What would you do in this situation?

[bigbobs]

4.1 17. They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel.

53.21-22. Are yours the males and His the females? That indeed were an unfair division!

53.27. Lo! it is those who disbelieve in the Hereafter who name the angels with the names of females.

Other verses from the Koran also seem of a misogynist tendency.

2.228. Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

2.282. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember.

4.11. Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females.

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Equally, in numerous hadiths on which are based the Islamic laws, we learn of the woman's role - to stay at home, to be at the beck and call of man to obey him (which is a religious duty), and to assure man a tranquil existence. Here are some examples of these traditions:

The woman who dies and with whom the husband is satisfied will go to paradise.
A wife should never refuse herself to her husband even if it is on the saddle of a camel.
Hellfire appeared to me in a dream and I noticed that it was above all peopled with women who had been ungrateful. "Was it toward God that they were ungrateful?" They had not shown any gratitude toward their husbands for all they had received from them. Even when all your life you have showered a woman with your largesse she will still find something petty to reproach you with one day, saying, "You have never done anything for me."
If anything presages a bad omen it is: a house, a woman, a horse.
Never will a people know success if they confide their affairs to a woman.
It will be appropriate to include two quotes from the famous and much revered philosopher al-Ghazali (1058-1111), whom Professor Montgomery Watt describes as the greatest Muslim after Muhammad. In his "The Revival Of The Religious Sciences," Ghazali defines the woman's role: [4]

She should stay at home and get on with her spinning, she should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbours and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything; she must not cheat on him nor extort money from him; she must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave surreptitiously. She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice or recognize her; she must not speak to a friend of her husband even in need. ... Her sole worry should be her virtue, her home as well as her prayers and her fast. If a friend of her husband calls when the latter is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her and her husband's honour. She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment. ... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment.

Such are some of the sayings from the putative golden age of Islamic feminism. It was claimed that it was the abandonment of the original teachings of Islam that had led to the present decadence and backwardness of Muslim societies. But there never was an Islamic utopia. To talk of a golden age is only to conform and perpetuate the influence of the clergy, the mullas, and their hateful creed that denies humanity to half the inhabitants of this globe, and further retards all serious attempts to liberate Muslim women.

What Rights?

The inequality between men and women in matters of giving testimony or evidence or being a witness is enshrined in the Koran: sura 2.282 (quoted above).

19 of 22 Arab countries, women cannot vote. In Egypt, women if you want to divorce your husband you have to go to court. If a man wants to divorce his wife if he just has to say what they call the triple telac: I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee.

In Saudi Arabia, women cannot drive a car, sail a boat, or fly a plane.  Last I checked, cars weren't around for the vast majority of today's cultures but only in backwards Islamic countries would they adhere to something as stupid as "cars weren't around when Islam was developed" and extrapolate from that, that women should not be able to drive.  What remote sense does that even make?  What is the correlation between the two?


Can you honestly read everything I have written and suggest Islam is good for the wellbeing of women?  I can give numerous specific examples of the horrors for women in Islam.  Just the entire concept of making women cover themselves from head to toe is absurd.

LOL did you even read I word I said before you googled and copy-and-pasted from an anti-Islamic website?  I definitely did not read your long post, well I did read the first 1-2 lines and stopped as I realized you must not have understood a word I said.  The Qur'an is not written in English + trying to translate individual verses withoutknowing the context in which they were revealed in or studying the related "Hadiths" can be very misleading.  If you just have an anti-islamic agenda there's no point in me wasting my time discussing it with you, but if you are open minded and trying to learn, then you would have at least read the wikipedia link that Sherief posted.

[Reeves]

I notice that no muslime has commented upon the situation of  the "bacha bereesh".   

Fucking pederasts.  Sanctioned pederasts or so it would seem.  FTN.

[bigbobs]

I notice that no muslime has commented upon the situation of  the "bacha bereesh".  

Fucking pederasts.  Sanctioned pederasts or so it would seem.  FTN.

Didn't read any quesiton you had on "bacha bereesh."  Never heard of the phrase either.  Looked it up in google(http://digitaljournal.com/article/246409/Boys_in_Afghanistan_Sold_Into_Prostitution_Sexual_Slavery) and skimmed a bit of it, still not seeing what it has to do with Islam?

[Reeves]

Didn't read any quesiton you had on "bacha bereesh."  Never heard of the phrase either.  Looked it up in google(http://digitaljournal.com/article/246409/Boys_in_Afghanistan_Sold_Into_Prostitution_Sexual_Slavery) and skimmed a bit of it, still not seeing what it has to do with Islam?

It was a couple of posts above one of yours back two or so pages in this thread.

Here is my reply to another persons posting -

Here... I'm not selling anything so fuck off.

Or, lose the "faith" in a murderous pedophile and the world will  be only too happy to shake your hand. 

A wonderful rule regarding pederasty in the land of islime -

If a baligh person commits sodomy with a boy , the mother, sister and daughter of the boy become haraam for him. And the same law applies when the person on whom sodomy is committed is an adult male, or when the person committing sodomy is na-baligh. But if one suspects or doubts whether penetration occurred or not, then the said woman would not become haraam.

These poor boys are called "bacha bereesh".   It seems that if you molested a boy but you had the intent of marrying into the family or some such nonsense those women are now haraam, or forbidden.   But its still okie dokie to have sodomized a boy. 

Are you people certain you're not catholic?

And this, good people, is why Laurence of Arabia loved the sand box.  He was a homosexual pedophile.  Fuck that noise.

Here is a link explaining this disgusting practice.

http://www.al-islam.org/laws/marriage1.html

I have spoken with US Military personnel and it is a quite common in arabic lands.  That it is sanctioned is sick because if you're not married to a woman then somehow it's okay to be a pederast, hence my questioning if those people aren't catholic.  I don't play favorites with anyone that is a pedophile. 

[bigbobs]

It was a couple of posts above one of yours back two or so pages in this thread.

Here is my reply to another persons posting -
 
Here is a link explaining this disgusting practice.

http://www.al-islam.org/laws/marriage1.html

I have spoken with US Military personnel and it is a quite common in arabic lands.  That it is sanctioned is sick because if you're not married to a woman then somehow it's okay to be a pederast, hence my questioning if those people aren't catholic.  I don't play favorites with anyone that is a pedophile.  

Again, I don't see what this has to do with Islam?  What exactly is your question?  If you're suggesting that a religion is at fault for wrongdoings committed by certain individuals who claim to be members of the said relgion (when there's evidence that the religion considers the act to be a wrongdoing), your logic is extremely elementary.

BTW i didn't read much of the link because you didnt' specify what in the link supports your viewpoint or raises your questions, but I did notice from the some of its terminology that it's  a Shia website, which represnts only represents a small minority of Muslims.

[bigbobs]

But its still okie dokie to have sodomized a boy.  

No it's not "okie dokie" again I don't see where you are getting this nonsense from.

It actually carries the death penalty under Sharia law

[Reeves]

Again, I don't see what this has to do with Islam?  What exactly is your question?  If you're suggesting that a religion is at fault for wrongdoings committed by certain individuals who claim to be members of the said relgion (when there's evidence that the religion considers the act to be a wrongdoing), your logic is extremely elementary.

Denial...It really isn't just a river is it?

Those rules given in that link aren't mine, they belong to islime.  My "logic" is not "elementary".  This bullshit is reminiscent of catholicism's cover up of their peds.  Just because you're a good man that would never do such a thing does not mean your clergy and others in your faith are as good as you are.  I've seen imam's endorse wife beating and I hope you don't go in for that shit but really now, what the hell is wrong with islime?

Does not the name mean "to submit".  I've seen the evil men do in the name of their own debauchery made out as somehow "God's will".  Fuck that noise.  A big non-theological difference between islime and catholicism is the latter is sending people out to kill innocents in the name of "god".  Nuns don't frighten people.  Priests?  They might scare some boys, but who could blame them?  imams?  Fuckin' nut jobs. 

I have no faith in any "god" and I'm losing it men.  Look at sunnis and shiites.  Same "faith" but they have shall we say, a "difference" of opinion that proves fatal to some, including innocents. 

[Reeves]

No it's not "okie dokie" again I don't see where you are getting this nonsense from.

It actually carries the death penalty under Sharia law

It seems only women get stoned over there, but then that is often the case with "religions".  Even when the wild ass jews brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus of Nazareth it seems they conveniently "forgot" to bring the man she was with.

Jesus was a good, no...Great man.  homohammed?  Fuck him.  He's about as "holy" as any pope in history. Fuck the popes too. 

[Ron]

Guys,

Never judge anyone by how they look, or what they wear, or their color.  Truly stupid.

Just because someone is an Arab, or from a different country or doesnt look like you doesnt mean anything.  You need to judge people by themselves.    Same with anything

That includes bodybuilding personalities, actors or people you meet.    Not fair to them or you.




Here is a story -

Lori and I were at Yosemite (upper Yosemite near Tioga Pass) at a campsite, where we met 8 bikers. Rough, tough and looked mean.  But sitting down with them, there were the coolest and nicest people, who just enjoyed bikini and actually were just business folks having fun.

Never judge.

[Reeves]

Guys,

Never judge anyone by how they look, or what they wear, or their color.  Truly stupid.

Just because someone is an Arab, or from a different country or doesnt look like you doesnt mean anything.  You need to judge people by themselves.    Same with anything

That includes bodybuilding personalities, actors or people you meet.    Not fair to them or you.




Here is a story -

Lori and I were at Yosemite (upper Yosemite near Tioga Pass) at a campsite, where we met 8 bikers. Rough, tough and looked mean.  But sitting down with them, there were the coolest and nicest people, who just enjoyed bikini and actually were just business folks having fun.

Never judge.

Ron, if a book screams "FUCK YOU MULATTO BOY" or "Die! Die! Die! Jew" on its cover I am not going to pick it up, open it and read it.  You can judge a book  by its cover.  People too. 

"Bikers"?  Sounds like rubbies, or RUBs (Rich Urban Bikers), aka weekend wannabes.  Try sitting down with a bunch of books called the "HA".  Alone, a single member is nice enough but two or more of them and their code takes over.  Just because they have a Christmas "toy run" doesn't absolve them of what they are and do.  FTN.

The point being that people are not books.  People can choose not only their "cover" but what's inside as well. 

[bigbobs]

It seems only women get stoned over there

It "seems" that way only when you draw false conclusions from biased media, sort of how you tend to draw incorrect conclusions about a religion based on mid-deeds by a minority of people who claim to be followers while ignoring rulings and interpetations by the majority of clerics.

[Sherief Shalaby]

Guys,

Never judge anyone by how they look, or what they wear, or their color.  Truly stupid.

Just because someone is an Arab, or from a different country or doesnt look like you doesnt mean anything.  You need to judge people by themselves.    Same with anything

That includes bodybuilding personalities, actors or people you meet.    Not fair to them or you.




Here is a story -

Lori and I were at Yosemite (upper Yosemite near Tioga Pass) at a campsite, where we met 8 bikers. Rough, tough and looked mean.  But sitting down with them, there were the coolest and nicest people, who just enjoyed bikini and actually were just business folks having fun.

Never judge.

yes when ppl see me for the first time they always think i am nice but after they know me well they see me very very nice

[Growth NOOB]

LOL did you even read I word I said before you googled and copy-and-pasted from an anti-Islamic website?  I definitely did not read your long post, well I did read the first 1-2 lines and stopped as I realized you must not have understood a word I said.  The Qur'an is not written in English + trying to translate individual verses withoutknowing the context in which they were revealed in or studying the related "Hadiths" can be very misleading.  If you just have an anti-islamic agenda there's no point in me wasting my time discussing it with you, but if you are open minded and trying to learn, then you would have at least read the wikipedia link that Sherief posted.

How ironic that you chose not to read what I wrote, yet kept telling me to read a wikipedia article (which I did).  I hate to break it to you, but what I posted comes directly from your holy books.  How are you going to try and justify that?  There is no spin or misinterpretation.  You are choosing a cafeteria style  Islam and trying to ignore all the wicked parts.  Don't you find it odd that you wouldn't even read what I wrote?  It's clear to any logical person you feel uncomfortable with your position and can not intelligently defend it.  You also didn't address how stupid your point was that cars weren't around when Islam was invented, therefore women can't drive.  Arguably one of the dumbest things I have ever heard from someone trying to defend their religion.    

I am the only one being open minded.  You aren't because I present to you specific tenants from your supposed holy book yet you wouldn't even read them, obviously showing the weakness and untenability of your position.

[bigbobs]

How ironic that you chose not to read what I wrote, yet kept telling me to read a wikipedia article (which I did).  I hate to break it to you, but what I posted comes directly from your holy books.  How are you going to try and justify that?  There is no spin or misinterpretation.  You are choosing a cafeteria style  Islam and trying to ignore all the wicked parts.  Don't you find it odd that you wouldn't even read what I wrote?  It's clear to any logical person you feel uncomfortable with your position and can not intelligently defend it. You also didn't address how stupid your point was that cars weren't around when Islam was invented, therefore women can't drive.   Arguably one of the dumbest things I have ever heard from someone trying to defend their religion.    

I am the only one being open minded.  You aren't because I present to you specific tenants from your supposed holy book yet you wouldn't even read them, obviously showing the weakness and untenability of your position.

WTF where did I say that?? (the bolded text).  I said cars weren't around when the religion was revealed, and therefore certain minority of clerics make rulings today based on their strict interpretation of the religion applied towards the newer technologies of today, while the vast majority argue that women should be allowed to drive.  Never said that because cars weren't around then women aren't allowed to drive today lol.  Feel like I'm talking to a bunch of grade 4 people lol.  In the majority of Muslim countries, women are allowed to drive.  Even in Saudi Arabia, the msot strict of countries, women often drive in defiance and are not held accountable by the authorities.

When you post such retarded stuff it makes me less inclined to want to read your lengthy copy and pasted stuff.  I could simarly copy and paste rebuttals from pro-islamic websites, however if you are open minded you would read them yourself .

[Reeves]

It "seems" that way only when you draw false conclusions from biased media, sort of how you tend to draw incorrect conclusions about a religion based on mid-deeds by a minority of people who claim to be followers while ignoring rulings and interpetations by the majority of clerics.

Nice pull quote, young man.  But you read the whole thing right?  I'm right not because it is I saying it (like so many retard "clerics") but because my words are correct.  It "seems" the truth bothers you.  We can agree to disagree but that's about all.

Fix your faith or fuck it.  I say the same to others of different beliefs, when such criticism is warranted.  The "media" is "biased" against islime?  Please...

The world is pissed at what islime is doing.  We should be biased against evil.   To change the perception of the world, the cause, the reason for that perception requires changing.  I don't have a pig in this fight.  But I like bacon and it may be time to fry some up.  You seem a good man lost in an unreasonable attachment to a faith of lies. I'm atheist.   

[bigbobs]

Nice pull quote, young man.  But you read the whole thing right?  I'm right not because it is I saying it (like so many retard "clerics") but because my words are correct.  It "seems" the truth bothers you.  We can agree to disagree but that's about all.

Fix your faith or fuck it.  I say the same to others of different beliefs, when such criticism is warranted.  The "media" is "biased".

The world is pissed at what islime is doing.  We should be biased against evil.   To change the perception of the world, the cause, the reason for that perception requires changing.  I don't have a pig in this fight.  But I like bacon and it may be time to fry some up.  You seem a good man lost in an unreasonable attachment to a faith of lies. I'm atheist.  

Yes, the "truth" that many people who claim to be Muslims commit such acts does bother me.  However, claiming that the religion endorses it (when there are clear rulings against it, even punishable by deathu under Sharia) is simply a false argument and that I will debate against.

By media being biased I was referring to the fact that a stoning a female is much much more likely to be shown by the media than when men are stoned, obviously it has a lot more dramatic value attached to it and is more of a "story."  However, as a result of that some people like you end up believing that only women get stoned because that's all you see in the media.

[Raymondo]

Women?  I would help a woman and have done so although it was just a matter of answering some questions about getting a taxi and other related things in a very public place.  The odd thing about that instance is that the two women appeared very worried while talking to me.  I later found out that these two women could have gotten in a lot of "trouble" just for talking to another man, let alone an "infidel". 

Were it known that I am an atheist, it would have been worse.  muslimes really don't care for atheists.  muslime males can marry muslime babes or babes of the People of the Book, i.e., Christian or Jewish women.  muslime women on the other hand can only marry muslime men.  Fuck that noise.

As for the store owner, any store owner really, they can refuse service to whomever the want to refuse service to.  And in a similar fashion, customers can refuse to shop there.     islime is a misogynistic "faith".  Men are forbidden to have sex with a woman until they are married but they will fag off with other men and worse still fuck boys in the ass.  This is a big reason that the pederast known as "Lawrence of Arabia" supercalifragelisticabso fuckinglutely loved to live in the litter box. 

He was a homo pedophile and in the world of islime...No problem.

If you want to know what I really think then listen carefully, champ.   islime needs to clean its own house instead of slithering around trying to blow up someone else's. But nooooooooooooooo...islim e means "submit".  Treat your women as women and equals instead of property.  I've seen how these silicon schwartz's (i.e., "negroes of the sand") treat their women and I think that castration is the way to go.  Can't rape or reproduce when you've only got the bat but someone took the balls and went home.  FTN.  Cut it all off.  Fuckers deserve to go through life without their weenies.

You want to be liked?  Be likeable.  Lose the queeron and behave (not act/pretend) like a human.   

Fuck that noise.

Oh, and if this were a man it happened to.  Fuck him.  Fuck islime. 

[Growth NOOB]

WTF where did I say that?? (the bolded text).  I said cars weren't around when the religion was revealed, and therefore certain minority of clerics make rulings today based on their strict interpretation of the religion applied towards the newer technologies of today, while the vast majority argue that women should be allowed to drive.  Never said that because cars weren't around then women aren't allowed to drive today lol.  Feel like I'm talking to a bunch of grade 4 people lol.  In the majority of Muslim countries, women are allowed to drive.  Even in Saudi Arabia, the msot strict of countries, women often drive in defiance and are not held accountable by the authorities.

When you post such retarded stuff it makes me less inclined to want to read your lengthy copy and pasted stuff.  I could simarly copy and paste rebuttals from pro-islamic websites, however if you are open minded you would read them yourself .

Where did you say it?! LOL  You just restated it again.  Is this a joke?  Do you think that outlawing women from driving and depriving them the right to vote is a good thing?  Yes or no.  


Again, address all the points I made in my previous post.  I see you made zero effort to try and argue against them and would rather try and insult me.  

Also, I hate to break it to you, but your hole "lost in translation" argument is nonsense.  Do you yourself read and write Arabic?  If not, how could you possibly be a Muslim when you can;t even read the Quran correctly! LOL  
What a stupid argument.  You should actually try and address the specific points that were brought up directly from your supposed holy books.  If you again choose to dodge the points brought up it's clear your position is untenable.

[Reeves]

Yes, the "truth" that many people who claim to be Muslims commit such acts does bother me.  However, claiming that the religion endorses it (when there are clear rulings against it, even punishable by deathu under Sharia) is simply a false argument and that I will debate against.

By media being biased I was referring to the fact that a stoning a female is much much more likely to be shown by the media than when men are stoned, obviously it has a lot more dramatic value attached to it and is more of a "story."  However, as a result of that some people like you end up believing that only women get stoned because that's all you see in the media.

I had the opportunity (if one can call it that) to view the infamous video of the man having his head cut off.  I passed.  I also passed on viewing women being stoned.  A single frame of a woman buried to her shoulders with a bunch of apes standing around with rocks at the ready was all I could stand. 

Sharia is primarily a law of convenience in that it is applied somewhat sparingly and only when it is convenient to do so. 

Kinda like the jews bringing just the woman to Jesus of Nazareth for judgment.  Convenient, huh? 

As to debate I would say thus.  It is a losing battle to debate on the side of that which is patently wrong.  islime is wrong.

[Growth NOOB]

By media being biased I was referring to the fact that a stoning a female is much much more likely to be shown by the media than when men are stoned, obviously it has a lot more dramatic value attached to it and is more of a "story."  However, as a result of that some people like you end up believing that only women get stoned because that's all you see in the media.

This post shows just how polluted this guys mind is by Islam.


MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE ARGUING AGAINST STONING A PERSON IN GENERAL FOR SOMETHING AS STUPID AS ADULTERY - AS IS DIRECTLY PRESCRIBED IN THE TENANTS OF ISLAM

[Reeves]

It's not an internet act with you, is it?  You really are a simpleton.  Oh well, you're not my problem child.

[bigbobs]

Where did you say it?! LOL  You just restated it again.  Is this a joke?  Do you think that outlawing women from driving and depriving them the right to vote is a good thing?  Yes or no.  


Again, address all the points I made in my previous post.  I see you made zero effort to try and argue against them and would rather try and insult me.  

Also, I hate to break it to you, but your hole "lost in translation" argument is nonsense.  Do you yourself read and write Arabic?  If not, how could you possibly be a Muslim when you can;t even read the Quran correctly! LOL  
What a stupid argument.  You should actually try and address the specific points that were brought up directly from your supposed holy books.  If you again choose to dodge the points brought up it's clear your position is untenable.

I assume English is not your first language if you're still asking me whether I think women should be allowed to drive or not, after my few posts on the subject lol.  yes, I think they definitely should, in today's time it can be very inconvenient for women to not have access to basic transportation. Because most Muslims share my viewpoint, women in most Muslim countries are allowed to drive, and even in Saudi Arabia (from what I've read) authorities appear to turn a blind eye to women driving in defiance.  

The reason I'm making zero effort in addressing most of your arguments is because for every negative translation/interpretation of Islamic scripture that you find online you will find several rebuttals with different translations and interpretations.  Why should I duplicate effort that has already been made, especially when I don't believe you are honestly being open minded.

[Growth NOOB]

I assume English is not your first language if you're still asking me whether I think women should be allowed to drive or not, after my few posts on the subject lol.  yes, I think they definitely should, in today's time it can be very inconvenient for women to not have access to basic transportation. Because most Muslims share my viewpoint, women in most Muslim countries are allowed to drive, and even in Saudi Arabia (from what I've read) authorities appear to turn a blind eye to women driving in defiance. 

The reason I'm making zero effort in addressing most of your arguments is because for every negative translation/interpretation of Islamic scripture that you find online you will find several rebuttals with different translations and interpretations.  Why should I duplicate effort that has already been made, especially when I don't believe you are honestly being open minded.

You are just flat out wrong.  In the vast majority (19 out of 22) Islamic countries, women can not drive.  The same goes for voting.  If you think they should, why do you believe in something that you openly admit oppresses women?   Care to back up with a single shred of evidence about your claim that authorities do not enforce this moronic rule?

The reason you aren't addressing the specific points directly from your holy books is because you can't.  Do you realize now what an asinine argument you presented regarding the Quran needing to be read in Arabic?  There are hundreds of millions of people who can not read Arabic yet are Muslim.  Do all of them have their interpretation wrong I suppose?

I again am the only one being open minded.  You constantly refuse to address specific point I bring up when you earlier said you could easily just copy and paste replies from a pro-Islamic website.  I'll even settle for that, but we all know you can't do it.   

[Raymondo]

It's not an internet act with you, is it?  You really are a simpleton.  Oh well, you're not my problem child.

Reeves, I bet you look like the kid in that picture, too.

[Reeves]

You are just flat out wrong.  In the vast majority (19 out of 22) Islamic countries, women can not drive.  The same goes for voting.  If you think they should, why do you believe in something that you openly admit oppresses women?

The reason you aren't addressing the specific points directly from your holy books is because you can't.  Do you realize now what an asinine argument you presented regarding the Quran needing to be read in Arabic?  There are hundreds of millions of people who can not read Arabic yet are Muslim.  Do all of them have their interpretation wrong I suppose?

I again am the only one being open minded.  You constantly refuse to address specific point I bring up when you earlier said you could easily just copy and paste replies from a pro-Islamic website.  I'll even settle for that, but we all know you can't do it.   

Good points on reading arabic.  Well said.