1 of 4? New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

[Dos Equis]

Copied from the classic often used Trump line. “problems ... the likes of which perhaps we’ve never seen." "We're doing numbers like we've never seen." "...at levels that nobody has ever seen before."

Trump also has been known to say, "Everything in life is luck." Currently, it looks like his good luck has run out.

My how times have changed. Remember when he said this in 1990, "Well, if I ever ran for office, I'd do better as a Democrat than as a Republican - and that's not because I'd be more liberal, because I'm conservative. But the working guy would elect me. He likes me. When I walk down the street, those cabbies start yelling out their windows."

What is your point?

[Primemuscle]

What is your point?

Does everything have to have a point with you? Well, if you must the one possibility is that you seem take your talking points directly from what Trump says. I guess this can happen when someone hangs on his every word like it is the gospel.

[Primemuscle]

What is your point?

Does everything have to have a point with you? Well, if you must the one possibility is that you seem take your talking points directly from what Trump says. I guess this can happen when someone hangs on his every word like it is the gospel.

[Dos Equis]

Does everything have to have a point with you? Well, if you must the one possibility is that you seem take your talking points directly from what Trump says. I guess this can happen when someone hangs on his every word like it is the gospel.

What you posted was rambling and not relevant to my comments.  That's why I asked.  Just trying to understand what you were saying.  Thanks for clarifying. 

Regarding Trump, remind me again which one of us gets emails from Trump and cannot stop talking about him?   

[LurkerNoMore]

Hahaha so the red hats still won't acknowledge that all this is because he broke the law.   

Political?   

It's his own little dumpster fire.  He has no one but himself to blame.

[LurkerNoMore]

ALL CAPS rage.  Looks like we are going to find out he isn't worth as much as he claims.      How sad.

Just watch, in a last ditch attempt to delay this even more he will change his legal team and request an extension.   

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Trump Freaks out After Judge Finds Him Liable for Fraud: ‘I AM WORTH MUCH MORE THAN THE NUMBERS SHOWN’
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Trump+Freaks+out+After+Judge+Finds+Him+Liable+for+Fraud%3A+%E2%80%98I+AM+WORTH+MUCH+MORE+THAN+THE+NUMBERS+SHOWN%E2%80%99
---

[OzmO]

I have to say...  This law seems a little totalitarian to me.

Giving a state the power to enforce what amounts to a corporate death penalty over fraud without a trial is overreach and abusive. 

I support consequences for fraud even though there isn't a clear-cut victim.  But I don't think the power should be given to a small group within a state government to decide this.  It needs to happen in a trial and the penalties should be in proportion to the crime.  If financial restitution is the consequence or disgorgement then the company should be given the opportunity to cure.  If they can't then a judgment is filed and the company can then get seized for assets to cure.   

As for targeting Trump...

No shit.  Why wouldn't his opposition be targeting him?  Think about some of the shit that comes out of his mouth and the threats he's made since 2016.  He put himself on the firing line and people aren't going to roll over and let him do whatever.  Welcome to the big leagues where you are on the firing line every day which means your shit better be in order or you will get burned.   If he didn't want to get targeted then he shouldn't have stepped in the arena. 

Him getting targeted?  I wouldn't expect any less from either side. 

[Dos Equis]

I have to say...  This law seems a little totalitarian to me.

Giving a state the power to enforce what amounts to a corporate death penalty over fraud without a trial is overreach and abusive. 

I support consequences for fraud even though there isn't a clear-cut victim.  But I don't think the power should be given to a small group within a state government to decide this.  It needs to happen in a trial and the penalties should be in proportion to the crime.  If financial restitution is the consequence or disgorgement then the company should be given the opportunity to cure.  If they can't then a judgment is filed and the company can then get seized for assets to cure.   

As for targeting Trump...

No shit.  Why wouldn't his opposition be targeting him?  Think about some of the shit that comes out of his mouth and the threats he's made since 2016.  He put himself on the firing line and people aren't going to roll over and let him do whatever.  Welcome to the big leagues where you are on the firing line every day which means your shit better be in order or you will get burned.   If he didn't want to get targeted then he shouldn't have stepped in the arena. 

Him getting targeted?  I wouldn't expect any less from either side.

You expect Biden to target his political opponent using the DOJ and criminal prosecutions?  For other Democrats to target Trump for criminal prosecutions?

Keep in mind this is unprecedented. 

[OzmO]

You expect Biden to target his political opponent using the DOJ and criminal prosecutions?  For other Democrats to target Trump for criminal prosecutions?

Keep in mind this is unprecedented.

I expect anyone will use whatever they can to target a political opponent within the confines of the legal system if in fact there is reasonable evidence to warrant such.   

Trump has:

Classified unsecured docs at Margo
Evidence of fraud in New York State
Georgia election interference
Hush money on the eve of the 2016 election

If any of these has weak evidence behind them, any lawyer worth their salt gets them thrown out or at the very least wins in court.   These indictments have merit and it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger or who the gun is.

Same with Biden, Trump, Santos, Menedez, etc.

At some point, people have to wake the fuck up and stop crying "unfair".

The dude is dirty.

 

[Dos Equis]

I expect anyone will use whatever they can to target a political opponent within the confines of the legal system if in fact there is reasonable evidence to warrant such.   

Trump has:

Classified unsecured docs at Margo
Evidence of fraud in New York State
Georgia election interference
Hush money on the eve of the 2016 election


If any of these has weak evidence behind them, any lawyer worth their salt gets them thrown out or at the very least wins in court.   These indictments have merit and it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger or who the gun is.

At some point, people have to wake the fuck up and stop crying "unfair".

The dude is dirty.

That really gives too much credit to the system.  The system doesn't always get it right.  Like the Trump "rape" case.  Should have never happened.  Or the partisan prosecutors whose sole mission is to interfere in the election by making Trump unelectable.   

Trump might be the most investigated American citizen in American history.  After getting his tax returns, lawyer-client communications, private social media messages, spying, etc., they really have nothing.  If he was "dirty," they would have something more than he paid off a porn star, kept documents he obtained while POTUS, and made speeches and contested the 2020 election. 

This attempt to criminalize political differences and use law enforcement to target political enemies is the stuff of Third World countries.

[OzmO]

That really gives too much credit to the system.  The system doesn't always get it right.  Like the Trump "rape" case.  Should have never happened.  Or the partisan prosecutors whose sole mission is to interfere in the election by making Trump unelectable.   

Trump might be the most investigated American citizen in American history.  After getting his tax returns, lawyer-client communications, private social media messages, spying, etc., they really have nothing. If he was "dirty," they would have something more than he paid off a porn star, kept documents he obtained while POTUS, and made speeches and contested the 2020 election. 

This attempt to criminalize political differences and use law enforcement to target political enemies is the stuff of Third World countries.

It's much more than that.  If it was as you say, it would easily be won or thrown out or maybe even never get to this point.

There is evidence that warrants these indictments.

The dude is dirty.

Meanwhile:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/rcna118140

Our system certainly doesn't always get it right.  But that's why there is an appeal process.  And sure even then, sometimes evidence comes to light that exonerates a felon.  But that's seldom.

[Dos Equis]

It's much more than that.  If it was as you say, it would easily be won or thrown out or maybe even never get to this point.

There is evidence that warrants these indictments.

The dude is dirty.

Meanwhile:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/rcna118140

Our system certainly doesn't always get it right.  But that's why there is an appeal process.  And sure even then, sometimes evidence comes to light that exonerates a felon.  But that's seldom.

That's simply not accurate.  It's not easy to get rid of criminal indictments.  And you have to take into account the TDS factor.  What we have seen since 2016 is unprecedented lawlessness that included the FBI, the DOJ, judges, etc.  They used the FISA courts to obtain warrants to spy on Trump based on a a dossier that contained false information and was paid for by Hillary and the DNC.  We had a years-long special counsel investigation that turned up nothing.  It took the Durham Report, over six years later, to show that it was all BS.  So no, it's not easy to get rid of BS claims and allegations, particularly when they are supported by the government. 

I have tried to walk some of my very educated, smart friends through the actual facts regarding the Russia hoax, etc.  What I typically get is a response similar to yours:  Trump is dirty.  Except they just talk about what a terrible person he is, his tweets, etc.  I remember talking to one of my friends who owns a small business and he was talking about how much the Trump tax cuts helped him and his business.  I asked if he was not supporting him?  He said:  No.  He's a terrible person.  Those are emotional responses based on extreme dislike for Trump. 

You really should try removing Trump's name and substituting "American citizen" when looking at everything.  It's outrageous.  This Banana Republic stuff will destroy the country. 

[OzmO]

That's simply not accurate.  It's not easy to get rid of criminal indictments.  And you have to take into account the TDS factor.  What we have seen since 2016 is unprecedented lawlessness that included the FBI, the DOJ, judges, etc.  They used the FISA courts to obtain warrants to spy on Trump based on a a dossier that contained false information and was paid for by Hillary and the DNC.  We had a years-long special counsel investigation that turned up nothing.  It took the Durham Report, over six years later, to show that it was all BS.  So no, it's not easy to get rid of BS claims and allegations, particularly when they are supported by the government. 

I have tried to walk some of my very educated, smart friends through the actual facts regarding the Russia hoax, etc.  What I typically get is a response similar to yours:  Trump is dirty.  Except they just talk about what a terrible person he is, his tweets, etc.  I remember talking to one of my friends who owns a small business and he was talking about how much the Trump tax cuts helped him and his business.  I asked if he was not supporting him?  He said:  No.  He's a terrible person.  Those are emotional responses based on extreme dislike for Trump. 

You really should try removing Trump's name and substituting "American citizen" when looking at everything.  It's outrageous.  This Banana Republic stuff will destroy the country.

The Russian thing ran its course and was shown not to have merit.  Perhaps some of these will or won't if he's dirty.   Based on the totality of what's stacked against him, I am betting he is dirty.  Maybe he beats all of these.  I will sit behind my keyboard and sit corrected. 

My contention on my first post today was similarly inspired by what you just suggested.  Replace Trump with an American Citizen.  The idea that the state can do what's it trying to do to Trump's company is outrageous IMO. 

[Dos Equis]

The Russian thing ran its course and was shown not to have merit.  Perhaps some of these will or won't if he's dirty.   Based on the totality of what's stacked against him, I am betting he is dirty.  Maybe he beats all of these.  I will sit behind my keyboard and sit corrected. 

My contention on my first post today was similarly inspired by what you just suggested.  Replace Trump with an American Citizen.  The idea that the state can do what's it trying to do to Trump's company is outrageous IMO.

It's not just that the Russia hoax didn't have merit.  It's that Clinton and the DNC were able to literally fabricate "evidence" and use the DOJ, FBI, and the courts to run that scam for years. 

I don't have any doubt that if these cases proceed to trial that Trump will be convicted, especially before a New York or DC jury.  If that happens, and he loses the election, we are toast. 

This New York judge trying to shut down Trump's businesses sounds unconstitutional to me.  But the precedent has already been set for Democrats to use law enforcement, government, and the courts to target political enemies, even if it violates the law, constitution, fundamental fairness, etc.  The ends justifies the means for people when it comes to Trump.   

[obsidian]

I don’t understand how some folks don’t realize this is all political to keep him from running again. Nothing more. Whether you like the guy or not, this is done for only one reason. It sucks because it will only keep the tit for tat going.

We all know that. But why are they getting away with it?!

[obsidian]

Damn this weazel is fugly!

[Dos Equis]

We all know that. But why are they getting away with it?!

Because there are no consequences. 

[LurkerNoMore]

Because there are no consequences.

Because it is legit.  Because there is evidence to support bring the charges about.  Because the evidence has mostly been obtained through the vast majority of his own party, administration, appointments, and actions.

There is no political basis to it.  It is warranted. 

[Dos Equis]

Because it is legit.  Because there is evidence to support bring the charges about.  Because the evidence has mostly been obtained through the vast majority of his own party, administration, appointments, and actions.

There is no political basis to it.  It is warranted.

No, the Russia dossier was not legit, nor were the FISA warrants, nor the Muller investigation, etc.

[LurkerNoMore]

No, the Russia dossier was not legit, nor were the FISA warrants, nor the Muller investigation, etc.

And there are no indictments over those things either are there?

Funny how you would throw the Muller investigation in there.  It was only, like, the most successful "witch hunt" in history.  The number of witches caught and convicted.....   whoooooo!

[Dos Equis]

And there are no indictments over those things either are there?

Funny how you would throw the Muller investigation in there.  It was only, like, the most successful "witch hunt" in history.  The number of witches caught and convicted.....   whoooooo!

There were zero indictments involving Trump or anyone from his campaign colluding with Russia.  It is a proven fact that the dossier was fabricated and paid for by Clinton and the DNC.  The fact no one was really held accountable for that fraud set the stage for these whacked out people to do whatever they want.  There will be no consequences. 

[LurkerNoMore]

There were zero indictments involving Trump or anyone from his campaign colluding with Russia.  It is a proven fact that the dossier was fabricated and paid for by Clinton and the DNC.  The fact no one was really held accountable for that fraud set the stage for these whacked out people to do whatever they want.  There will be no consequences.

Isn't that what I just said?  There were no indictments.   There didn't have to be indictments over Russia collusion.  There was an investigation which was par for course when concerns were raised.  During that investigation, many people decided to break the law by their own decision or were exposed in other law breaking activities in the process. 

These people you refer to must be Republicans.  It has been proven the great election interference of 2020 came directly from the GOP side thanks to the idiot red hats.  No one is doing "whatever they want".   

[AbrahamG]

I seriously cannot remember and am frankly growing tired of politics but someone remind me why Paul Manafort went to prison.  Please.

[Dos Equis]

I seriously cannot remember and am frankly growing tired of politics but someone remind me why Paul Manafort went to prison.  Please.

Old crimes that had nothing to do with Russia collusion. 

[chaos]

I seriously cannot remember and am frankly growing tired of politics but someone remind me why Paul Manafort went to prison.  Please.

Buckle up Nancy, it's only getting worse.