Gut Control

[LuciusFox]

And then it totally disappeared at the 80 olympia 
I don't remember the story about mentzer in 79 but his gut problem can't be compared with the kind the pros experience today.
Didn't he over eat after the prejudging or something like that?

 It didn't disappear in 1980, he just held it in or ate differently. I think he did overeat and it caused the gut. I don't know how bad it was compared to today's guts, though.

[sgt. d]

maybe ronnie doesn't like ab exercises

[timfogarty]

I'm serious about Mentzer having the gut. ... I'm not going to post a pic. You can read about it yourself.

You didn't say he had a gut.  On multiple occasions you said he had a gh gut, implying just like bodybuilders do today.  He did not.  Since you're making the claim it's up to you to provide evidence.   Your position is that bodybuilders have always had bloated stomachs, so therefore it is not a recent phenomena due to the current drug regime.  There is no evidence to support your claim.   There are no photos of top bodybuilders in competition shape with bloated stomachs prior to the late 1980s or early 1990s.  Now most top bodybuilders have bloated stomachs of varying degress.

1978

1979

1980

1981

[LuciusFox]

You didn't say he had a gut.  On multiple occasions you said he had a gh gut, implying just like bodybuilders do today.  He did not.  Since you're making the claim it's up to you to provide evidence.   Your position is that bodybuilders have always had bloated stomachs, so therefore it is not a recent phenomena due to the current drug regime.  There is no evidence to support your claim.   There are no photos of top bodybuilders in competition shape with bloated stomachs prior to the late 1980s or early 1990s.  Now most top bodybuilders have bloated stomachs of varying degress.

 You may not have seen the evidence, but it certainly exists. Guts are not a new thing. Haven't you heard of roid gut? You claimed that only modern bodybuilders had a gut. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

[Dingleberry]

Tim, give it up man. Lucius will argue until the sun goes down, that's why I said "whatever" in my post. I and everyone else who knows about gear knows your right.

I bet he'd even argue a performance drug question with a professional bodybuilder 

[LuciusFox]

You didn't say he had a gut.  On multiple occasions you said he had a gh gut, implying just like bodybuilders do today.  He did not.  Since you're making the claim it's up to you to provide evidence.   Your position is that bodybuilders have always had bloated stomachs, so therefore it is not a recent phenomena due to the current drug regime.  There is no evidence to support your claim.   There are no photos of top bodybuilders in competition shape with bloated stomachs prior to the late 1980s or early 1990s.  Now most top bodybuilders have bloated stomachs of varying degress.

1978

1979

1980

1981

 I can hold in my gut, too

[Dingleberry]

You didn't say he had a gut.  On multiple occasions you said he had a gh gut, implying just like bodybuilders do today.  He did not.  Since you're making the claim it's up to you to provide evidence.   Your position is that bodybuilders have always had bloated stomachs, so therefore it is not a recent phenomena due to the current drug regime.  There is no evidence to support your claim.   There are no photos of top bodybuilders in competition shape with bloated stomachs prior to the late 1980s or early 1990s.  Now most top bodybuilders have bloated stomachs of varying degress.

1978

1979

1980

1981

[LuciusFox]

Tim, give it up man. Lucius will argue until the sun goes down, that's why I said "whatever" in my post. I and everyone else who knows about gear knows your right.

I bet he'd even argue a performance drug question with a professional bodybuilder 

 I would because I know more about this stuff than a lot of pros.

[timfogarty]

You may not have seen the evidence, but it certainly exists. Guts are not a new thing. Haven't you heard of roid gut?

roid gut was due to gh.  like most things regarding performance enhancing drugs, it was not common knowledge that bodybuilders were using gh and insulin until about 10 years after the fact.

You claimed that only modern bodybuilders had a gut. The burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

I can show you thousands of photos of bodybuilders (I suggest you start with the magazine covers at my website) from the pre gh era.  all you got to do is find one to prove me wrong

[timfogarty]

I can hold in my gut, too

that's because you don't have gh gut

[LuciusFox]

roid gut was due to gh.  like most things regarding performance enhancing drugs, it was not common knowledge that bodybuilders were using gh and insulin until about 10 years after the fact.

I can show you thousands of photos of bodybuilders (I suggest you start with the magazine covers at my website) from the pre gh era.  all you got to do is find one to prove me wrong

 And how many posts would I have to give up making while doing that? Unless you are calling Arnold a liar, I suggest that you admit that Mentzer had a gut. This is your last chance.

[LuciusFox]

that's because you don't have gh gut

 Maybe a number of pros with guts don't have gh guts. That's what I'm saying. gh isn't the only thing that can cause a gut.

[Dingleberry]

And how many posts would I have to give up making while doing that? Unless you are calling Arnold a liar, I suggest that you admit that Mentzer had a gut. This is your last chance.

Don't start smiling now. I suggest you find some evidence to back up your claim since you know more about performance drugs than many pro's. 

[timfogarty]

Unless you are calling Arnold a liar

I didn't vote for him.

[LuciusFox]

 I'll concede that Mentzer had no permanent gut of any kind, but that's not what I said in the first place. I said he showed up to a contest with a gut, a.k.a. distended stomach.

 And yes, I do know more about drugs than many pros. I've been reading about them on message boards for years.

[Dingleberry]

I'll concede that Mentzer had no permanent gut of any kind, but that's not what I said in the first place. I said he showed up to a contest with a gut, a.k.a. distended stomach.

 And yes, I do know more about drugs than many pros. I've been reading about them on message boards for years.

LOL. Yeah.

[LuciusFox]

 Fine. I'm just some dumb loser who lives in his parents' basement. I'm 160 pounds and weak and pathetic Is that what you wanted to hear?

[Dingleberry]

Fine. I'm just some dumb loser who lives in his parents' basement. I'm 160 pounds and weak and pathetic Is that what you wanted to hear?

No, not at all. Reading about things on the Internet doesn't make you an expert, living a situation makes you an expert. I just suggest that you don't argue points that you're not an expert on when you're clearly arguing against an expert, or at least someone who has more real life experience with the subject at hand. 

[LuciusFox]

No, not at all. Reading about things on the Internet doesn't make you an expert, living a situation makes you an expert. I just suggest that you don't argue points that your not an expert on when you're clearly arguing against an expert, or at least someone who has more real life experience with the subject at hand. 

  I get your point, but I don't think anyone has conducted enough studies to know what's really going on with bodybuilders. After all, Dorian's gut is completely gone now, which shouldn't be the case if he had permanently enlarged intestines.

[timfogarty]

After all, Dorian's gut is completely gone now, which shouldn't be the case if he had permanently enlarged intestines.

which means, once again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

if "gh gut" is due to the growth of internal organs, normal catabolic activity would reduce their size over time, but it would take a long time

if "gh gut" is due to intra abdominal fat, fat between the organs withing the abdomen, due to insulin sensitivity, then that could certainly dissipate once you stop using the insulin, but again, it would take a long time

[Dingleberry]

  I get your point, but I don't think anyone has conducted enough studies to know what's really going on with bodybuilders. After all, Dorian's gut is completely gone now, which shouldn't be the case if he had permanently enlarged intestines.

Oh really?

[timfogarty]

And yes, I do know more about drugs than many pros. I've been reading about them on message boards for years.

turn off the computer and go out and live life

[LuciusFox]

which means, once again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

if "gh gut" is due to the growth of internal organs, normal catabolic activity would reduce their size over time, but it would take a long time

if "gh gut" is due to intra abdominal fat, fat between the organs withing the abdomen, due to insulin sensitivity, then that could certainly dissipate once you stop using the insulin, but again, it would take a long time

 The loss in size of the guts happens as soon as the bodies shrink down. It doesn't take a long time. You don't know what you are talking about. You're about as credible as a Muscletech scientist.

[LuciusFox]

Oh really?

 That's not a gh gut It's just an overdeveloped abdomen.

[LuciusFox]

turn off the computer and go out and live life

 I live life all the time, Mr. Expert