Trayvon Martin - Gun, Drugs, Fighting

[dario73]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE95O0FR20130625

To win a conviction for second-degree murder, the prosecution must convince jurors that Zimmerman acted with "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent," and "an indifference to human life," according to Florida jury instructions.


Tough case for the prosecution.

[Jack T. Cross]

No. I wad aware that Zinmermad had stated in one of his multiple, conflicting statements that Trayvon had gone for the gun DURING the fight.

So why did you say this?:

"there is no evidence showing that Martin knew of the firearm prior to taking a round to the chest."

As I said, that is irrelevant, as the conflict had already begun and both men were probably fearing for their lives.

...while only one of them was responsible for the gun.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to convict Zimmerman, you loom for every convoluted, illogical argument you can possibly find. The man is a shitbag and a liar, yes, but that doesn't mean a spade isn't a spade.

Two men got into a fight,  both men were trying to do what was necessary to continue living. One man succeeded, on man failed. End of story. Everything else is people trying to find an answer using their own experiences, bias' and feelings as the evidence to justify whatever outcome they feel is right on the inside.

I don't particularly care at this point, but the reality is on man was on his back herring his head smashed into the concrete and he did what was necessary to keep living.

 Could he have avoided the conflict? Yes.

Could Trayvpn have avoided the conflict? Yes.

Both men chose go into that situation. One men lived, one died.

What makes you say Martin chose to enter such a situation?

[Jack T. Cross]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE95O0FR20130625

To win a conviction for second-degree murder, the prosecution must convince jurors that Zimmerman acted with "ill will, hatred, spite or an evil intent," and "an indifference to human life," according to Florida jury instructions.


Tough case for the prosecution.

A lack of proper moral regard, which is the soft spot, no doubt about it.  It leaves room open for a person to use extreme stupidity to explain Zimmerman's actions.  I'd say that's why the prosecution opened up with a stream of obscenities, as they wanted to set the tone in that regard.

[240 is Back]

To the guys that really want to believe Zimmerman, let me ask:

How do you process the fact that he is known liar, and furthermore that he would have such tremendous incentive to lie about this encounter?

Just a little aside, that's made me wonder.  I'd appreciate an honest answer from as many of you as possible.

There is no denying that he told some lies when it came to that happened. The timeline doesn't match when you see the phone transcript start and end times.  What trayvon said - no person nor 911 caller heard it.  Covering up his mouth and nose after punching - there was no no blood or dna on his hands.

SO yes, we now finally have evidence that trayvon is a liar.  that's been established.

And yeah, motive to lie.. he doesn't want to go to jail.  Of course he's going to invent all 4 items that make a shoot legal.  The problem is that one by one, we're seeing them being proven to be impossible by actual physical evidence.  He's guilty of lying about the shooting - no denying that.  We just don't know what parts he's lying about and what he's honest about.  Now we have to say "yea, he's lying about some, but i trily believe him on the things that haven't been disproven yet..."

its akin to believing everything obama says EXCEPT those proven to be lies.  Sometimes you gotta smell the bullshitter for being a bullshitter.

[LurkerNoMore]

We should start a thread to see who thinks Zimm will be guilty or acquitted on down the road.  No discussions, no explanations, no opinions... just a guilty or acquitted reply.

[Jack T. Cross]

A lack of proper moral regard, which is the soft spot, no doubt about it.  It leaves room open for a person to use extreme stupidity to explain Zimmerman's actions.  I'd say that's why the prosecution opened up with a stream of obscenities, as they wanted to set the tone in that regard.

...leaves room for a person to attribute Zimmerman's actions to extreme stupidity, that is.

[Jack T. Cross]

There is no denying that he told some lies when it came to that happened. The timeline doesn't match when you see the phone transcript start and end times.  What trayvon said - no person nor 911 caller heard it.  Covering up his mouth and nose after punching - there was no no blood or dna on his hands.

SO yes, we now finally have evidence that trayvon is a liar.  that's been established.

And yeah, motive to lie.. he doesn't want to go to jail.  Of course he's going to invent all 4 items that make a shoot legal.  The problem is that one by one, we're seeing them being proven to be impossible by actual physical evidence.  He's guilty of lying about the shooting - no denying that.  We just don't know what parts he's lying about and what he's honest about.  Now we have to say "yea, he's lying about some, but i trily believe him on the things that haven't been disproven yet..."

its akin to believing everything obama says EXCEPT those proven to be lies.  Sometimes you gotta smell the bullshitter for being a bullshitter.

I know you mean to refer to Zimmerman...

BTW, no doubt Daddy-O has had quite the hand in things, so far.

[Jack T. Cross]

Good post, btw, 240

[Jack T. Cross]

We should start a thread to see who thinks Zimm will be guilty or acquitted on down the road.  No discussions, no explanations, no opinions... just a guilty or acquitted reply.

It would take some serious knowledge of the people on the jury, and how they will react to one another.

[tonymctones]

Yes, Beach Bum, guns have been known to cause extreme fear.  That is fact.

What proof do you have trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting Zimmerman?

[240 is Back]

What proof do you have trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting Zimmerman?

shit, some dude 30+ pounds bigger and 10 years older starts chasing him without ID'ing himself as police... he fears for his life and uses his fists to try to halt a threat.  legal. 

tony, I can see you on the street and chase you 2 blocks and run at you full speed - and you're damn sure legal to use a fist, brick, or even gun to stop me - if you feel your life is in danger.

BESIDES... if zimm did everything by the book - why did he feel the need to exaggerate/lie about so many things, tony?   ZImm said "he had his hand over my nose and mouth" - yet he can scream full volume, and there is no blood/dna on trayvon's sleeve/hand?  You'd think a little widdle detail like that would kinda matter when shooting someone in the heart.

Tony, at the very least - do you AGREE that zimmerman probably exaggerated the part about trayvon covering his nose/mouth after punchign him?

[LurkerNoMore]

It would take some serious knowledge of the people on the jury, and how they will react to one another.

Not if we are just predicting for fun and giggles.

[Shockwave]

What proof do you have trayvon knew about the gun before assaulting Zimmerman?

Zero. He's doing his typical irrelevant circular argument thing again.

[tonymctones]

shit, some dude 30+ pounds bigger and 10 years older starts chasing him without ID'ing himself as police... he fears for his life and uses his fists to try to halt a threat.  legal. 

tony, I can see you on the street and chase you 2 blocks and run at you full speed - and you're damn sure legal to use a fist, brick, or even gun to stop me - if you feel your life is in danger.

BESIDES... if zimm did everything by the book - why did he feel the need to exaggerate/lie about so many things, tony?   ZImm said "he had his hand over my nose and mouth" - yet he can scream full volume, and there is no blood/dna on trayvon's sleeve/hand?  You'd think a little widdle detail like that would kinda matter when shooting someone in the heart.

Tony, at the very least - do you AGREE that zimmerman probably exaggerated the part about trayvon covering his nose/mouth after punchign him?

so you have no proof what so ever that trayvon knew about the gun before he assaulted zimmerman?

[tu_holmes]

so you have no proof what so ever that trayvon knew about the gun before he assaulted zimmerman?

Serious question to people... If a guy was chasing you down, forget weapons, but just chasing you. What would you do? Would you turn and confront him or would you wait until he chases you around the corner and pop him?

I'm seriously unsure myself... I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that I would do either one. Guess it would just depend on my mood at the time. How fearful of my life am I... things like that.

[tonymctones]

To the guys that really want to believe Zimmerman, let me ask:

How do you process the fact that he is known liar, and furthermore that he would have such tremendous incentive to lie about this encounter?

Just a little aside, that's made me wonder.  I'd appreciate an honest answer from as many of you as possible.

Its not that I want to believe zimmerman, its that in this country your innocent until proven guilty...

the facts as we know them dont point to his guilt, if you have facts to show he lied about this then by all means show them and we will go from there.

you and the other nitwits have made assumption after assumption to fit it to your preconcieved notion that zimmerman is guilty

[tonymctones]

Serious question to people... If a guy was chasing you down, forget weapons, but just chasing you. What would you do? Would you turn and confront him or would you wait until he chases you around the corner and pop him?

I'm seriously unsure myself... I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that I would do either one. Guess it would just depend on my mood at the time. How fearful of my life am I... things like that.

havent been doing any cardio lately, hiding and jumping them is the only chance I would have

seriously, like I said in another thread at trayvons age I probably would have been just as big of a shit head as he was and confronted zimmerman.

[tu_holmes]

havent been doing any cardio lately, hiding and jumping them is the only chance I would have

seriously, like I said in another thread at trayvons age I probably would have been just as big of a shit head as he was and confronted zimmerman.

So would you say that Zimmerman, with what we know currently, is at fault for the outcome? More so than Trayvon Martin?

[Shockwave]

shit, some dude 30+ pounds bigger and 10 years older starts chasing him without ID'ing himself as police... he fears for his life and uses his fists to try to halt a threat.  legal. 

tony, I can see you on the street and chase you 2 blocks and run at you full speed - and you're damn sure legal to use a fist, brick, or even gun to stop me - if you feel your life is in danger.

BESIDES... if zimm did everything by the book - why did he feel the need to exaggerate/lie about so many things, tony?   ZImm said "he had his hand over my nose and mouth" - yet he can scream full volume, and there is no blood/dna on trayvon's sleeve/hand?  You'd think a little widdle detail like that would kinda matter when shooting someone in the heart.

Tony, at the very least - do you AGREE that zimmerman probably exaggerated the part about trayvon covering his nose/mouth after punchign him?

That's not evidence. That's you making an assumption, again.

And its pretty obvious you've never been in a fight, or youd know things aren't real clear when there is a man on top of you trying to hit you or get his hands on your head.

It could be that he's exaggerating because he's scared shitless he may go to jail, or he may be honestly telling.them what he thinks he remembers happening. As I said, If you'd ever actually been in a fight you'd know that its pretty fucking hard to know what's going on with a guys hands in your face, and the adrenaline flowjnf. No one knows.

[Shockwave]

So would you say that Zimmerman, with what we know currently, is at fault for the outcome? More so than Trayvon Martin?

Equal fault ImHO. I know you weren't talkong to me..... But Martin could have always ignored hin all together, or just asked him what he was doing without initiating a violent confrontation, just as zimmerman could have listened to the 911 operator and just left him alone. They both chose to engage each other.

[tonymctones]

So would you say that Zimmerman, with what we know currently, is at fault for the outcome? More so than Trayvon Martin?

no both the morons are at fault.

Trayvon shouldnt have run and then after running shouldnt have confronted zimmerman.

zimmerman shouldnt have got out of the car and followed trayvon

[tu_holmes]

Equal fault ImHO. I know you weren't talkong to me..... But Martin could have always ignored hin all together, or just asked him what he was doing without initiating a violent confrontation, just as zimmerman could have listened to the 911 operator and just left him alone. They both chose to engage each other.

I don't know if I would agree.

Yes, Trayvon could have ignored him, but isn't that what he was doing before he was being followed?

According to all reports, young Martin was in the process of ignoring him when he realized he was being followed and that's when it hit the fan.

[Shockwave]

I don't know if I would agree.

Yes, Trayvon could have ignored him, but isn't that what he was doing before he was being followed?

According to all reports, young Martin was in the process of ignoring him when he realized he was being followed and that's when it hit the fan.

Zimmerman has also said he turned around and had given up following him. and either way, if I was walking down the street and someone was following me, I wouldn't firm around and engage him, is ignore him and if he kept following me is find a suitable place to disappear or set an ambush, attacking a stranger head on is asking to get fucked up. Dude had a million options, he chose violence. He rolled the dice and he lost

[tonymctones]

I don't know if I would agree.

Yes, Trayvon could have ignored him, but isn't that what he was doing before he was being followed?

According to all reports, young Martin was in the process of ignoring him when he realized he was being followed and that's when it hit the fan.

being followed doesnt give you the right to assault someone

[tu_holmes]

Zimmerman has also said he turned around and had given up following him. and either way, if I was walking down the street and someone was following me, I wouldn't firm around and engage him, is ignore him and if he kept following me is find a suitable place to disappear or set an ambush, attacking a stranger head on is asking to get fucked up. Dude had a million options, he chose violence. He rolled the dice and he lost

I'm not saying I don't understand. I'm saying that there's a lot of things that zimmerman did to instigate the confrontation.