Author Topic: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?  (Read 41790 times)

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #725 on: November 04, 2023, 05:41:38 AM »




Tapeworm

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #726 on: November 04, 2023, 05:52:17 AM »
Why would we do that when Israel was the Guinea pig for the Vax? The current percent of the population that is boosted is 3%. So at this point everyone in an antivaxxer.

I dont mean people physically moved to Israel. I mean that antivax Republicans are now supporting Israel's actions. I have to say no any country killing civilians and kids by the thousands so I'm not with you guys on this one.

I suspect it has to do with a lot of Republicans being Christian. But if Republicans are back to approving funding for other country's wars then MAGA is dead. All the America First guys haven't got a word to say as Biden pisses away US resources in defense of Israel. Wtf yo.

You guys complained, correctly, as Biden looted the country to fund Ukraine on the grounds that there are issues at home which should absolutely take priority. And that picking a fight that has no upside for US citizens isn't the way to go. Explain to me how none of that reasoning applies when it's time to fund Israel?

In two weeks they'll be telling me to Support The Troops who shouldn't even be over there. Then something bad will happen because we angered the Muzzies and they'll all cheer for expansion of the surveillance state. Fucking Groundhog day.

In b4 Royalty tells me to move to Iran. Why don't you move to DC. You can put on a rah rah skirt and blow uniparty warmongers irl.

Gym Rat

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #727 on: November 04, 2023, 06:02:30 AM »
I dont mean people physically moved to Israel. I mean that antivax Republicans smart mutafukkers are now supporting Israel's actions. I have to say no any country killing civilians and kids by the thousands so I'm not with you guys on this one.


The "anti-vax" libturd term is hilarious.   ::)

"We're gonna (try to) label you something negative if you dont let us experiment on you without repercussion or held liable."     ::) ::) ::)

Dumb fukking libturd kvnts  ::)

Tapeworm

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #728 on: November 04, 2023, 06:08:30 AM »
The "anti-vax" libturd term is hilarious.   ::)

"We're gonna (try to) label you something negative if you dont let us experiment on you without repercussion or held liable."     ::) ::) ::)

Dumb fukking libturd kvnts  ::)

They should definitely stay boosted as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree that the US should support Israel in any material way. They're always crowing about they have a right to defend themselves. So do it. It has nothing to do with us and Trump was correct when he said we shouldn't pay for other country's defense.

loco

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #729 on: November 04, 2023, 06:11:19 AM »
Jewish Viewers Find a Refuge in Fox News

Fox News, long a preferred source of news for the right, has lately become an information refuge for American Jews who believe that the mainstream media has been too hostile to Israel.

It’s somewhat of an improbable alliance. Jews overwhelmingly identify as Democrats.
And as the Republican Party came to embrace a more populist brand of politics that vilifies “globalist” corporate interests and wealthy liberal financiers like George Soros — something many see as coded antisemitism — Fox News hosts and guests promoted those views.

But more than any of the major cable news channels — and perhaps more than any other major American media outlet — Fox News has wrapped itself in the Israeli flag in the weeks since the Hamas attack. Its coverage tends to emphasize the radical and antisemitic elements of the pro-Palestinian opposition, particularly on college campuses, while playing down the civilian casualties from Israeli strikes.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/jewish-viewers-refuge-fox-news-174918953.html

Tapeworm

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #730 on: November 04, 2023, 06:12:16 AM »
Jellyhead Joe is going to send US troops to die over there.

Fuck that. And FJB.

loco

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #731 on: November 04, 2023, 06:16:12 AM »

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #732 on: November 04, 2023, 06:30:15 AM »
Hamas’s Strategy Depends on Maximizing Palestinian Civilian Casualties

Hamas achieved a huge success on October 17, when an uncertain number of Palestinian civilians died in an explosion at Gaza’s Al-Ahli Hospital. Much of the world erupted in outrage against Israel when Hamas blamed it and said that more than 500 civilians had been killed. This was one of only two major successes for Hamas in this war so far, the first being the surprise attack that kicked the conflict off, in which Hamas killed over 1,300 Israelis, raped many women, and took over 150 hostages.

Let’s set aside for a moment what actually happened at the hospital. First, consider this strange question: How can mass death of Palestinian civilians count as a Hamas success? The answer is that Hamas’s strategy hinges on producing such casualties and blaming Israel for them. This helps clarify why Hamas started this war.

Hamas, an Islamist group, describes itself as the arm of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. It is the religiously extreme vanguard of the Palestinian revolution, aspiring to destroy Israel and “liberate” Palestine on the way to reviving an Islamic caliphate.

From Hamas’s perspective, its revolution is in danger.

Egypt made peace with Israel in 1979. Jordan did so in 1994. The Abraham Accords countries — Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan and the United Arab Emirates — normalized relations with Israel in 2020. And Saudi Arabia appears on the verge of doing so soon. These developments contradict the notion that the Palestinian issue is the heart of Arab politics and the key to solving the region’s problems. The Arab states increasingly show disdain for Palestinian leaders, who are widely seen to be corrupt, incompetent, and retrograde. As a result, the Palestinian cause has lost sympathy and strength. A Saudi peace deal with Israel could deliver a death blow to Hamas’s idea of the Palestinian revolution.

Can Hamas leaders take the prospect of such a deal lying down? Obviously not. But what are their options? They have no economic leverage, no conventional military threat, and no diplomatic power. A large-scale attack on Israel is their only chance to salvage their revolution. They know they can’t defeat Israel altogether, but they might be able to achieve two aims: to spark mass uprisings by Arabs and Muslims in Israel, the region, and the world, and to bring down on Israel’s head a torrent of denunciation from non-Arabs and non-Muslims around the world.

That is Hamas’s best hope of derailing a Saudi–Israeli peace deal, and thus of saving its cause. It would please Iran, which is Hamas’s patron, and it would establish that Hamas, not the Palestinian Authority, is the Palestinians’ true leader.

But all of this hinges on outraging public opinion in the Arab world and around the rest of the globe. That’s why Hamas invented its unprecedented strategy. It is not merely using Palestinian civilians as human shields. Rather, it maximizing civilian casualties among its own people. This is brand-new in the history of war — and it is an innovation that the world should discourage, not reward.

Hamas leaders know that when they attack Israel, they require it to defend itself. They have ensured that, in doing so, Israel must do harm to Palestinian civilians. They have arranged this systematically over years by placing rocket launchers, ammunition stocks, command centers. and personnel in and under schools, commercial offices, apartment buildings, and hospitals. This guarantees that Palestinian civilians will suffer damage and death even though Israel does not target civilians and, like the United States, takes rigorous measures to prevent civilian casualties.

Which brings us back to the Al-Ahli Hospital. When the explosion occurred there, news outlets worldwide reported that the cause was an Israeli airstrike against the hospital, and that 500 or more Palestinian civilians had been killed. Large pro-Hamas crowds rallied angrily in Amman, Beirut, Tehran, and elsewhere around the world. U.S. officials told Americans not to visit Lebanon and closed a diplomatic post in Turkey. Jordan’s foreign minister announced that Arab leaders would refuse to attend a summit meeting with President Biden that had been scheduled in Amman.

Hours after the explosion, investigations by Israeli and American officials determined that Hamas’s casualty figures were too high, the explosion had happened in a parking lot, not the hospital itself, and the culprit was a Palestinian group, not Israel. What caused the explosion, President Biden said, was an “errant rocket fired by a terrorist group.” But the false accusation against Israel had already served its purpose. Hamas leaders were implementing their strategy. To Hamas, it doesn’t matter whether Palestinian civilian casualties are real or just perceived, as long as they produce anti-Israel fury.

The perverse strategy of harming Israel by harming Palestinian civilians is bad for Israel but worse for the Palestinians. If people around the world grasped that Hamas aims to maximize, not minimize, harm to its own civilians, they would assign blame to Hamas, not Israel. People who want to protect civilians during wartime should refuse to play the role assigned them in Hamas’s strategy, which would then fail and be abandoned.

https://www.hudson.org/terrorism/hamas-strategy-depends-maximizing-palestinian-civilian-casualties-douglas-feith#:~:text=National%20Review-,Hamas's%20Strategy%20Depends%20on%20Maximizing%20Palestinian%20Civilian%20Casualties,conflict%20in%20a%20different%20light.

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #733 on: November 04, 2023, 06:42:17 AM »
How Hamas uses hospitals as shields during war

The terror group's use of medical facilities as military sites in contravention of international law has been documented for years.

Hamas has commanded a network of tunnels and terror infrastructure in the Gaza Strip since it took control there in 2007. The Iranian-backed Palestinian terrorist organization uses civilian areas, including hospitals, to store and launch rockets and spread propaganda. In violation of international law, Hamas also uses hospitals to hide command centers and shield operatives.

Firing rockets from near hospitals is Hamas doctrine

Storing weapons near civilian sites, including hospitals, is part of Hamas’s doctrine. A NATO report examining Hamas activities between 2008 and 2014 found that they fire “rockets, artillery, and mortars from or in proximity to heavily populated civilian areas, often from or near facilities which should be protected.” Journalists from numerous media outlets, including the Financial Times, have provided eyewitness testimony of rockets launched from near hospitals.

Hamas built a command center underneath Shifa hospital

For years, Hamas has been using a bunker underneath Dar Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest hospital in Gaza, as a base of military operations. During the 2009 conflict between Israel and Hamas, Israeli intelligence officials suspected the hospital was being used for cover. According to the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, Hamas “closed off some of the departments, stationed armed guards and closely examined everyone in the hospital. … Ismail Haniyeh, head of the de facto Hamas administration, set up his headquarters in the hospital’s burn ward.” Hamas has also insisted on conducting interviews in Shifa’s courtyard, using wounded patients as props for propaganda.

Hamas has hidden under Shifa since 2007

In 2007, a doctor in Shifa Hospital said, “The medical staff are suffering from fear and terror, particularly of the Hamas fighters, who are in every corner of the hospital.” Former Israeli intelligence chief Avi Dichter said in 2009 that Hamas commanders even at times wear doctor’s robes. The same year, PBS said it “reached a doctor in Gaza who believes Hamas officials are hiding either in the basement or in a separate underground area underneath the hospital.” By 2014, the hospital had become a “de-facto” command center for Hamas.

Journalists have documented the use of the hospital by Hamas over the years. One foreign journalist said Hamas’s use of Shifa is an open secret, but reporters in Gaza are refuse to report about it out of fear for their personal safety.

Hamas used hospitals in its 2014 war on Israel

In 2014, the conflict between Israel and Hamas spotlighted how Hamas made use of hospitals as part of its strategy. “In Hamas’s world, hospitals are command centers, ambulances are transport vehicles and medics are human shields,” the Israel Defense Forces said. This was a flagrant violation of international law.

Hamas used al-Wafa Hospital for military purposes

Al-Wafa Hospital in the Shajaiyeh neighborhood of Gaza City was turned into a command center, rocket-launching site and observation post, according to the IDF in 2014. “Hamas repeatedly opened fire from hospital windows and [launched] anti-tank missiles from the premises. Hamas deliberately and cynically turned the hospital into a legitimate military target.”

When the IDF carried out a precision airstrike near the hospital, it first called to warn their administrators. Video released during the 2014 conflict showed Hamas launching rockets next to the hospital. The IDF claimed the hospital has been “a hotbed of terrorists activities, with gun and anti-tank missile fire originating from the site.”

Hamas uses hospitals for propaganda

On Oct. 18, 2023, a rocket fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad struck a parking lot near Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City. Hamas rushed to blame Israel, claiming that more than 500 had been killed. Investigations by Israel, U.S. intelligence and major media concluded that the claims by Hamas were false. Hamas used the incident to blame Israel.

The manipulation behind the al-Ahli Hospital incident is part of the wider media war by Hamas to use civilians in Gaza to score points. This includes inflating death tolls in Gaza and spreading misinformation.

Hamas commits abuses at hospitals

A 2007 Human Rights Watch report recounted how Hamas executed a rival Fatah member and his two sons at a hospital in Beit Hanun. In 2008, The New York Times reported in gory detail how Hamas murdered six suspected collaborators in a 24-hour span. In 2014, Palestinian reporter Radjaa Abu Dagga said he was taken for questioning by Hamas to Al-Shifa hospital. His passport was taken and he was prohibited from leaving the Gaza Strip.

Hamas interrogates and tortures at hospitals

Fatah also accused Hamas of using the hospital’s x-ray department as a prison and interrogation room. Amnesty International wrote in 2015 that civilians were “interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa Hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of ‘collaboration’ died in custody.”

Hamas also uses ambulances for terrorism

Hamas has also used ambulances during the course of the war as part of its operations. The use of ambulances not only denies civilians who are injured the use of the ambulance but also puts at risk medical workers if terrorists use the ambulance in the course of their activities.

https://nationalpost.com/news/hamas-hospitals-israel

ProudVirgin69

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #734 on: November 04, 2023, 06:56:38 AM »
Rocket attacks fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip, 2001-2021:



Rocket attacks fired at Israel from the Gaza Strip, 2001-2021:



Wow, that’s an impressive graph.  Surely this massive volume of rockets must have resulted in a large Israeli casualty count, right?

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #735 on: November 04, 2023, 07:12:32 AM »
What is a human shield and how has Hamas been accused of using them?

The international criminal court defines the war crime of using human shields as “utilising the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations”.

One interpretation of this is that it would be a war crime to fire weapons and to position bases in proximity to heavily populated civilian areas, in particular near facilities that should be protected according to the Geneva conventions, including schools, hospitals or mosques.

Anecdotal and other evidence does suggest that Hamas and other factions have used civilian objects including hospitals and schools. Guardian journalists in 2014 encountered armed men inside one hospital, and sightings of senior Hamas leaders inside the Shifa hospital have been documented.

During the 2014 conflict the UN reported weapons were found inside two UN schools and there have been numerous reports of Palestinian armed factions in Gaza firing rockets and other weapons from close to protected civilian locations. It is also clear that Hamas has operated from residential buildings.

Hamas’s attitude towards civilians during conflict in Gaza often appears cynical at best. After five conflicts with Israel since 2008, Hamas is well aware of the high potential for civilian deaths in fighting with Israeli forces – and has instrumentalised those fatalities in its messaging to the world.

In statements over the years Hamas has made clear it sees the civilian death toll as inevitable and useful.

In 2014, the Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhari told al-Aqsa TV: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/human-shield-israel-claim-hamas-command-centre-under-hospital-palestinian-civilian-gaza-city

Phantom Spunker

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #736 on: November 04, 2023, 07:22:17 AM »
Wow, that’s an impressive graph.  Surely this massive volume of rockets must have resulted in a large Israeli casualty count, right?

He's citing articles written by Douglas Feith, the infamous Jewish lobbyist (on the board of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) and neoconservative warmonger who is often described as being 'the architect of the Iraq war.' He was part of the Bush administration, and the group who created a non-existent link between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda, then distributed dubious intelligence assessments that contradicted official CIA reports.

General Tommy Franks once described him as 'the dumbest fucking guy on the planet.' He's also been under consideration for investigation of possible war crimes since 2009. Not really surprising Feith is trying to exculpate Israel from the crime of bombing a hospital.

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #737 on: November 04, 2023, 07:29:18 AM »
I try to disregard most of the stupid links and conspiracy theories posted by the familiar nematodes of the forum, but some of these really make me shake my head in disbelief.

It’s as though some of you are worried that you're going to get called a 'libturd' for stating that Israel is deliberately and unjustly bombing a civilian population and guaranteeing a rise of terrorism around the world. What is it that we are so fond of saying? Facts don't care about feelings? Then grow some balls and state the facts. You're not the ones being paid or blackmailed to regurgitate bullshit, so feel free to remove your jingoist blinkers and look at things outside of an insular Democrat vs Republican framework. There's a whole world out there.

Not to personally attack Thin Lizzy, but to focus on one example of an otherwise decent poster, as far as I can recall, making some of the most absurd points I've ever read here.

Thin Lizzy, and I'm sure he's not alone, wants to derogate from a peremptory norm of international law and murder civilians on the basis of the victims being poor and less successful than Israel economically—as an occupied state under unlawful blockade, without control over their resources, let's not forget.

The indigenous population are therefore morally irrelevant and anyone defending them is obviously doing so out of a pathological desire to support 'leftist' ideologies like international law and basic rights, haha.

These arguments, if one is even willing to call them that, are utterly incoherent. I am genuinely baffled as to why someone would defenestrate every ounce of integrity merely to excuse the inexcusable and avoid being categorized as some sort of BLM-supporting kiddie fiddler in a dress and high heels.

This is not a particularly complex issue. Certainly not with regard to understanding history and current intent.

As stated in the UNCTAD report, in 1967, when Israel occupied the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, it 'annexed Palestinian markets in these areas into its own economy, in a selective, unequal and asymmetrical manner.' Prior to the occupation, it was a lower-middle-income economy. Of course they are going to be performing terribly across economic growth indicators, lol.

As to the supposedly erroneous labelling of genocide, again, look at the facts.

Over the past few weeks, the Health Ministry in Gaza (which is known to be reliable) reported approximately 9200 people killed, at least 3800 of them being children.

Israel is not even attempting to hide its genocidal intent. Distinction, proportionality, and military necessity are fundamental principles governing conduct in war, and Israel has completely disregarded them in favor of quoting biblical scripture as they bomb civilians and destroy Gaza's infrastructure.

So, who is warning about potential genocide? Well, over 800 scholars and practitioners of international law, conflict studies and genocide studies have signed a public statement warning of the possibility of genocide being perpetrated in Gaza. Signatories include prominent Holocaust and genocide studies scholars.

Hundreds of USAID officials have signed a letter calling on the Biden administration to push for 'an immediate ceasefire and cessation of hostilities.' It also called for the US to join the international community in 'holding all parties, including the State of Israel, to international law.'

United Nations human rights official, Craig Mokhiber, resigned over what he described as a 'text-book case of genocide' in Gaza.

Josh Paul, the now former director of congressional and public affairs for the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs has resigned over the Biden administration’s 'blind support for one side', which was leading to policy decisions that were 'short-sighted, destructive, unjust and contradictory to the very values we publicly espouse.'

Various UN special rapporteurs have called for an immediate ceasefire and said that the Palestinian people 'are at grave risk of genocide.'

Bolivia has cut official ties with Israel over its disproportionate use of force. Mexico, Brazil, Colombia and Chile called for a ceasefire, with the latter two recalling their ambassadors. Pakistan's upper house of parliament just passed a unanimous resolution condemning Israel's war crimes. Russia called for a ceasefire. China called for a ceasefire. The African Union called for a ceasefire. The Arab states have obviously called for a ceasefire. It goes on and on:  most of the world is calling for an immediate ceasefire and for humanitarian aid to be delivered to the dying civilian population. Israel has ignored them.

Prosecuting war crimes (e.g. collective punishment, genocide, etc.) under international law can be particularly difficult due to the complexities involved (such as proving specific intent, among other things). Justifying these crimes, however, especially by citing birth rates and other such nonsense, is untenable, embarrassing, and those attempting to do so are simply divorced from reality.

Blah blah blah. They attacked a country with a much bigger and stronger military and now they’re gonna bitch and call for a ceasefire when that country hits back.


And when I hear time and time again about genocide, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to point out that the Palestinian population is growing,  life expectancy is increasing, and the birth rates are very high.

These are facts not opinions.

Now, here’s an opinion. Had the Palestinians just worked with the Jews they would probably be much better off, benefiting from being next door to such a strong growing economy, but Sand Dindus gonna Sand Dindu.

It’s all bullshit anyway. There have been several wars taking place in the past five years: Syria, Yemen, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Ethiopia and others but I don’t hear a peep from the left about those. What’s so special about this particular group of people?



Tapeworm

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #738 on: November 04, 2023, 07:42:01 AM »
Quote
Israel does not target civilians and, like the United States, takes rigorous measures to prevent civilian casualties.



False as tranny tits but...

Why are these two countries in the same sentence? I bet Sweden doesn't target civilians either. Or Bolivia. What are the odds, out of all the countries who don't target civilians, the US and Israel are like peas in a pod according to the author.

It doesn't at all come.off as propaganda hoping to make you think these two entirely separate countries share some unique bond.

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #739 on: November 04, 2023, 07:58:47 AM »
What visual evidence shows about the Gaza hospital blast

Videos analyzed by The Post reveal that rockets were launched from Gaza in the direction of the hospital 44 seconds before an explosion there.

Fighters in Gaza launched a barrage of rockets toward Israel and in the direction of al-Ahli Hospital 44 seconds before an explosion there that killed at least 100 people, according to a visual analysis by The Washington Post.

Video obtained from Israeli television channel Keshet 12 News allowed The Post to geolocate the origin of the barrage to a point southwest of the hospital in Gaza City, matching the rough location the Israeli military has alleged was the launch site of a misfired rocket that it said landed on the hospital grounds. Experts said rockets from that barrage would have been able to reach the hospital in time for the explosion.

The analysis of that and other videos, in addition to expert review of imagery of the blast site, provides circumstantial evidence that could bolster the contention by Israel and the U.S. government that a stray rocket launched by a Palestinian armed group was responsible for the Oct. 17 explosion.

At the same time, no visual evidence has emerged showing a rocket hitting the hospital grounds, and the evidence reviewed by The Post does not rule out the possibility that an unseen projectile fired from somewhere else struck the hospital grounds.

None of the more than two dozen experts consulted by The Post was able to say with certainty what kind of weapon struck the hospital grounds or who fired it. But munitions experts agreed that the damage at the hospital was consistent with a rocket strike. They said it was not consistent with an airstrike, which would have caused much greater destruction, or with an artillery strike, which would have left substantial fragments and probably not caused the massive fireball seen in videos.

In addition, The Post’s analysis found that a key video filmed and aired by Al Jazeera, which the Israeli and U.S. governments have cited as evidence that a rocket failed and landed on the hospital grounds, instead shows a projectile launching from a location miles away in Israel, near an apparent Iron Dome air-defense battery. Experts said that the widely circulated video probably showed an Iron Dome interceptor missile that collided with a rocket more than three miles from the hospital and most likely had nothing to do with the hospital explosion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/

Phantom Spunker

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #740 on: November 04, 2023, 08:01:28 AM »
Blah blah blah. They attacked a country with a much bigger and stronger military and now they’re gonna bitch and call for a ceasefire when that country hits back.


And when I hear time and time again about genocide, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to point out that the Palestinian population is growing,  life expectancy is increasing, and the birth rates are very high.

These are facts not opinions.

Now, here’s an opinion. Had the Palestinians just worked with the Jews they would probably be much better off, benefiting from being next door to such a strong growing economy, but Sand Dindus gonna Sand Dindu.

It’s all bullshit anyway. There have been several wars taking place in the past five years: Syria, Yemen, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Ethiopia and others but I don’t hear a peep from the left about those. What’s so special about this particular group of people?

Haha, when 'blah blah blah', 'sand dindus', and 'the left' is the caliber of response, there's obviously no point in attempting further discussion, so let me just end it stating that when approximately 10,000 people have just been bombed to death indiscriminately, it is not 'perfectly reasonable' to point out that the Palestinian population is growing. It's moronic.

So too is it moronic to think that an illegally occupied population, who have been the victims of a deliberate ethnic cleansing policy since Israel's inception, should have just worked with them to boost their economy.

As to your stubborn refusal to view this as anything other than an American Left vs Right issue, I am not from the US and I've been to a few of those countries you’ve listed. I doubt anyone sees this as some sort of opportunity to champion the Palestinians alone. It is about protecting basic principles of international law, human rights, and holding your government to account when they are not only lying to you, but acting against your interests once again by murdering thousands of children and risking the security of your country.

joswift

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #741 on: November 04, 2023, 11:47:49 AM »
they are just creating another "war on terror"

People have stopped watching, terrorists seem to have disappeared in the West

Time to stir the hornets nest and kick the eternal war machine into life to boost the Western Arms manufacturers coffers

illuminati

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #742 on: November 04, 2023, 03:20:15 PM »






And you believe everything Israel / US / MSM say  ::)
Did you really ;earn Fuck all from the China Virus ScamDemic
& how Folk were Played & Blatantly Lied to.   ::)

Finding out the Truth & Facts of what is going on isn't by listening
to what the Talking heads & MSM are Saying.

Griffith

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #743 on: November 04, 2023, 09:17:51 PM »

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #744 on: November 04, 2023, 11:36:11 PM »
Haha, when 'blah blah blah', 'sand dindus', and 'the left' is the caliber of response, there's obviously no point in attempting further discussion, so let me just end it stating that when approximately 10,000 people have just been bombed to death indiscriminately, it is not 'perfectly reasonable' to point out that the Palestinian population is growing. It's moronic.

So too is it moronic to think that an illegally occupied population, who have been the victims of a deliberate ethnic cleansing policy since Israel's inception, should have just worked with them to boost their economy.

As to your stubborn refusal to view this as anything other than an American Left vs Right issue, I am not from the US and I've been to a few of those countries you’ve listed. I doubt anyone sees this as some sort of opportunity to champion the Palestinians alone. It is about protecting basic principles of international law, human rights, and holding your government to account when they are not only lying to you, but acting against your interests once again by murdering thousands of children and risking the security of your country.

Muslims ruled by the  sword for over 1000 years. Did you give a fuck about international law then? Pretty much every piece of land on the planet has been taken forcefully. Why is that you have such an obsession with this particular group of people? Because it’s a pet issue of the left. 21-year-old college dip shits who have  never done anything in life spend the whole day obsessing about these people.

The reason you’re so butthurt is because I called out your bullshit.




Phantom Spunker

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #745 on: November 05, 2023, 02:00:09 AM »
Muslims ruled by the  sword for over 1000 years. Did you give a fuck about international law then? Pretty much every piece of land on the planet has been taken forcefully. Why is that you have such an obsession with this particular group of people? Because it’s a pet issue of the left. 21-year-old college dip shits who have  never done anything in life spend the whole day obsessing about these people.

The reason you’re so butthurt is because I called out your bullshit.

Haha, you called me on my bullshit? Sorry, I must have missed that. Please cite it again so I can address it for you. Pretty sure I initiated the dialogue by addressing your sub-par level of argumentation. Nice attempt at historical revisionism, though. You've clearly learnt from the best.

If being genuinely surprised and embarrassed by your childlike reasoning ability and willingness to defend the murder of women and children is 'butthurt', then yes, feel free to call it that. But try to address the substance of what I wrote as opposed to blindly clinging to the conclusion that everyone who disagrees with you is a 'leftist.'

I'm sorry I'm not able to travel back in time and give 11th-century caliphs a lecture on Enlightenment values. I can only deal with what's in front of me now, though I feel that would have been an easier task than trying to convince you of your hypocrisy.

Your comments in this thread are intellectually vacuous and full of contradictions, given your stances on other issues. All you've demonstrated is that you are happy to rant and rave for years when your government is violating your individual right to freedom, but unconcerned when they do it to people you don't like.

Such is your aversion to being wrong, you'd rather support state terrorism and dismiss every objection to it as quixotic left-wing fantasizing. Are the 800-odd academics and legal experts who signed the petition I linked all leftists? How about all of the politicians across the world who condemn this? All of the UN officials? All of the ex-military personnel? How about all of the IR realists who believe that blind support for Israel as they massacre a population is harmful to America and the UK?

You are every bit as blinded by tribalism and propaganda as the college kids you despise, only you don't have the extenuating benefit of youthful ignorance on your side. You're simply just terrified that your views on one issue might happen to align with someone who votes Democrat. There is nothing weaker than a man who's too scared to speak the truth. Be better, Thin Lizzy. It's not too late.

Phantom Spunker

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #746 on: November 05, 2023, 02:01:50 AM »

what could be the reason for being expelled so many times ?

Jesus, these guys have been expelled more times than a young Brian Hankins  :D.

Dalnet

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #747 on: November 05, 2023, 02:13:12 AM »
These conflicts are all so tiresome.

Here's to hoping the West isn't dragged into this if it escalates with Iran and others jumping in to fight Israel.

Kwon

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #748 on: November 05, 2023, 02:40:59 AM »
These conflicts are all so tiresome.

Here's to hoping the West isn't dragged into this if it escalates with Iran and others jumping in to fight Israel.

I want it to escalate to such degree that most of the middle-east gets wiped out

I have no bone in this fight and prefer to analyze it from afar

Unfortunately there will be a lot of "fugees" coming from ME to Swe
Q

Gym Rat

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Re: Israel Attacked - by Hamas - Discussion?
« Reply #749 on: November 05, 2023, 03:12:02 AM »
Haha, when 'blah blah blah', 'sand dindus', and 'the left' is the caliber of response, there's obviously no point in attempting further discussion, so let me just end it stating...

You ever think he never wanted discussion with a looney leftist??