Nick's Finishing Touches

[ThisisOverload]

Genetics are one thing, but the "ability" to withstand grams of gear on a weekly basis is part of that.

We have guys walking around at a lean 270 pounds. That's a lot of AAS, GH and slin.

People can claim genetics all day long, but the fact remains that if you look at the guys from the 70's and 80's compared to the last 10 years. It's not genetics that changed, it's the drugs and knowledge of how to use them.

[bhank]

Genetics are one thing, but the "ability" to withstand grams of gear on a weekly basis is part of that.

We have guys walking around at a lean 270 pounds. That's a lot of AAS, GH and slin.

People can claim genetics all day long, but the fact remains that if you look at the guys from the 70's and 80's compared to the last 10 years. It's not genetics that changed, it's the drugs and knowledge of how to use them.

The guys in the 60s and 70s didn't train year round for as many years nutrition is what has changed the most everyone is still using the same amount of stuff

[The Scott]

The guys in the 60s and 70s didn't train year round for as many years nutrition is what has changed the most everyone is still using the same amount of stuff

You're just trying to make me feel better by pretending to be this FUCKING STOOOOOOOOOOPID.

Right?

[ThisisOverload]

The guys in the 60s and 70s didn't train year round for as many years nutrition is what has changed the most everyone is still using the same amount of stuff

You're retarded if you believe that.

Food has not changed at all. Just more supplements which are primarily snake oil.

You think eating grass fed beef (rinsed of course) is what adds 40 pounds of lean muscle to these guys?

[MCWAY]

You're retarded if you believe that.

Food has not changed at all. Just more supplements which are primarily snake oil.

You think eating grass fed beef (rinsed of course) is what adds 40 pounds of lean muscle to these guys?

Food? No. What about the amount of food? Were guys pushing 10,000 calories a day during Arnold's time?

I remember when John Parillo was talking about eating up to 10,000 calories per day. He predicted one day that bodybuilders would compete at 300 lbs ripped. People thought he was nuts.

Next thing you know, we get Lou Ferrigno at 316 lbs at the 1993 Olympia. Then came Gunter Schlierkamp at 300, not super ripped but in decent contest shape.

Big Lou claimed he was eating way more food (particularly carbs) than he did during the "Pumping Iron" era. He said he had to look like a bodybuilder of the 90s, not the 70s.

Even Dexter Jackson said that he had to jack up his calories to put on the size needed to keep up with the young bucks. He also had to finally do cardio.

You can only ingest anabolics to a certain point, before it does more harm than good.

[ThisisOverload]

Food? No. What about the amount of food? Were guys pushing 10,000 calories a day during Arnold's time?

I remember when John Parillo was talking about eating up to 10,000 calories per day. He predicted one day that bodybuilders would compete at 300 lbs ripped. People thought he was nuts.

Next thing you know, we get Lou Ferrigno at 316 lbs at the 1993 Olympia. Then came Gunter Schlierkamp at 300, not super ripped but in decent contest shape.

Big Lou claimed he was eating way more food (particularly carbs) than he did during the "Pumping Iron" era. He said he had to look like a bodybuilder of the 90s, not the 70s.

Even Dexter Jackson said that he had to jack up his calories to put on the size needed to keep up with the young bucks. He also had to finally do cardio.

You can only ingest anabolics to a certain point, before it does more harm than good.

You can't get that big off just food. You need a lot of anabolics.

They all say it's food and supplements (they are endorsed) that gains them size because saying it's insulin, gh, peptides, sarms and AAS makes them look bad.

I can tell you from many years of working with bodybuilders personally that it's drugs>food.

You want to gain 20 pounds you have to up the dosage, period.

In the 70's they relied on anabolics, they didn't have 20 different compounds to use including the above, large test and tren doses.

I gained 20 pounds just adding insulin/gh in 4 months. Same diet.

I've pushed the limits of AAS use and food, it's the drugs that make the difference.

[MCWAY]

You can't get that big off just food. You need a lot of anabolics.

They all say it's food and supplements (they are endorsed) that gains them size because saying it's insulin, gh, peptides, sarms and AAS makes them look bad.

I can tell you from many years of working with bodybuilders personally that it's drugs>food.

You want to gain 20 pounds you have to up the dosage, period.

In the 70's they relied on anabolics, they didn't have 20 different compounds to use including the above, large test and tren doses.

I gained 20 pounds just adding insulin/gh in 4 months. Same diet.

I've pushed the limits of AAS use and food, it's the drugs that make the difference.

Yet, we keep hearing all these stories of guys upping the dosage but not getting anywhere near the size of many of these pro bodybuilders.

I never said it was just food alone. But, ignoring that factor and just putting all on drugs makes no sense. At some point, increased usage does more harm than good.

20 lbs in four months? That sounds like first-time gains to me. Heck, the first time I loaded with creatine, I put on 12 lbs in 2^1/2weeks. Suffice it to say, I've never replicated those results with subsequent use, since then.

The guys from Arnold's day weren't eating the mega-calories that today's pros (or those from the early 2000s) were.

Take Dexter Jackson. Are we to believe the he just kept "upping the dosage", yet managed to compete for over two decades, relatively scott free? Shouldn't Dex be in the ground right now? He would have had to "up the dosage" to turn pro, "up the dosage" to be Mr. Olympia 10 years later, then "up the dosage" to keep up with guys much younger than he is, for the next decade plus.

[pellius]

I only know what I have witnessed from an empirical standpoint.  My friends and training partners in the 70s and early to mid 80s along with several 70s era champions from the original Gold's. Off drugs they were normal to a bit above average.   We all knew this was going to happen and they had no problem because they said they did NOT want to abuse their bodies because no one really knew what too much was or what too much would do.  Do you recall when Robbie Robinson first tried to remain "in contest shape" year 'round?

Supposed congenital heart problems, that's what happened.

And Dr. Walczak was a schmoe of the first order.  No...He never came on to me as he knew better or so my friends told me.  But a few of my friends, one in particular, were offered training time in Palm Springs and assistance with their supplementation.  Yuck!

I have no doubt that drugs work.  Do they work better on some than others?  Sure.  But the mere fact that they work as well as they do on "woMEN" shows me that it ain't "genetics".  Be well, brother!

Scott, you are not saying anything new. Of course, when someone goes off drugs he will lose muscle mass. If he stops weight training he will lose muscle mass. If he stops eating he will lose muscle mass. But like prowler you contradict yourself. You concede that they work better on some than on others. Why? The fact that different people will get different responses to the same stimulus should show you that it IS genetics. If not, then explain to me why one progresses differently under the same protocol.

Yes, Walczak was a schome. He was a homosexual. I'm sure a lot of doctors are gay. But he also was an accomplished physician and helped many bodybuilders become champs. He even felt that he could get our own Vince Basile into the top tier. I wouldn't doubt it. Vince had good bodybuilding genetics.

[pellius]

Why was this guy hospitalized? If you get seriously ill, you'll drop weight quickly (thanks to cortisol). I caught the flu and was down for a week. I dropped 10 pounds and when I returned to the gym, I struggled with weights I could normally handle only a few weeks earlier.

Were those guys still training and eating? One of the reasons guys drop so much weight when off the anabolics is because they stop doing everything else as well. No mega-calorie eating, no hanging-and-banging in the gym, nada.

Exactly! Everybody seems to discount the fact that a lot of guys when they retire just stop weight training altogether and certainly don't eat like they use to do.

[pellius]

Genetics are one thing, but the "ability" to withstand grams of gear on a weekly basis is part of that.

We have guys walking around at a lean 270 pounds. That's a lot of AAS, GH and slin.

People can claim genetics all day long, but the fact remains that if you look at the guys from the 70's and 80's compared to the last 10 years. It's not genetics that changed, it's the drugs and knowledge of how to use them.

Again, a very simple concept seems to escape you. Being able to tolerate and withstand tons of gear for long periods of time is also a genetic trait. Ronnie alluded to this in one of his interviews.

Comparing guys from the 80s to now is a non sequitur. Yes, bodybuilders today have many things available to them that they didn't have before. Better equipment, better knowledge, and information, the drugs are the same but more is used and better understood. If Arnold were in his prime today and having access to what they have today he would have vastly improved his muscle size.

Saying that protocols have changed still does not discount one's genetic response to that change in protocol.

Take yourself as an example. Do you really think you could get to pro size just by taking enough drugs? You're a bodybuilder training for years. You are busting your ass trying to build my muscle. My guess is that you haven't changed much in years and just don't have the genetics to respond to training, food, and drugs like a Ramy can.

[pellius]

Food? No. What about the amount of food? Were guys pushing 10,000 calories a day during Arnold's time?

I remember when John Parillo was talking about eating up to 10,000 calories per day. He predicted one day that bodybuilders would compete at 300 lbs ripped. People thought he was nuts.

Next thing you know, we get Lou Ferrigno at 316 lbs at the 1993 Olympia. Then came Gunter Schlierkamp at 300, not super ripped but in decent contest shape.

Big Lou claimed he was eating way more food (particularly carbs) than he did during the "Pumping Iron" era. He said he had to look like a bodybuilder of the 90s, not the 70s.

Even Dexter Jackson said that he had to jack up his calories to put on the size needed to keep up with the young bucks. He also had to finally do cardio.

You can only ingest anabolics to a certain point, before it does more harm than good.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Spot on!

[pellius]

You can't get that big off just food. You need a lot of anabolics.

They all say it's food and supplements (they are endorsed) that gains them size because saying it's insulin, gh, peptides, sarms and AAS makes them look bad.

I can tell you from many years of working with bodybuilders personally that it's drugs>food.

You want to gain 20 pounds you have to up the dosage, period.

In the 70's they relied on anabolics, they didn't have 20 different compounds to use including the above, large test and tren doses.

I gained 20 pounds just adding insulin/gh in 4 months. Same diet.

I've pushed the limits of AAS use and food, it's the drugs that make the difference.

Wow Overload! I've always considered you a pretty knowledgeable guy and shocked at the sheer nonsense of this post. Drugs over food to get big.
Say you get two identical clones maintaining a consistent weight at 2,500 calories a day training the exact same way. One clone takes 2 grams of gear a day but maintains his current caloric and macro nutrient ratio at 2,500 calories per day. The second clone remains natural, still trains, but increases his caloric intake by 1,500 calories. After three months who is bigger?

Working with bodybuilders? What does that mean? You do know that many increase their drug intake yet lose weight and lose muscle when prepping for a show?

The 20 pounds you gained was a lot of water weight. Your diet didn't remain the same. You can't build something out of nothing.

[pellius]

Yet, we keep hearing all these stories of guys upping the dosage but not getting anywhere near the size of many of these pro bodybuilders.

I never said it was just food alone. But, ignoring that factor and just putting all on drugs makes no sense. At some point, increased usage does more harm than good.

20 lbs in four months? That sounds like first-time gains to me. Heck, the first time I loaded with creatine, I put on 12 lbs in 2^1/2weeks. Suffice it to say, I've never replicated those results with subsequent use, since then.

The guys from Arnold's day weren't eating the mega-calories that today's pros (or those from the early 2000s) were.

Take Dexter Jackson. Are we to believe the he just kept "upping the dosage", yet managed to compete for over two decades, relatively scott free? Shouldn't Dex be in the ground right now? He would have had to "up the dosage" to turn pro, "up the dosage" to be Mr. Olympia 10 years later, then "up the dosage" to keep up with guys much younger than he is, for the next decade plus.

It's always refreshing to read someone using logic and reason, as well as good old common sense, when making an argument.

[affeman]

Kid starts getting that Ronnie Coleman look, with sides of beef just hangin' from his body. I see a very bright future for him (Top 3)

[Body-Buildah]

Bhank, every time you speak, you weaken the nation. You know nothing about the history of anabolics it seems.

[Bevo]

Yet, we keep hearing all these stories of guys upping the dosage but not getting anywhere near the size of many of these pro bodybuilders.

I never said it was just food alone. But, ignoring that factor and just putting all on drugs makes no sense. At some point, increased usage does more harm than good.

20 lbs in four months? That sounds like first-time gains to me. Heck, the first time I loaded with creatine, I put on 12 lbs in 2^1/2weeks. Suffice it to say, I've never replicated those results with subsequent use, since then.

The guys from Arnold's day weren't eating the mega-calories that today's pros (or those from the early 2000s) were.

Take Dexter Jackson. Are we to believe the he just kept "upping the dosage", yet managed to compete for over two decades, relatively scott free? Shouldn't Dex be in the ground right now? He would have had to "up the dosage" to turn pro, "up the dosage" to be Mr. Olympia 10 years later, then "up the dosage" to keep up with guys much younger than he is, for the next decade plus.

Dexter started out as a bantamweight, he’s a very small man, 5’6, naturally just tiny, he went as high as 250’s in the off season, ask coach, he got very big in the off season during his last few years of competing

He has competed in the 230’s, he said so himself, that’s 100 pounds more than when he first stepped on stage, shredded too. That’s A LOT of weight to gain on a 5’6 structure

I would reckon he gradually upped the dosages since he was a bantamweight, but played it “smart”

[Bevo]

Wow Overload! I've always considered you a pretty knowledgeable guy and shocked at the sheer nonsense of this post. Drugs over food to get big.
Say you get two identical clones maintaining a consistent weight at 2,500 calories a day training the exact same way. One clone takes 2 grams of gear a day but maintains his current caloric and macro nutrient ratio at 2,500 calories per day. The second clone remains natural, still trains, but increases his caloric intake by 1,500 calories. After three months who is bigger?

Working with bodybuilders? What does that mean? You do know that many increase their drug intake yet lose weight and lose muscle when prepping for a show?

The 20 pounds you gained was a lot of water weight. Your diet didn't remain the same. You can't build something out of nothing.

I’ve actually tried this myself, I gained a lot more on gear eating like 2200 calories a day vs I was clean and eating 3500 calories a day

I was leaner, muscles popped more and hard while on gear and eating low calories

I agree with overload

However, to be a successful bber all three has to be on point, training, eating, and drugs

But a local gym rats, if you are consistent with training, decent to average genetics, eating here and there, IMO, again, drugs are the most important from my experience

[gib]

Wow Overload! I've always considered you a pretty knowledgeable guy and shocked at the sheer nonsense of this post. Drugs over food to get big.
Say you get two identical clones maintaining a consistent weight at 2,500 calories a day training the exact same way. One clone takes 2 grams of gear a day but maintains his current caloric and macro nutrient ratio at 2,500 calories per day. The second clone remains natural, still trains, but increases his caloric intake by 1,500 calories. After three months who is bigger?

Working with bodybuilders? What does that mean? You do know that many increase their drug intake yet lose weight and lose muscle when prepping for a show?

The 20 pounds you gained was a lot of water weight. Your diet didn't remain the same. You can't build something out of nothing.

Yes, but let me give you another scenario. To clones, same training and diet and calorie intake, but one is on gear the other is not. The guy on the gear will get more muscle and lower body fat than the natty.

So gear works. But yes, beyond a certain level its effects my be diminishing or counter productive.

I had a friend (world class powerlifter) who made amazing gains on a moderate dosage of test + deca. Looked amazing, He decided, for various reasons to move up a bodyweight class, and then even more more class after that. He upped the test + deca dosage, added in winstrol and anadrol. He lifted more than ever, but became really bloated and puffy looking, not helped by the fact that he was quite short to begin with. He broke personal records at that higher class, but is ideal weight in my view was back down to where he was with the lower dosages.

[bhank]

Bhank, every time you speak, you weaken the nation. You know nothing about the history of anabolics it seems.

The most effective Anabolics are still the same things they discovered 50-100 plus years ago. Also if insulin worked so great Milos wouldn’t have needed to damn near kill himself injecting SEO into his no tricep having small arms. Palumbo did not haves good look fuck Insulin you can accomplish the same thing timing your sugar intake. Have desert with your meal boom insulin spike to help digestion no need to be banging insulin.  McKee is spot on they are eating more food to get bigger to stay competitive the Anabolics are the same. Peptides and insulin and farms have nothing on old school
Anabolics hell in the 70s it was all legal pharmacy grade stuff they had better access stuff then than now

70s bodybuilders were basically part time amateurs there was no money in bodybuilding guys didn’t do it film time for a decade

[joswift]

Genetics = response to drugs...

[GigantorX]

Kid starts getting that Ronnie Coleman look, with sides of beef just hangin' from his body. I see a very bright future for him (Top 3)

Nice 1-2-3 picture in front of the conference room bathrooms.

[IroNat]

Bhank, every time you speak, you weaken the nation. You know nothing about the history of anabolics it seems.

Bhank went off his meds. 

[The Scott]

The most effective Anabolics are still the same things they discovered 50-100 plus years ago. Also if insulin worked so great Milos wouldn’t have needed to damn near kill himself injecting SEO into his no tricep having small arms. Palumbo did not haves good look fuck Insulin you can accomplish the same thing timing your sugar intake. Have desert with your meal boom insulin spike to help digestion no need to be banging insulin.  McKee is spot on they are eating more food to get bigger to stay competitive the Anabolics are the same. Peptides and insulin and farms have nothing on old school
Anabolics hell in the 70s it was all legal pharmacy grade stuff they had better access stuff then than now

70s bodybuilders were basically part time amateurs there was no money in bodybuilding guys didn’t do it film time for a decade

Most worked for a living.  Supposedly Arnold and Franco were the only ones to actually make money from bodybuilding (guest posing and courses) and it was said to be around $50,000 a year for Arnold.   Then someone thought it would make a good "career" and so it began.  Lazy men and women everywhere took drugs and sold their holes and souls only to wind up for the greater part like Denise Rutkowski, a free range hobo-ess.

[The Scott]

Don't be sad Nick, I'm not saying you aren't huge, I'm just saying I have a thing for symmetry and beauty (bit h0mo, sure...)

You know, one could make the statement (cuz it's no arugument) that Paris' physique shits all over the turd that is this Nick's bloated sprayed on diarrhea tan body.  But Nick probably wants a "Ferrigno" (i.e., $20) for even having someone mention him getting crapped on so I'll just say that Paris is vastly superior in both physique and looks.

Nick looks like he's doing his famous "O-Facial" pose...Very poopular with the schmoes.  FTN.

[MCWAY]

Dexter started out as a bantamweight, he’s a very small man, 5’6, naturally just tiny, he went as high as 250’s in the off season, ask coach, he got very big in the off season during his last few years of competing

He has competed in the 230’s, he said so himself, that’s 100 pounds more than when he first stepped on stage, shredded too. That’s A LOT of weight to gain on a 5’6 structure

I would reckon he gradually upped the dosages since he was a bantamweight, but played it “smart”

I know he started as a bantamweight. I first saw him on American Muscle, winning the Southern States title as a middleweight. He said he'd be unbeatable if he became a light-heavyweight because he had the shape, the muscle bellies, everything.

He won his class at the USA that year (1995, I believe) but lost the overall to Phil Hernon (that was the same show where Craig Titus threw his temper tantrum when he got relegated to 2nd in the heavies).

Dex was getting bigger in the offseason his last few years as a pro. He also stated that his coach (George Farah, if I'm not mistaken) was stuffing him like a prized bird for late November. He'd never eaten that much food in his life, he claimed. And he was eating more actual food and not drinking as many shakes anymore.

Bodybuilders have to be big and full these days, according to Dex. So they're being gorged like never before (to which he also attributed the bellies). More guys are trying to cram on too much mass for their frames. So, their physiques look like an assemblage of other people's bodyparts, with their tummies protruding.