Author Topic: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger  (Read 66680 times)

Conker

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #350 on: April 16, 2017, 06:16:42 AM »
Good points.

In complicated cases where the law is unclear, the side of appearances and public opinion tends to prevail in court.

Are appearances and public opinion favoring which side?



here's an interesting analysis from some air travel website.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/

"So far the conversation has centered around how this passenger was involuntarily denied boarding. The Department of Transportation has specific guidelines in place for how airlines can deny boarding to passengers. However, that may not be the case at all here. First let me say that I’m not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt (though I’ve talked to some lawyer friends about this, and they seem to have a similar perspective).

The passenger wasn’t denied boarding — he had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat.

Later they come onboard and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations:

Here’s the contract of carriage regarding denied boarding compensation
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
Here’s the contract of carriage regarding refusal to transport
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21

The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In looking at the Department of Transportation regulations"


pretty much identical to how i see this playing out. rather than being ambiguous i think the legislation is pretty clear.

i think there is a way out for the security guards/police. depending what they say was the reason the airline gave them for removing the passenger.

they may have been under the impression that the passenger was just behaving badly rather knowing the specifics. in that case as long as it's judged they removed him using no more than reasonable force they may be able to get off the hook. the airline has no chance.

Bam-bam

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #351 on: April 16, 2017, 06:35:39 AM »
here's an interesting analysis from some air travel website.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/

"So far the conversation has centered around how this passenger was involuntarily denied boarding. The Department of Transportation has specific guidelines in place for how airlines can deny boarding to passengers. However, that may not be the case at all here. First let me say that I’m not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt (though I’ve talked to some lawyer friends about this, and they seem to have a similar perspective).

The passenger wasn’t denied boarding — he had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat.

Later they come onboard and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations:

Here’s the contract of carriage regarding denied boarding compensation
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
Here’s the contract of carriage regarding refusal to transport
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21

The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In looking at the Department of Transportation regulations"


pretty much identical to how i see this playing out. rather than being ambiguous i think the legislation is pretty clear.

i think there is a way out for the security guards/police. depending what they say was the reason the airline gave them for removing the passenger.

they may have been under the impression that the passenger was just behaving badly rather knowing the specifics. in that case as long as it's judged they removed him using no more than reasonable force they may be able to get off the hook. the airline has no chance.

happy to read that!

Don_Dada

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #352 on: April 16, 2017, 11:08:42 AM »
here's an interesting analysis from some air travel website.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/11/united-denied-boarding-illegal/

"So far the conversation has centered around how this passenger was involuntarily denied boarding. The Department of Transportation has specific guidelines in place for how airlines can deny boarding to passengers. However, that may not be the case at all here. First let me say that I’m not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt (though I’ve talked to some lawyer friends about this, and they seem to have a similar perspective).

The passenger wasn’t denied boarding — he had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat.

Later they come onboard and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations:

Here’s the contract of carriage regarding denied boarding compensation
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
Here’s the contract of carriage regarding refusal to transport
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21

The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In looking at the Department of Transportation regulations"


pretty much identical to how i see this playing out. rather than being ambiguous i think the legislation is pretty clear.

i think there is a way out for the security guards/police. depending what they say was the reason the airline gave them for removing the passenger.

they may have been under the impression that the passenger was just behaving badly rather knowing the specifics. in that case as long as it's judged they removed him using no more than reasonable force they may be able to get off the hook.
the airline has no chance.

I agree with this. You can't blame the cops/security guards. the guilty party is the airline company.

Simple Simon

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #353 on: April 16, 2017, 01:35:03 PM »
Fixed.

exactly, if you get proved wrong just claim you were trolling.... ;D

Nails

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #354 on: April 27, 2017, 03:27:01 PM »



https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/physician-dragged-off-flight-settles-united-192558121.html

Physician who was dragged off flight settles with United


CHICAGO (AP) -- The passenger who was dragged off a United flight after he refused to give up his seat to airline employees settled with the airline for an undisclosed sum Thursday in an apparent attempt by the company to put the fiasco behind it as quickly as possible.

David Dao's legal team said in a brief statement that the agreement includes a provision that the amount will remain confidential. One his lawyers praised United CEO Oscar Munoz.

Munoz "said he was going to do the right thing, and he has," Thomas Demetrio said in the statement. "In addition, United has taken full responsibility for what happened ... without attempting to blame others, including the city of Chicago."

The settlement came less than three weeks after the episode, before Dao had even sued. The deal means United will not face a lawsuit that could have been costly, both in legal bills and in further public-relations damage.

United issued a brief statement, saying it was pleased to report "an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard Flight 3411."

Cellphone video of the April 9 confrontation aboard a jetliner at Chicago's O'Hare Airport sparked widespread public outrage over the way Dao was treated.

The footage showed airport police officers pulling the 69-year-old Kentucky physician from his seat and dragging him down the aisle. His lawyer said he lost teeth and suffered a broken nose and a concussion.

In a phone interview with The Associated Press, Demetrio said the settlement also averts any lawsuit against the city of Chicago. Airport police officers who work for the city pulled Dao off the jet.

"I praise Mr. Munoz and his people for not trying to throw the city under the bus or pass the buck," Demetrio said. "He stood in front of the world and has stated that, 'We, United, take full responsibility.'"

Demetrio said it was "unheard of" for a company to admit responsibility so quickly and completely.

"I hope corporate America notices when you goof up, people respect you a heck of a lot more when you admit it, instead of making people go through three years of depositions, motions, court hearings."

He said Dao was also impressed that "United stepped up to the plate."

The incident arose from a common air travel issue — a fully booked flight. Wanting to seat four crew members, the airline offered passengers $400 and later $800 to voluntarily relinquish their seats. When no one did, United selected four passengers at random.

Three people got off the flight, but Dao refused, saying he needed to get home to treat patients the next day. The airline then summoned the officers, who forcibly removed Dao.

The incident was a major embarrassment for United. The company's response in the immediate aftermath was widely criticized. Munoz first defended the airline and described Dao as "belligerent" before publicly apologizing days later and vowing to do better.

The three airport police officers who dragged Dao from the plane were placed on leave from the Chicago Department of Aviation.

The agency released a report April 24 in which the officer who pulled Dao from his seat, James Long, gave his version of events. Long said Dao was verbally and physically abusive and was flailing his arms before he lost his balance and struck his mouth on an armrest.

The department's roughly 300 officers guard the city's two main airports but are not part of the regular Chicago police force. They receive less training and cannot carry guns inside the terminals.

Also Thursday, the airline released a report detailing mistakes that led to the incident. United said would raise to $10,000 the limit on the payments it offers to customers who give up seats on oversold flights and increase training for employees.

United has vowed to reduce, but not eliminate, overbooking.

The airline has not said whether ticket sales have dropped since Dao was removed from the jet.

Kwon

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #355 on: April 27, 2017, 03:29:56 PM »
The settlement came less than three weeks after the episode, before Dao had even sued. The deal means United will not face a lawsuit that could have been costly, both in legal bills and in further public-relations damage.


Wonder how many million dollares of Peace?
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Zillotch

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #356 on: April 27, 2017, 03:35:19 PM »
so the tard got his payday... that sets a great precedent. idiots.

Tennisballz

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #357 on: April 27, 2017, 03:42:03 PM »
so the tard got his payday... that sets a great precedent. idiots.
x2.  That guy doesn't deserve any significant amount of money.  The airline should comp his tickets and throw in a couple thousand bucks.  Nothing more.

Rudee

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #358 on: April 27, 2017, 03:47:11 PM »
so the tard got his payday... that sets a great precedent. idiots.

You're going to see copycats in the future intentionally get into conflicts with airline staff in hopes they get their own viral video, along with the public on their side (regardless if the passenger was clearly in the wrong) and a juicy payday from the airline.

Nails

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #359 on: April 27, 2017, 03:56:51 PM »
Already did, look a the video with the mother crying crocodile tears because of the stroller , and the fat white knight that jumped off his seat once the situation was under control


You're going to see copycats in the future intentionally get into conflicts with airline staff in hopes they get their own viral video, along with the public on their side (regardless if the passenger was clearly in the wrong) and a juicy payday from the airline.

Kwon

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #360 on: April 27, 2017, 04:33:31 PM »
x2.  That guy doesn't deserve any significant amount of money.  The airline should comp his tickets and throw in a couple thousand bucks.  Nothing more.

Guessing he got a lot more than a couple thousand bucks!
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Rambone

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #361 on: May 09, 2017, 07:27:54 AM »
Update: United Airlines' April air traffic increases 7.4% and the stock is currently at $78.41/share or up 11.3% since the incident. Man, you guys really called the downfall of the company LOL!!!

Kwon

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #362 on: May 09, 2017, 07:35:40 AM »
Update: United Airlines' April air traffic increases 7.4% and the stock is currently at $78.41/share or up 11.3% since the incident. Man, you guys really called the downfall of the company LOL!!!

How much cash did they fellow get though?

That's what everyone wants to know
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Rambone

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #363 on: May 09, 2017, 07:37:35 AM »
How much cash did they fellow get though?

That's what everyone wants to know

Who cares? Fuck that gook. That's peanuts in comparison. Just proving the arm-chair stock analyst in this thread dead wrong.

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #364 on: May 09, 2017, 08:04:26 AM »
x2.  That guy doesn't deserve any significant amount of money.  The airline should comp his tickets and throw in a couple thousand bucks.  Nothing more.

The bad PR from a long drawn out court case would hurt them more than just settling with a couple million now.  pretty sure these airlines have insurance policies for all sorts of lawsuits so it won't cost them a thing.

Plus how many million people fly united a week?  All they need to do is raise ticket prices $1 across the board, no one would ever even notice and they recoup that money back in days.

DroppingPlates

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #365 on: May 09, 2017, 08:12:39 AM »
Update: United Airlines' April air traffic increases 7.4% and the stock is currently at $78.41/share or up 11.3% since the incident. Man, you guys really called the downfall of the company LOL!!!

They got a bad review by papa Ron, so they will be next on this list

El Diablo Blanco

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #366 on: May 09, 2017, 08:16:13 AM »
They got a bad review by papa Ron, so they will be next on this list

Doesn't matter, they'll just use a gimmick airline name to get around him.

Kwon

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #367 on: May 09, 2017, 08:40:47 AM »
Who cares? Fuck that gook. That's peanuts in comparison. Just proving the arm-chair stock analyst in this thread dead wrong.

Since it sets a precedent, and many more will try doing it, its good to know how many millions you can get by doing it.
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SF1900

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #368 on: May 09, 2017, 10:06:48 AM »
Didn't "Be There" say that this guy wouldn't get a dime, no matter what ??? ??? ???
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DroppingPlates

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Re: United Airlines Overbooks Flights - and Beats up a Paying Passenger
« Reply #369 on: May 09, 2017, 12:23:59 PM »
Doesn't matter, they'll just use a gimmick airline name to get around him.

Well played :D