The Da Vinci Code

[Deedee]

You have it backwords. Quite a bit of his "research" was unproven and outright lies!

When you're right, you're right.

From a literary standpoint, IMO Proust it ain’t. The grammatical structure and narrative style of the novel read like a Harliquin romance mystery.  The little mystery “clues” sprinkled throughout are lame at best and take about 6 exciting seconds to solve. Every 3-page chapter does end in some little cliffhanger suspense thread, so the average non-reader can get through it, and that’s why  it’s become one of the fastest-selling books of all time. The material itself is old news, been done a few times before, but no one ever paid attention. For good reason…it’s highly suspect, and unprovable. Dan Brown just made it good reading for the masses.

There is plenty of conjecture that da Vinci was a gay man, but even that aside, it’s a fact that painters and sculptors, certainly during the renaissance period, often hired common male street hustlers as models. (There’s anecdotal evidence that the subject of Michelangelo’s David was a notorious, and well-rewarded man of the streets.) More than likely, the supposed Mary Magdelene figure in the last supper was just another ethereal-looking boy-pro da Vinci fancied and cast as the disciple John. It also seems highly unlikely that in Jesus’ time, a woman would have been present at such a meal with a male-only crowd. She would have been serving, not dining. It seems ridiculous, centuries later to fit convenient “clues” into any of da Vinci’s works, and if he had any idea, he’d probably be spinning in his grave.

[OzmO]

Again, did anybody watch 60 minutes?  I haven't read the DaVinci Code, but they pretty much poo-pooed on the whole Scion (sp) thing as it was made up by a hoaxster from France.  Placard, was his name, I think.  Gonna read it soon.

Negative press.  consider the source.

What Da Vinci code does to damage the church mostly will probably end up being the churches manipulation fo the original gospels.  Causing us to re-think the structure our Christian relgion is based on.  Not the groups or secret societies in the book.  They can easily be discredited.

Some possible points regarding this to ponder:

Political agenda at the Council of Nicea such as combining pagan beliefs with christian beliefs to form a church that appeals to a larger numbers

The equality of women.  Paul was such a woman hater.

The origin of the cathars and the churches propaganda campaign to align them with satan.

The other gnostic gospels

The fact the NT gospels where written 40-50 years after jesus's death

The many contradictions in the present KJV Bible

Good friday and a nicely cooked steak.

[knny187]

When you're right, you're right.

From a literary standpoint, IMO Proust it ain’t. The grammatical structure and narrative style of the novel read like a Harliquin romance mystery.  The little mystery “clues” sprinkled throughout are lame at best and take about 6 exciting seconds to solve. Every 3-page chapter does end in some little cliffhanger suspense thread, so the average non-reader can get through it, and that’s why  it’s become one of the fastest-selling books of all time. The material itself is old news, been done a few times before, but no one ever paid attention. For good reason…it’s highly suspect, and unprovable. Dan Brown just made it good reading for the masses.

There is plenty of conjecture that da Vinci was a gay man, but even that aside, it’s a fact that painters and sculptors, certainly during the renaissance period, often hired common male street hustlers as models. (There’s anecdotal evidence that the subject of Michelangelo’s David was a notorious, and well-rewarded man of the streets.) More than likely, the supposed Mary Magdelene figure in the last supper was just another ethereal-looking boy-pro da Vinci fancied and cast as the disciple John. It also seems highly unlikely that in Jesus’ time, a woman would have been present at such a meal with a male-only crowd. She would have been serving, not dining. It seems ridiculous, centuries later to fit convenient “clues” into any of da Vinci’s works, and if he had any idea, he’d probably be spinning in his grave.

Another very interesting post



I thought this would be a could topic to bring up here.

I can't say that I know anything about this topic, but it does seem to make some noise in the Christian/Catholic community.

I can't say I've formed an opinion in the matter either way.

[JamieX4200]

I read the book while I was locked up... It uncovers alot of secrets that cathlics want kept buried, and murderd popes and what not and gay activity between priests and young boys.. and some other things.  Excellent book, so I'm sure the movie will be good.

[24KT]

You have it backwords. Quite a bit of his "research" was unproven and outright lies!

I have none of it backwards, ...you're just having a knee-jerk reaction without reading what I wrote.

Dan Brown created a novel to address many of his own unanswered questions.

His work was well researched and he drew upon many facts as well as fiction to weave an incredible tale that has people talking.

The Church is all up in arms because in Brown's novel, there exists too many facts, up against too many discrepancies in the "official" Church rhetoric, that the Church fears may cause people to leave the church. It frightens them to no end.

In previous days Brown would have been burned for heresy, so go see the movie, go read the book, and enjoy the fact that you have access to such heretical information.

BTW- does anyone have any credible sources of information on the "Cathars" of Rennes le Chateau?

Now, unless you can provide me with some credible info on the Cathars... shut up!

please and thankyou   

[Deedee]

I have none of it backwards, ...you're just having a knee-jerk reaction without reading what I wrote.

Now, unless you can provide me with some credible info on the Cathars... shut up!

please and thankyou   

Jaggerina, there's lots of info online, but if you want hard copy - The Perfect Heresy: The Revolutionary Life and Spectacular Death of the Medieval Cathars - I thought was brill.  Plus, it's written by a fellow Canuck, Stephen O'Shea...gotta support our Canadian writers!

[24KT]

Jaggerina, there's lots of info online, but if you want hard copy - The Perfect Heresy: The Revolutionary Life and Spectacular Death of the Medieval Cathars - I thought was brill.  Plus, it's written by a fellow Canuck, Stephen O'Shea...gotta support our Canadian writers!

Thanks Deedee, I'll check it out.

[GET_BIGGER]

The Da Vinci Code is not full of facts.  It's quite the opposite.  Some of the places that are listed in the book have seen a 50% increase in tourism.  All the tourist are asking these questions relating to the book and they have had to publish literature for the tourist stating that what was in the book is incorrect because they got so tired having to explain it to all of them. 

[Deedee]

Some of the places that are listed in the book have seen a 50% increase in tourism.  All the tourist are asking these questions relating to the book and they have had to publish literature for the tourist stating that what was in the book is incorrect because they got so tired having to explain it to all of them. 

The Louvre officials were frothing at the mouth when the sudden deluge of tourists caused endless bottle-necking at the Mona Lisa exhibit.  They were finally forced (after much arguing and drama, french style) to include a da Vinci code tour for "les cretins." 

[Ursus]

All you need to know is that it is a work of FICTION not fact. Its also a very good entertaining story. Thats coming from a catholic.

[24KT]

The Da Vinci Code is not full of facts.  It's quite the opposite.  Some of the places that are listed in the book have seen a 50% increase in tourism.  All the tourist are asking these questions relating to the book and they have had to publish literature for the tourist stating that what was in the book is incorrect because they got so tired having to explain it to all of them. 

   Sheesh! Does nobody read anymore? Get_Bigger, ...you need to Get_Bigger bifocals. {bad pun intended}

Dan Brown created a novel to address many of his own unanswered questions.

His work was well researched and he drew upon many facts as well as fiction to weave an incredible tale that has people talking.

Novel = a story printed into a book, a creation of the imagination etc.,
Not necessarily an accurate chronicle of events past or anything purporting to be. That would make it a thesis.

Fact = Something true & verifiable
Fiction = Something made up, a creation of the imagination.

Dan Brown used both facts combined with fiction to write his novel.

[The Showstoppa]

EVERY novel is combined with facts and fiction, but people are taking this one as an historic work and quoting it to others as ALL fact.  I think that is where the problem is.

[OzmO]

EVERY novel is combined with facts and fiction, but people are taking this one as an historic work and quoting it to others as ALL fact.  I think that is where the problem is.

That's only one of the problems.  Another problem is the book makes the church look bad.

[24KT]

That's only one of the problems.  Another problem is the book makes the church look bad.

{ROTFLMAO}  ...as opposed to centuries of intolerance, bigotry, mass murder, and corruption?

The Spanish Inquisition wasn't a tea party ya know. Try to get a little perspective here. {lol} 

[24KT]

Ban 'Da Vinci Code,' Says Philippine Official


Tom Hanks and Audrey Tautou appear in a
scene from 'The Da Vinci Code,' which hits
theatres in Canada May 19.

MANILA (Reuters) - The Philippine government should ban the controversial movie "The Da Vinci Code," a senior official in the mainly Catholic country said Wednesday, describing the religious thriller as blasphemous.
 
The film, based on the best-selling fiction novel of the same title, is due to open in Manila's cinemas next week.

"I think we should do everything not to allow it to be shown," said Eduardo Ermita, executive secretary to President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, expressing his personal opinion as a "devout Catholic."

He told journalists the state's censors should take a closer look at its guidelines before giving the green light to the film whose central premise is that Jesus Christ sired a child by Mary Magdalene.

More than 80 percent of the Philippines' 85 million population are Roman Catholic. Along with Malta, the Philippines is one of only two countries in the world without a divorce law and frowns on the promotion of artificial contraception.

"In the name of many like you who love and revere the Son of God made Man, I strongly appeal to you that the showing of the film 'Da Vinci Code' be banned throughout our land," said a Roman Catholic archbishop in a letter to the chief censor this week.

Ramon Arguelles of the archdiocese of Lipa, south of Manila, said the movie was an affront to Christianity, reminding the censors that the government had imposed a ban on another movie, "The Last Temptation of Christ" in the 1980s.

Ermita said Arroyo, also a devout Roman Catholic, has not made any statement on the issue. She is due to return from a four-day state visit to Saudi Arabia Thursday.

"It's something that we should not be talking about," he said, referring to the movie's storyline. "We might get struck by lightning."

[OzmO]

lol....  that's funny.  silly flips 

[24KT]

The last time I can remember them banning a movie here in Ontario was back in 1978 I think.
Mary Brown who was head of the Ontario Censor Board didn't want "Pretty Baby" with Brooke Shields because it depicted a girl younger than the age of consent, ...consenting. I'm not sure but I think Bob Guccione's "Caligula" was also banned here as well.

[24KT]

I just heard that in India, Christian protestors are burning copies of The DaVinci code.

In addition, a local Mumbai group called "The Catholic Secular Forum" has called on Christians to "fast unto death" to try to stop the release of the film in India. Christian only make up less than 2% of India's 1.1 billion people.

[Johnny Apollo]

Stupid Christians...

[Dos Equis]

Christians try to repress their sexual urges...And from the catholic church fiasco..we see where this ends up!


The christians on this board probably try to repress their sexual urges so much that doing so has made them raging pedophiles!


That's why they're so angry so much.

Absurd.  I'm a Christian and I'm very happy.

You don't have to "repress" sexual urges.  Sex is normal.  Just needs to be confined to marriage.  There is nothing abnormal about sex within the confines of marriage, which is what many Christians support.

Repressing sexual urges makes Christians pedophiles?  Pure hyperbole. 

 

[Johnny Apollo]

Absurd.  I'm a Christian and I'm very happy.

You don't have to "repress" sexual urges.  Sex is normal.  Just needs to be confined to marriage.  There is nothing abnormal about sex within the confines of marriage, which is what many Christians support.

Repressing sexual urges makes Christians pedophiles?  Pure hyperbole. 

Thanks for proving my point...


"Marriage" isn't a natural thing. Humans by nature aren't monogamous. Hardly any animal species is. Marriage is an unnatural thing that humans invented. That's why the rate of infidelity is so high. Humans were not meant to be monogamous.

You've got two levels of repression of sexual urges here.

1.Not being able to have sex prior to marriage.

2.Not being able to even have sexual thoughts or urges before mariage or for other women than your wife DURING marriage.

Jesus stated that even sinful thoughts is in itself a sin!


Christians aren't even able to THINK about having sex or else that is a sin. Therefor christians repress their sexual urges like putting shaking up a cola bottle and getting supprised when it blows up in your face! That's why we see the rate of pedophilia so high among christians. They have been repressing their sexual urges so long they have gone out of whack and now crave little children!

[Dos Equis]

Thanks for proving my point...


"Marriage" isn't a natural thing. Humans by nature aren't monogamous. Hardly any animal species is. Marriage is an unnatural thing that humans invented. That's why the rate of infidelity is so high. Humans were not meant to be monogamous.

You've got two levels of repression of sexual urges here.

1.Not being able to have sex prior to marriage.

2.Not being able to even have sexual thoughts or urges before mariage or for other women than your wife DURING marriage.

Jesus stated that even sinful thoughts is in itself a sin!


Christians aren't even able to THINK about having sex or else that is a sin. Therefor christians repress their sexual urges like putting shaking up a cola bottle and getting supprised when it blows up in your face! That's why we see the rate of pedophilia so high among christians. They have been repressing their sexual urges so long they have gone out of whack and now crave little children!

Hey.  You didn't attack me.  I think I can actually respond to this one.   

If you believe in the creation story, like many do, then marriage was the first institution on Earth:  Adam and Eve.  Marriage is literally the oldest institution on the planet.  Marriage and family are the backbone of most societies.  The Bible talks about a man leaving home, finding a wife, and the two becoming one flesh.  That's what marriage is all about.  It has always been a special part of American society.  It's very special.  Weddings are beautiful.  There are few things I admire more than a long-term, successful marriage.   

It's obviously true that infidelity is a problem and the divorce rate is high, but those facts don't make marriage abnormal.

Nothing wrong with thinking about sex.  It's the fantasizing that causes problems.  Unhealthy relationships start with unhealthy thoughts.  That's all those admonitions  mean IMO.

And where is the support for your link between Christians and pedophilia?   

[Johnny Apollo]

Hey.  You didn't attack me.  I think I can actually respond to this one.   

If you believe in the creation story, like many do, then marriage was the first institution on Earth:  Adam and Eve.  Marriage is literally the oldest institution on the planet.  Marriage and family are the backbone of most societies.  The Bible talks about a man leaving home, finding a wife, and the two becoming one flesh.  That's what marriage is all about.  It has always been a special part of American society.  It's very special.  Weddings are beautiful.  There are few things I admire more than a long-term, successful marriage.   

Except I DON'T believe in the creation story. You're begging the question here. Assuming the bible to be true to defend the bible!

Where I live(reality) marriage is farily new to the human species(a few thousand years old). Humans evolved for thousands and thousands of years without it and we are as we are now without marriage.

It's obviously true that infidelity is a problem and the divorce rate is high, but those facts don't make marriage abnormal.

Of course it is. Humans urge to have sex with multiple partners because it is part of who they are. Humans aren't monogamous animals naturally. NO OTHER primates are monogamous. Neither are humans!

Nothing wrong with thinking about sex.  It's the fantasizing that causes problems.  Unhealthy relationships start with unhealthy thoughts.  That's all those admonitions  mean IMO.

And where is the support for your link between Christians and pedophilia?   

Jesus said that simply thinking about sinning is a sin.

Therefor thinking about sex with anyone except your wife(married or not) would be a sin.

Jesus even went as far as saying that simply LUSTING after a woman and being sexually attracted to someoen other than your wife is a sin! He said you should poke your eyes out if you lust too much to prevent you from sinning!

[Dos Equis]

Jesus said that simply thinking about sinning is a sin.

Really?  Where? 

I look at the "thought" sins the same way I look at things like conspiracy.  Only requires an agreement and some overt act, not the actual commission of the crime.  With sin, and adultery in particular, I think admiring a beautiful woman is normal and not a "sin," but fantasizing about sex with this same woman is definitely a problem.  Just like crime, most sin starts with unhealthy thoughts. 

There is nothing abnormal about an admonition to control your own thought process.  You shouldn't fantasize about robbing banks, murder, theft, rape, etc.  Not a big deal. 

[Johnny Apollo]

Really?  Where? 

I look at the "thought" sins the same way I look at things like conspiracy.  Only requires an agreement and some overt act, not the actual commission of the crime.  With sin, and adultery in particular, I think admiring a beautiful woman is normal and not a "sin," but fantasizing about sex with this same woman is definitely a problem.  Just like crime, most sin starts with unhealthy thoughts. 

There is nothing abnormal about an admonition to control your own thought process.  You shouldn't fantasize about robbing banks, murder, theft, rape, etc.  Not a big deal. 

You've obviously never read the bible...

Matthew 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 


 Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 


 Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 


 Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. 


 Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. 

If this isn't Sexual repression I don't know what is.