attractive until you lose your shirt. It's easy in hindsight to say yeah you should have bought at the lows and sold at the highs. That takes a lot of effort and balls to do and is not that easy - at least for me. I just set it and forget about it.

[gib]

Maday is right on this with his comments Obsidian. You (and also Mr A) are confusing volatility with long term trends.

In the short term, yes its true that any of the alts could outperform BTC for a period of time. That does not mean they are a good investment. Nor does it mean that you can successfully pick or predict which of the alts will outperform for such short periods. 

It often helps with long term clarity, if you take things to their ultimate logical conclusion. Think of it this way. I could invent a new crypto, and on a single transaction to a "trader" (aka a speculative sucker) make an unbelievably high 10,000% return on a single trade. That does not mean that what he bought is good long term value or that the alt I created and sold will get long term adoption.

Tens of thousands of alts have come (and gone). So much nonsense out there around all XRP, Stella, and all the rest of them.
Their market caps collectively is falling against BTC, and this will continue over time. And if you look at volume of actual trade its even higher for BTC - around 92% BTC vs 8% all alts.

For BTC to succeed as the collectively agreed upon store of value, it is inherent that BTCs imitators will fail. We see this phenomenon in nature. We see it in business. We see it in politics. We've seen it in the history of currency adoption in the analogue world.

At best ETH may be a poor mans BTC, much like silver is to gold. But even that is unlikely as the silver use case arose due to the lack of quick divisibility of gold (hence a lower-cost smaller denomination of value for day to day use). BTC is digital and infinitely divisible. So, what we will most likely see is BTC as an underlying store of base value, with various protocols (and even fiat currency) being smaller day to day denomination trading over the underlying settlement value of BTC.

[obsidian]

Maday is right on this his comments Obsidian. You (and also Mr A) are confusing volatility with long term trends. In the short term, any of the alts could outperform BTC for a period of time. That does not mean they are a good investment. It often helps, if you take things to their ultimate logical conclusion. Think of it this way. I could invent a new crypto, and on a single transaction to a "trader" (aka a speculative sucker) make an unbelievably high 10,000% return on a single trade. That does not mean that what I sold is good long term value or that the alt will get long term adoption.

Tens of thousands of alts have come and gone. So much nonsense out there around all XRP, Stella, and all the rest of them. Their market caps collectively is falling against BTC, and this will continue over time. And if you look at volume of actual trade its even higher for BTC - around 92% BTC vs 8% all alts. For BTC to succeed as the collectively agreed on store of value its inherent that imitators will fail. We see this phenomenon in nature. We see it in the history of currency adoption in the analogue world. At best BTC may be a poor mans ETC much like silver is to gold. But even that is unlikely as the silver use case arose due to the lack of quick divisibility of gold. BTC is digital and infinitely divisible. What we will most likely see is BTC as an underlying store of value, with various protocols (and even fiat currency) being smaller day to day denomination trading over the underlying settlement value of BTC.

Do what you want. You're all in Bitcoin and only Bitcoin. I don't see it that way. Time will tell. Bitcoin is dominated by China. A single province in China controls 54 percent of Bitcoin’s hash rate.

What if China decides to pull the plug? They've already shutdown electrical power for a few BTC mining facilities.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/12/11/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-mining-hash-rate-china-renewable-energy-blockchain/

https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-s-market-cap-surpasses-gm-cme-and-tech-stocks-what-s-next

2020 has been an impressive year for the Ethereum network and Ether (ETH) price. In November the Eth2 deposit contract quietly launched and before the end of the month the contract had reached capacity with 524,288 Ether locked.

When Black Thursday occured on March 12, nearly every cryptocurrency had its price crushed and Ether was not spared from the carnage. After trading for as little as $86 on March 12, Ether price recovered to post a year-to-date gain of 322% and the altcoin set a 2020 high at $635.70 on Dec.1.

Despite the accolades being lauded upon Bitcoin as it broke to a new all-time high today, Ethereum price has actually outperformed BTC in 2020.

https://coinmarketcap.com/headlines/news/no-of-ethereum-nodes-surpasses-bitcoins-for-the-first-time/

Ethereum is booming and now the so-called “world’s decentralized computer” has now surpassed Bitcoin in terms of the total nodes, new data showed.

Ethereum’s node crusade

Data from Ethereum node service and technology company Bitfly showed that the Ethereum network now has over 11137 active nodes, as per a tweet. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has 10981 active nodes.

    There are now more #Ethereum nodes than #Bitcoin nodes.

    Ethereum: 11137
    Bitcoin: 10981https://t.co/E0viD19GZthttps://t.co/rnf9ZWuW5Y pic.twitter.com/lFOd6UwPYb

    — Bitfly (@etherchain_org) November 29, 2020

Nodes are essentially the backbone of any blockchain system. Within these is where the blockchain’s data is stored, and they can be run on both commercial servers or the average user computer.

[gib]

A few comments.

1. Number of nodes do not equate to value. If it were that easy, then, well you know the rest ...

2. BTC has around 100,000 nodes (your numbers are missing a decimal place). Assuming half are current, that's still 50,000 active nodes. And that security will now only increase as when institutional money comes in and BTC is spread across more players, they are surely incentivized to operate nodes also.

3. China cannot "pull the plug", unless it wishes to cut off both access to all types of electricity and to the internet at the same time (which is effectively impossible). It fact, it you recall it tried "pulling the plug" banning both BTC and mining (as Mr A proudly proclaimed at the time in his failed attempt to discredit BTC as past of his acceptance journey). Well, we can all see how effective that "ban" was now, can't we. Reality is, you cannot ban the practical application of an mathematical algorithm.

Mining gravitates to where it can be done at the lowest cost, as sure as water flows to the ocean. Once it becomes inefficient in one country, or via one type of energy source, economics dictate that a more efficient player will step in to fill the gap.

You are generally correct. A huge amount of mining currently is done in Sichuan province. I've been there and seen it. Not sure of total % now, but yes could be 50% or so, but I expect that over time we will see mining become more balanced and diversified to other parts of the world. There is no reason why, long term, it should be cheaper to mine in china than in other global location. Either way, where the mining is done is of no concern. BTC is the mathematical capture of energy and effort via a mathematical algorithm, and that algorithm is country agnostic and immutable.

[Mayday]

Do what you want. You're all in Bitcoin and only Bitcoin. I don't see it that way. Time will tell. Bitcoin is dominated by China. A single province in China controls 54 percent of Bitcoin’s hash rate.

What if China decides to pull the plug? They've already shutdown electrical power for a few BTC mining facilities.

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/12/11/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-mining-hash-rate-china-renewable-energy-blockchain/

https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-s-market-cap-surpasses-gm-cme-and-tech-stocks-what-s-next

2020 has been an impressive year for the Ethereum network and Ether (ETH) price. In November the Eth2 deposit contract quietly launched and before the end of the month the contract had reached capacity with 524,288 Ether locked.

When Black Thursday occured on March 12, nearly every cryptocurrency had its price crushed and Ether was not spared from the carnage. After trading for as little as $86 on March 12, Ether price recovered to post a year-to-date gain of 322% and the altcoin set a 2020 high at $635.70 on Dec.1.

Despite the accolades being lauded upon Bitcoin as it broke to a new all-time high today, Ethereum price has actually outperformed BTC in 2020.

Well go back to 2017 and I was in Eth, not BTC. I sold Eth  right around peak.

To play the numbers game I’d counter your 300%+ gains with the context that ETh had 92% of it’s value wiped out from peak vs BtC losing 68%. To date BtC has recovered back to peak and Eth only recovered to 40%. This is why I switched to BTC.

If you are holding for long term the risk you are taking on Eth is along the lines of xrp. There will be a big pullback on BtC to 16k or 13k, alt coins will get smashed during the pullback. You hold during the drop because it’s your strategy but what if Eth doesn’t recover and 5yrs later it still sits at a low?

One of the guys a few pages back bought at peak and waited 3yrs for BtC to recover so he could get out. People who bought Eth and xrp are still waiting.....

[Pasita]

In general, when do you think cryptocurrency will become common?

[Mr Anabolic]

In general, when do you think cryptocurrency will become common?

Sell everything you got and go all in... you cannot lose... it's a sure thing!

[FitnessFrenzy]

$ 20.271,05

[gib]

Sell everything you got and go all in... you cannot lose... it's a sure thing!

Its fine to hold other assets. And also to hold small amounts of cash (which will depreciated overtime) for day to day transactions.

But it is ESSENTIAL that every one of us have some Bitcoin. Over time, most of us will have a greater and greater % of BTC vs cash. I have said this many times. Buy BTC. HODL. Wait. Simple.

[gib]

...Oh and 20,000. 

[polychronopolous]

We are now seeing scarcity at work.

The all time high has been broken and we are now entering the price discovery phase.

Expect the price to go much higher based on it's FUNDAMENTAL value.

[gib]

We are now seeing scarcity at work.

The all time high has been broken and we are now entering the price discovery phase.

Expect the price to go much higher based on it's FUNDAMENTAL value.

Agree entirely. We are still very very early in the development of a global decentralized store of value which eventually EVERYTHING will be pegged to in one way or another. We are literally witnessing the birth of a new global currency compressed over a historically short period of time (several decades as opposed to several thousands of years that it took for gold). Quite a special moment in time to witness.

[gib]

Me thinks $5000 was THE top.  Let's see if I'm right.

[Mr Anabolic]

Its fine to hold other assets. And also to hold small amounts of cash (which will depreciated overtime) for day to day transactions.

But it is ESSENTIAL that every one of us have some Bitcoin. Over time, most of us will have a greater and greater % of BTC vs cash. I have said this many times. Buy BTC. HODL. Wait. Simple.

And if you truly believed that, you would've never have sold at $16K. 

You'll sell it when it looks like it's dumping, just like you did last time.

[Mr Anabolic]

I could go back and re-post all the utter bullshit you posted during this thread, but it's a waste of my time.

When blips crash again, you'll disappear from this thread like you did the first time.

[Mr Anabolic]

We are now seeing scarcity at work.

The all time high has been broken and we are now entering the price discovery phase.

Expect the price to go much higher based on it's FUNDAMENTAL value.

No, you're seeing this...

[gib]

And if you truly believed that, you would've never have sold at $16K. 

You'll sell it when it looks like it's dumping, just like you did last time.

Mr A. You are confusing short term volatility with a long term trend. I have explained this to you before.

I took some nice gains, 500% ROI over 6 months, which I felt was prudent to do. Then rebought again on the rebound. Maybe I was just lucky at the time - who knows. Either way, we should now look forwards. You did not buy at all (so you claim). You still have ample time to get in ahead of a massive societal trend. Stop being such a stubborn luddite, and act now! It is truly ironic that a prepper like you, who actually has the mental capacity to see what is going on around you globally, still refuses to buy BTC. You understand the purpose of gold. Now you just need to make the mental leap into the 20th century.

There will be blips along the way, as the emergence of a new global currency is bound to have swings between over-enthusiasm and doubt. But make not doubts about it. The long term trend is still up from here for many years to come and the prices we see now are microscopic compared to what they will be. Owning a single Bitcoin is still in reach for many. But even it not, everyone should buy whatever they can now. And NO ONE should be so foolish as to own none given what is coming.

[gib]

I could go back and re-post all the utter bullshit you posted during this thread, but it's a waste of my time.

When blips crash again, you'll disappear from this thread like you did the first time.

Everything I have said was correct. Many have thanked me for it. But yes, please do go back and read it. All of it. And truly try to understand what I explained to you.

[Mr Anabolic]

Everything I have said was correct. Many have thanked me for it. But yes, please do go back and read it. All of it. And truly try to understand what I explained to you.

lol - you have a lot to learn.

[SOMEPARTS]

Mr A. You are confusing short term volatility with a long term trend. I have explained this to you before.

I took some nice gains, 500% ROI over 6 months, which I felt was prudent to do. Then rebought again on the rebound. Maybe I was just lucky at the time - who knows. Either way, we should now look forwards. You did not buy at all (so you claim). You still have ample time to get in ahead of a massive societal trend. Stop being such a stubborn luddite, and act now! It is truly ironic that a prepper like you, who actually has the mental capacity to see what is going on around you globally, still refuses to buy BTC. You understand the purpose of gold. Now you just need to make the mental leap into the 20th century.

There will be blips along the way, as the emergence of a new global currency is bound to have swings between over-enthusiasm and doubt. But make not doubts about it. The long term trend is still up from here for many years to come and the prices we see now are microscopic compared to what they will be. Owning a single Bitcoin is still in reach for many. But even it not, everyone should buy whatever they can now. And NO ONE should be so foolish as to own none given what is coming.

What do the people that actually run the current money system stand to gain from this? They own the govts, the internet and the media. Look at what they did with the USA election, they have immeasurable power when it comes to steering both policy and public opinion. When I know why they would want in on this power eating dinosaur of a crypto I will be more interested.

[Mr Anabolic]

Mr A. You are confusing short term volatility with a long term trend. I have explained this to you before.

I took some nice gains, 500% ROI over 6 months, which I felt was prudent to do. Then rebought again on the rebound. Maybe I was just lucky at the time - who knows. Either way, we should now look forwards. You did not buy at all (so you claim). You still have ample time to get in ahead of a massive societal trend. Stop being such a stubborn luddite, and act now! It is truly ironic that a prepper like you, who actually has the mental capacity to see what is going on around you globally, still refuses to buy BTC. You understand the purpose of gold. Now you just need to make the mental leap into the 20th century.

There will be blips along the way, as the emergence of a new global currency is bound to have swings between over-enthusiasm and doubt. But make not doubts about it. The long term trend is still up from here for many years to come and the prices we see now are microscopic compared to what they will be. Owning a single Bitcoin is still in reach for many. But even it not, everyone should buy whatever they can now. And NO ONE should be so foolish as to own none given what is coming.

"Social trend" is right.  FOMO is human nature.  Blips is in the greed phase, possibly the euphoric phase.  Ppl start to become irrational with the upwards price action.   

The majority of ppl in the US do not have even $500 saved for an emergency let alone $20,000 for a blipcoin. 

To anyone else here who is simply trading blips... keep an eye on that monthly chart.  When you see a big wick down like at the end of 2017, it's time to sell.