Author Topic: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?  (Read 16253 times)

Deedee

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2006, 10:01:37 AM »
So the idea of christianity does not include the teachings and examples in the old testiment in regards to punishment?

No. You can't pick and choose. If old testament teachings with regard to punishment are relevant, than so should be the commandments with regards to keeping kosher, etc...

Deedee

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2006, 10:02:30 AM »
If the old testiment is in conflict with Jesus preachings, then the word of Jesus triumphs.

Exactly...thank you!

OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2006, 10:48:40 AM »
If the old testiment is in conflict with Jesus preachings, then the word of Jesus triumphs.

Why? Because he's part of the Trinity, son of God. Messiah doesn't occur in the Old testiment. The only part in the Old testiment that rivals, is the Ten Commandments, since they are the only part in the whole Bible which are the direct words of God.

Christianity is based on the very existance of Jesus Christ and his teachings. Old Testiment works great as backbone, but is primarily where the Jews will find guidance.

YIP
Zack

So then the bible is in contradiction with its self?

why not just throw out the entire old testiment?

It's alot better then just picking and choosing what versus support your dogma.

OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2006, 11:00:09 AM »
No. You can't pick and choose. If old testament teachings with regard to punishment are relevant, than so should be the commandments with regards to keeping kosher, etc...

Teachings on punishment relavent to what?

You are picking and choosing if you ignore or discount or diminish any O.T. teachings in favor of Jesus.

OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2006, 11:02:05 AM »
If the old testiment is in conflict with Jesus preachings, then the word of Jesus triumphs.


Then the Bible is not the word of God.  less he speaks in 2 directions

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2006, 11:06:10 AM »
hedgehog it is not in conflict. if you think it is you don't understand. the trinity is not supported by the old or new testament.

alexxx

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2006, 11:10:14 AM »
hedgehog it is not in conflict. if you think it is you don't understand. the trinity is not supported by the old or new testament.

Sounds like you watch too much the matrix movies..  :-\
just push some weight!

OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2006, 11:12:18 AM »
hedgehog it is not in conflict. if you think it is you don't understand. the trinity is not supported by the old or new testament.

It isn't?  Then who is it supported by?  The Catholic Chruch with their track record? 

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2006, 11:16:48 AM »
i defy anyone to prove the trinity doctrine is biblical.

Deedee

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2006, 11:24:16 AM »
Teachings on punishment relavent to what?

Ummm...relevant to what I thought you were talking about a few posts ago? Maybe I misunderstood.

Quote
You are picking and choosing if you ignore or discount or diminish any O.T. teachings in favor of Jesus.
 

Maybe you should go back and read Leviticus and also parts of Deuteronomy before you say that.  I'm not arguing here. My questions have already been answered to my satisfaction.

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2006, 11:29:47 AM »
it's not that i wanna argue with anyone or say haha i'm right you're wrong. i don't care about that. what bothers me is how what is today perceived as christianity is actually preventing a lot of would be believers. not only the conduct of religious people and hypocracy but also teachings such as trinity which contradict the old testament and are just things that are misunderstood about the new testament. if you believe it and want to know why i don't i'll tell you. if you wanna show me why it is biblical then show me.

Butterbean

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2006, 01:33:27 PM »
You make the assumption that Jesus has faith in the present legal system. Why?


YIP
Zack

For one reason, because He is God who is omniscient.

For another: 

Daniel 4:17 "....the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes...."

Romans 13:1   "......there is no authority except that which God has established.  The authorities that exist have been established by God."


R

Butterbean

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2006, 01:37:17 PM »
it's not that i wanna argue with anyone or say haha i'm right you're wrong. i don't care about that. what bothers me is how what is today perceived as christianity is actually preventing a lot of would be believers. not only the conduct of religious people and hypocracy but also teachings such as trinity which contradict the old testament and are just things that are misunderstood about the new testament. if you believe it and want to know why i don't i'll tell you. if you wanna show me why it is biblical then show me.

Hey gibberj2, that is a good idea for it's own thread!  Do you want to start it? :)
R

Butterbean

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2006, 01:47:03 PM »


Look at the rest of Matt 5:38-41...
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.

Looks to me that Jesus preaches about giving. And if you give, that this will create enlightment.

So once again, how a Christian can accept even the slightest imprisonment for anyone is beyond me. The very idea of imprisonment goes against the idea of Christianity.

If a criminal decides to continue with evil deeds, then a true Christian have no right to forcefully stop him. He can only try to convince the criminal with love.

Jesus was a lover.


YIP
Zack

I found this @ desiringgod.org.  It explains pretty closely how I feel about the "turn the other cheek" statement :)

What about turning the other cheek?
What, now, are we to make of Jesus' radical commands in Matthew 5:39-41? "Do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two." How does this fit with what we have seen above?

First, we need to clarify what the problem is not. The problem is not that Jesus appears to be telling us to lie down and let evil overtake us. That is clearly not what he is saying. Instead, he is telling us what it looks like "not [to] be overcome by evil, but [to] overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:21). We have all seen the wisdom of Jesus' words here in our everyday lives. Much of the time, the most effective way to overcome evil is by not resisting. If someone says a mean word, it is far more effective to respond with kindness than with another mean word in return. If someone tries wrongly to cut you off on the freeway, it is usually best just to let them do it. If we would learn these principles, our lives would be much more peaceful and, ironically, we would be vindicated more often.

So the problem is not that it looks as though Jesus is telling us to let evil steam-roll over us. The problem is that it looks like Jesus is telling us that the only way we should ever seek to overcome evil is by letting it go and responding with kindness. It looks as though he leaves no place for using force in resisting evil.

Part of the answer to this difficulty lies in understanding the hyperbolic nature of much of the Sermon on the Mount. I don't think that Jesus is telling us never to respond to evil with force (such as in self-defense) or always to literally turn the other cheek when we are slapped any more than his command later in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 6:6 means that we should only pray when we are completely alone or his command in 5:29 means that some should literally gouge out their eyes. Jesus himself drove the thieves away from the temple with a whip (John 2:15) and Paul at times insisted on his rights as a Roman citizen (Acts 25:11; cf. also the interesting instance of 16:35-40). Jesus is using hyperbole to illustrate what our primary disposition and attitude should be, not to say that we should literally give in to every attempt to do evil against us. That is part of the answer.

The main part of the answer, however, lies in remembering that Jesus is speaking primarily to individuals. He is not mainly addressing governments here, but is primarily speaking at the personal level. This text, then, shows that an individual's primary response to evil should be to "turn the other cheek," while the other texts we have seen (e.g., Romans 13:3-4) show that government's God-given responsibility is to punish those who commit civil crimes (murder, terrorism, acts of war, etc.).
R

OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2006, 02:26:52 PM »
For one reason, because He is God who is omniscient.

For another: 

Daniel 4:17 "....the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes...."

Romans 13:1   "......there is no authority except that which God has established.  The authorities that exist have been established by God."




So God established the inqusition?  Germany's facist government?  The catholic church who killed 50 million people ove rthe years when they had direct influence in the affairs of countries?  This list of "evil" governements could go on for ever.

The authorities that exsisted then and now were established by men.  these would love to use GOD's name to give them justification and vaildation, but the truth remains.

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2006, 07:30:43 PM »
Well I'd rather not. sometimes I see stuff in here and I'm tempted to throw in my say but normally I don't like to talk about these things online. espcially in the looney bin... I mean Getbig.com  :D 

Migs

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2006, 09:25:13 PM »
Where's Johnny when you need him, lol.

I don't beleive that being on the sauce is related to lving your life according to doctrine. 

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2006, 09:25:55 PM »
johnny's a fraud. and he's got a lot of people fooled like he knows something.

Migs

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2006, 09:30:01 PM »
um, it was a joke.  Simmer down! lol

Hedgehog

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2006, 09:05:37 AM »
I found this @ desiringgod.org.  It explains pretty closely how I feel about the "turn the other cheek" statement :)

What about turning the other cheek?
What, now, are we to make of Jesus' radical commands in Matthew 5:39-41? "Do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two." How does this fit with what we have seen above?

First, we need to clarify what the problem is not. The problem is not that Jesus appears to be telling us to lie down and let evil overtake us. That is clearly not what he is saying. Instead, he is telling us what it looks like "not [to] be overcome by evil, but [to] overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:21). We have all seen the wisdom of Jesus' words here in our everyday lives. Much of the time, the most effective way to overcome evil is by not resisting. If someone says a mean word, it is far more effective to respond with kindness than with another mean word in return. If someone tries wrongly to cut you off on the freeway, it is usually best just to let them do it. If we would learn these principles, our lives would be much more peaceful and, ironically, we would be vindicated more often.

So the problem is not that it looks as though Jesus is telling us to let evil steam-roll over us. The problem is that it looks like Jesus is telling us that the only way we should ever seek to overcome evil is by letting it go and responding with kindness. It looks as though he leaves no place for using force in resisting evil.

Part of the answer to this difficulty lies in understanding the hyperbolic nature of much of the Sermon on the Mount. I don't think that Jesus is telling us never to respond to evil with force (such as in self-defense) or always to literally turn the other cheek when we are slapped any more than his command later in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 6:6 means that we should only pray when we are completely alone or his command in 5:29 means that some should literally gouge out their eyes. Jesus himself drove the thieves away from the temple with a whip (John 2:15) and Paul at times insisted on his rights as a Roman citizen (Acts 25:11; cf. also the interesting instance of 16:35-40). Jesus is using hyperbole to illustrate what our primary disposition and attitude should be, not to say that we should literally give in to every attempt to do evil against us. That is part of the answer.

The main part of the answer, however, lies in remembering that Jesus is speaking primarily to individuals. He is not mainly addressing governments here, but is primarily speaking at the personal level. This text, then, shows that an individual's primary response to evil should be to "turn the other cheek," while the other texts we have seen (e.g., Romans 13:3-4) show that government's God-given responsibility is to punish those who commit civil crimes (murder, terrorism, acts of war, etc.).


Here's the thing Stella.

It's convenient to have someone else interpret the Bible when the message in it seems hard to follow, when the original message would make you sacrifice the good life.

Let me ask you this question:

Why should the text be interpreted so heavily? What could be easier than to follow instructions on offering other gifts for those who want to take your possessions?

Turning the other cheek.

Instead of trying to twist the words of Jesus, why aren't Christians just simply acknowledging how difficult these instructions are, but they will try to follow them as often they can?

Where in the Bible does it say that it's easy to follow the righteous path?

Instead of broadening the path, why not try walking the path and have faith in the eternal love that God has for all his children?

YIP
Zack
As empty as paradise

Butterbean

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2006, 12:59:04 PM »
Here's the thing Stella.

It's convenient to have someone else interpret the Bible when the message in it seems hard to follow, when the original message would make you sacrifice the good life.

Let me ask you this question:

Why should the text be interpreted so heavily? What could be easier than to follow instructions on offering other gifts for those who want to take your possessions?

Turning the other cheek.

Instead of trying to twist the words of Jesus, why aren't Christians just simply acknowledging how difficult these instructions are, but they will try to follow them as often they can?

Where in the Bible does it say that it's easy to follow the righteous path?

Instead of broadening the path, why not try walking the path and have faith in the eternal love that God has for all his children?

YIP
Zack


I think the easy interpretation is that when He referred to "turn the other cheek" it was in personal relationships.

It's not easy to live our lives in the way we should (not sin etc), in fact, it's impossible!  That why we need a savior.

And you're right, having God's grace is what saves us and keeps us saved :D
R

gibberj2

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2006, 01:06:07 PM »
guys come on. turning the other cheek is not to return bad for bad. But Christians are still supposed to follow the law unless the law is that you can't worship or something.

brianX

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2006, 02:38:20 PM »
There is nothing inherently contradictory about being a Christian and a sinner. Many of Jesus's earliest followers, such as Matthew and Mary Magdalene, were sinners.

The problem is that many of these sinful Christians are the ones who are most judgemental about others. Their blind "faith" in Jesus is somehow supposed to wash away all the bad things they've done in life. In fact, they feel superior to others simply by virtue of the fact that they are fanatical Christians. If any of these idiots ever read the Bible, they would realize that Christ despised hypocrites.
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OzmO

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2006, 02:41:56 PM »
There is nothing inherently contradictory about being a Christian and a sinner. Many of Jesus's earliest followers, such as Matthew and Mary Magdalene, were sinners.

The problem is that many of these sinful Christians are the ones who are most judgemental about others. Their blind "faith" in Jesus is somehow supposed to wash away all the bad things they've done in life. In fact, they feel superior to others simply by virtue of the fact that they are fanatical Christians. If any of these idiots ever read the Bible, they would realize that Christ despised hypocrites.


Hmm very well said.  Also that might include Paul

blondmusclhunk

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Re: Can you live your life to Jesus and still be on the Sauce?
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2006, 01:25:41 PM »
Well for those born again Christians, pentecostals etc: who take the bible literally they need to read the old testament too.  According to that any woman in public on her period should be stoned to death.  If you eat shellfish its an abomination to God.  Sex outside of wedlock bad too.  Looks like a lot of people are  going to hell.

Steroids are a drug too but its how you use it.  If you are not harming your body why not.  There is very little evidence out there that steroids are directly linked to most of the life threatning health issues.  You have to take a huge amount of the juice.