Author Topic: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15  (Read 7978 times)

Marty Champions

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2020, 10:14:33 AM »
Falcon won the gh15 natty Olympia 2007
A

King Shizzo

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2020, 10:15:00 AM »




gh15 asked you to mod his forum? I'm not saying he didn't but that sounds nuts.
Vince likes nuts. Match made in Heaven.

Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2020, 10:49:32 AM »
LOL c'mon  :D

Jesus Christ, Massive G?  :'(

gh15 asked you to mod his forum? I'm not saying he didn't but that sounds nuts.
I know you say you did steroids and sold them but it's BS, you don't know anything about them. There are actually reverese-liars when it comes to roids, those who claim to have done thrm but never really did, and you are one.


I only cared about the financial side of selling steroids...I had enough knowledge to make them but that would be on par with a dealer making crack cocaine.   I didn't make or sell them for too long because prohormones were more profitable and legal.  From then I only make some for previous buyers and that didn't last long

I used them for a few years but my body reacted quite hostile to it....lot of side effects.  But the gh15 board was good for hawking my Kynoselen and Hemoplex as long as I endosed his GH bolen wares.  If Sev was still around, he could vouch for me.  But in any event, I declined it as I was wanting to start my own forum.   

The board is still around but I consider it to be inactive as I don't think the gh15 account is the same person who was the originator of it.   Its pretty much a gay parade afterparty at this point   




A

a_pupil

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2020, 12:47:40 PM »
I posted on GH15's board and was going to mod it before it was shut down but there's no way to confirm who it was.   If I had to take a guess, I would say it was Massive G who was a mod from the old Muscle Mayhem forum.

We're talking about massive G the permabulking doggcrapp follower right? He was one of the thimble of test and 1 shot of deca a month promotors lol, so I doubt it was him.

I remember he made a post one time critiquing the new generation, saying back in the day when we use to talk about bumping up the dose it was in 25 mg increments  :P

King Shizzo

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2020, 12:51:29 PM »
We're talking about massive G the permabulking doggcrapp follower right? He was one of the thimble of test and 1 shot of deca a month promotors lol, so I doubt it was him.

I remember he made a post one time critiquing the new generation, saying back in the day when we use to talk about bumping up the dose it was in 25 mg increments  :P
Sounds like the script of a new Disney Movie.

Dave D

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2020, 01:11:48 PM »
LOL c'mon  :D

Jesus Christ, Massive G?  :'(

gh15 asked you to mod his forum? I'm not saying he didn't but that sounds nuts.
I know you say you did steroids and sold them but it's BS, you don't know anything about them. There are actually reverese-liars when it comes to roids, those who claim to have done thrm but never really did, and you are one.

Massive G was not GH15.  Vince wasn’t going to be a mod.

Mr. Goodrum is trolling.

a_pupil

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2020, 01:15:15 PM »
Massive G was not GH15.  Vince wasn’t going to be a mod.

Mr. Goodrum is trolling.

It makes sense to me. GH15 probably wanted access to Calibre Fitness's worldwide infrastructure to move his gear.

King Shizzo

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2020, 01:17:55 PM »
It makes sense to me. GH15 probably wanted access to Calibre Fitness's worldwide infrastructure to move his gear.
Now that is funny.


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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2020, 01:59:31 PM »
Massive G was not GH15.  Vince wasn’t going to be a mod.

Mr. Goodrum is trolling.

Of course.

He didn't sell any steroids nor prohormones either. Some people are desperate to build some type of fake persona on the internet, pretty sad

It's possible Vince thinks it might have been "Massive G" or whoever but that's only because he doesn't know anything about that world from personal experience. Same with affeman and the Mike Morris guess.

ESFitness

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2020, 03:54:05 PM »

I only cared about the financial side of selling steroids...I had enough knowledge to make them but that would be on par with a dealer making crack cocaine.   I didn't make or sell them for too long because prohormones were more profitable and legal.  From then I only make some for previous buyers and that didn't last long

I used them for a few years but my body reacted quite hostile to it....lot of side effects.  But the gh15 board was good for hawking my Kynoselen and Hemoplex as long as I endosed his GH bolen wares.  If Sev was still around, he could vouch for me.  But in any event, I declined it as I was wanting to start my own forum.   

The board is still around but I consider it to be inactive as I don't think the gh15 account is the same person who was the originator of it.   Its pretty much a gay parade afterparty at this point   

"prohormones were more profitable' bwahahhaaha


Matt

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2020, 04:36:07 PM »
My respect for Chad dropped when I watched his interview on Valuetainment, along with Shawn Ray's interview.  It's obvious to me that all he did - and all that the "bodybuilding diet guru" industry really is - is approach some of the up-and-coming bodybuilders with huge potential, offer to assist them, and when they succeeded in bodybuilding [primarily due to superior genetics], use that success to attract other genetically elite bodybuilders, and then let things organically grow from there.  Not to say that diet coaches don't have knowledge, but it isn't rocket science.

Specifically, the reason why I lost respect for Chad is because of small details he was getting wrong.  I think he pronounced Kevin Levrone's last name wrong, stated the wrong year for the time he met Shawn Ray, and - the worst one, IMO - not know that the kidney disease that Flex Wheeler had, FSGS, stood for "focal segmental glomerulosclerosis".

I would think MAYBE if you are being accused of making your clients seriously ill or even DIE, that it might show you actually care about that by KNOWING THE NAME OF THE DISEASE YOU ARE BEING ACCUSED OF CAUSING.

Contrast that with Shawn - everything he said that could be objectively verified as either true or false, was true.

The impression I got from Chad is that he either has a horrible memory [which is some indication of low intelligence], or that he is just not a detail-oriented nor diligent person.  And lack of diligence would suggest his coaching may have caused client issues he has been accused of causing.

You would think that even working with a man in his late forties like Don Youngblood is something that he would only do under the most careful of terms, to the point of even insisting on discussing it with family.  I get that Don was a grown adult, but he was taking a big risk - given the man died of a massive heart attack at age 51, while bulking up for the 2006 New York Pro - and while the libertarian in me knows this isn't an obligation, I think an ethical person would be crystal clear about disclosing the health risks.

Although you can't just blame Chad, given Don died at 300-lb, while bulking up despite having recently gone through angioplasty.  ::)

But nothing leads me to believe Chad cautions his clients about health.  It's as if the serious illnesses and even the deaths of some of his clients have given him zero pause.  Ronnie Coleman sitting in an ice bath the night before the 2001 Mr. Olympia because he was overheating when he should have been brought to the hospital is an example of this.

In fact, if anyone has a copy of the 2000 Battle for the Olympia, there is a part where Chad is in the hotel room with Ronnie and he is explaining that if Ronnie feels like he is overheating, to put a wet towel over his neck.  WTF?  ???  A comment like that is all the evidence I need that Chad has given his clients cutting agents to a point that he knew would lead to potential life-threatening outcomes.

What bodybuilding diet coach tells a client "Since you followed the program I gave you, there is a chance you might start overheating to a point requiring intervention - but don't worry about going to the hospital, just put a cold towel over your neck"?

In the UFC, they have actual doctors for such risks, and Chad is not a doctor.

I was never one to blame coaches for the illnesses or deaths or bodybuilders, but Chad said absolutely nothing to suggest to me he was even remotely concerned about the risks his clients were taking.  And getting detail after detail wrong [compared to Shawn Ray, who got everything he said right] just gave me the impression that Chad doesn't even care.

Again, the man doesn't even know the name of the kidney disease he is being accused of causing Flex Wheeler.  That's the moment I said to myself "This guy doesn't even care."

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2020, 04:38:45 PM »
My respect for Chad dropped when I watched his interview on Valuetainment, along with Shawn Ray's interview.  It's obvious to me that all he did - and all that the "bodybuilding diet guru" industry really is - is approach some of the up-and-coming bodybuilders with huge potential, offer to assist them, and when they succeeded in bodybuilding [primarily due to superior genetics], use that success to attract other genetically elite bodybuilders, and then let everything sort of organically grow from there.  Not to say that bodybuilding diet coaches don't have actual knowledge on bodybuilding, but it isn't rocket science, and - as with so many other things - perception matters more than reality.

Specifically, the reason why I lost respect for Chad is because of small details he was getting wrong.  I would have to re-watch it, but I think he pronounced Kevin Levrone's name wrong, stated the wrong year for the time he met Shawn Ray, and - the worst one, IMO - was not know that the kidney disease that Flex Wheeler had, FSGS, stood for focal segmental glomerulosclerosis.

I would think that MAYBE if you are being accused of making your clients seriously ill or even DIE, that it might show you actually care about that by KNOWING THE NAME OF THE DISEASE YOU ARE BEING ACCUSED OF CAUSING.

Contrast that with Shawn - everything he said that could be objectively verified as either true or false, was true.

All in all, the impression I got from Chad is that he either has a horrible memory [which is some indication of low intelligence], or that he is just not a very detail-oriented or diligent person.  And lack of diligence is exactly the type of quality that would suggest his coaching may well have caused the illness or even the deaths of some of his clients.

You would think that even working with a man in his late forties like Don Youngblood is something that he would only do under the most careful of terms, to the point of not even doing it without disclosing the details with his wife or family.  I get that Don was a grown adult, and as a person with a strong internal locus of control, I don't blame other people for my bad decisions, but clearly there was a risk to what Don was doing - given the man died of a massive heart attack at age 51, while bulking up for the New York Pro the following year - and while the libertarian in me knows this isn't an obligation, I think an ethical person would be absolutely certain to go over the health risks with each client.

And there is nothing whatsoever that leads me to believe Chad does anything remotely close to that.  It's as if the serious illness and even the deaths of some of his clients has given him zero pause.  Just the fact that Ronnie Coleman had to sit in an ice bath the night before the 2001 Mr. Olympia because he was overheating when he should have probably gone to the hospital is an example of this.

In fact, if anyone has a copy of the 2000 Battle for the Olympia [it MAY have been 2001, but I think 2000], there is a part where Chad is in the hotel room with Ronnie and he is explaining to Ronnie that if he feels like he is overheating, to put a wet towel over his neck.  WTF?  ???  A comment like that is all the evidence I need that Chad has given his clients cutting agents and diuretics to a point that he knew would lead to potential life-threatening outcomes.

What bodybuilding diet coach tells a client "Since you followed the program I gave you, there is a chance you might start overheating, and will need to be cooled down - but don't worry about going to the hospital, just put a cold towel over your neck."

In the UFC, they have actual doctors present for matters like this, and Chad is not a doctor.

I was never one to blame the coach's for the illnesses or deaths or bodybuilders, but Chad said absolutely nothing to suggest to me he was even remotely concerned about the risks his clients were taking.  And getting detail after detail wrong [compared to Shawn Ray, he got everything he said right] just gave me the impression that Chad doesn't even care.

Again, the man doesn't even know the name of the kidney disease he is being accused of causing Flex Wheeler.  That's the moment I said to myself "This guy doesn't even care."
I've read books that were shorter, and didn't make me fall to sleep.

Matt

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2020, 04:59:32 PM »
I've read books that were shorter, and didn't make me fall to sleep.

Are you that Ironage Getbigger with hair of locks of gold who stood at 5'10" in height at 250-lb of mass?  Alex23?

I'm coming up with a series of rules regarding post length.  Here is one:

Any posts regarding serious illness or death, or scams surrounding either, can be long.  Examples would be posts on COVID, given the entire global economy will collapse if we stay on the current path to deal with it, or posts involving "bodybuilding gurus" who load up their Mr. Olympia level clients with so many mercurial diuretics or cutting drugs that they are forced to sit in an ice bath alongside the ghost of Curtis Leffler.

This is serious stuff.  I think they merit long posts.

I'll try to keep other posts, such as a list of my prediction for the top six at the Olympia, to under 10,000 words.

Taffin

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2020, 05:58:07 PM »
Are you that Ironage Getbigger with hair of locks of gold who stood at 5'10" in height at 250-lb of mass?  Alex23?

I'm coming up with a series of rules regarding post length.  Here is one:

Any posts regarding serious illness or death, or scams surrounding either, can be long.  Examples would be posts on COVID, given the entire global economy will collapse if we stay on the current path to deal with it, or posts involving "bodybuilding gurus" who load up their Mr. Olympia level clients with so many mercurial diuretics or cutting drugs that they are forced to sit in an ice bath alongside the ghost of Curtis Leffler.

This is serious stuff.  I think they merit long posts.

I'll try to keep other posts, such as a list of my prediction for the top six at the Olympia, to under 10,000 words.


 ;D at this reference
T

ChristopherA

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2020, 07:41:01 PM »
I've read books that were shorter, and didn't make me fall to sleep.
It's every post of his. As soon as you see his name it's like how many paragraphs this time? Fucking autistic spaz

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2020, 08:01:40 PM »

Specifically, the reason why I lost respect for Chad is because of small details he was getting wrong.  I think he pronounced Kevin Levrone's last name wrong, stated the wrong year for the time he met Shawn Ray, and - the worst one, IMO - not know that the kidney disease that Flex Wheeler had, FSGS, stood for "focal segmental glomerulosclerosis".

I would think MAYBE if you are being accused of making your clients seriously ill or even DIE, that it might show you actually care about that by KNOWING THE NAME OF THE DISEASE YOU ARE BEING ACCUSED OF CAUSING.



IIRC, the FSGS was also talked about as being "genetic". It was not really genetic, it has been described as a result of anabolic steroid use in the literature. All these bodybuilders do not have FSGS that has nothing to do with drugs.

Him and other gurus talk about "getting blood work" done but they haven't a clue on how to interpret it. Them playing doctor is ridiculous.

In his valuetainment interview he was asked about his opinion on specific anabolics and he didn't like any of them LOL. An absolute joke, knowing he prescribes all of them to his athletes. He said he doesn't like Deca because it has so many sides and you needed do many other things to counter the sides, which is joke when you know what he prescribes to athletes to help them eat, and here's something that may interest those who like details about specific drugs...

... the drug he likes for increasing food intake is MEGACE, claims Ronnie and others were on it. The joke is in the fact that he claims he doesn't like Deca but prescribes this drug. The sides of Deca are thought to be from progestagenic effects (whether true or not, but bbers use dopaminergics to reduce progestagenic/prolactin sides from Deca). What is Megace? It's progesterone! It's used as a HIV+ wasting appetite stimulant. Look up the sides of this mofo and consider if Deca is worse lol.

I have no problems with a Kamikaze attitude per se, if you acknowledge this is what it is, and don't point at other gurus as being reckless.

Matt

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2020, 08:20:34 PM »

 ;D at this reference

 ;D

I knew there would be some on here who got that.  Sadly, I think the same year that Curtis Leffler died of a heart attack, he had to previously sit in an ice bath for something like three days, for his body to cool down, due to whatever cutting agent he used at the time.  I can't recall if it was LASIX, or DNP [2,4-Dinitrophenol], or if it wasn't specified [pellius might know, since Leffler was also from Hawaii].

Can you imagine the anxiety of having to sit in an ice bath for days to cool your body down, knowing there is no guarantee you will survive, and no other way to clear your body of the drug?  In that sense, I guess it made sense for Ronnie to sit in an ice bath as well...that IS what they would have had him do at a hospital.  But the thing is, Chad Nicholls is not a doctor, and that is the ethical issue I have with that whole incident.  Ronnie is still here today, but ultimately, Curtis Leffler died at age 36 because of that, leaving behind a young son.  Sad stuff.

Matt

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2020, 08:39:29 PM »
It's every post of his. As soon as you see his name it's like how many paragraphs this time? Fucking autistic spaz

My posts contain relevant information to the thread topics; if there is a thread about the COVID vaccine, and I write a post about the vaccine, such as the rushed nature of its production, the unavailability of long-term health data, the lack of peer-review, or the legal indemnity of Pfizer, this material will be of interest to people interested in the topic.

If the thread topic itself interests you, and I post a long reply, you can read all, most, some, or none of it - literally just skipping over it completely, which is next to no work on your part.

My concerns while posting on a publicly-shared forum are [1] to exercise caution while posting OP's [no reposts, and being worthy of a new thread], [2] staying on-topic, [3] not derailing threads, and [4] not personally attacking others, their wives or family, or engaging in that sort of negative behaviour [basically, showing respect and rapport to my fellow Getbiggers].  Post length is a concern, but not as important as the ones I listed.  Ultimately, if you don't like my posts...just skip over them.  I tend to only post one post at a time, unless I am being addressed [quoted].  So is it really that much of a big deal to scroll over my posts?

Matt

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2020, 09:13:51 PM »
IIRC, the FSGS was also talked about as being "genetic". It was not really genetic, it has been described as a result of anabolic steroid use in the literature. All these bodybuilders do not have FSGS that has nothing to do with drugs.

Him and other gurus talk about "getting blood work" done but they haven't a clue on how to interpret it. Them playing doctor is ridiculous.

In his valuetainment interview he was asked about his opinion on specific anabolics and he didn't like any of them LOL. An absolute joke, knowing he prescribes all of them to his athletes. He said he doesn't like Deca because it has so many sides and you needed do many other things to counter the sides, which is joke when you know what he prescribes to athletes to help them eat, and here's something that may interest those who like details about specific drugs...

... the drug he likes for increasing food intake is MEGACE, claims Ronnie and others were on it. The joke is in the fact that he claims he doesn't like Deca but prescribes this drug. The sides of Deca are thought to be from progestagenic effects (whether true or not, but bbers use dopaminergics to reduce progestagenic/prolactin sides from Deca). What is Megace? It's progesterone! It's used as a HIV+ wasting appetite stimulant. Look up the sides of this mofo and consider if Deca is worse lol.

I have no problems with a Kamikaze attitude per se, if you acknowledge this is what it is, and don't point at other gurus as being reckless.

Oh man, I have so much to say here...LOL [great post, BTW]:

Yes, FSGS was thought to be genetic, but more recently, it has been postulated that FSGS mimics characteristics of a genetic disease.  On Getbig, we poke fun of how many bodybuilders end up with "genetic" kidney issues, and presumably some doctors either noticed bodybuilders say that, or read Getbig.  ;D  In any case, some research speculates that FSGS is caused by long-term use of PED's [not sure which - but PED's], but manifests in such a way that it appears to be genetic.  That would actually account for why so many bodybuilders have "genetic" kidney issues compared to the general population.

Regarding bloodwork, in an issue of MD, George Farah said when he started to work with Kai Greene that he asked him to get bloodwork done, but was "not satisfied" with Kai's results, and asked him to make whatever changes until the results came back in whatever way "satisfied" Farah, and allowed Kai to be accepted as a client.  While I respect that Farah encourages his charges to get bloodwork, exactly what would he be looking for, aside from everything being in the optimal range?  As you said, they are bodybuilding gurus, not doctors.

MEGACE: LOL...oh man...I know a strongman who said every time he took it, he would be sick for [I can't remember...three days of straight nausea maybe?  Does that sound right?], but would gain 30-lb.

The funny thing about MEGACE to me is where you would actually obtain this drug?  Presumably, it would have limited prescription numbers, so do bodybuilders need to network with actual AIDS patients in order to get a hold of it?  Or are there Chinese or Pakistani chemists producing black market versions?  I've always wondered about that, but I guess that with high level bodybuilding comes high level networking for PED's and accessories.

As to your last point - I feel the same way.  I guess the problem is, both gurus and bodybuilders are all forced to live a lie because of PED legal status.  This forces bodybuilders to lie, and gurus to basically do the same.  I can tolerate that somewhat - saying nothing is one thing.  But when bodybuilders go out of their way to claim natural status, or downplay gear...that's when it gets annoying.  Or the example you gave, of how Chad will play up the side effects of Deca, while "prescribing" [LMAO...but what other word can we use here?] his clients MEGACE, or mercurial diuretics, as he did during the Ironage.

HAHAHA @ Chad's "safe bodybuilding guru" logic.  :D

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2020, 11:05:03 PM »
It's very "normal" for HIV/AIDS patients to sell their prescription drugs to buy illicit drugs instead. And the MECCA of bodybuilding is how far from Skid Row?

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2020, 11:23:04 PM »
It's very "normal" for HIV/AIDS patients to sell their prescription drugs to buy illicit drugs instead. And the MECCA of bodybuilding is how far from Skid Row?

Heard Chris Cormier acquired his GH that way in the late 90's/early 00's.

Bevo

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2020, 12:18:42 AM »
Heard Chris Cormier acquired his GH that way in the late 90's/early 00's.

I heard he did some gay4pay to finance his GH and lifestyle, rumor has it chris swings both ways

AbrahamG

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2020, 12:30:23 AM »
I heard he did some gay4pay to finance his GH and lifestyle, rumor has it chris swings both ways

Both could be true.  If you're gay, more power to you.  I just cannot imagine letting somebody make a liquid explosion in my mouth for plowing my shitbox for a couple bucks.  Unless I was gay. 

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2020, 12:35:07 AM »


Regarding bloodwork, in an issue of MD, George Farah said when he started to work with Kai Greene that he asked him to get bloodwork done, but was "not satisfied" with Kai's results, and asked him to make whatever changes until the results came back in whatever way "satisfied" Farah, and allowed Kai to be accepted as a client.  While I respect that Farah encourages his charges to get bloodwork, exactly what would he be looking for, aside from everything being in the optimal range?  As you said, they are bodybuilding gurus, not doctors.



Farah is an absolute joke, he seems to think he's a doctor pretty much. Supposedly he's married to an MD and hospital director of some sort. If anyone knows if this is factual, let me know. Can't trust anything these guys say.

Anyway, if you watch Farah's videos here's what he says:

Lots of steroids are bad.
Insulin: bad, stay away
GH: bad
High IGF-1 bad (even as a result of dairy)
High protein: bad
Meat: bad, eat seeds and grains instead
Sugar: killer, causes cancer
Bodybuilding: unimportant, lots of other things are more important

But do his athletes follow this advice? Of course not, so what's the purpose with all this, who is it aimed at? Why does he still coach bodybuilders then?

Other industry insiders have said George is well known for his trenbolone brews.

This other pro coach, Bleu Taylor, told the story of how he was secretly prepping some guy who George Farah thought he was prepping. Farah gives the guy a Lasix at a show but Bleu says to throw it in the trash. Farah thinks the guy took the Lasix and says, "see, this is how good you look when your coach knows what he's doing".

Lol.

BB

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Re: Chad Nichols discusses Getbig and the identity of GH15
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2020, 12:39:38 AM »
;D

I knew there would be some on here who got that.  Sadly, I think the same year that Curtis Leffler died of a heart attack, he had to previously sit in an ice bath for something like three days, for his body to cool down, due to whatever cutting agent he used at the time.  I can't recall if it was LASIX, or DNP [2,4-Dinitrophenol], or if it wasn't specified [pellius might know, since Leffler was also from Hawaii].


It was DNP. That was the standard non-hospital cure for DNP in the 90's. Have ice handy and extra sheets were two of the rules when playing with DNP back then.