Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Gym Rat on April 03, 2024, 05:04:20 AM
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We blindly follow advice from Govt, FDA, Big Pharma, etc. (I mean, just look at the RONA VaxTardz)...
Remember when "Trans fats good, eat margarine, not butter" and the like. ::)
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-diseases/dangers-of-statin-drugs-what-you-havent-been-told-about-popular-cholesterol-lowering-medicines/
Remember when “high” cholesterol levels were public enemy number one? Then they found out that high-density cholesterol (HDL-cholesterol) was “good,” so to maintain the fiction that cholesterol is bad, we started hearing about the villainous low-density cholesterol (LDL-cholesterol). Now it turns out that LDL is not a bad guy either. A review headed by Uffe Ravnskov and just published in The BMJ online looked at thirty cohorts with a total of over sixty-eight thousand elderly people. In 92 percent of the participants they found an inverse association between all-cause mortality and LDL. In other words, the higher your LDL, the less likely you were to die. Something to tell your doctor when he pulls out his prescription pad for a statin (bmjopen.bmj. com/content/6/6/e010401).
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Statins lead to muscle break down in a low percentage of people taking them. Many say they don't have any problems in that area but the majority of people taking statins don't exercise at all and avoid exertion in any form. My question has always been does the adverse muscle break down effect all? Just most don't realize it because it's so minimal? If you're an athlete running an lifting is it foolish to take something that can cause muscle break down?
If high cholesterol is so bad why do a percentage of people with clog type heart attacks have low cholesterol?
Another factor is why are most of the cholesterol studies are sponsored by the statin industry? Conflict of interest? They have lowered the safe cholesterol number so much through the years that most adults should be prescribed statins. I find something wrong with lowering the number to the point a huge percentage of adults should be on them.
Lastly have they proven statins extends life span? The best study on the side of taking statins is a two year increase. Some show no increase. Why are we taking a drug for decades when it's not proven to increase life span?
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Big Pharma and Big Food corruption.
Most doctors will still preach the out-of-date mantra of the low fat/high carb diet.
Your average Joe is clueless and follows along.
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The government would rather have you dead instead of collecting social security and using Medicare
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Statins lead to muscle break down in a low percentage of people taking them. Many say they don't have any problems in that area but the majority of people taking statins don't exercise at all and avoid exertion in any form. My question has always been does the adverse muscle break down effect all? Just most don't realize it because it's so minimal? If you're an athlete running an lifting is it foolish to take something that can cause muscle break down?
If high cholesterol is so bad why do a percentage of people with clog type heart attacks have low cholesterol?
Another factor is why are most of the cholesterol studies are sponsored by the statin industry? Conflict of interest? They have lowered the safe cholesterol number so much through the years that most adults should be prescribed statins. I find something wrong with lowering the number to the point a huge percentage of adults should be on them.
Lastly have they proven statins extends life span? The best study on the side of taking statins is a two year increase. Some show no increase. Why are we taking a drug for decades when it's not proven to increase life span?
All good points OT1... Read some studies about the folks with low cholesterol, having the majority of heart attacks.
Cholesterol is important and protective. Of course if you are way out whack with double-digit numbers of Trig's, statins can help.
THough its pretty rare.
Also read studies of those with very high, also having very high test levels, and not great longevity also...
An odd 'fine line'...
IroNat also very correct.. Corruption..
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Everything you think you know about cholesterol is a lie.
Heart disease is NOT caused by saturated fats. It's caused by chronic inflammation from excess sugar.
Eat fat. Butter, cream, cheese, milk, meat etc...
Avoid refined sugar and keep carbs low.
The end
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Everything you think you know about cholesterol is a lie.
Heart disease is NOT caused by saturated fats. It's caused by chronic inflammation from excess sugar.
Eat fat. Butter, cream, cheese, milk, meat etc...
Avoid refined sugar and keep carbs low.
The end
Exactly brother Wiggs... This ^^^
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What about Snickers bars?
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Statins lead to muscle break down in a low percentage of people taking them. Many say they don't have any problems in that area but the majority of people taking statins don't exercise at all and avoid exertion in any form. My question has always been does the adverse muscle break down effect all? Just most don't realize it because it's so minimal? If you're an athlete running an lifting is it foolish to take something that can cause muscle break down?
If high cholesterol is so bad why do a percentage of people with clog type heart attacks have low cholesterol?
Another factor is why are most of the cholesterol studies are sponsored by the statin industry? Conflict of interest? They have lowered the safe cholesterol number so much through the years that most adults should be prescribed statins. I find something wrong with lowering the number to the point a huge percentage of adults should be on them.
Lastly have they proven statins extends life span? The best study on the side of taking statins is a two year increase. Some show no increase. Why are we taking a drug for decades when it's not proven to increase life span?
Statins do have side affects this is true but as to losing muscle i personally have not noticed any changes or weakness.
I was on 40mg a day after my heart attack and now i take 40mg every 2nd day.
I am no expert so just giving my opinions on the subject after having had a heart attack... maybe it makes me an expert ;D
i suppose it depends on the individuel .
My Cardiologist told me for example that a patient of his had extreme nightmares from statins.
many factors are involved, genetics & lifestyle
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Big Pharma and Big Food corruption.
Most doctors will still preach the out-of-date mantra of the low fat/high carb diet.
Your average Joe is clueless and follows along.
If your average doctor is clueless, can you really blame your average Joe? Surprising so many actually don’t buy it.
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Everything you think you know about cholesterol is a lie.
Heart disease is NOT caused by saturated fats. It's caused by chronic inflammation from excess sugar.
Eat fat. Butter, cream, cheese, milk, meat etc...
Avoid refined sugar and keep carbs low.
The end
THATS HOW THEY LIVED 1950'S AND UNDER EARLY SETTLERS TIMES.. OTHER THAN SMOKING LIKE CHIMNEYS,,,1970'S TO NOW BREAK THROUGHS IN MEDICINE,MEDICATION AND LONGEVITY BUT AT A PRICE...
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Exactly brother Wiggs... This ^^^
Thank you for your thread, people need to be reeducated from the lies we grew up with.
This info will seriously save lives if used. Videos from one of my favorites.
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Before quoting any studies, you should find out the source and funding of the studies.
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Before quoting any studies, you should find out the source and funding of the studies.
That's actually how we got in this mess. The sugar industry funding "studies" against fat and preaching it as gospel. Low fat craze comes in and sugar reigns supreme and our health is compromised.
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I would also like to point out that i take & must take for life certain tablets now such as ASS 100 which is basically an aspirin.
It was also recommended that people "older" than say 50 should take 1 aspirin daily.
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I asked my doctor if I could stop taking my Statin meds and she flipped out and told me no way...I need to stay on them.....fuck that,I`m coming off them this week.
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That's actually how we got in this mess. The sugar industry funding "studies" against fat and preaching it as gospel. Low fat craze comes in and sugar reigns supreme and our health is compromised.
Totally agree - the sugar thing has been known for awhile.
As far as the LDL, I have read numerous things, talked to cardiologists, had personal experience and here's all I can say with confidence:
1. Statins do have side effects
2. They absolutely reduce LDL
3. Whether this is necessary or not is likely based on the individual. For example, if your LDL is high, and all your other markers are excellent, might not need. But if your LDL is high, and your calc score is bad, should probably get on them.
4. Most doctors believe that 80% of LDL is out of your control, so they don't seem to care about diet/exercise.
The are some fledgling health initiatives that are bubbling up - they want you to go to the doc when you're sick or have an emergency, but go to them for health management via bloodwork and telemedicine. They give you a doc, a nurtionist, a trainer, mental health, and a hormone optimization specialist.
Seems like the right direction to be going in.
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I asked my doctor if I could stop taking my Statin meds and she flipped out and told me no way...I need to stay on them.....fuck that,I`m coming off them this week.
be careful Wes
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my opinion is this.. listen to your own body but be very careful if you´ve a history of heart problems.
I didn´t listen & nearly went 6 foot under. Please be careful.
Not all Doctors are idiots.
If you need the Meds take them & please Wes do not just stop taking your Meds without medical supervision.
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If high cholesterol is so bad why do a percentage of people with clog type heart attacks have low cholesterol?
Because it is only one risk factor out of many risk factors. Cholesterol, smoking, family history, diabetes, etc. Those are all risk factors. You could ask the same question for any of the above, like why did this nondiabetic have a heart attack?
Another factor is why are most of the cholesterol studies are sponsored by the statin industry? Conflict of interest? They have lowered the safe cholesterol number so much through the years that most adults should be prescribed statins. I find something wrong with lowering the number to the point a huge percentage of adults should be on them.
Most drugs are like this. It isn't unique to statins. Most of the time the drug companies sponsor the studies. And you are absolutely correct that it is a bias.
Lastly have they proven statins extends life span? The best study on the side of taking statins is a two year increase. Some show no increase. Why are we taking a drug for decades when it's not proven to increase life span?
There are other outcome data besides extending lifespan. There are studies showing fewer heart attacks and fewer strokes.
I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else to take a statin. Just answering the questions.
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Of course there are multiple risk factors. HDL to LDL ratios, Cardio reactive protein inflammation; calcium scores, triglycerides, sugar levels, blood pressure and visceral fat levels.
The bottom line is life span. If you have a study showing a reduction in heart attacks and strokes it better correlate to fewer deaths or I would question it.
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I asked my doctor if I could stop taking my Statin meds and she flipped out and told me no way...I need to stay on them.....fuck that,I`m coming off them this week.
Doc: "Why do you want to come off statins?"
wes: "A hebrew gentleman told me they are bad"
Doc: "Oh, a fine Jewish doctor?"
wes: "a black flat earther"
Doc: "take your pills wes, I'll see you in six months"
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Doc: "Why do you want to come off statins?"
wes: "A hebrew gentleman told me they are bad"
Doc: "Oh, a fine Jewish doctor?"
wes: "a black flat earther. You see…the first Hebrews were black and from the planet Nibiru and……”
Doc quickly interjects: "take your pills wes, I'll see you in six months"
Lmao!
Tweaked for accuracy since I was in the room next door
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Doc: "Why do you want to come off statins?"
wes: "A hebrew gentleman told me they are bad"
Doc: "Oh, a fine Jewish doctor?"
wes: "a black flat earther"
Doc: "take your pills wes, I'll see you in six months"
Lolololol!
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Everything you think you know about cholesterol is a lie.
Heart disease is NOT caused by saturated fats. It's caused by chronic inflammation from excess sugar.
Eat fat. Butter, cream, cheese, milk, meat etc...
Avoid refined sugar and keep carbs low.
The end
agree
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Twenty years ago a doctor put me on statins. My body ached and I felt like shit for three months. My total cholesterol only went down 20 points in those three months. Stopped taking statins and never went back to that doctor. Started taking niacin and fish oil, one year later my total cholesterol was 187 , 70 points below my initial testing by the statin doctor.
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Twenty years ago a doctor put me on statins. My body ached and I felt like shit for three months. My total cholesterol only went down 20 points in those three months. Stopped taking statins and never went back to that doctor. Started taking niacin and fish oil, one year later my total cholesterol was 187 , 70 points below my initial testing by the statin doctor.
Usually gives people constant gas and bloating as well. Niacin and fish oil is much better.
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the studies that set the threshold for your doctor to precribe statins was funded by the same people who make statins.
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my opinion is this.. listen to your own body but be very careful if you´ve a history of heart problems.
I didn´t listen & nearly went 6 foot under. Please be careful.
Not all Doctors are idiots.
If you need the Meds take them & please Wes do not just stop taking your Meds without medical supervision.
Now you have gotten me worried. ;D
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Doc: "Why do you want to come off statins?"
wes: "A hebrew gentleman told me they are bad"
Doc: "Oh, a fine Jewish doctor?"
wes: "a black flat earther"
Doc: "take your pills wes, I'll see you in six months"
LOL ;D
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Doc: "Why do you want to come off statins?"
wes: "A hebrew gentleman told me they are bad"
Doc: "Oh, a fine Jewish doctor?"
wes: "a black flat earther"
Doc: "take your pills wes, I'll see you in six months"
:D ;D :D
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I got prescribed statins a few years ago, I stopped taking them after a couple of weeks due to the shoulder and neck pain and fatigue
When I went back to the docs she asked me why I hadnt renewed my script
I told her the reason and she said "Oh, OK it doesnt matter"
I asked why did she give me them in the first place if it didnt matter..
She said it was because my cholesterol was above the threshold.
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I got prescribed statins a few years ago, I stopped taking them after a couple of weeks due to the shoulder and neck pain and fatigue
When I went back to the docs she asked me why I hadnt renewed my script
I told her the reason and she said "Oh, OK it doesnt matter"
I asked why did she give me them in the first place if it didnt matter..
She said it was because my cholesterol was above the threshold.
I was on a mild statin and my bloodwork was great (my cholesterol is genetically high). Last two years it went out of whack, and I can't figure it out. Cardiologist actually took the time to talk to me for an hour about it, my concerns, his feelings about statins, etc. I listened and went on a stronger statin.
After 2 months, bloodwork went back to good. Almost to the previous levels.
But, I had a contstant muscle spasm constantly near my collarbone, random muscle pains that would just "happen" then disappear, and muscle tenderness in my sides (if you poked with a finger, it felt like an infection pain).....It was affecting my sleep. I didn't even think of the correlation right away, but when I looked up the side effects and boom, those were the main ones. Went on reddit and read similar stories.
Decided with doc to go off to a lower one. Two weeks later, all those sides are gone.
I also always forget about niacin, red brewer's yeast, etc....going to try those.
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I got prescribed statins a few years ago, I stopped taking them after a couple of weeks due to the shoulder and neck pain and fatigue
When I went back to the docs she asked me why I hadnt renewed my script
I told her the reason and she said "Oh, OK it doesnt matter"
I asked why did she give me them in the first place if it didnt matter..
She said it was because my cholesterol was above the threshold.
In the U.S. it's called "Standard of Care".
If the docs follow the protocol they can't be sued.
Most of the docs are now in large corporate group medical practices that mandate treatment protocols.
The insurance companies most likely are involved in this too.
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Usually gives people constant gas and bloating as well. Niacin and fish oil is much better.
I forgot the runs that statins gave me. I talked to two sisters in law that were on statins and they said the same.
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In the U.S. it's called "Standard of Care".
If the docs follow the protocol they can't be sued.
Most of the docs are now in large corporate group medical practices that mandate treatment protocols.
The insurance companies most likely are involved in this too.
Most doctors that work for big conglomerate plug your symptoms into the computer and it spits out the medicines sad to say. Doctors that are independent are a dying breed.
Last August I went to walk in clinic. I was sick as a dog with bronchitis type symptoms. Took a covid test the day before and it was negative. The doc said I had a cold and told me to get some rest. I think I got something like a decongestant from the doc. About 5 days later I was in the hospital with covid and it was the sickest I ever was in my 65 years. I have blood cancer and that could account why I couldn't fight the virus. My wife caught it at the same time and was well in around 8 days. I was sick for around 6 weeks. The point of the story was if the doc tested me I could have gotten paxlovid in time instead of telling me I had a cold. It only works if covid is only 5 days old.
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Most doctors aren't necessarily clueless or fooled by bad data. Lots of intelligent people think statins do have their place. Some advocate doing a lower dose, maybe EOD, and adding lots of Ubiquinol.
I have a problem with thinking ALL drugs are just an attempt to hurt people. Obviously a dream for a deug company is a veery effective drug with minimal side effects, that's how you make the most money. If a drug causes billion dollar class action lawsuits obviously that's not good business. If you remove tve incentive of money from drug companies, what's the alternative? Of course now they have AI to find new drugs but of course you could assume they have them programmed to cause as much harm as possible, but is it in their best interests? Drug developmebt is a fascinating topic I don't know much about, like where do you even begin?
Of course oldtimer1 will say anabolic steroid manufacturing is so complicated that no way the Chinese could do it, only Americans succeeded in the 50s. But then they have managed space travel and fentanyl is no problem, recombinant growrh hormone is no problem,. Steroids? Fuggetabout it.
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I forgot the runs that statins gave me. I talked to two sisters in law that were on statins and they said the same.
It has that effect on a lot of people.
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I was on a mild statin and my bloodwork was great (my cholesterol is genetically high). Last two years it went out of whack, and I can't figure it out. Cardiologist actually took the time to talk to me for an hour about it, my concerns, his feelings about statins, etc. I listened and went on a stronger statin.
After 2 months, bloodwork went back to good. Almost to the previous levels.
But, I had a contstant muscle spasm constantly near my collarbone, random muscle pains that would just "happen" then disappear, and muscle tenderness in my sides (if you poked with a finger, it felt like an infection pain).....It was affecting my sleep. I didn't even think of the correlation right away, but when I looked up the side effects and boom, those were the main ones. Went on reddit and read similar stories.
Decided with doc to go off to a lower one. Two weeks later, all those sides are gone.
I also always forget about niacin, red brewer's yeast, etc....going to try those.
Grape, glad youre doing good w/ this...
Oldtimer1, I wish you the best in your health battle you are going thru. All the best to you...
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Now you have gotten me worried. ;D
sorry ;D just i believe it´s better to reduce the dosage under supervision from your Doctor. what i did & i´ve no problem infact i was at my Doctor this morning & he said my blood results, EKG, Lung test were like that of a runner.
so i put it down to years of training & obviously the Stents are working well keeping that blood flow.
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It has that effect on a lot of people.
It can give you some Gas this is true. but i´ve never experienced such problems as mentioned.
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Statins are poison and should never be taken. They suppress the production of Coenzyme-Q which is essential for metabolism.
The problem with conventional medicine is that medical treatments are not based on sound principles of molecular biology. Its like designing and building an airplane or semiconductor chip without having any knowledge of the underlying scientific principles that such engineering is based on. Medicine is not a legitimate discipline of bio-engneering.
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My brother in law had inflammation in his hands from statins.
He stopped and it went away. Now he is back on them again.
So why are you still taking them?, I asked.
Because the doctor said to take them he said.
Ok...
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Anyone that gets their medical advice from YouTube videos should be laughed at.
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My brother in law had inflammation in his hands from statins.
He stopped and it went away. Now he is back on them again.
So why are you still taking them?, I asked.
Because the doctor said to take them he said.
Ok...
People are just lazy with their health. Why spend hours researching how to be healthy when they can just let the doctor choose for them?
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People are just lazy with their health. Why spend hours researching how to be healthy when they can just let the doctor choose for them?
If i had side effects i might also think differently but most on this thread have never had a heart attack so don´t really know what it´s like to lie down on the OP table & realise this might be very close.
I am no fan of any medication but the notion that all Doctors are just idiots is very foolish indeed.
Look at King Charles in the UK, he ranted for years about alternative medicine for Cancer & look what happened.
end of the day people have to make up their own minds about taking statins or to rely on some other methods.
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If i had side effects i might also think differently but most on this thread have never had a heart attack so don´t really know what it´s like to lie down on the OP table & realise this might be very close.
I am no fan of any medication but the notion that all Doctors are just idiots is very foolish indeed.
Look at King Charles in the UK, he ranted for years about alternative medicine for Cancer & look what happened.
end of the day people have to make up their own minds about taking statins or to rely on some other methods.
Taking statins will likely not prevent a heart attack.
It will reduce your cholesterol but studies show cholesterol levels have little to do with plaque deposits.
The use of statins is based on very old data which showed a correlation between cholesterol and heart disease.
Correlation is not causation however.
People with high cholesterol even live longer than those with low cholesterol.
Plaque deposits are caused by inflammation which is caused by eating sugar and refined carbs.
The plaque in your arteries has accumulated over many decades of your life, starting from when you were just a kid eating Sugar Smacks and other garbage.
Watch the video I posted above.
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Taking statins will likely not prevent a heart attack.
It will reduce your cholesterol but studies show cholesterol levels have little to do with plaque deposits.
The use of statins is based on very old data which showed a correlation between cholesterol and heart disease.
Correlation is not causation however.
People with high cholesterol even live longer than those with low cholesterol.
Plaque deposits are caused by inflammation which is caused by eating sugar and refined carbs.
The plaque in your arteries has accumulated over many decades of your life, starting from when you were just a kid eating Sugar Smacks and other garbage.
Watch the video I posted above.
I do not eat a lot of sugar, never have as an adult
I will listen to my Cardiologist
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Statins could be behind the increase in dementia
Cholesterol helps with the brains formation of memories.
Too low cholesterol is worse than high
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Statins could be behind the increase in dementia
Cholesterol helps with the brains formation of memories.
Too low cholesterol is worse than high
Could is not fact & no study has ever confirmed this.
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Could is not fact & no study has ever confirmed this.
low cholesterol inhibits the brains ability to form memories FACT
And of course there are no studies linking statins to dementia, they simply wouldnt get funding
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low cholesterol inhibits the brains ability to form memories FACT
And of course there are no studies linking statins to dementia, they simply wouldnt get funding
well as i wrote in a previous post everyone has to decide for themselves.
I am not sure where you get your facts from but maybe instead of Google you should inform yourself by visiting a Cardiologist or even two as i did for a different opinion, indeed more than two as the Hospital even said the same.
I was in Hamburg recently & spoke to a Professor so why should i listen to you.
But again i do not want to get into any arguements on here as i do not have the time or patience because i have my opinions & you have yours..
I know from your posts you like to question a lot of things which is OK but do not think you always know the truth.
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Statins could be behind the increase in dementia
Cholesterol helps with the brains formation of memories.
Too low cholesterol is worse than high
Cancer increases with low cholesterol as well.
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I also always forget about niacin, red brewer's yeast, etc....going to try those.
Niacin doesn't have that much supporting literature but it is recognised as an effective drug for reducing lab markers. It can theoretically tox out you liver.
My favorite "natural" cholesterol drug, Red Yeast Rice, which contains the statin lovastatin, also sold under the name Mevacor as a synthetic drug.
I always say if a "supplement" works it's in fact a DRUG. There is no difference between a supplement and drug per se. And there is no automatic guarantee a natural supp is in any way healthier than a "drug." In a lot of cases there is an attempt to make the natural drug more effective while having less side effects.
I'm saying obvious things to you but a lot of common folks still make a distinction.
If these arguments still don't make people understand, I say cocaine and morphine are natural, are they inherently harmless because of that fact?
Or even plain sugar? Of course some sugary fruits are still healthy because of how they are packaged, but the sugar is still the same thing - sugar. Add the fiber and whatever else they are packaged with and they become healthy, overall. Of course there are lots of people who are still against fruits. Fruit juice is one worst things you can put in your mouth. Some say kids should never have more than half a cup a day.
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Niacin doesn't have that much supporting literature but it is recognised as an effective drug for reducing lab markers. It can theoretically tox out you liver.
My favorite "natural" cholesterol drug, Red Yeast Rice, which contains the statin lovastatin, also sold under the name Mevacor as a synthetic drug.
I always say if a "supplement" works it's in fact a DRUG. There is no difference between a supplement and drug per se. And there is no automatic guarantee a natural supp is in any way healthier than a "drug." In a lot of cases there is an attempt to make the natural drug more effective while having less side effects.
I'm saying obvious things to you but a lot of common folks still make a distinction.
If these arguments still don't make people understand, I say cocaine and morphine are natural, are they inherently harmless because of that fact?
Or even plain sugar? Of course some sugary fruits are still healthy because of how they are packaged, but the sugar is still the same thing - sugar. Add the fiber and whatever else they are packaged with and they become healthy, overall. Of course there are lots of people who are still against fruits. Fruit juice is one worst things you can put in your mouth. Some say kids should never have more than half a cup a day.
Yeah, I read more since my post and am not going the niacin route. I will see what my lipid profile is in a month and go from there.
But I do think the body reacts differently to real fruit v fruit juice. If you drink fruit juice, it's a massive dose of sugar, easily digestible. I don't think the body was meant to consume sugar in that manner.
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Yeah, I read more since my post and am not going the niacin route. I will see what my lipid profile is in a month and go from there.
But I do think the body reacts differently to real fruit v fruit juice. If you drink fruit juice, it's a massive dose of sugar, easily digestible. I don't think the body was meant to consume sugar in that manner.
Yes the vehicle does matter. I know I wrote about potentially harmful substances in nature like narcotics, but reportedly there's little negative to chewing coca leaves in the Andes or whatever, because you're necessarily limiting the amount of cocaine ingested.
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Yeah, I read more since my post and am not going the niacin route. I will see what my lipid profile is in a month and go from there.
But I do think the body reacts differently to real fruit v fruit juice. If you drink fruit juice, it's a massive dose of sugar, easily digestible. I don't think the body was meant to consume sugar in that manner.
The fiber in real fruit slows down the absorption of the sugar in the gut but still too much sugar to eat fruit often.
Drinking fruit juice is like drinking sugar water or a can of soda pop.
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The fiber in real fruit slows down the absorption of the sugar in the gut but still too much sugar to eat fruit often.
Drinking fruit juice is like drinking sugar water or a can of soda pop.
Say you are eating a low to moderate amount of carbs in your "fitness" diet. Some have argued that the most beneficial and healthy carb sources in such a case would be fruits. Lots of micronutrients and vitamins and polyphenols and antioxidants. Apples, pear, banana, citrus fruits, even some exotic fruit juices with supposedly high antioxidants, and so on, as opposed to for example rice (I'm too lazy to look up the micronutrition of rice). I saw someone argue fruit heavy diets are often a cause of something called SIBO (again too lazy to look it up). Some bodybuilders were fans of fruits as almost the sole carb source, like Phil Hernon, others like coach John Parillo warned against fruit.
What do you think? I think at least on a deficit diet the fructose wouldn't hinder fat loss, instead would maybe be good for the metabolism. When it comes to sugar, fructose is thought to be the source of many modern ills, from sucrose (table sugar) and HFCS. I've looked up the type of sugar in different fruits at some point, where the types were shown as percentages. For example grapes are pure glucose (aka dextrose aka blood sugar). Fructose though is also advantageous for liver glycogen and anabolism but in too high a quantity it becomes detrimental.
I remember Tom Platz talking about his prep diets where a meal could be a can of tuna and an apple. :D
Regarding milk, a certain member talks about his brekkies of milk :D Does it have it's place in bb diet? Traditionally bodybuilders always cut milk in prep. I think it can have it's place. and Layne Norton has talked about the benefits of daily for metabolism (tied to calcium IIRC). Milk is soo anabolic ;D
"Milk consumption activates five major pathways stimulating mTORC1 via (1) growth factors, including growth hormone (GH), insulin, and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), (2) amino acids, especially branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), (3) milk fat-derived palmitic acid, (4) the milk sugar lactose (β-D-galactopyranosyl-(1→4)-D-glucose, and (5) epigenetic modifiers, especially milk exosome (MEX)-derived micro-ribonucleic acids (miRs)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000710/
Milk is so anabolic it can become dangerous according to these scientists. :D
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Say you are eating a low to moderate amount of carbs in your "fitness" diet. Some have argued that the most beneficial and healthy carb sources in such a case would be fruits. Lots of micronutrients and vitamins and polyphenols and antioxidants. Apples, pear, banana, citrus fruits, even some exotic fruit juices with supposedly high antioxidants, and so on, as opposed to for example rice (I'm too lazy to look up the micronutrition of rice). I saw someone argue fruit heavy diets are often a cause of something called SIBO (again too lazy to look it up). Some bodybuilders were fans of fruits as almost the sole carb source, like Phil Hernon, others like coach John Parillo warned against fruit.
What do you think? I think at least on a deficit diet the fructose wouldn't hinder fat loss, instead would maybe be good for the metabolism. When it comes to sugar, fructose is thought to be the source of many modern ills, from sucrose (table sugar) and HFCS. I've looked up the type of sugar in different fruits at some point, where the types were shown as percentages. For example grapes are pure glucose (aka dextrose aka blood sugar). Fructose though is also advantageous for liver glycogen and anabolism but in too high a quantity it becomes detrimental.
I remember Tom Platz talking about his prep diets where a meal could be a can of tuna and an apple. :D
Regarding milk, a certain member talks about his brekkies of milk :D Does it have it's place in bb diet? Traditionally bodybuilders always cut milk in prep. I think it can have it's place. and Layne Norton has talked about the benefits of daily for metabolism (tied to calcium IIRC). Milk is soo anabolic ;D
"Milk consumption activates five major pathways stimulating mTORC1 via (1) growth factors, including growth hormone (GH), insulin, and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), (2) amino acids, especially branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), (3) milk fat-derived palmitic acid, (4) the milk sugar lactose (β-D-galactopyranosyl-(1→4)-D-glucose, and (5) epigenetic modifiers, especially milk exosome (MEX)-derived micro-ribonucleic acids (miRs)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000710/
Milk is so anabolic it can become dangerous according to these scientists. :D
splatz said mentzer turned him on to a high carbs prep diet and he blew da fck up on it in 81 ;)
when menzter was in prep up to 80% of his cals came from carbs
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The fiber in real fruit slows down the absorption of the sugar in the gut but still too much sugar to eat fruit often.
Drinking fruit juice is like drinking sugar water or a can of soda pop.
I don't see harm in eating some fruit every day.
-
Say you are eating a low to moderate amount of carbs in your "fitness" diet. Some have argued that the most beneficial and healthy carb sources in such a case would be fruits. Lots of micronutrients and vitamins and polyphenols and antioxidants. Apples, pear, banana, citrus fruits, even some exotic fruit juices with supposedly high antioxidants, and so on, as opposed to for example rice (I'm too lazy to look up the micronutrition of rice). I saw someone argue fruit heavy diets are often a cause of something called SIBO (again too lazy to look it up). Some bodybuilders were fans of fruits as almost the sole carb source, like Phil Hernon, others like coach John Parillo warned against fruit.
What do you think? I think at least on a deficit diet the fructose wouldn't hinder fat loss, instead would maybe be good for the metabolism. When it comes to sugar, fructose is thought to be the source of many modern ills, from sucrose (table sugar) and HFCS. I've looked up the type of sugar in different fruits at some point, where the types were shown as percentages. For example grapes are pure glucose (aka dextrose aka blood sugar). Fructose though is also advantageous for liver glycogen and anabolism but in too high a quantity it becomes detrimental.
I remember Tom Platz talking about his prep diets where a meal could be a can of tuna and an apple. :D
Regarding milk, a certain member talks about his brekkies of milk :D Does it have it's place in bb diet? Traditionally bodybuilders always cut milk in prep. I think it can have it's place. and Layne Norton has talked about the benefits of daily for metabolism (tied to calcium IIRC). Milk is soo anabolic ;D
"Milk consumption activates five major pathways stimulating mTORC1 via (1) growth factors, including growth hormone (GH), insulin, and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), (2) amino acids, especially branched-chain amino acids (BCAAs), (3) milk fat-derived palmitic acid, (4) the milk sugar lactose (β-D-galactopyranosyl-(1→4)-D-glucose, and (5) epigenetic modifiers, especially milk exosome (MEX)-derived micro-ribonucleic acids (miRs)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8000710/
Milk is so anabolic it can become dangerous according to these scientists. :D
(Table sugar is 50% sucrose and 50% fructose by the way. Fructose is inflammatory.)
This type of diet is for health and has nothing to do with bodybuilding or anything else.
If you are a competitive athlete or a bodybuilder then it may not be optimal.
The purpose of this style of eating is to lower insulin production and increase insulin sensitivity and thus improve metabolic health.
Best foods to eat:
Meat, eggs, fish
Non-starch vegetables (green like broccoli)
Berries (but sparingly)
Cheese, cream
Nuts, seeds
Butter, healthy oils (no seed oils)
Foods not to eat or too eat only occasionally:
Juices
Fruit (not often)
Flour products
Grains (rice, wheat, cereals, etc.)
Sugars
Low fat foods
Trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated foods)
Processed foods
Pick up your local supermarket flyer. Note the number of processed foods advertised for sale.
When in the store note how much of the food for sale is processed foods.
It's amazing.
Note on the labels how many of these processed/prepared foods contain inflammatory seed oils (canola, soybean, rapeseed, corn, vegetable).
-
I don't see harm in eating some fruit every day.
Eating fruit is like eating sugar.
If you don't see anything wrong with eating sugar then keep eating fruit everyday and wash it down with soda pop.
While your at it put several tsp. of sugar in your coffee and on your morning bowl of Wheat Chex.
Occasionally eating fruit is ok but everyday is too often.
The negative effects of eating sugars take decades to appear (diabetes, metabolic dysfunction, etc.)
You can be thin and have diabetes too.
Sugar causes inflammation in your blood vessels which results in the formation of arterial plaque.
High glycemic processed carbs affect your metabolism just like eating sugar.
The standard western diet (Food Pyramid) is 300-400 grams of carbs a day, and most of those carbs are highly processed.
The Bhanky Diet.
-
Eating fruit is like eating sugar.
If you don't see anything wrong with eating sugar then keep eating fruit everyday and wash it down with soda pop.
While your at it put several tsp. of sugar in your coffee and on your morning bowl of Wheat Chex.
Occasionally eating fruit is ok but everyday is too often.
The negative effects of eating sugars take decades to appear (diabetes, metabolic dysfunction, etc.)
You can be thin and have diabetes too.
Sugar causes inflammation in your blood vessels which results in the formation of arterial plaque.
High glycemic processed carbs affect your metabolism just like eating sugar.
The standard western diet (Food Pyramid) is 300-400 grams of carbs a day, and most of those carbs are highly processed.
The Bhanky Diet.
You can eat fruit daily no problem if your diet is in check. It will not give you diabetes.
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You can eat fruit daily no problem if your diet is in check. It will not give you diabetes.
I don't think so either. People went a bit nuts with the anti-carb/anti-sugar craze.
It wouldn't surprise me if many high carb eaters have better insulin sensitivity than many anti- carb zealots... haven't looked at it so this is just a hunch.
Some bodybuilders amazingly have high insulin sensitivity despite high carb diets, inject enough insulin enough for 5 diabetics and take growth hormone. Anabolics are great for sensitivity, those who have used tren when dieting know about the crashed glucose on occasion.
-
(Table sugar is 50% sucrose and 50% fructose by the way. Fructose is inflammatory.)
This type of diet is for health and has nothing to do with bodybuilding or anything else.
If you are a competitive athlete or a bodybuilder then it may not be optimal.
The purpose of this style of eating is to lower insulin production and increase insulin sensitivity and thus improve metabolic health.
Best foods to eat:
Meat, eggs, fish
Non-starch vegetables (green like broccoli)
Berries (but sparingly)
Cheese, cream
Nuts, seeds
Butter, healthy oils (no seed oils)
Foods not to eat or too eat only occasionally:
Juices
Fruit (not often)
Flour products
Grains (rice, wheat, cereals, etc.)
Sugars
Low fat foods
Trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated foods)
Processed foods
Pick up your local supermarket flyer. Note the number of processed foods advertised for sale.
When in the store note how much of the food for sale is processed foods.
It's amazing.
Note on the labels how many of these processed/prepared foods contain inflammatory seed oils (canola, soybean, rapeseed, corn, vegetable).
What oils do you cook in? Olive oil? Or do you use butter or tallow or something?
-
What oils do you cook in? Olive oil? Or do you use butter or tallow or something?
I use lard from animal fat most of the time. Otherwise olive oil.
You could use butter.
I save the bacon or other meat drippings to cook with later.
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I use lard from animal fat most of the time. Otherwise olive oil.
You could use butter.
I save the bacon or other meat drippings to cook with later.
Beef Dripping pal.. ;)
-
Beef Dripping pal.. ;)
Swifty has updated me on definitions.
Lard is from pork.
Tallow is from beef or sheep.
I use drippings from the fat of beef and pork.
Be aware if you call someone a "fat tub of lard" you are saying a "fat tub of pork fat".
:D
-
You can eat fruit daily no problem if your diet is in check. It will not give you diabetes.
Good for vitamins and fiber.
-
More support for what Wiggs, IroNat, and others have already pointed out:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b251ae63d78acf9389a8fce146580483ecdd2253/57_6_1416_849/master/1416.jpg?width=465&dpr=1&s=none)
The study below showed that what increases your risk of coronary heart disease the most by far are diabetes and insulin resistance, not high LDL cholesterol.
After diabetes and insulin resistance, the things that increase your risk of coronary heart disease the most are metabolic syndrome, obesity, smoking, hypertension, parental history of myocardial infarction, physical inactivity, very low HDL, high Triglycerides, high lipoprotein (B, A-I, (a)), high LDL in that order.
High LDL cholesterol had one of the lowest relative risks.
Association of Lipid, Inflammatory, and Metabolic Biomarkers With Age at Onset for Incident Coronary Heart Disease
Published online 2021
"Of more than 50 clinical and biomarker risk factors examined, diabetes and lipoprotein insulin resistance had the highest relative risk, particularly for premature coronary heart disease"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7818181/
NOTE: "Oxidized" LDL Cholesterol does increase the risk of coronary heart disease and many other chronic conditions. Statins do nothing to minimize this. More on that below.
Statins increase the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, thereby increasing the risk of coronary heart disease:
Statins and risk of type 2 diabetes: mechanism and clinical implications
"Statin therapy increased the risk of incident T2D by a 9%. Preiss et al. (25) reported in another meta-analysis including 32 752 participants from five statin trials that there was a significant increase in fasting glucose levels and that the risk of T2D increased by 12%."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10546337/
Statin Treatment-Induced Development of Type 2 Diabetes: From Clinical Evidence to Mechanistic Insights
"Despite the safety and relative tolerability of statins, observational studies, clinical trials and meta-analyses indicate an increased risk of developing new-onset type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM) after long-term statin treatment. It has been shown that statins can impair insulin sensitivity and secretion by pancreatic β-cells and increase insulin resistance in peripheral tissues."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369709/
Statins and Diabetes: What You Should Know
"Some research has found that using statins increases blood sugar because statin use can stop your body’s insulin from doing its job properly. This can put people who use statins at higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes."
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/Statins_Diabetes.html
What else increases the risk of type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and coronary heart disease? It's NOT saturated fat consumption. It's overconsuming sugar, other carbs, and industrially processed seed ("vegetable") oils (safflower, grape seed, sunflower, corn, cottonseed, soybean, rice bran, peanut, canola, etc.) :
50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat
"In the 1960s, the sugar industry funded research that downplayed the risks of sugar and highlighted the hazards of fat, according to a newly published article in JAMA Internal Medicine.
The article draws on internal documents to show that an industry group called the Sugar Research Foundation wanted to "refute" concerns about sugar's possible role in heart disease. The SRF then sponsored research by Harvard scientists that did just that. The result was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1967, with no disclosure of the sugar industry funding."
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research
"Early warning signals of the coronary heart disease (CHD) risk of sugar (sucrose) emerged in the 1950s. We examined Sugar Research Foundation (SRF) internal documents, historical reports, and statements relevant to early debates about the dietary causes of CHD and assembled findings chronologically into a narrative case study. The SRF sponsored its first CHD research project in 1965, a literature review published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which singled out fat and cholesterol as the dietary causes of CHD and downplayed evidence that sucrose consumption was also a risk factor. The SRF set the review’s objective, contributed articles for inclusion, and received drafts. The SRF’s funding and role was not disclosed. Together with other recent analyses of sugar industry documents, our findings suggest the industry sponsored a research program in the 1960s and 1970s that successfully cast doubt about the hazards of sucrose while promoting fat as the dietary culprit in CHD. Policymaking committees should consider giving less weight to food industry–funded studies and include mechanistic and animal studies as well as studies appraising the effect of added sugars on multiple CHD biomarkers and disease development."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2548255
Effects of Dietary Fructose Restriction on Liver Fat, De Novo Lipogenesis, and Insulin Kinetics
"Consumption of sugar is associated with obesity, type 2 diabetes mellitus, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and cardiovascular disease."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28579536/
Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis
"The consumption of the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid has dramatically increased in the western world primarily in the form of vegetable oils. OxLDL is thought to play an important role in atherosclerosis formation; however, it is the oxidised linoleic acid contained in LDL that leads to harmful OXLAMs, which induces atherosclerosis and CHD. Thus, reducing the amount of dietary linoleic acid, mainly from industrial vegetable/seed oils, will reduce the amount of linoleic acid in LDL and likely reduce oxLDL as well as the risk for CHDcoronary heart disease.
In summary, numerous lines of evidence show that the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid promotes oxidative stress, oxidised LDL, chronic low-grade inflammation and atherosclerosis, and is likely a major dietary culprit for causing CHD, especially when consumed in the form of industrial seed oils commonly referred to as ‘vegetable oils’."
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898
Linoleic Acid: A Narrative Review of the Effects of Increased Intake in the Standard American Diet and Associations with Chronic Disease
"The dramatic increase in LA intake in the standard American diet appears to contribute to the simultaneous rise in a wide variety of chronic diseases. While modest amounts of LA support human health, deleterious mechanisms of excessive LA intake include the formation of oxidized linoleic acid metabolites (OXLAMs) and a suboptimal cardiolipin composition. These disruptions to optimal physiology cause impairments in mitochondrial function, compromised metabolic function, and excessive inflammation, all of which contribute to obesity, cardiovascular disease, cancer, and many other chronic conditions that plague our healthcare system."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10386285/
Some studies show that there might be some benefits to statins for those who have already had a heart attack or are already suffering from coronary heart disease. How significant are these "benefits"?
Evaluating the Association Between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Reduction and Relative and Absolute Effects of Statin Treatment
"The study results suggest that the absolute benefits of statins are modest, may not be strongly mediated through the degree of LDL-C reduction, and should be communicated to patients as part of informed clinical decision-making as well as to inform clinical guidelines and policy."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2790055
The effect of statins on average survival in randomised trials, an analysis of end point postponement
"The median postponement of death for primary and secondary prevention trials were 3.2 and 4.1 days, respectively.
Statin treatment results in a surprisingly small average gain in overall survival within the trials’ running time. For patients whose life expectancy is limited or who have adverse effects of treatment, withholding statin therapy should be considered."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26408281/
That's right. For people who already had a heart attack or are already suffering from coronary heart disease, a statin may extend their life by 4.1 days on average. ::)
One more thing. The so called low-fat "heart-healthy" diet that has been recommended since the 70s to prevent or treat coronary heart disease has been proven to actually increase the risk type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and coronary heart disease:
Hiding unhealthy heart outcomes in a low-fat diet trial
IR = Insulin Resistance
T2DM = Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus
"The Women’s Health Initiative Randomized Controlled Dietary Modification Trial (WHIRCDMT) was designed to test whether the US Department of Agriculture’s 1977 Dietary Guidelines for Americans protects against coronary heart disease (CHD) and other chronic diseases. The only significant finding in the original 2006 WHIRCDMT publication was that postmenopausal women with CHD randomised to a low-fat ‘heart-healthy’ diet in 1993 were at 26% greater risk of developing additional CHD events compared with women with CHD eating the control diet. A 2017 WHIRCDMT publication includes data for an additional 5 years of follow-up. It finds that CHD risk in this subgroup of postmenopausal women had increased further to 47%–61%.
This set of findings from four different studies effectively ends the debate about which diet should be eaten to lower the risk of CHD, especially in those with IR.
The answer is that the prescribed diet must prevent the development of the clinical features of IR leading to T2DM. The two diets shown to achieve this are the restricted low-calorie diet developed by Lim et al102 and the ad libitum low-carbohydrate higher-healthy-fat ketogenic diet as reported by a number of research teams.79–83 86–88 90
According to the principle of first do no harm, it now becomes the ethical responsibility of all those managing persons with established CHD or at risk of its development because they have IR, especially if they have T2DM, not to prescribe the never-proven17 18 103 and now-disproven low-fat heart-healthy DGA diet."
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/8/2/e001680
Long-Term Effects of a Novel Continuous Remote Care Intervention Including Nutritional Ketosis for the Management of Type 2 Diabetes: A 2-Year Non-randomized Clinical Trial
"Three non-pharmaceutical approaches have demonstrated high rates of at least temporary T2D diabetes reversal or remission: bariatric surgery, very low calorie diets (VLCD), and nutritional ketosis achieved through carbohydrate restriction (8–10). In controlled clinical trials, each approach has demonstrated improved glycemic control and CVD risk factors, reduced pharmaceutical dependence, and weight loss. The three approaches show a similar time-course with glycemic control preceding weight loss by weeks or months, suggesting potential overlap of mechanisms (11, 12)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6561315/
^^^^ "Overlap of mechanisms": All 3 approaches reduce daily total carb consumption.
-
More support for what Wiggs, IroNat, and others have already pointed out:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b251ae63d78acf9389a8fce146580483ecdd2253/57_6_1416_849/master/1416.jpg?width=465&dpr=1&s=none)
The study below showed that what increases your risk of coronary heart disease the most by far are diabetes and insulin resistance, not high LDL cholesterol.
After diabetes and insulin resistance, the things that increase your risk of coronary heart disease the most are metabolic syndrome, obesity, smoking, hypertension, parental history of myocardial infarction, physical inactivity, very low HDL, high Triglycerides, high lipoprotein (B, A-I, (a)), high LDL in that order.
High LDL cholesterol had one of the lowest relative risks.
Association of Lipid, Inflammatory, and Metabolic Biomarkers With Age at Onset for Incident Coronary Heart Disease
Published online 2021
"Of more than 50 clinical and biomarker risk factors examined, diabetes and lipoprotein insulin resistance had the highest relative risk, particularly for premature coronary heart disease"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7818181/
NOTE: "Oxidized" LDL Cholesterol does increase the risk of coronary heart disease and many other chronic conditions. Statins do nothing to minimize this. More on that below.
Statins increase the risk of developing type 2 diabetes, thereby increasing the risk of coronary heart disease:
Statins and risk of type 2 diabetes: mechanism and clinical implications
"Statin therapy increased the risk of incident T2D by a 9%. Preiss et al. (25) reported in another meta-analysis including 32 752 participants from five statin trials that there was a significant increase in fasting glucose levels and that the risk of T2D increased by 12%."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10546337/
Statin Treatment-Induced Development of Type 2 Diabetes: From Clinical Evidence to Mechanistic Insights
"Despite the safety and relative tolerability of statins, observational studies, clinical trials and meta-analyses indicate an increased risk of developing new-onset type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM) after long-term statin treatment. It has been shown that statins can impair insulin sensitivity and secretion by pancreatic β-cells and increase insulin resistance in peripheral tissues."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369709/
Statins and Diabetes: What You Should Know
"Some research has found that using statins increases blood sugar because statin use can stop your body’s insulin from doing its job properly. This can put people who use statins at higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes."
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/library/features/Statins_Diabetes.html
What else increases the risk of type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and coronary heart disease? It's NOT saturated fat consumption. It's overconsuming sugar, other carbs, and industrially processed seed ("vegetable") oils (safflower, grape seed, sunflower, corn, cottonseed, soybean, rice bran, peanut, canola, etc.) :
50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat
"In the 1960s, the sugar industry funded research that downplayed the risks of sugar and highlighted the hazards of fat, according to a newly published article in JAMA Internal Medicine.
The article draws on internal documents to show that an industry group called the Sugar Research Foundation wanted to "refute" concerns about sugar's possible role in heart disease. The SRF then sponsored research by Harvard scientists that did just that. The result was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1967, with no disclosure of the sugar industry funding."
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research
"Early warning signals of the coronary heart disease (CHD) risk of sugar (sucrose) emerged in the 1950s. We examined Sugar Research Foundation (SRF) internal documents, historical reports, and statements relevant to early debates about the dietary causes of CHD and assembled findings chronologically into a narrative case study. The SRF sponsored its first CHD research project in 1965, a literature review published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which singled out fat and cholesterol as the dietary causes of CHD and downplayed evidence that sucrose consumption was also a risk factor. The SRF set the review’s objective, contributed articles for inclusion, and received drafts. The SRF’s funding and role was not disclosed. Together with other recent analyses of sugar industry documents, our findings suggest the industry sponsored a research program in the 1960s and 1970s that successfully cast doubt about the hazards of sucrose while promoting fat as the dietary culprit in CHD. Policymaking committees should consider giving less weight to food industry–funded studies and include mechanistic and animal studies as well as studies appraising the effect of added sugars on multiple CHD biomarkers and disease development."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2548255
Effects of Dietary Fructose Restriction on Liver Fat, De Novo Lipogenesis, and Insulin Kinetics
"Consumption of sugar is associated with obesity, type 2 diabetes mellitus, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and cardiovascular disease."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28579536/
Omega-6 vegetable oils as a driver of coronary heart disease: the oxidized linoleic acid hypothesis
"The consumption of the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid has dramatically increased in the western world primarily in the form of vegetable oils. OxLDL is thought to play an important role in atherosclerosis formation; however, it is the oxidised linoleic acid contained in LDL that leads to harmful OXLAMs, which induces atherosclerosis and CHD. Thus, reducing the amount of dietary linoleic acid, mainly from industrial vegetable/seed oils, will reduce the amount of linoleic acid in LDL and likely reduce oxLDL as well as the risk for CHDcoronary heart disease.
In summary, numerous lines of evidence show that the omega-6 polyunsaturated fat linoleic acid promotes oxidative stress, oxidised LDL, chronic low-grade inflammation and atherosclerosis, and is likely a major dietary culprit for causing CHD, especially when consumed in the form of industrial seed oils commonly referred to as ‘vegetable oils’."
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898
Linoleic Acid: A Narrative Review of the Effects of Increased Intake in the Standard American Diet and Associations with Chronic Disease
"The dramatic increase in LA intake in the standard American diet appears to contribute to the simultaneous rise in a wide variety of chronic diseases. While modest amounts of LA support human health, deleterious mechanisms of excessive LA intake include the formation of oxidized linoleic acid metabolites (OXLAMs) and a suboptimal cardiolipin composition. These disruptions to optimal physiology cause impairments in mitochondrial function, compromised metabolic function, and excessive inflammation, all of which contribute to obesity, cardiovascular disease, cancer, and many other chronic conditions that plague our healthcare system."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10386285/
Some studies show that there might be some benefits to statins for those who have already had a heart attack or are already suffering from coronary heart disease. How significant are these "benefits"?
Evaluating the Association Between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Reduction and Relative and Absolute Effects of Statin Treatment
"The study results suggest that the absolute benefits of statins are modest, may not be strongly mediated through the degree of LDL-C reduction, and should be communicated to patients as part of informed clinical decision-making as well as to inform clinical guidelines and policy."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2790055
The effect of statins on average survival in randomised trials, an analysis of end point postponement
"The median postponement of death for primary and secondary prevention trials were 3.2 and 4.1 days, respectively.
Statin treatment results in a surprisingly small average gain in overall survival within the trials’ running time. For patients whose life expectancy is limited or who have adverse effects of treatment, withholding statin therapy should be considered."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26408281/
That's right. For people who already had a heart attack or are already suffering from coronary heart disease, a statin may extend their life by 4.1 days on average. ::)
One more thing. The so called low-fat "heart-healthy" diet that has been recommended since the 70s to prevent or treat coronary heart disease has been proven to actually increase the risk type 2 diabetes, insulin resistance, and coronary heart disease:
Hiding unhealthy heart outcomes in a low-fat diet trial
IR = Insulin Resistance
T2DM = Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus
"The Women’s Health Initiative Randomized Controlled Dietary Modification Trial (WHIRCDMT) was designed to test whether the US Department of Agriculture’s 1977 Dietary Guidelines for Americans protects against coronary heart disease (CHD) and other chronic diseases. The only significant finding in the original 2006 WHIRCDMT publication was that postmenopausal women with CHD randomised to a low-fat ‘heart-healthy’ diet in 1993 were at 26% greater risk of developing additional CHD events compared with women with CHD eating the control diet. A 2017 WHIRCDMT publication includes data for an additional 5 years of follow-up. It finds that CHD risk in this subgroup of postmenopausal women had increased further to 47%–61%.
This set of findings from four different studies effectively ends the debate about which diet should be eaten to lower the risk of CHD, especially in those with IR.
The answer is that the prescribed diet must prevent the development of the clinical features of IR leading to T2DM. The two diets shown to achieve this are the restricted low-calorie diet developed by Lim et al102 and the ad libitum low-carbohydrate higher-healthy-fat ketogenic diet as reported by a number of research teams.79–83 86–88 90
According to the principle of first do no harm, it now becomes the ethical responsibility of all those managing persons with established CHD or at risk of its development because they have IR, especially if they have T2DM, not to prescribe the never-proven17 18 103 and now-disproven low-fat heart-healthy DGA diet."
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/8/2/e001680
Long-Term Effects of a Novel Continuous Remote Care Intervention Including Nutritional Ketosis for the Management of Type 2 Diabetes: A 2-Year Non-randomized Clinical Trial
"Three non-pharmaceutical approaches have demonstrated high rates of at least temporary T2D diabetes reversal or remission: bariatric surgery, very low calorie diets (VLCD), and nutritional ketosis achieved through carbohydrate restriction (8–10). In controlled clinical trials, each approach has demonstrated improved glycemic control and CVD risk factors, reduced pharmaceutical dependence, and weight loss. The three approaches show a similar time-course with glycemic control preceding weight loss by weeks or months, suggesting potential overlap of mechanisms (11, 12)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6561315/
^^^^ "Overlap of mechanisms": All 3 approaches reduce daily total carb consumption.
Think of the countless lives that could have been prolonged. They did this on purpose for money and population control.
-
Think of the countless lives that could have been prolonged. They did this on purpose for money and population control.
Eggxactly!
(https://media.istockphoto.com/id/184281644/photo/breakfast-food-with-a-smile.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=tJ-7mLRrrp8IVfgapnMU-_xvIdJUHB8up_1s37zamT4=)
Not only prolonged lives, but improved quality of life too. Today most people live in pain and misery because of their poor health. I was one of them for a while, until I finally saw the light and now I am enjoying the best quality of life I've had in many years.
This is why we can't trust the medical establishment, public health officials, big pharma, the food industry, and politicians to look out for our best interest. We must take our personal health into our own hands.
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Eggxactly!
(https://media.istockphoto.com/id/184281644/photo/breakfast-food-with-a-smile.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=tJ-7mLRrrp8IVfgapnMU-_xvIdJUHB8up_1s37zamT4=)
Not only prolonged lives, but improved quality of life too. Today most people live in pain and misery because of their poor health. I was one of them for a while, until I finally saw the light and now I am enjoying the best quality of life I've had in many years.
This is why we can't trust the medical establishment, public health officials, big pharma, the food industry, and politicians to look out for our best interest. We must take our personal health into our own hands.
100% I did the same.
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Eating fruit is like eating sugar.
If you don't see anything wrong with eating sugar then keep eating fruit everyday and wash it down with soda pop.
While your at it put several tsp. of sugar in your coffee and on your morning bowl of Wheat Chex.
Occasionally eating fruit is ok but everyday is too often.
The negative effects of eating sugars take decades to appear (diabetes, metabolic dysfunction, etc.)
You can be thin and have diabetes too.
Sugar causes inflammation in your blood vessels which results in the formation of arterial plaque.
High glycemic processed carbs affect your metabolism just like eating sugar.
The standard western diet (Food Pyramid) is 300-400 grams of carbs a day, and most of those carbs are highly processed.
The Bhanky Diet.
this is bullshit , not all sugar is the same , sugar in a apple is completely different than sugar in a can of pop, if i wake up in the morning and eat a apple it makes me feel incredible before i work out , if i wake up and drink a can a coke i will have a hard crash right off the bat
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this is bullshit , not all sugar is the same , sugar in a apple is completely different than sugar in a can of pop, if i wake up in the morning and eat a apple it makes me feel incredible before i work out , if i wake up and drink a can a coke i will have a hard crash right off the bat
A Coke has 39 grams of sugar in it. In the U.S. it is high fructose corn syrup sugar.
An apple has an average of 3 grams of sugar.
The sugar is basically the same but it is also absorbed more slowly because of the fiber in the apple.
So, of course it could make you feel different.
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A Coke has 39 grams of sugar in it. In the U.S. it is high fructose corn syrup sugar.
An apple has an average of 3 grams of sugar.
The sugar is basically the same but it is also absorbed more slowly because of the fiber in the apple.
So, of course it could make you feel different.
im glad you're willing to admit you are wrong
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Here is a conversation that has never happened:
"Dude, you've really let yourself go".
"It's the blueberries man. Fuckin' blueberries"
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Here is a conversation that has never happened:
"Dude, you've really let yourself go".
"It's the blueberries man. Fuckin' blueberries"
bingo
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im glad you're willing to admit you are wrong
39 grams sugar in a Coke and 3 grams in an apple.
39 grams is about 10 tsp of sugar.
3 grams is just under 1 tsp.
Do you think eating 10 tsp of sugar might affect you differently than less than 1 tsp?
Same sugar. Different amount.
Would 10 beers affect you differently than 1 beer?
Capisce?
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/66r2EQo5nPQZO/giphy.gif)
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39 grams sugar in a Coke and 3 grams in an apple.
39 grams is about 10 tsp of sugar.
3 grams is just under 1 tsp.
Do you think eating 10 tsp of sugar might affect you differently than less than 1 tsp?
Same sugar. Different amount.
Would 10 beers affect you differently than 1 beer?
Capisce?
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/66r2EQo5nPQZO/giphy.gif)
i dont think all sugar is the same , there are lots of different kinds (Glucose.Fructose Sucrose,Lactose)and i think they affect people differantly some are worse than others , apple,banana, gaterade = im totally fine , can of coke or ice cream = diabetic coma
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i dont think all sugar is the same , there are lots of different kinds (Glucose.Fructose Sucrose,Lactose)and i think they affect people differantly some are worse than others , apple,banana, gaterade = im totally fine , can of coke or ice cream = diabetic coma
Sucrose as in a can of Coke or a Snickers is actually low on the glycemic index. You can go into a "diabetic coma" more easily with say a whey shake and a quick complex healthy carb. I'm sure many here have experienced hypo from say whey and cream of rice or whatever. The potentially unhealthy part of sucrose from a Coke (aka table sugar, which is 50% glucose and 50% fructose) is the fructose part. It sort of wreaks havoc in the liver and causes problems when used in excess.You say you are fine with Gatorade, here the table sugar is actually slowing things down. Sucrose is 65 on the GI whereas the glucose (dextrose) is 100. I never really crash from soda but whey and a quick carb, even if not sugar, has me sweating and shaking often. Anyone else notice this?
Another hypo inducer for me is kebab with rice, for some reason. :D
I told my friend that he could get away with some candy on a prep too, I said if he chooses something glucose based it's no problem around workouts for example, just have to exercise strict portion control. He spoke with a certain pro and he was calling me about "what is this candy you can eat on a diet?!" Lol. He had been coached by Milos and I'm positive Milos told him the same many times. You could even drink some Coke and get ripped to shreds, reportedly Cutler did that a lot. Vince Taylor said he had to have his Coca Cola, no matter the season. "If it fits your macros" pretty much :D
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i dont think all sugar is the same , there are lots of different kinds (Glucose.Fructose Sucrose,Lactose)and i think they affect people differantly some are worse than others , apple,banana, gaterade = im totally fine , can of coke or ice cream = diabetic coma
Yes, there are different sugars.
However, fruit sugar is fructose.
High fructose corn syrup is fructose.
The sugar in apples is fructose.
The sugar in Coke (USA) is high fructose corn syrup.
Some fruits are better to eat because they contain less sugar and the fiber in them slows down the absorption of the sugar.
Unless otherwise stated as being cane sugar, soft drinks and juices are fructose sugar.
No sugar is good for you to eat. It is a treat like a dessert, and should be eaten sparingly.
Fructose is the worst sugar to eat.
No health professional would recommend you to eat sugar.
Check your food labels to see how many are made with high fructose corn syrup and seed oils.
The reason is because it is cheap to use.
It's interesting how people will argue about how good it is that they eat things that are unhealthy.
It's ok to eat junk occasionally but not often.
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Which fruits have the highest amount of sugar?
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/fruit-with-the-highest-sugar
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High fructose corn syrup is fructose.
There has been this panic about hogh fructose corn syrup, but scientifically it behaves almost identically with table sugar (sugar). Not that that is healthy either, but nor is it worse.
I don't necessarily feel the authorities have been out to poison the populace intentionally. Yes there are special interest groups pushing their wares, but it can also be that certain foods are politically motivated because in scarcity you may want to push what is cheap and easily available. Then we had the eggs thing, but it did sound logical that eggs would push cholesterol being so high in cholesterol right? Turned out not to be the case, but science evolves. At least here all docs have pushed the mediterranean diet for decades as being as close to ideal as possible, and it's high in fish, olive oil, vegetables... I really don't think the mediterranean diet was an attempt to poison people and make them sick, do you? Or maybe the fishing industry and olive oil industry and vegetable industry were pulling strings? I'm not sure but I bet the mediterranean diet is also something that is pushed in the US?
I think that billionare freak longevity chaser said 50% of his calories came from olive oil lol.
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I don't necessarily feel the authorities have been out to poison the populace intentionally.
yes they are , the clot shot is a bio experiment to merge man and machine , they are using the spike protein/silicone to make our body's adaptable to metal
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whey and a quick carb, even if not sugar, has me sweating and shaking often. Anyone else notice this?
i get that too , is it not from the artificial sweetener triggering ?
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Yes, there are different sugars.
However, fruit sugar is fructose.
High fructose corn syrup is fructose.
The sugar in apples is fructose.
The sugar in Coke (USA) is high fructose corn syrup.
Some fruits are better to eat because they contain less sugar and the fiber in them slows down the absorption of the sugar.
Unless otherwise stated as being cane sugar, soft drinks and juices are fructose sugar.
No sugar is good for you to eat. It is a treat like a dessert, and should be eaten sparingly.
Fructose is the worst sugar to eat.
No health professional would recommend you to eat sugar.
Check your food labels to see how many are made with high fructose corn syrup and seed oils.
The reason is because it is cheap to use.
It's interesting how people will argue about how good it is that they eat things that are unhealthy.
It's ok to eat junk occasionally rarely but not often.
Sugar is poison. I avoid it whenever possible.
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Sugar is poison. I avoid it whenever possible.
Hanky says sugar is a superfood and he is a bodybuilding champion.
;D
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Hanky says sugar is a superfood and he is a bodybuilding champion.
;D
Hanky-B has a superhero metabolism and adamantium skeleton like Wolverine.
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Yeah, I read more since my post and am not going the niacin route.
Good call.
A terminal metabolite of niacin promotes vascular inflammation and contributes to cardiovascular disease risk
Published: February 19, 2024
MACE = major adverse cardiovascular events
CVD = cardiovascular disease
Serum levels of the terminal metabolites of excess niacin:
2PY = N1-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide
4PY = N1-methyl-4-pyridone-3-carboxamid
"Collectively, these results indicate that the terminal breakdown products of excess niacin, 2PY and 4PY, are both associated with residual CVD risk. They also suggest an inflammation-dependent mechanism underlying the clinical association between 4PY and MACE."
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02793-8
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On the subject of fruit just remember most modern fruits have been selectivity breed over thousands of years and part of that cultivating process was to make them unnaturally sweeter (higher sugar content)
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You can eat fruit daily no problem if your diet is in check. It will not give you diabetes.
If you are young and healthy and active, eating fruit daily may not be a problem. The thing is that most people today are not young and healthy and active. For the multitudes who suffer from insulin resistance, diabetes, and fatty liver, eating fruit daily or eating it at all is a huge problem.
Here is a conversation that has never happened:
"Dude, you've really let yourself go".
"It's the blueberries man. Fuckin' blueberries"
You'd be surprised. See below.
i dont think all sugar is the same , there are lots of different kinds (Glucose.Fructose Sucrose,Lactose)and i think they affect people differantly some are worse than others
This is absolutely correct. There are different types of sugar, and they affect people differently depending on a number of variables.
Fructose is by far the most harmful to most people because of how it's metabolized. It doesn't matter if it comes from fruit, or honey, or corn syrup:
The Effect of 6-months Fruit-rich Diet on Liver Steatosis, Liver Enzymes, Insulin Resistance, and Lipid Profile in Patients With Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease: a Randomized Clinical Trial
"After absorption, glucose is mainly metabolized by peripheral tissues, while fructose is transported directly to the liver. Due to the lack of feedback control, fructose is metabolized faster and enters the path of lipogenesis compared to the glucose [39]. Also, fructose induces lipogenesis more efficiently than glucose through upregulation of carbohydrate-responsive element-binding protein (ChREBP) and sterol regulatory element-binding protein 1c (SREBP1c) signaling pathways in the hepatocytes [40]. In addition, fructose could intensify bacterial growth in the small intestine, which increases endotoxin levels in the portal vein and can lead to inflammation in the NASH [41].
Fakhoury-Sayegh et al. [18] Showed in a case-control study that a fruit-rich dietary pattern (more than 2-3 serving/day of fruits and >20 gr/day of fructose) was directly related to NAFLD. Earlier, Kobayashi et al. [30] reported that people with fatty liver were even more likely to eat fruits and sweets than people with diabetes. In addition, Xia et al. [31] found in a relatively large study (with a sample size of more than 27,000 people) that consuming oranges seven times a week was associated with an increased chance of fatty liver.
In the present study, 6 months of intervention with FRD exacerbated steatosis, dyslipidemia, and glycemic control of NAFLD patients. It seems that excessive fruit consumption (about 7 servings per day) makes worse the condition of patients with fatty liver. According to the findings of the study, fruits intake increases the fat content of the hepatocyte probably through lipogenic effect of fructose. To clarify the issue, more studies specifying a range for fruit intake (with minimum and maximum values) and considering the energy requirements are warranted."
https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-996590/v1/2fdeeac3-9c4e-4d96-bae4-b2945cfc5782.pdf
Effects of Dietary Fructose Restriction on Liver Fat, De Novo Lipogenesis, and Insulin Kinetics in Children With Obesity
"Consumption of sugar is associated with obesity, type 2 diabetes mellitus, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and cardiovascular disease. The conversion of fructose to fat in liver (de novo lipogenesis [DNL]) may be a modifiable pathogenetic pathway. We determined the effect of 9 days of isocaloric fructose restriction on DNL, liver fat, visceral fat (VAT), subcutaneous fat, and insulin kinetics in obese Latino and African American children with habitual high sugar consumption (fructose intake >50 g/d).
Short-term (9 days) isocaloric fructose restriction decreased liver fat, VAT, and DNL, and improved insulin kinetics in children with obesity. These findings support efforts to reduce sugar consumption."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28579536/
Hiding unhealthy heart outcomes in a low-fat diet trial
"The goal of the intervention diet was to replace especially saturated fat intake with an increased intake of carbohydrates from grains, fruits and vegetables.
The only significant finding in the original 2006 WHIRCDMT publication was that postmenopausal women with CHD randomised to a low-fat ‘heart-healthy’ diet in 1993 were at 26% greater risk of developing additional CHD events compared with women with CHD eating the control diet. A 2017 WHIRCDMT publication includes data for an additional 5 years of follow-up. It finds that CHD risk in this subgroup of postmenopausal women had increased further to 47%–61%."
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/8/2/e001680
The dose makes the poison, and for many people the smallest dose of fructose can be very harmful.
(https://i.dietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Low-Carb-Fruits-Berries.jpg)
(https://i.dietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Low-Carb-Fruits.jpg)
"The numbers above are the grams of digestible carbohydrates, or net carbs, per 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of fruit (net carbs = total carbs minus fiber)."
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/fruits
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this is bullshit , not all sugar is the same , sugar in a apple is completely different than sugar in a can of pop, if i wake up in the morning and eat a apple it makes me feel incredible before i work out , if i wake up and drink a can a coke i will have a hard crash right off the bat
Plus Coke doesn't have vitamins and fiber in it.
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this is bullshit , not all sugar is the same , sugar in a apple is completely different than sugar in a can of pop, if i wake up in the morning and eat a apple it makes me feel incredible before i work out , if i wake up and drink a can a coke i will have a hard crash right off the bat
Try Spinach
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/90PPv7eqekhrO/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952u84kpxhfyt7z8jvj8svswow727ow2phubb8wth77&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
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i get that too , is it not from the artificial sweetener triggering ?
I don't think so, the sweetener thing has been shown to be wrong since many years. Whey is just so quick in the system that it triggers one hell of an insulin release all by its own. Some forget this about proteins.
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I'm sure many here have experienced hypo from say whey and cream of rice or whatever. The potentially unhealthy part of sucrose from a Coke (aka table sugar, which is 50% glucose and 50% fructose) is the fructose part. It sort of wreaks havoc in the liver and causes problems when used in excess.You say you are fine with Gatorade, here the table sugar is actually slowing things down. Sucrose is 65 on the GI whereas the glucose (dextrose) is 100. I never really crash from soda but whey and a quick carb, even if not sugar, has me sweating and shaking often. Anyone else notice this?
i get that too , is it not from the artificial sweetener triggering ?
I don't think so, the sweetener thing has been shown to be wrong since many years. Whey is just so quick in the system that it triggers one hell of an insulin release all by its own. Some forget this about proteins.
Correct! It's the whey protein itself, and it's a good thing:
Whey protein: The “whey” forward for treatment of type 2 diabetes?
"Glucagon, secreted from the alpha cells of the pancreas, primarily acts on the liver to initiate glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis, which then increases endogenous glucose production. Glucagon secretion is exaggerated in response to a meal in patients with type 2 diabetes[82], and ingested protein results in an increase in plasma glucagon levels[83]. It might therefore be expected that protein ingestion would increase blood glucose concentrations, but this is not necessarily the case.
Calbet et al[84] gave 6 healthy adults four tests meals containing glucose, cow’s milk solution, pea and whey peptide hydrolysates, and found that the glucagon response was linearly related to the increase in plasma amino acids. Despite this, plasma glucose levels after whey hydrolysates decreased by about 1.5 mmol/L from baseline to 180 min, most likely due to the effects of insulin, which is stimulated concurrently and is particularly effective at suppressing glycogenolysis."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620107/
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Plus Coke doesn't have vitamins and fiber in it.
Those vitamins and fiber from fruit aren't gonna help the many people suffering from fatty liver, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and coronary heart disease.
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Those vitamins and fiber from fruit aren't gonna help the many people suffering from fatty liver, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and coronary heart disease.
Humans have been eating fruit for thousands of years. For many societies they were the primary food source. You guys need to quit believing these claims of extreme diet plans.
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Correct! It's the whey protein itself, and it's a good thing:
Which also means that some insulin spikes aren't even necessarily detrimental, even for a Type II diabetic. There are of course many who say you should avoid protein induced spikes too, and in fact a "true" ketogenic diet is just mostly fat and low carbs. A "bodybuilding keto" diet isn't really even ketogenic due to the massive gluconeogenesis from amino acids (aminos turn to glucose) That's why some have been able to eat a zero carb diet AND use insulin at the same time, due to proteins like whey in massive amounts.
I haven't delved into it that deep but some can have relatively poor insulin sensitivity on a ketogenic diet too. It's not that simple :D
Genetics are huge wrt insulin sensitivity/resistance. I read that for example a Nordic person may be able to gain 30lbs of pure fat and not go Type II diabetic whereas some indian in south America can gain 2lbs of fat and go diabetic.
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One thing for sure the muscles use glucose for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
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One thing for sure the muscles use glucose for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
True, that's the primary source of energy but if you're in ketosis you're using the body's fat or food.
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Humans have been eating fruit for thousands of years. For many societies they were the primary food source. You guys need to quit believing these claims of extreme diet plans.
Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.
What extreme diet plan? The ketogenic diet? The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more? That extreme diet plan?
And you are the same guy who said in another thread that eating only Froot Loops 3 times a day can be a healthy diet. Now, that's what I call extreme, and unhealthy. What are you, a food industry lobbyist? Big Pharma? Both?
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Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.
What extreme diet plan? The ketogenic diet? The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more? That extreme diet plan?
I’m convinced. if keto helps you with your polycystic ovary syndrome then I’m all for it.
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I’m convinced. if keto helps you with your polycystic ovary syndrome then I’m all for it.
If you are a woman who wants to have children and is tired of shaving her facial hair, I get it. Good luck to you.
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One thing for sure the muscles use glucose for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
Your body adjusts to eating few carbs after awhile and uses ketones for energy.
I eat hardly any carbs but do what you call "exhausting full body workouts".
I even go for 3 hour bike rides after training and before eating.
How is it possible?
I'm not saying eating zero carbs is optimal if you are an Olympic marathoner, but you are incorrect about a 5 mile run being impossible.
Nomadic American Indians ate basically a meat diet and went on physically demanding hunts for more meat.
Americans eat TOO MANY carbs. 300-400 grams a day is too many.
And most are eaten in highly processed junk foods.
If you stop eating processed foods, sugars, and seed oils you will be better off.
You can still eat some carbs but avoid the above.
Get your carbs from whole foods that do not contain seed oils and sugar.
It will make a huge difference.
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If you are a woman who wants to have children and is tired of shaving her facial hair, I get it. Good luck to you.
Has it been effective for your PCOS?
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Protein powders, including whey powders, cause insulin spikes because they are so finely ground.
This allows them to be converted by the digestive system into glucose rapidly.
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Which also means that some insulin spikes aren't even necessarily detrimental, even for a Type II diabetic.
Not always, but they can be detrimental. Many people, not necessarily you, confuse a rapid increase in insulin with a rapid increase in glucose. They are different. In the study I linked, Whey protein didn't increase blood glucose. Why? Because it increased insulin instead, and insulin kept the blood glucose down.
In some people, when they first start developing insulin resistance, their fasting blood glucose appears normal and they and their doctor will think that everything is just fine. However, after testing their fasting insulin, it's very high. Their body is having to release more and more insulin to keep their glucose levels normal. This is bad. Most doctors test fasting blood glucose, but they won't test fasting insulin unless you request it, and possibly pay for it out of pocket.
If not treated, this person's glucose levels will eventually go up as well because the high insulin will no longer be able to keep their glucose levels normal.
So insulin and glucose levels are two different things that must be looked at in relation to each other.
Also, increases in insulin from dietary protein are far lower and more stable than they are from dietary carbs:
(https://assets-global.website-files.com/63bc6cdba9784b6ec05f51aa/63be1ab5508ab658ac6650c0_63b87d09bd7af951e6b1a5d3_5d7c1373d27da2190c1a5458_Calorie-Types-1.jpeg)
There are of course many who say you should avoid protein induced spikes too,
And you definitely do if, for example, you are on a ketogenic diet to treat epilepsy. Eating one too many ounces of protein could trigger a seizure.
and in fact a "true" ketogenic diet is just mostly fat and low carbs.
Where do you get this from? The ketogenic diet for epilepsy is less than 5% carbs, 80%-90% fat, and the rest is protein. A ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes is around 70% fat, 25% or more protein, and 5% or less carbs.
A "bodybuilding keto" diet isn't really even ketogenic due to the massive gluconeogenesis from amino acids (aminos turn to glucose) That's why some have been able to eat a zero carb diet AND use insulin at the same time, due to proteins like whey in massive amounts.
What's bodybuilding keto? A keto diet is one that gets you in a state of at least mild ketosis, at least most of the day. How much protein one can consume while staying in ketosis differs by individual.
Many people believe that gluconeogenesis uses ONLY amino acids(protein) to create glucose. This is incorrect. It uses lactate and glycerol(fat) too. Ketones are muscle sparing too, as fat adapted muscles use mostly ketones and fat for energy and require less glucose/glycogen, thereby decreasing the need for gluconeogenesis.
Insulin is a hormone, not a source of energy. Did you mean to say glucose?
I haven't delved into it that deep but some can have relatively poor insulin sensitivity on a ketogenic diet too. It's not that simple :D
Where did you hear/read this? That would be true only if those individuals already had poor insulin sensitivity and had just started the keto diet recently. Study after study have already shown that a well formulated keto diet improves insulin sensitivity.
Genetics are huge wrt insulin sensitivity/resistance. I read that for example a Nordic person may be able to gain 30lbs of pure fat and not go Type II diabetic whereas some indian in south America can gain 2lbs of fat and go diabetic.
This is true, but genetics load the gun and environment/lifestyle pulls the trigger. You can improve and maintain good insulin sensitivity through lifestyle, no matter your genetics.
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Has it been effective for your PCOS?
I was born a male, and I identify as male.
You've got a problem with me, ProudVirgin69? Something I said got your panties in a wad?
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Your body adjusts to eating few carbs after awhile and uses ketones for energy.
I eat hardly any carbs but do what you call "exhausting full body workouts".
I even go for 3 hour bike rides after training and before eating.
How is it possible?
I'm not saying eating zero carbs is optimal if you are an Olympic marathoner, but you are incorrect about a 5 mile run being impossible.
Nomadic American Indians ate basically a meat diet and went on physically demanding hunts for more meat.
Americans eat TOO MANY carbs. 300-400 grams a day is too many.
And most are eaten in highly processed junk foods.
If you stop eating processed foods, sugars, and seed oils you will be better off.
You can still eat some carbs but avoid the above.
Get your carbs from whole foods that do not contain seed oils and sugar.
It will make a huge difference.
IroNat ain't lying.
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One thing for sure the muscles use glucose for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
Saw an interview with a fella that ran a marathon on 5 consecutive days while fasting. Cca 212 kilometres all together with no food. Once your body adapts to using fat for energy, it's easy.
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Saw an interview with a fella that ran a marathon on 5 consecutive days while fasting. Cca 212 kilometres all together with no food. Once your body adapts to using fat for energy, it's easy.
Good point! Many people forget that fasting ketosis is the default state all humans go into when not eating anything for a while. They're not eating any carbs because they are not eating anything at all. Yet, humans have been able to run, lift, and hunt while in this state for thousands of years.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-30-2015/nBOKiw.gif)
(https://gordonbelray.com/images/nanook/nanook-walrus-hunt.jpg)
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Good point! Many people forget that fasting ketosis is the default state all humans go into when not eating anything for a while. They're not eating any carbs because they are not eating anything at all. Yet, humans have been able to run, lift, and hunt while in this state for thousands of years.
Dude also stated that carbing up before such events is not a very smart way since you can only store so much energy in glycogen. Yet your body has tens of thousands of calories stored in fat cells available at any time. Bart Kay did the interview with the marathoner
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Is it possible you are all correct to a degree?
I do believe what iroNat says, that the body has a tremendous ability to adapt. Loco always brings backup to his statements and makes well thought out arguments.
However, then one reads the book on elite athletic diets and they are not doing low carb, and being very successful.
And the LDL discussion can go on for eternity.
I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.
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True, that's the primary source of energy but if you're in ketosis you're using the body's fat or food.
It's a combination of fuel sources for athletics but for lifting or an anaerobic activity it's sugar as in glucose is the main source.
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Is it possible you are all correct to a degree?
I do believe what iroNat says, that the body has a tremendous ability to adapt. Loco always brings backup to his statements and makes well thought out arguments.
However, then one reads the book on elite athletic diets and they are not doing low carb, and being very successful.
And the LDL discussion can go on for eternity.
I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.
Your sound logic has no place here! We’ve already made up our minds and have formed dogmatic tribes! On a serious note, I’ll stick to high protein, high fiber, moderate fats and complex carbs depending on goals plus exercise. I think having muscle without a lot of body fat (without using steroids) and good sleep solves a lot of potential problems.
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Your sound logic has no place here! We’ve already made up our minds and have formed dogmatic tribes! On a serious note, I’ll stick to high protein, high fiber, moderate fats and complex carbs depending on goals plus exercise. I think having muscle without a lot of body fat (without using steroids) and good sleep solves a lot of potential problems.
Agree. Especially on the sleep. Throughout history, the body has been shown the ability to heal itself, given the right conditions. Sleep is a big factor.
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I think overall if people just eliminated the majority of horseshit they eat, kept the carbs in check, we'd all be better off, with the individual tweaking the carb levels to what works for them personally.
No doubt, Grape.
Bhanky could tweak his diet to include Peach Cobbler so his system doesn't shut down.
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Where do you get this from? The ketogenic diet for epilepsy is less than 5% carbs, 80%-90% fat, and the rest is protein. A ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes is around 70% fat, 25% or more protein, and 5% or less carbs.
What's bodybuilding keto? A keto diet is one that gets you in a state of at least mild ketosis,
I phrased that wrong, I meant mostly fat, close to zero carbs.
"Bodybuilding keto" is where you may eat 200-300 grams of protein, a good amount of fat and close to zero carbs. Obviously that isn't keto at all but many do call it that when they cut the carbs completely. No bodybuilder eats 80% fat, everyone does "high" protein but there is still talk of it being "keto." :D Dave Palumbo's diets some call "ketogenic."
"The Dave Palumbo Diet requires six meals each day. A sample meal plan would start with five whole eggs for the first meal followed by a whey protein shake and 1.5 tbsp of natural peanut butter for the second meal. The third meal could consist of an 8-oz. serving of chicken with 1/2 cup of walnuts or almonds. Meal four would be another whey protein shake and 1.5 tbsp of peanut butter. Dinner, or meal five, would feature a fatty protein like salmon, swordfish or red meat paired with a green salad. The day ends with a sixth meal of a whey protein shake and peanut butter."
Lyle McDonald, who is the OG in the so-called research based community, and who I really like, thinks all the advantages of keto are actually realised even if you don't start producing a lot of ketones. His full explanation is a lot more involved than that of course.
The CKD type diets looked elegant on paper and I think they "work" for bodybuilders, sometimes gaining a little muscle while losing a lot of fat.
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It's a combination of fuel sources for athletics but for lifting or an anaerobic activity it's sugar as in glucose is the main source.
Sounds like a great opportunity for a carb pre work out meal, (timed appropriately) so your body can use it for training.
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Carbs
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Your statement above didn't help all of those study subjects for whom consuming fruit significantly worsened their fatty liver disease, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.
What extreme diet plan? The ketogenic diet? The same diet that for hundreds of years has helped people treat and reverse epilepsy, brain injury, insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, polycystic ovary syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux disease, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, obesity, hypertension, autoimmune disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and more? That extreme diet plan?
And you are the same guy who said in another thread that eating only Froot Loops 3 times a day can be a healthy diet. Now, that's what I call extreme, and unhealthy. What are you, a food industry lobbyist? Big Pharma? Both?
Yes, keto is an extreme diet just like veganism, Atkins, frutarian, raw food and any other diet that has a person cutting out huge food groups from their diet. You are not living to 100 because of any of these diets.
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One thing for sure the muscles use glucose for energy. Try to eliminate carbs in your diet with a low carb eating pattern for four weeks and try to go for five mile run. You will be drained on the first mile.
I knew a marathon runner who ran two marathons, one carb loaded and one on a keto diet
His times were around the same...
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Your body adjusts to eating few carbs after awhile and uses ketones for energy.
I eat hardly any carbs but do what you call "exhausting full body workouts".
I even go for 3 hour bike rides after training and before eating.
How is it possible?
I'm not saying eating zero carbs is optimal if you are an Olympic marathoner, but you are incorrect about a 5 mile run being impossible.
Nomadic American Indians ate basically a meat diet and went on physically demanding hunts for more meat.
Americans eat TOO MANY carbs. 300-400 grams a day is too many.
And most are eaten in highly processed junk foods.
If you stop eating processed foods, sugars, and seed oils you will be better off.
You can still eat some carbs but avoid the above.
Get your carbs from whole foods that do not contain seed oils and sugar.
It will make a huge difference.
Whole body routines are exhausting depending on the weight used. They are easy with light weights and exhausting with heavy weights. I use to bike a lot and even rode 500 miles in five days in the summer heat in Iowa. Endurance needs glycogen. Again it's a matter of of how hard you are pushing. A hard 5 mile run at OPTIMAL capability will be impossible on a low carb diet. Talking about being at your best for the run. I do understand that a high carb full of sugar is not healthy.
Do you feel you get really lean on your low carb diet? Many say they see the fat melt off.
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Whole body routines are exhausting depending on the weight used. They are easy with light weights and exhausting with heavy weights. I use to bike a lot and even rode 500 miles in five days in the summer heat in Iowa. Endurance needs glycogen. Again it's a matter of of how hard you are pushing. A hard 5 mile run at OPTIMAL capability will be impossible on a low carb diet. Talking about being at your best for the run. I do understand that a high carb full of sugar is not healthy.
Do you feel you get really lean on your low carb diet? Many say they see the fat melt off.
If you read the thread people ahe already given examples of perfomances similar to carb load and keto
Have you ever tried Keto and see how you perform?
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If you read the thread people ahe already given examples of perfomances similar to carb load and keto
Have you ever tried Keto and see how you perform?
Talking about endurance needing glycogen. No way can a runner achieve his OPTIMAL capability on a low carb diet. Even pro bodybuilders say they are dragging on low carb diets. A typical keto diet isn't truly low carbs but lower carbs.
In the end no one can convince me that optimal athletic performance in some sport that needs endurance like cycling, boxing and running is best served on a low carb diet.
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Talking about endurance needing glycogen. No way can a runner achieve his OPTIMAL capability on a low carb diet. Even pro bodybuilders say they are dragging on low carb diets. A typical keto diet isn't truly low carbs but lower carbs.
In the end no one can convince me that optimal athletic performance in some sport that needs endurance like cycling, boxing and running is best served on a low carb diet.
go back and read the thread again FFS
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Whole body routines are exhausting depending on the weight used. They are easy with light weights and exhausting with heavy weights. I use to bike a lot and even rode 500 miles in five days in the summer heat in Iowa. Endurance needs glycogen. Again it's a matter of of how hard you are pushing. A hard 5 mile run at OPTIMAL capability will be impossible on a low carb diet. Talking about being at your best for the run. I do understand that a high carb full of sugar is not healthy.
Do you feel you get really lean on your low carb diet? Many say they see the fat melt off.
You have to be in condition to do full-body workouts which can be up to 50 sets over 2 hours or so.
After a couple weeks you get used to it like anything else. There is a mental adjustment along with a physical adjustment.
If you are training heavy you may need longer rests between sets.
A routine like that done 2-3 days a week.
A mistake made by people doing full-body training is to just take their bro-split routine and trying to do it all in one day.
You don't do that!
A full-body routine should be in the range of 3-6 sets per bodypart, usually consisting of thighs, calves, chest, back, delts, biceps, triceps. Anywhere from 21-42 sets total spread over 1-2 exercises per bodypart. Compound exercises preferred.
The 3 hour full-body workouts for the Silver Age guys like Clancy Ross were pre-contest routines, not off-contest.
When I was doing Arnold bro-splits pre-contest many years ago it would be 20-25 sets a bodypart, 4-5 exercises per bodypart, doing say chest and back twice a week. So, that is 40-50 sets again over up to 2.5 hours in the gym.
That done 6 days a week!
Regarding fat, your body adjusts on keto. A new set point. Your ketone production adjusts. You don't just keep losing more and more fat until you disappear.
Interesting article excerpt:
https://www.doctorkiltz.com/cyclical-keto-diet/
Ultra-endurance athletes may also thrive on conventional keto. Becoming keto-adapted actually helps the ultra-endurance athlete reach one of their most coveted goals: becoming ‘bonk-proof.’
Bonking is the word endurance athletes use to describe the point when your body uses up it’s glycogen stores, and switches to breaking down fat. For an athlete who is not keto-adapted, this means major physical struggle. But for an athlete whose body is adapted to CKD, the transition is easier. And there are already higher levels of ketones in the blood.
Ketones are a decidedly cleaner-burning fuel source than carbs when it comes to slow, steady energy production. [13] Ultra-endurance events are far too long to be sustained by the body’s glycogen (carbohydrate) stores alone.
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Talking about endurance needing glycogen. No way can a runner achieve his OPTIMAL capability on a low carb diet. Even pro bodybuilders say they are dragging on low carb diets. A typical keto diet isn't truly low carbs but lower carbs.
In the end no one can convince me that optimal athletic performance in some sport that needs endurance like cycling, boxing and running is best served on a low carb diet.
I agree Carbs are needed in any endurance sport. Infact this is important just before a high edurance sport such as running.
look at most military diets carbs in there & for a reason.
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I agree Carbs are needed in any endurance sport. Infact this is important just before a high edurance sport such as running.
look at most military diets carbs in there & for a reason.
Food served in the military is typically the Western diet.
Reason?
It's cheap and people like it. It's considered to be a good diet by most people. The Food Pyramid.
My dad was a U.S. Marine. He would describe eating what they called "shit on a shingle" which is cooked ground beef on top of mashed potatoes. We would have it at home. Typical high carb dinner and cheap.
MRE's are typical stuff.
https://www.ruckformiles.com/mre/how-many-calories-in-an-mre/#Full%20List%20of%2026%20Military%20MRE%20Calories
Full List of 26 Military MRE Calories
NAME CALORIES FATS (g) CARBS (g) PROTEIN (g)
Chili with Beans
10 items 1240 48 174 174
Beef, Barbecue, Pulled
11 items 1280 44 171 51
Chicken, Noodles and Vegetables in Sauce
12 items 1192 32 194 37
Spaghetti with Beef and Sauce
9 items 1248 39 191 37
Chicken Chunks, White, 5 oz
10 items 1421 56 183 54
Beef Taco Filling
10 items 1227 64 121 50
Beef Brisket
10 items 1253 33 202 40
Meatballs in Marinara Sauce
11 items 1285 61 311 80
Beef Stew
12 items 1197 41 172 39
Chili and Macaroni
12 items 1231 49 169 39
Vegetarian Taco Pasta
10 items 1259 46 186 36
Elbow Macaroni in a Tomato Sauce
11 items 1217 28 217 31
Cheese Tortellini in Tomato Sauce
11 items 1345 47 196 38
Fettuccine, Spinach and Cream Sauce
11 items 1284 40 194 40
Mexican Style Chicken Stew
10 items 1301 43 191 44
Chicken Burrito Bowl
11 items 1314 43 199 41
Pork Sausage Patty, Maple
11 items 1215 65 132 30
Beef Ravioli in Meat Sauce
11 items 1150 49 152 37
Beef Patty, Grilled, Jalapeno Pepper Jack
13 items 1274 59 164 33
Hash Browns with Bacon
11 items 1306 60 166 37
Tuna, Chunk Light, Lemon Pepper
9 items 1185 43 157 16
Asian Style Beef Strips with Vegetables
9 items 1248 44 179 44
Pizza, Pepperoni
10 items 1424 54 206 39
Southwest Beef and Black Beans
9 items 1267 51 163 49
Beef Strips in a Savory Tomato Based Sauce
10 items 1294 38 196 47
Beef Goulash
9 items 1341 52 198 38
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Food served in the military is typically the Western garbage food diet of highly processed foods.
Reason?
It's cheap.
MRE's are typical stuff.
Rubbish in the British Army we were well fed & honestly given fairly good choices of food. I can´t speak for the US Army
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Look i knew some guys who never saw a real dinner before they joined the army. The Army Catering Corps ( slop Jockies) :) did a fine job.
I loved my Saturday morning Brunch after a night on the piss ..Porked chops (with apple sauce), chips, beans ..tea
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Rubbish in the British Army we were well fed & honestly given fairly good choices of food. I can´t speak for the US Army
It depends what you consider "good".
Likely it was the Food Pyramid.
If you consider eating the Food Pyramid "good" then it was good.
How's your heart health today after eating that for decades?
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Look i knew some guys who never saw a real dinner before they joined the army. The Army Catering Corps ( slop Jockies) :) did a fine job.
I loved my Saturday morning Brunch after a night on the piss ..Porked chops (with apple sauce), chips, beans ..tea
Sounds like the typical Western diet high in carbs.
How's that heart stent working after your coronary?
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It depends what you consider "good".
Likely it was the Food Pyramid.
No it was decent food & as i wrote the Chefs got shit from us but were loved. The food was good and you were well fed.
3 full meals a day. I mostly ate 2 a day as it was enough for me & i never ate any pudding.
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Sounds like the typical Western diet high in carbs.
How's that heart stent working after your coronary?
My heart stents are working fine, infact i went on a long bike ride this morning.
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My heart stents are working fine, infact i went on a long bike ride this morning.
That was unkind of me to say that, Donny, my apology.
However, eating the Western diet of sugar, carbs, etc. probably resulted in your needing that stent.
Have you considered changing your diet of chips, etc?
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That was unkind of me to say that, Donny, my apology.
However, eating the Western diet of sugar, carbs, etc. probably resulted in your needing that stent.
Have you considered changing your diet of chips, etc?
Try harder , i´m a Vet on here ;D
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Try harder , i´m a Vet on here ;D
:D
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:D
sadly intelligence cannot be trained (in your case) due to your genetics as is my heart condition.
born that way.
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sadly intelligence cannot be trained (in your case) due to your genetics as is my heart condition.
born that way.
:D
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:D
you are very immature.
more i can´t say.
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Ironnat bought to get dat celle ass woopin
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IroNat and Donny should not be at odds
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IroNat and Donny should not be at odds
It´s OK :)
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IroNat and Donny should not be at odds
I like Donny.
He posts good stuff about martial arts and training.
I was being sincere in my apology although it violated the Getbig Code of never apologizing.
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Thanks for this thread. I have ever had headaches my whole life until a few months ago. All of a sudden my head is constantly hurting for months and I felt tired and nauseous a lot. I the. Googled statin side effects after seeing this thread and sure enough the top ones are headache, fatigue and nausea. I stop the statin my doc gave me and I haven’t had a headache for 2 weeks when she prescribed them she just casually gave them to me after a blood test. She was like your cholesterol is high, let me throw this new drug into your mix. What a bitch.
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Thanks for this thread. I have ever had headaches my whole life until a few months ago. All of a sudden my head is constantly hurting for months and I felt tired and nauseous a lot. I the. Googled statin side effects after seeing this thread and sure enough the top ones are headache, fatigue and nausea. I stop the statin my doc gave me and I haven’t had a headache for 2 weeks when she prescribed them she just casually gave them to me after a blood test. She was like your cholesterol is high, let me throw this new drug into your mix. What a bitch.
Which statin was it?
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Bunch of statin-taking boomers in this bitch sheeeeeeiiiiiiitttttttt
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I like Donny.
He posts good stuff about martial arts and training.
I was being sincere in my apology although it violated the Getbig Code of never apologizing.
and i like you ( no Homo) :-*
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Yes, keto is an extreme diet
Keto
(https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=669571.0;attach=1283108;image)
1 serving of Fruit Loops is only 150 calories (before milk). You could eat them every meal and it would be a very low cal diet and you'd lose weight.
You wouldn't get fat though. Short term it could be a good weight loss diet.
Froot Loops
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg) + (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg) + (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg)
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Bodybuilding related: seems like cereals like those fruit loops are very popular right now in the pros. Some blend them in their whey shakes after training with the insulin. If you "need" quick carbs, why not.
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Keto
(https://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=669571.0;attach=1283108;image)
Froot Loops
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg) + (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg) + (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg/220px-Froot-Loops-Cereal-Bowl.jpg)
I don't see why you are reposting this. Everything I said was true. You will lose weight eating like that. No one who can count calories denies this. There have been several university studies done confirming this AND the subjects blood pressure and cholesterol levels went down as a result of the weight loss. The one professor ate nothing but mint chocolate chip ice cream for a whole month.
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I don't see why you are reposting this. Everything I said was true. You will lose weight eating like that. No one who can count calories denies this. There have been several university studies done confirming this AND the subjects blood pressure and cholesterol levels went down as a result of the weight loss. The one professor ate nothing but mint chocolate chip ice cream for a whole month.
So the science-based, medically accepted keto therapy is extreme, but your Froot Loops only diet is "a good weight loss diet" and not extreme at all.
It's not all about calories and ideal body weight. You can be at your ideal body weight and still be very metabolically unhealthy.
"In the United States, recent studies showed that the lean, normal weight diabetes is not rare especially among minority populations."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4434081/
"The prevalence of lean diabetes among the U.S. adult population is increasing"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36763508/
"Consumption of sugar is associated with obesity, type 2 diabetes mellitus, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and cardiovascular disease. The conversion of fructose to fat in liver (de novo lipogenesis [DNL]) may be a modifiable pathogenetic pathway. We determined the effect of 9 days of isocaloric fructose restriction on DNL, liver fat, visceral fat (VAT), subcutaneous fat, and insulin kinetics in obese Latino and African American children with habitual high sugar consumption (fructose intake >50 g/d).
Short-term (9 days) isocaloric fructose restriction decreased liver fat, VAT, and DNL, and improved insulin kinetics in children with obesity. These findings support efforts to reduce sugar consumption."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28579536/
"Of more than 50 clinical and biomarker risk factors examined, diabetes and lipoprotein insulin resistance had the highest relative risk, particularly for premature coronary heart disease"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7818181/
"In conclusion, an age-related disease developed in approximately one out of three healthy individuals who were in the upper tertile of insulin resistance at baseline, followed for an average of 6 yr. In contrast, no clinical event was seen in the most insulin-sensitive tertile. These data should serve as a strong stimulus for further efforts to define the role of insulin resistance in the genesis of age-related diseases."
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/8/3574/2848584
"Ketogenic diets improve insulin sensitivity through their irrefutable effects on fat and weight loss. Besides weight loss, KD produce direct insulin-sensitizing effects which are mostly due to the capacity of its restricted-digestible carbohydrates content to lower blood glucose and insulin levels. In addition, ketone bodies appear to be able to influence insulin signaling directly."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10385501/
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regarding diet i have been for a fair while now on a "Mediterranean style Diet" & just last week i was told i need more Iron & normally they see this with Vegetarians, which i am not but have been eating much more plant based foods & fish.
Just a random comment :) so i need more meat
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regarding diet i have been for a fair while now on a "Mediterranean style Diet" & just last week i was told i need more Iron & normally they see this with Vegetarians, which i am not but have been eating much more plant based foods & fish.
Just a random comment :) so i need more meat
Who told you about needing more iron?
Did they specify Olympic or Standard plates?
Seriously though, was it your doctor? Usually men shouldn't take iron supplements.
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Who told you about needing more iron?
Did they specify Olympic or Standard plates?
Seriously though, was it your doctor? Usually men shouldn't take iron supplements.
iron is important because..
About 70% of the iron in your body is found in hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen.
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So i was told my Red blood cells are weaker, not critical but they take blood 1x a month so basically it can lead to problems but i feel ok.
If it happens i will take it like man, this is infact my only fear whimpering like a coward.
which i won´t. ;D
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I have low iron for some yet undiscovered reason, RBCs and Hemo are normal. I am to take a 100mg tab of iron sulphate a day. Perhaps steroids are the cause of these labs? The RBCs should be at least high normal with the roids, the steroids are probably keeping them normal despite low iron?
They will check for internal bleeding but I've had this low iron for years. I was told IV iron drip has been phased out for some reasonn so it's tabs now, which one doc said messes with your stomach.
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I have low iron for some yet undiscovered reason, RBCs and Hemo are normal. I am to take a 100mg tab of iron sulphate a day. Perhaps steroids are the cause of these labs? The RBCs should be at least high normal with the roids, the steroids are probably keeping them normal despite low iron?
They will check for internal bleeding but I've had this low iron for years. I was told IV iron drip has been phased out for some reasonn so it's tabs now, which one doc said messes with your stomach.
yeah can be many things.. not too worried :)
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I don't see why you are reposting this. Everything I said was true. You will lose weight eating like that. No one who can count calories denies this. There have been several university studies done confirming this AND the subjects blood pressure and cholesterol levels went down as a result of the weight loss. The one professor ate nothing but mint chocolate chip ice cream for a whole month.
big paul agrees
calories in, calories out... "fuck yes! it's true!" -Big Paul