Tom Platz - Back at it at 65

[Fortress]

At one time Tom was very into acting classes. When he was in his prime, I always saw a Robert-Redford vibe in his face (no homo). The anabolic drugs made his jaw dramatically more ... pronounced, as well. He did some small-time theatre, I think. Anyway ...

He has a love for cars, so him dealing in them in some capacity never seemed too far off.

Corporate atmosphere? Sure, in certain forms. He’s super animated and passionate.

Platz is my original muscle-man inspiration and informed a lot of how I view the sport in its purity. As I’ve matured as a weight trainer I have come to disagree with elements of how he trained, but I also would never question the energy and ferocity with which he attacked the weights. Certainly he was a gifted squatter and presented the world a lower body that in many ways still has not been bettered.

Tom’s a romantic in his thinking about pretty much everything.

He’s a legend, justifiably, and a decent fella, to boot.

[Humble Narcissist]

He was my inspiration for bodybuilding as well.

[joswift]

he was totally wrong when he said "you always have five more reps left in you"

If that was the case he would still be on his first set of squats.

[Humble Narcissist]

he was totally wrong when he said "you always have five more reps left in you"

If that was the case he would still be on his first set of squats.

  Yes, plus his crazy intensity ended up hurting him and prematurely ending his competitive career.

[Primemuscle]

I have made this point many times here. Moderation and abuse are extremely arbitrary terms. Use, don't abuse they say. Yeah okay, ask 10 guys where the line between the two is and you get 10 different answers.

Also this thing about "not having the drugs do it for you". Okay, but what if you can get drugs to do things for you with no effort on your part - is there anything wrong with that per se? Most have not thought this through IMO. It's like the idea of fairness in sport, the main reson drugs are banned. But if you think about it sports were never fair to begin with, different genetics, different opportunities wrt training and coaching and on and on, the playing field is never fair no matter what. In bodybuilding we would like to believe a persons physique is a reflection of their mental strength and will and time and effort they put into their craft, not genetics or drugs or what have you. But that's not reality.

Moderation isn't that hard to define when it isn't just a self-definition, but one confirmed by honest professioanls (doctors). Don't ask 10 guys who don't really know what they are talking about or have any real expertise. I have a high tolerance for alcohol. Does this mean if I have one drink an hour for 8 hours, I am drinking in moderation? Of course it doesn't. Likewise, if without a diagnosis of hypogonadism or low testosterone, I inject 250 mg of test cyp a week, that is a moderate dose? Most endocrinologists and general practitioners would agree that it isn't.

Sports may not be fair, but that doesn't mean the playing field should be a level as possible. If the only reason a person is on testosterone is to up their game, they aren't playing fair. It is debatable as to whether competitive bodybuilding is really a sport or just an indulgence. It serves no practical purpose. Likewise, as mentioned before, if the only reason someone is taking AAS or hormones is to win a contest in order to go home with a plastic trophy or even just to sport 8% bodyfat while being technically obese because of their weight....for example most 5'7" fellows who weigh 225 lbs and are ripped to the bone aren't just genetically gifted, they're on something. There is nothing moderate about this, even if it were all natural. Even if it is because the person is ingesting twice their weigh in grams of protein.

Moderation may be an arbitrary term, but logic and reason play a role in defining what is moderate and what is not as well.

[illuminati]

I have made some observations over time, tell me if you disagree with the following. To outsiders - guys who don't train - bodybuilders/juicers will always emphasize how drugs are only a small part of bodybuilding and get really incensed if these outsiders imply that their muscle is mostly due to drugs. However, when bodybuilders gossip about other bodybuilders, it's always how much is X taking, X is insane with his dosages, look at this guy, X is sweating like a pig from DNP, X is taking 2 grams of tren, I heard X is doing 30iu of pharma growth. The other day a guy I met for the first time in the gym asked me half-jokingly if I would help him win his first show. He was kinda insecure, didn't know if he was good enough to compete. I told him, and I was completely serious with this, is that the main thing for success is committing to competing - if there is any doubt as to wether they really want to compete it's better not to do it. At this point my friend who is a very good bb chimed in, "basically, if you really nail the stack you will do very well" 

So, bbers get really pissed when outsiders talk drugs but bbers themselves are no better, they will always think/talk about what successful bb X is doing as far as drugs. It's always been like this, as long as I've been involved, about 3 decades. Yes everyone with half a brain knows bb is mostly genetics but you can't do anything about that. You can however do more drugs or do different ones 

My point is, the drug emphasis comes from the within the sport itself, it's not just "idiots" who emphasize it. And it's not just the new generation, it's the old timers too. I mean if old timers are asked about today's generation, why they are bigger and more cut, they will always "blame" the drugs. They will not say that the new generation knows more about nutrition, are more strict with it, train harder with better plans, are more disciplined with more willpower,  and have more scientific methods. No it's just the drugs, nothing else. Is this envy or just being realistic?

I make very similar observations everyday I go to the gym.
Idiots will be idiots & talk stupid nonsense.

Do I believe pro’s take more nowadays because they are “bigger” ( Though remove the monstrous guts off of very many of them) & I don’t see many being that much bigger, Let alone better.
The different use of drugs, food, training & far more people being involved in the gyms all contribute.

There are those now who will be envious no different to when Ronnie,Dorian,Lee H, Arnold Etc were the
Best of their times. Was it more drugs for them also.

There are many great physiques around & are not solely created by “more” drugs
I don’t hear many serious old timers talk like that.
Sure some do & some are jealous.

[illuminati]

I agree with you, PEDs have their place. In my experience they can assist one in their bodybuilding and sports related goals as long as they are used in moderation. What is moderation? that may vary a little from one person to the next since people don't all have the same reaction. And the key is assist, not do it for you. Like you said genetics, training  and diet play a huge roll. So much so, some people do fine without PEDs.

I strongly recommend anyone considering PEDs consult with an expert. Knowledgeable folks aren't easy to find whether they are professionals, such as doctors or people with a great deal of experience and who are honest. It was my good fortune to have them prescribed by a legitimate doctor. But this was decades ago, and AAS like D-bol were legal and some doctors were educated in the use of PEDs. Although, I subsequently took D-bol after it became difficult to get, I followed my original very modest prescription of 5 mg a day. You'd be surprised at how much one can gain on that dose when combined with a solid workout regime and excellent eating habits.

Good post Prime
Yes there are so many variables to take into consideration for sure.
Also I’m well aware how much improvement could be made by very small dosages
In combination with training & food intake.

[Van_Bilderass]

Moderation isn't that hard to define when it isn't just a self-definition, but one confirmed by honest professioanls (doctors). Don't ask 10 guys who don't really know what they are talking about or have any real expertise. I have a high tolerance for alcohol. Does this mean if I have one drink an hour for 8 hours, I am drinking in moderation? Of course it doesn't. Likewise, if without a diagnosis of hypogonadism or low testosterone, I inject 250 mg of test cyp a week, that is a moderate dose? Most endocrinologists and general practitioners would agree that it isn't.

Well you know that Doctors have prescribed drugs in ways that later is deemed abusive. You had a Dbol script IIRC, The Coach here had a Dr prescribe him Dbol and Deca (or one or the other, I forget) when he was like 15 years old!
Doctors annihilated whole towns in the US with Oxycontin scripts.
Your testosterone script is still considered highly experimental and perhaps dangerous by much of Europe for example. Things are changing but the HRT business is still seen as unethical quackery here by many or most Doctors.
Doctors scripts were behind the whole of the Golden Age of early competitive bodybuilding.
"Medical need" is not cut and dry at all, it changes with the times.
Another example: there was this Dr Ferrari who was involved in doping professional cyclists. His defence when "busted" was that he was actually attending to cyclists medical needs, he was protecting their health when he supplied them with EPO, testosterone, GH and whatever else! EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice he said. The races were so brutal they had a real medical need for assistance so their bodies wouldn't break down. It was cycling itself that was abusive, not the drugs.
So you see how this line between use and abuse is very fluid even within the medical community.

So you are saying any use outside of the currently medically accepted indications is abuse, but new categories of indications will be added with time. Sometimes some practises will be withdrawn if new data emerges saying HRT for example is deemed to do more harm than good. Unlikely to happen though, as body image and "feeling good" and "quality of life" is so important in our society.

[ThisisOverload]

Another example: there was this Dr Ferrari who was involved in doping professional cyclists. His defence when "busted" was that he was actually attending to cyclists medical needs, he was protecting their health when he supplied them with EPO, testosterone, GH and whatever else! EPO was no more dangerous than orange juice he said. The races were so brutal they had a real medical need for assistance so their bodies wouldn't break down. It was cycling itself that was abusive, not the drugs.
So you see how this line between use and abuse is very fluid even within the medical community.

I watched the Lance Armstrong documentary and found that interesting as well.  Very interesting way of putting it.  That's one thing i have learned from having an Endocrinologist as a good friend.  In his words, "drug gurus are no different than a nutritionist".  I find this a little off, but i see where he is coming from.  If a person is going to compete at the highest level and make the choice to use PED's, they want to have the right advice.  Same reason bodybuilder's higher "coaches" to help them prepare for a contest.  You would think the individual would know their body the best at a professional level?

I find that people who have never used recreational drugs or PED's are the hardest people to discuss it with.  They are so against something that they aren't willing to be open minded, when in reality experimenting with certain things opens your eyes to a more diverse world.  Now there is a big difference between smoking a joint every now and then compared to shooting heroin all day long, of course.  But i find that people in the athletic community who have used PED's have a very open mind about competition.  Like you said, the lifters in the gym that juice and talk about it, are always labeling others as the high dose users, "he must be on a few grams" mentality.  The biggest/strongest guy in my gym is always labeled as the mega dose dude, it's been that way at every gym.

One of my dad's good friends is an engineering professor at Rice University in Houston, he's very highly educated and brilliant.  The guy drinks scotch and smokes weed every evening, gets pretty loaded up, but keeps his head in a good place.  I've been to his house on the weekends, he'll get ripped on some weed and talk about the most amazing things.  It's not just rambling, the guy is a genius IMO, what he says makes perfect sense.  He has developed structural engineering theories that are documented in the teachings of the university while blasted out of his mind.  Very interesting person.

I don't like to disagree with you, illuminati, Prime or anyone else, but i think 100% that the reason you see bodybuilders change from 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's is due to drugs and understanding how to use them.  Sure people train smarter today and nutrition is improving, but the changes in drugs and advancement in the knowledge of how to use GH/slin is making a difference IMO.

[Van_Bilderass]

I find that people who have never used recreational drugs or PED's are the hardest people to discuss it with.  They are so against something that they aren't willing to be open minded, when in reality experimenting with certain things opens your eyes to a more diverse world. 

Absolutely. When I started training 3 decades ago the anti-steroid propaganda was crazy, after Ben Johnson was busted, and most people bought it. Steroids would make you a murderer and make you keel over within weeks. One friend's parents found a gym bag full of steroids under his bed wwhen he was like 17. The guy told his parents that he was only holding the bag for a friend and I suppose they believed him, or wanted to believe. The parents told him that if they ever learned that he had taken steroids they would disown him. That's how terrible steroids were, they no doubt influenced by the crazy proganda in the media. The guy is still using steroids almost 30 years later, but the parents suspect nothing These anti-drug hysterics are the same type who would call the cops on a family member if they suspected they had smoked a joint. Of course alcohol was totally fine, there must be a good reason why it was legal as opposed to weed. My aunts once called the cops on my uncle, the black sheep of the family, when they found a piece of hashish among his possessions - of course those aunts had no experience with cannabis not seen the effects of its use, all they knew was that it was absolutely ruinous and was worth causing big legal problems for a family member, they would save him by this action
Today steroid use is everywhere and much more accepted. Same with weed, now with legalization we see even successful people use, including presidents and the most successful business people, though some of the older generations are still alive and stuck in their indoctrination

This is if course not to say there are no potential problems with PEDs or recs.
The main risk with both is legal problems. Those will fuck you up.