DC Logg: Doggcrapp Training - is it all that it's cracked up to be?

[natural al]

Ok I see what you are doing. Do what works. Right now instead of switching my my days I always keep chest,shoulder,tri,back workouts on monday/friday and legs on wednesday. My legs are overpowering thats why I am working  my upperbody double time.

again, do what works..I wouldn't recommend what you're doing but hey, only you know what's best for you.  Too bad you're banned over at IM, I'd like to see some of thier feedback about this split, I guess I'd have to see pics of you're "overpowering" legs to make a suggestion...always remember you can never have calfs that are too big so maybe cycle out a strong bodypart and cycle in your calves so you could do:

day 1-chest, shoulders, tri's, back

day 2-bi's, forearms, quads, hams and calves

day 3 same as day one

day 4-chest, shoulders, calfs, back

day 5, bi's forearms, tri's quads and hams

day 6-chest, shoulders, calfs and back

again, I don't recommend this but if you have your mind set I'd do something like this....unless you're calves are outstanding.

This is real wierd, I've never heard of anyone doing this type of split.....I don't like it...don't like it at all...are you sure you wanna set up you're routine like this?  It's not making sense to me, I'm not saying they are not but I don't remember your legs being that good where you could skip em like you want to.  I would rethink this strategy if I were you.

[DOGGCRAPP]

I have no problem at all with you doing 2 sets on t-bars Natural Al....I have alot of trainees i do the same thing with on all back thickness movements. Heck i have some guys do 10 reps and then 15 reps on their second set....its just kind of an individualistic thing and when something isnt done with rest pauses I usually just give the guy the choice to do 2 sets of different reps

[natural al]

I have no problem at all with you doing 2 sets on t-bars Natural Al....I have alot of trainees i do the same thing with on all back thickness movements. Heck i have some guys do 10 reps and then 15 reps on their second set....its just kind of an individualistic thing and when something isnt done with rest pauses I usually just give the guy the choice to do 2 sets of different reps

I would like to think that programs give you some breathing room, I always see guys writing "that's not DC" in discussion groups and the simple fact is that I don't think you'd loose your mind if someone did something a little out of the norm and got results from it.  Like I said earlier if my current leg or back workouts don't work for me then I'll just go back to what I was doing before which I think still falls within the realm of DC.  20 reps on quads and back thickness is a killer but I got results....there's no way I'm gonna say "well 20 reppers arent DC so I'm not doing them" and sit in a rut when I could be getting better.

[Bluto]

why would your biceps get bigger if you train them twice a week

[natural al]

Sounds like Dog Crap

so does your post, slick.

[The Freakshow]

so does your post, slick.

 

[davie]

Hey guys, havnt really read all this post but am i right in thinking that DC is sinilar to HIT in that u perform one set, although it is a rest pause set?

davie

[davie]

You never fail to entertain me alexx. i read on site that u perform 1 rest pause set. i came to u apparent ' super' experienced lifters for clarification and education, not attempts at humour that should have been better thought out if they were to be hard hitting and not complete failures.

davie

[alexxx]

You never fail to entertain me alexx. i read on site that u perform 1 rest pause set. i came to u apparent ' super' experienced lifters for clarification and education, not attempts at humour that should have been better thought out if they were to be hard hitting and not complete failures.

davie

Davie please read this: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?s=9f3df9f98734bae17c21b811eaffe4ff&t=16023

Should answer all of your questions. If something is not clarified then don't hesitate to ask.

Alexxx

[davie]

So if me and training partner wer giving this a shot as a change from our usual workouts. I could go with something like this:
MONDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Incline DB (11-15rp)
Military press (11-20rp-though i think clean and press would be awesome if done DC style,that would burn so might do that).
Closegrip pulldowns (11-15rp)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps).
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)

WEDNESDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
barbell curls (11-20rp)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)

FRIDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Flat DB press (11-15rp)
Lat raise done DC style (11-20rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
Dips (11-20rp)

FOLLOWING MONDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
HAck squat/front squat (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
SLDL (15-30rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)


AND SO ON........Is it ok that i have made up two slightly different routines, i thought that would be ok as the article said choose from the exercises?

Couple of questions....1.do u think that is enough volume for legs,biggest muscles in body and its gettin 2 straight sets done either once or twice a week??
2.Also do u think it would be ok as i mentioned above about doing clean & press, that exercise just asks to be done RP style lol?
3.I was wandering when u all decided to up the weight, if i was for example doing fron pulldowns (11-15rp) and failed at 8 on 1 set, then stopped, then failed again after 4 more reps, then stopped then failed again after 3 more....i would have reached my 15 rep target in 3 attempts. Should i go by the logic that if i reach my rep target in 3 or less attempts then i should up the weight????And if it had taken me four or more attempts to get to 15 then i would stick with same weight next time?!

Im sorry for what will seem daft questions to those of u who are established with this routine, but these are question the article didnt answer and i wanted to clarify before deciding wether to start or not!!

davie

[natural al]

So if me and training partner wer giving this a shot as a change from our usual workouts. I could go with something like this:
MONDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Incline DB (11-15rp)
Military press (11-20rp-though i think clean and press would be awesome if done DC style,that would burn so might do that).
Closegrip pulldowns (11-15rp)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps).
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)

WEDNESDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
barbell curls (11-20rp)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)

FRIDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Flat DB press (11-15rp)
Lat raise done DC style (11-20rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
Dips (11-20rp)

FOLLOWING MONDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
HAck squat/front squat (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
SLDL (15-30rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)


AND SO ON........Is it ok that i have made up two slightly different routines, i thought that would be ok as the article said choose from the exercises?

Couple of questions....1.do u think that is enough volume for legs,biggest muscles in body and its gettin 2 straight sets done either once or twice a week??
2.Also do u think it would be ok as i mentioned above about doing clean & press, that exercise just asks to be done RP style lol?
3.I was wandering when u all decided to up the weight, if i was for example doing fron pulldowns (11-15rp) and failed at 8 on 1 set, then stopped, then failed again after 4 more reps, then stopped then failed again after 3 more....i would have reached my 15 rep target in 3 attempts. Should i go by the logic that if i reach my rep target in 3 or less attempts then i should up the weight????And if it had taken me four or more attempts to get to 15 then i would stick with same weight next time?!

Im sorry for what will seem daft questions to those of u who are established with this routine, but these are question the article didnt answer and i wanted to clarify before deciding wether to start or not!!

davie

your program is close and I think you get it for the most part.  Day one, if you want to be a stickler change the close grips to the 3rd movement so you hit chest, shoulders, tri's and then your back movements.  I'd also consider not doing DB movements, I'm doing them right now and I have a hard time getting the weights back into position, I train alone so that might not be an issue for you if you have a partner.  I've done the clean and press but my back is shot so I dropped them, I don't see any reason why you could not use them.    Day 2, again watch the order...I go bi's, forearms, calfs, quads and then hamstrings..you might be a little burnt if you do quads first.  Calfs are done differently than other bodyparts, I'll go into them if you want.  Day 3 is ok but I'd watch the lateral raises, remember you're trying to beat the logbook everytime so eventually your from will go out the window, it won't hurt to try them but just be careful...I tend to stick to pressing movements, I've tried lateral raises but my form went to shit after a few weeks.  Day 4, again watch your excercise order, try to keep things in the same order...I don't see anything for calves.

as far as your volume question goes...it's tricky to explain.  Doing one superheavy set for quads followed by a widowmaker does not sound like alot but if you use max weight for both it's a killer.  I'm leg pressing 855 for 6 reps and doing a 25 rep widowmaker almost immediatly after..next workout I'm going to do 875 for as many as possible and my WM weight will go up by 10lbs plus a static and a stretch.  It's a killer.  You have to be able to go to failure, not just to where you want to stop but go to the point where if you cannot do another rep, then do a static.  I set the stops on the legpress and I go until I crash..it might be 4 reps it might be 8 but I know I left it all in the gym and next time I'm gonna beat that weight or rep total or I'll die trying. 

Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use.  Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12.  The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up.  It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[davie]

Cheers buddy, that helps alot.
Explaining calves a bit better would help....ALSO iv never really 100% understood the static hold rule, i understand the extreme stretch (i think) but static holds?

QUOTE FROM NATURAL AL "Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use.  Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12.  The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up.  It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate."

When u say ur rest pause is 12 one week, 14 the next week etc, how many attempts did it take u to get to that rep of 12,14 etc????How many times have u had to stop and have 20 second break, or is that rep the 1st time u failed??

davie

[natural al]

Cheers buddy, that helps alot.
Explaining calves a bit better would help....ALSO iv never really 100% understood the static hold rule, i understand the extreme stretch (i think) but static holds?

QUOTE FROM NATURAL AL "Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use.  Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12.  The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up.  It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate."

When u say ur rest pause is 12 one week, 14 the next week etc, how many attempts did it take u to get to that rep of 12,14 etc????How many times have u had to stop and have 20 second break, or is that rep the 1st time u failed??

davie

statics are done at the end.  after you complete your last rep, rack the wieght and take a 10 second rest, unrack the weight and maybe go about 1/4 or so into the movement and hold for about 20-30 seconds or until you fail.

When i get 12 reps RP'd, that's the total number of reps I get after 3 RP's, it usually goes 7-3-2 or along those lines.

calves-start at the top of the movement, lower the weight slowly, about 5 seconds and hold in the stretched position for 15 seconds and then explode up..that's one rep..it's a killer if you do it right, use max weight and your calves will be screaming.

[Hedgehog]

davie, I think you should do the DC at least for three months from now.

Then tell us what you think of it, and decide if you want to continue with it.

YIP
Zack

[davie]

Kul kul natural al, think iv got all bases covered.
I  get what u mean, it takes u 3 rp's to get to 12 reps. i think i will keep a weight the same until it takes me 3 rp's to get to 15 reps (might look like 8,4,3, and once i can get 15 reps in 3 rp's il up the weight which will probs result in me taking 4 rp's to get to 15 reps to begin with ).... or mayb even 18 like you urself do?!

calves sound sore, cant wait to try them lol.

If u think i need to know anything else,dont hesitate to let me know!!

davie

[natural al]

Kul kul natural al, think iv got all bases covered.
I  get what u mean, it takes u 3 rp's to get to 12 reps. i think i will keep a weight the same until it takes me 3 rp's to get to 15 reps (might look like 8,4,3, and once i can get 15 reps in 3 rp's il up the weight which will probs result in me taking 4 rp's to get to 15 reps to begin with ).... or mayb even 18 like you urself do?!

calves sound sore, cant wait to try them lol.

If u think i need to know anything else,dont hesitate to let me know!!

davie

once you up the wieght it's ok to go back to 12 reps RP...you don't have to keep getting 15 or 18 as long as you beat the logbook in either weight or reps everything is cool.  Always go for 3 rest pause sets.

[davie]

OK kul chers mate....so after i up the weight, instead of doing 4 rp's and getting 15 reps, i should still only do 3 rp's and shhot for about 12 reps, then next time shoot for 13 or 14 reps, and keep trying to beat my past log book until i get 15 again in 3 rp's?!

davie

[natural al]

bingo.  Always 3 rest pause sets the weight you start with should let you get about 12-15 reps but when you get to a point where the reps are getting to high, like 18-20 you up the weight.  This doesn't mean you stop at 12 but that should be the lowest rep total you allow yourself otherwise it's too heavy.  Some guys like a higher rep range so you can fool around with that on some bodyparts...I keep my forearm work at 20-30 reps everything else falls into the 12-15 rep range.  There is some growing pains so take the time to learn the program and learn your body, not everything is set in stone, nothing is cookie cutter about this program.  Right now I'm trying to work with dumbbells in my program and It's not working as well as I would like, I'm moving some heavy iron but my reps are off and I have a really hard time getting the weight into position for the 2nd and 3rd RP...I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop them, I'd rather train the muscle than worry about getting everything right for the set.  It's a learning process, I was overly excited to work with the dumbbells since I have not had them for awhile, once I saw them I had to hit em, I'm using the 120's and they are awkward as hell so they're gone as of Monday, I learned as I went which is all any of us can do.  My first set usually went really well, 8-10 reps, 2nd set, if I could get the weight in place I could get 3-4 and I only got the 3rd set done a couple of time cause I just couldn't get the weight up and into position, the extra work required was wearing me out so bye-bye. 

[headhuntersix]

Well just started yesterday..jumped in and replaced our Leg day with the DC leg day....Loved the feeling. I would like more info on results from the stretch piece and some advice on the two week cruise or coast phase. I have not heard anybody mention either as far as results or a good routine to use on the cruise phase. Also when do u guys think it best to stretch..at the end of the workout or between sets. I'm on day 1 today..chest etc so i plan to do the stretches at the end.

[natural al]

stretching can be done either between sets or at the end of the workout, personally I do them between sets but I've heard Dante say that it can be done either or-I'm pretty sure he's said this so if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

A cruise phase is done once you find yourself burning out either mentally or physically.  There is no set routine for a cruise, you might do movements you want to try out, you might just keep the routine the same but do straight sets, you might do high reps...it's your call.

[headhuntersix]

Well figured i'd post since we are 3 1/2 weeks in. Progress has been steady. The hard part of the workout is figuring the weights to start with. You definitly have to drop ur working weight to get out all the reps. Once thats down u sorta enjoy the pain. I love the leg day the best. We are limited on some of the exercises we can do over here so it takes us along time to get through a workout but as we have progressed we have cut the time down. I plan to go six weeks and cruise for two. 1 week of high reps ..triple drops/pre exhaust work and then a max rep week to see where I am. I think it works pretty well especially if your current program has stagnated.

[natural al]

Well figured i'd post since we are 3 1/2 weeks in. Progress has been steady. The hard part of the workout is figuring the weights to start with. You definitly have to drop ur working weight to get out all the reps. Once thats down u sorta enjoy the pain. I love the leg day the best. We are limited on some of the exercises we can do over here so it takes us along time to get through a workout but as we have progressed we have cut the time down. I plan to go six weeks and cruise for two. 1 week of high reps ..triple drops/pre exhaust work and then a max rep week to see where I am. I think it works pretty well especially if your current program has stagnated.

post your dc workout...I'd take it easy on the cruise and wouldn't say I'm gonna blast for 6 weeks, blast until you start to overtrain or your poundages start to drop.

[headhuntersix]

I will post Monday.. i took it right from what seemed to be the base program that was printed here and on the site. I have noticed constant gains and alot of my nagging injuries have gone away due to th 3 rest days. I still think we may be doing some things wrong. We do day one on monday and repeat on friday then start day 2 on the next monday and repeat day 2 on friday and so on so every workout gets repeated twice in one week atleast once?

[egoatdoor]

It works, but you have to get the nutrition part of it right too. I've just finished my third week and I'm up 5 pounds in weight at a lower bodyfat%. Shoulders, tris, back and quads in particular are much bigger.

No matter what the program, nutrition is a much bigger part of the equation. What I have done, as suggested by Dante, was also increase my protein intake substantially.

[natural al]

the time I made my best gains on this program were when I just ate protien, protien, protien.   Tons of it, I pretty much lived to eat protien.   I bought these pre-cooked chicken breasts and hamburger patties and I'd bring those to work with me, whey protien shakes, lunchmeat, cheese, eggs, yogurt& cottage cheese and if I even thought that my protien intake was a little low I'd down a couple of double cheese burgers-no buns.  I went from 194-211ish in a very short time.  I'm upping my protien again but with a little less abandon this time.  I'm also doing morning cardio so it'll be interesting to see what happens.