I thought this was a good read. It obviously refers to a Christian God but imagine any God. I know I've been praying more than ever, and it all seems to be for nothing. I'm tired of praying to someone who isn't listening or doesn't seem to care.
It is common practice among Christians to pray for people who are sick or are in need. Suppose that a few Christians know a boy who has cancer. The disease is inoperable and untreatable in this case, so our Christian friends pray for the boy. A few weeks later, the boy dies. This is a familiar scenario which is often encountered in the creationist world. One can't help but wonder why the praying didn't work. Was the boy a sinner, and therefore deserved to die? Did his friends simply not pray hard enough? Probably not. The explanation that most Christians use is that it was not God's will for the boy to live. In other words, written in God's big book of how things are going to happen, Timmy is supposed to reach the end of the line at such and such date. At first glance, this seems to make sense. For whatever mysterious reason, it was the boy's time to go, and because of that, no amount of prayers could change it. Most Christians agree to this reasoning.
But let's back up a bit here. We said that no amount of prayers could change the outcome of the boy with cancer situation because it is God's will that the boy die. This actually says a lot more than you might think. This means that we can't change something that is in God's plan. If God wants the boy to die, then he is going to die. Doesn't this make praying pointless? Doesn't this mean that you can't change what God is going to do, so it doesn't matter if you pray or not? At this point of the argument, most Christians tell me that prayer convinces God to change his mind about his divine plan. Here, I would like to take a small detour to prove that God cannot change his mind, due to the fact that he is perfect. The reason is simply this: there is always a best choice in any situation. For someone to change their mind, they have to deem their new choice better than their old one. Suppose, for example, that God thought that one plus one equals three. God then changes his mind to thinking that one plus one equals two. This situation is impossible because for God to change his mind to the best choice (one plus one equals two), he must have previously had a worse choice. This math situation cannot happen because God must be wrong in the first place. For him to change to thinking that one plus one equals two, he must first think that one plus one equals something else, which is wrong. God is never wrong, remember? He always knows the best choice, because he is omniscient. God always selects the best choice from the start. As a result, God can never change his mind. Granted, sometimes the best choice is only slightly better than the other choice, but it doesn't matter. All questions have a best answer. It is impossible to calculate the best answer to a question for us because we must look at every single tiny effect on everything else, but for an omniscient god, this is no difficult task at all. God always makes the best choice, because he is never wrong. Every choice he makes is perfect -- there is no better choice. Now, let's get back to the original argument.
I made that point to show that God cannot change his mind. The relevance to the argument is that God cannot be convinced to make a different choice. So let's get this straight: if God's plan is set in place, and God's mind is set in place, then how can prayer change anything? There exist two kinds of situations: (1) someone prays for something that is not according to God's plan, and (2) someone prays for something that is according to God's plan. As we've just discussed, praying for something that is not according to his plan is pointless, because we can't change his mind about anything, and what God wants to do is already set in place. The second situation, where someone prays for something that is according to God's plan, is equally pointless. If something is according to God's plan prior to the prayer, then it is going to happen regardless of whether you pray for it or not. If God wants some kid with cancer to live, then praying for him is pointless because before you even kneel down in front of your bed or in your church, God has already decided that the boy will live. What's the point of praying for something that is going to happen anyway? It's like praying for the law of gravity. It's going to happen anyway, so why pray for it? In both of the situations, prayer is pointless.
Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.
-Dave
http://www.christianway.org/forums/Topic11926-17-1.aspx
Hey BS....good read!
Dave’s comments presuppose that God has predetermined a path for our lives according to his will. Dave is correct.
As Dave concludes: “Either your prayer is against God's will and therefore won't happen because you can't change his mind, or your prayer is according to God's will but doesn't make a difference because God's will would have been carried out anyway. Prayer is pointless. It's a waste of time.”
Appears to be sewn up pretty neatly.
Dave also suggests that God’s perfection has predetermined the best possible outcome for our lives. Dave is correct again.
As Dave suggests our prayers are merely recommendations that are only valid if they agree with God’s preset choices because anything less than God’s preset choice is a step in the wrong direction.
Ultimately Dave blames God’s perfection and omniscience because he feels it invalidates the act of prayer rendering our prayers meaningless.
God is omniscient and has a will for each of our lives and chronologically that foreknowledge precedes our future choices, but the world he created takes into account our future choices and allows for his will and our will to be accomplished within the same perfect creation. Now certainly only God’s will for our lives and our will for our lives can only be fulfilled simultaneously if they agree, but still God’s will for our lives takes second fiddle to our own will for our lives if they don’t agree.
God desires that we desire his will for our lives, but he honors our choice to defy his predetermined will. In essence, just because God is omniscient and has a predetermined will for our lives doesn’t mean his will is pre-executed. We can easily defy his will for our lives. For example, Jesus Christ desires that we all come to accept him as our Lord and Savior, but I’m gonna guess that the atheists and agnostics on Getbig aren’t going to gives their lives to Christ again today. That said, God’s predetermined will for our lives still exists, but has been defied. As Dave stated, God’s mind isn’t going to change either, but that doesn’t mean his will for our lives is going to come to fruition ….we can prevent it.
So why pray?
The main reason I can think of to pray is that Jesus Christ told us to pray and later the apostle Paul affirmed that we should pray (without ceasing) according to that which was revealed to him by Jesus Christ.
A second reason to consider praying is that while Jesus Christ came as the incarnate Son of God on earth and assumed a limited human form that he prayed to God the Father for guidance and strength as an example of how we should seek him in our own lives. If prayer was appropriate for the Son of God then it’s appropriate for me…..God set the standard.
Another reason to pray is because believers are engaged in a personal relationship with the Almighty and relationships are two-way streets. How many successful relationships involve only one party engaged in communication with the other? None that I’ve ever known of. This is our opportunity as believers to consistently remain connected with our Lord and Savior and experience the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit (not the only way to feel the Holy Spirit's presence, but a powerful way).
A third reason to consider is that the act of prayer is not for God’s edification, it’s for ours (God doesn't need our prayers). Prayer is a means by which we as believers can strengthen our faith. Prayer is our opportunity to draw closer to God, to feel his presence via the Holy Spirit, to worship and to seek his will. As believers our will for our lives should always match God’s will for our lives. Almost every day I pray and I ask God that he reveal himself through me to others and that his will be done in my life. I pray that I am able to recognize his fingerprints and guidance along the way to ensure that he will is being accomplished and that I’m not a hindrance. As Dave already suggested, God’s will for our lives is perfect and anything less than that is a step in wrong direction.
A fourth reason to consider prayer is that despite the fact that God doesn’t change his mind about his will for our lives this doesn’t necessitate his inability to intervene supernaturally to right the course of our lives while remaining in complete harmony with his preset will for our lives…..he is God afterall. How does he accomplish this? Wish I could tell you LOL.
There are more reasons to pray that I'm not mentioning, but this is a first blush explanation.
