Author Topic: Max-OT (Read 12928 times)

natural al · « **Reply #25 on:** September 14, 2006, 05:16:23 AM »

Quote from: Overload on September 13, 2006, 01:52:39 PM

I think the opposite...i believe that natural trainers NEED Max-ot type workouts. short, heavy and low volume.

i've been on both sides of the fence and max-ot worked great when i was 100% natural, clean and when "enhanced"...just my opinion of course but anyone i have trained over the years has responded VERY well to max-ot, juiced or lifetime natural.

i have two personal friends who have been lifting for about 2 years, 100% natural. i explained max-ot to them and trained a few weeks with them to show them the ropes and they thank me everytime we hang out. they have made impressive gains in the last 4 months by following it to the letter.

just my opinion...

excactly. It's my personal opinion that natural guys tend to grow better with this type of program, heavy, short and focused on recovery. the main porblem that I had with Max-Ot was that my joints hurt like hell, specifically my elbow joint..it was hard to describe and it might have been something that I was doing wrong. As long as you're weights are going up and you're working hard everything else should fall into place, training wise..diet is a whole nother story.

WOOO · « **Reply #26 on:** September 14, 2006, 03:16:15 PM »

anyway... maybe i'll have to give it a try....

stealth_swimmer · « **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:26:03 PM »

With those that have hurting elbows and such, you probably don't warm up well enough. Personally, I warm up with one set or two at most with a light weight that I can get 30-35 reps with but I will do 20-25 reps with it. If I feel I need another set, then I will rest about 1 minute then add a warm up set but that's usually it. For example, when warming up delts, I will do front-raises, lateral raises, bent-over laterals, sometimes I will do one set of dumbell presses and then I will do one warm up set of dumbell shrugs(cus I train traps right after delts and they usually stay warm throughout).

davie · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2006, 12:55:32 PM »

I couldnt really do max-ot even if i wanted to as i can only have 3 days i the gym due to rugby. Shame as i wanted to try it.

davie

pumpster · « **Reply #29 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:53:25 AM »

Quote from: Yev33 on July 07, 2006, 09:55:28 AM

I tried the Max-OT training for chest and triceps last night, by the 4th chest exercise my elbows were starting to hurt and I barely got a pump, my elbows never hurt before, and I usually go as low as 3 reps for compound movements. That Max-OT system reminds alot of the type of training Dorian Yates used, now I can see why he's had so many injuries.

This system makes sense to me for the most part, though it's nothing too new vs. reconfiguring existing (good) principles. There are a few potential cons that might be addressed, and the system made more effective & safer. The variations would be similar to Yates' mods to HIT:

-The low reps 4-6 are the main cause of joint problems. This is powerlifting training. IMO Max-OT would be better and more effective using moderate reps in either the 8-10 or 6-7 ranges (even 6-7 is too low, for some); try both. I believe and i think the majority of BBs believe, that moderate reps are the most effective for tissue development. That's completely aside from the lowered potential of injury from using moderate reps.

-Go to negative failure on one set/exercise using cheats, partials, etc. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to stress muscle overload while restricting the possibility of taking it further in some cases. The explanation given wasn't convincing either.

-Rests don't have to be longer than 1.5-2 minutes IMO. Longer than that does not increase reserves much, but DOES allow the area to cool down, thereby increasing injury potential.

-IMO pump IS indicative of effective training, when achieved within the context of reasonably heavy weight + reasonably brief rest times. No point in arguing about it, it's all opinion in the absence of conclusive research. 1.5-2 minute rest max. makes more sense to me-lowers injury potential by preventing excessive cooldown of the area by maintaining the pump.

-Weekly frequency can be increased to every 3-5 days if soreness and tiredness goes away. Whether this helps is entirely debatable; i think it does and there's no conclusive evidence to suggest that longer rests are somehow "necessary", despite the rhetoric. Same on the theory that a muscle starts to degenerate after 3 days or so and can/should be worked-i believe it but there's nothing conclusive either way.

pumpster · « **Reply #30 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:02:28 AM »

Quote

the main porblem that I had with Max-Ot was that my joints hurt like hell, specifically my elbow joint..it was hard to describe and it might have been something that I was doing wrong

It's the low reps with heavier weight coupled with longer rest times. Combining those two is the a time-tested recipe for injury, is fundamentally insane. Form was very likely not the issue, IMO.

Adjust any/all of these and the benefits of the program continue without the downsides.

Quote

even at near max wieght, 4-6 reps doesn't feel like I'm working the muscles enough, no matter how "intense" the 4-6 reps are.

4-6 reps is powerlifting, will generate but is not optimal for, max. tissue development.

Hedgehog · « **Reply #31 on:** December 09, 2006, 10:22:12 AM »

I would like to see someone who trains Max-OT, try to mix up the training so he/she would use moderate weights half the time.

Ie, week 1, the first couple of excersises in the workouts would be all out. The other excersises would be moderate.

Week 2, the first couple of excersises would be... you guessed it: moderate. The rest of the excersises would be all out.

You would still use the same 4-6 repetitions, and same amount of sets. But back off the weights slightly every other week.

Just a suggestion for anyone doing Max-OT and feeling sore or getting stuck.

YIP
Zack

Hedgehog · « **Reply #32 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:09:56 AM »

Just an idea on how to tweak the Max-OT:

Week 1:

Back and Biceps:

Cable Pull Downs 2sets 4 to 6 reps 20 lbs under max
Close Grip Pull Downs (using a V-Bar) 2 4 to 6 20 lbs under max
Bent Over Rows 2 4 to 6 max
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 4 to 6 max
Straight Bar Curls 2 4 to 6 max

Week 2:

Cable Pull Downs 2sets 4 to 6 reps max
Close Grip Pull Downs (using a V-Bar) 2 4 to 6 max
Bent Over Rows 2 4 to 6 20 lbs under max
Alternate Dumbbell Curls 2 4 to 6 10 lbs under max
Straight Bar Curls 2 4 to 6 10 lbs under max

week 3: repeat week 1...

FWIW, there's is little point in tweaking Max-OT, unless you haven't tried following Max-OT to the letter first. Usually, most people will add in a few sets here and there, and hence get overtraining.

If anything, I believe Max-OT advocates too many training days.

-Hedge

Jeff Miller · « **Reply #33 on:** December 13, 2006, 04:57:40 AM »

I trained Max-OT for almost a year. Didn't make huge gains, but I was stable at @ 250. I liked how everything is spelled out for you. I would be interested to see how the "tweaks" would feel. I might try it after this cycle of Doggcrapp (just in my 2nd week ever).

Unless Doggrapp just completely floors me with the results, that is.

natural al · « **Reply #34 on:** December 13, 2006, 07:45:31 AM »

Quote from: Jeff Miller on December 13, 2006, 04:57:40 AM

I trained Max-OT for almost a year. Didn't make huge gains, but I was stable at @ 250. I liked how everything is spelled out for you. I would be interested to see how the "tweaks" would feel. I might try it after this cycle of Doggcrapp (just in my 2nd week ever).

Unless Doggrapp just completely floors me with the results, that is.

post your DC routine in the DC thread...I'd be interested in seeing what your doing.

SuperMike3288 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 05, 2007, 09:55:44 PM »

I decided to implement max ot into my arm training... if I see good results I'll switch over my whole routine.

natural al · « **Reply #36 on:** January 09, 2007, 07:58:30 AM »

Quote from: SuperMike3288 on January 05, 2007, 09:55:44 PM

I decided to implement max ot into my arm training... if I see good results I'll switch over my whole routine.

so what exactly are you doint for your arms? I don't know how effective this route will be, if you're doin a ton of work on your chest, shoulders and back your arms are going to get worked alot there...just a thought.

SuperMike3288 · « **Reply #37 on:** January 09, 2007, 12:54:54 PM »

Well, my arms might be a little too big for my shoulders and chest at the moment anyways so that's why I'm willing to try a new routine with them and if it seems to work I want to switch my whole workout to Max-OT. My arm routine consisted of...

EZ curlbar
1st warm up set - 65lbs for 12
2nd warm up set - 65lbs for 10
1st adjustment set -85lbs for 6
2nd adjustment set -95lbs for 3
3rd adjustment set - 105 for 1
1st working set - 115lbs for 5
2nd working set - 120lbs for 4
Alt DB Curl
1st set - 45's for 6
2nd set - 55's for 4
Cable Curls
1st set - 120lbs for 6

Tricep Press (flat bench holding two dumbbells with a neutral grip, keeping them pressed together through entire movement)
1st warm up set - 35's for 12
2nd warm up set - 35's for 10
1st adjustment set -45's for 6
2nd adjustment set -60s for 3
3rd adjustment set - 70's for 1
1st working set - 85's for 5
2nd working set - 85's for 4
Skullcrushers (but on slight incline and with weight starting behind head and never going past eye level)
1st set - 115lbs for 4
2nd set - 115lbs for 5
Pressdowns
1st set - 170lbs for 6
2nd set - 220 for 4

then for forearms I was running out of time so I used the wrist roller and I have one of those power grippers that is adjustable with the coiled springs

Hedgehog · « **Reply #38 on:** January 29, 2007, 12:45:24 PM »

For SuperMike:

I suggest you do one or two warmup sets.

Then only do singles or doubles for your acclimation sets.

-Hedge

natural al · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:48:44 PM »

Quote from: Hedgehog on January 29, 2007, 12:45:24 PM

For SuperMike:

I suggest you do one or two warmup sets.

Then only do singles or doubles for your acclimation sets.

-Hedge

I wonder how it's going for supermike?

SuperMike3288 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:20:24 PM »

Hmm, I don't really know, haha. None of my lifts have gone up in arms really but I've only been doing this for 3 weeks, so still too early to tell. I'm going home this weekend so maybe I'll take a picture of two and measure my arms and see if they are any different...

Petrucci · « **Reply #41 on:** February 13, 2007, 06:18:51 AM »

hey super mike, any progress on the program? im thinking in giving it a try

natural al · « **Reply #42 on:** February 14, 2007, 09:21:29 AM »

Quote from: SuperMike3288 on January 31, 2007, 09:20:24 PM

Hmm, I don't really know, haha. None of my lifts have gone up in arms really but I've only been doing this for 3 weeks, so still too early to tell. I'm going home this weekend so maybe I'll take a picture of two and measure my arms and see if they are any different...

I dont' think your gonna see very good results if your only using the routine for arms and doing higher volume for everything else, you're tri's and bi's are getting worked when you do back, chest and shoulders so you might still be over training your arms if the volume is too high on those BP's.

Petrucci · « **Reply #43 on:** February 14, 2007, 10:46:51 AM »

i think i will maintain high volume on legs and calves (because they started to respond that, and im feeling good) But everything else im thinking and do Max OT route.
Do you guys think its a good idea?

pvn100 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 18, 2007, 06:10:12 PM »

I know you're not supposed to change the Max-OT program, but I'd be very interested in seeing an example of this workout in a 4 day routine rather then 5. I just know 5 is not doable. Please feel free to share if you've created a 4 day plan.

Thanks.

natural al · « **Reply #45 on:** February 19, 2007, 05:27:42 AM »

Quote from: pvn100 on February 18, 2007, 06:10:12 PM

I know you're not supposed to change the Max-OT program, but I'd be very interested in seeing an example of this workout in a 4 day routine rather then 5. I just know 5 is not doable. Please feel free to share if you've created a 4 day plan.

Thanks.

I did this using a 4 way split back when I was doing Max-OT. I "think" I did it as follows.

day 1-Chest and Tri's (my chest blows so it was top priority, I trained early in the morning so getting on the equipment I wanted to was not an issue)

Day 2-Legs

Day 3-Back, Bi's and Forearms

Day 4-Shoulders

or something like that. Usually I took Weds. off, so I did 2 on 1 off and took the weekends off.

Petrucci · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2007, 11:07:36 AM »

I started last week , and did everything the Max - Ot way minus legs. Today im going to do arms.
Surprisingly (sp) i had a good pump from chest!!! with 9 sets total, wich is a lot less than i normally do. Maybe i will drop to 8, wich is the first program they teach on the manual. And when i did back i got very happy with the poundages , for a total of 10 sets
Shoulders was good too, and today im going to see how i feel with arms...

My routine was something like
*****************
Chest

Bench Press
warm-ups, acclimations then
3 sets, 4-6 reps

incline bench press
3 sets, 4-6

dips
3 sets , 4-6
***********************
Back
behind the back pulldowns
3 sets 4-6

bent over rows
3 sets , 4-6

close grip pull downs
2 sets , 4-6

close grip rows (cable)
2 sets, 4-6

Shrugs
3 sets - 4-6

**********************
shoulders

barbell military presses
3 sets, 4-6

side laterals
3 sets, 4-6

bent over raises
3 sets, 4-6 (very heavy on this, good ego buster LOL)

**************

legs (not Max OT yet, still high volume, but lot less than in the past)

***************************

arms (first day today)
barbell curls
2 sets, 4-6

alt dumbell curls
2 sets, 4-6

hammer curls (both arms, same time)
2 sets, 4-6

skull crushers
2 sets, 4-6

press downs
2 sets, 4-6

french presses (dumbell)
2 sets, 4-6

dizzleman06 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 23, 2007, 11:40:52 AM »

the most important thing with Max-OT is that you use really really strict form. if you form gets sloppy, then you have the potential for injuries. I don't like negative sets, and cheat sets because it makes you more likely for injuries. you need a partner to help on your work sets too. I believe this is the most efficient way to train for a natural. I was juiced about a year ago and got better results from routines that had more volume, but Max-OT is much better now that I am no longer using. Another good thing about Max-OT is that it helps you get stronger almost every workout. For a natural this is crucial, because you have to work so much harder for strength gains. big weight= big muscle!

natural al · « **Reply #48 on:** June 27, 2007, 10:52:46 AM »

Quote from: dizzleman06 on June 23, 2007, 11:40:52 AM

the most important thing with Max-OT is that you use really really strict form. if you form gets sloppy, then you have the potential for injuries. I don't like negative sets, and cheat sets because it makes you more likely for injuries. you need a partner to help on your work sets too. I believe this is the most efficient way to train for a natural. I was juiced about a year ago and got better results from routines that had more volume, but Max-OT is much better now that I am no longer using. Another good thing about Max-OT is that it helps you get stronger almost every workout. For a natural this is crucial, because you have to work so much harder for strength gains. big weight= big muscle!

skip lacour's thoughts on strict form:
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=255

Tightenup · « **Reply #49 on:** July 06, 2007, 08:20:37 AM »

Tried this workout for a week.. I just couldnt stand walking out the gym feeling like I barely got a workout.. Im sure it works.. Im just a person who enjoys being in the gym for hours and really feeling the workout... Hedge always seems to know what he's talking about.. He has great advice... Good luck to the rest of yall..