Can You Grow On 250mgs of Test/wk On A First Cycle???

[millineum man]

Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions. Let's say you maxed out your natural potential by putting the work in the gym and out. Focusing on the basics(Squats and Deads over 400+lbs for reps, DB Benches with 130's for reps, and 1 Arm Rows with 140's). Would Test@250mgs/wk be a good place to start? Yes or no? Have any of you tried 250mgs of Test/wk and made substantial progress? I'm going to stay on at least 6 months, either way.

[ESFitness]

sure you'll grow. that's about double your natural production. should put you well above 1200ng.

[visualizeperfection]

of course.

great first cycle.

low dose is the way to go.

it helps prevent you from being "all drugs" for the most part.

at those dose you wont need AI's as much.

its a good base to also learn how to train differently when on gear.

[ESFitness]

Guys, I'd like to get some veteran opinions. Let's say you maxed out your natural potential by putting the work in the gym and out. Focusing on the basics(Squats and Deads over 400+lbs for reps, DB Benches with 130's for reps, and 1 Arm Rows with 140's). Would Test@250mgs/wk be a good place to start? Yes or no? Have any of you tried 250mgs of Test/wk and made substantial progress? I'm going to stay on at least 6 months, either way.

should've read the whole thing...

squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.

I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.

it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.

I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.

[ProudVirgin69]

Absolutely.  You're over 40, correct?  You'll feel it even more.

Definitely enough to get the good effects of juice with minimal sides.  If you feel plucky you can toss an oral or fast-acting steroid in here or there for 4 weeks, but you can run the 250 indefinitely

[visualizeperfection]

of course.

great first cycle.

low dose is the way to go.

it helps prevent you from being "all drugs" for the most part.

at those dose you wont need AI's as much.

its a good base to also learn how to train differently when on gear.

should've read the whole thing...

squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.

I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.

it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.

I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.

Yeah I should of elaborated more. But thats what I was saying regarding rep ranges. "pump" exercises are best for gear w a good amount of volume.

heavy and lower reps is optimal for natural imo 

[millineum man]

should've read the whole thing...

squats and deads.. and db benches and 1 arm rows. 'for reps'.. does that mean 2-4 reps? that's fine and dandy for a powerlifter, but if you want to grow, you'll probably see better results if you pull a 100lbs off the bar and hit it for a few sets of 8-12. not saying what you're doing isn't working for you, but if you wanna grow ( I dunno what your goals are) your body will most likely respond better to more volume (not "high" volume.. i'd just stay away from the 2-4 rep stuff for the most part) while on 'gear'.

I started at 100mg/wk for the first cycle.. I should've done double.. second cycle was 250/wk, and so on. I made great gains that I absolutely noticed a difference when I went off.

it's your first cycle, i'd make the most of it and add something else probably deca at 1cc (200-300mg/wk) per week as long as you're on the test. you'll find that 200-300mg deca wont' do jack shit after a couple years of using anabolics though. lol.

I think after your first 6 month cycle, you'll be wishing you could go back and use 500mg/wk or use deca as well, instead of just the 250/wk test.

ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.

What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?  

[visualizeperfection]

ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.

What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?  

take the money you would throw at deca and buy more test and add some dbol for the first month or so

[ESFitness]

ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.

What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?  

that's up to you. use as much as you'd like or can afford.

there's no rule that says you need to increase the dose every cycle. obviously, the more you use, the easier it is to make and maintain gains.

I generally use the same dose and have for a long time when 'on'. none of this 'increase it by 50mg/wk each cycle' type of stuff.. if that were really needed, we'd have guys using 30g/wk who've been using for 20+ years.

[Wolfox]

Here's my theory...

Since you have a good natural foundation, for now I would try cycling instead of staying on for such a long time.  

Get the most out of your first cycle while still keeping the dosages on the low-moderate side. Throw in some dbol for the first 5 weeks from 20-30mgs daily. Run some test at 250mg and move it up to 500mgs depending on how you respond for 12-15 weeks total. Use hcg and have your nuts up and running. See how much you retain and then make your choice if you wanna stay on long term.  

You have a solid foundation... you don't need to stay on permanently to be yolked. This is what separates you from most people here, on the net, and IRL. However, most the people giving you advice for long term usage will lack that foundation you have... so you need to keep that in mind.

If you 'plan' to run 250mgs a week for 6 months whats gonna happen is you're gonna get the bulk of your gains in the first 3 months...and you're gonna end up increasing the dosage later on wishing you would have made the most out of those first 3 months. Might as well cycle like I said above and take advantage of those famous 'first cycle gains'.... then get off and be healthier for it. Worst case scenario with my plan? you end up cruising on trt dosages which is basically in line with your original plan anyway. Worst case scenario with a 6 month cycle? you wish you could have went back in time and made the most of those first cycle gains... only there's no time machine drug.

[millineum man]

Absolutely.  You're over 40, correct?  You'll feel it even more.

Definitely enough to get the good effects of juice with minimal sides.  If you feel plucky you can toss an oral or fast-acting steroid in here or there for 4 weeks, but you can run the 250 indefinitely

Yes, sir. Soon to be 40 next month. 6'3" 235lbs and 8-9% bf. My aim is more of a "Men's Physique" type than all out mass if that makes any sense.

[millineum man]

Here's my theory...

Since you have a good natural foundation, for now I would try cycling instead of staying on for such a long time.  

Get the most out of your first cycle while still keeping the dosages on the low-moderate side. Throw in some dbol for the first 5 weeks from 20-30mgs daily. Run some test at 250mg and move it up to 500mgs depending on how you respond for 12-15 weeks total. Use hcg and have your nuts up and running. See how much you retain and then make your choice if you wanna stay on long term.  

You have a solid foundation... you don't need to stay on permanently to be yolked. This is what separates you from most people here, on the net, and IRL. However, most the people giving you advice for long term usage will lack that foundation you have... so you need to keep that in mind.

If you 'plan' to run 250mgs a week for 6 months whats gonna happen is you're gonna get the bulk of your gains in the first 3 months...and you're gonna end up increasing the dosage later on wishing you would have made the most out of those first 3 months. Might as well cycle like I said above and take advantage of those famous 'first cycle gains'.... then get off and be healthier for it. Worst case scenario with my plan? you end up cruising on trt dosages which is basically in line with your original plan anyway. Worst case scenario with a 6 month cycle? you wish you could have went back in time and made the most of those first cycle gains... only there's no time machine drug.

In your opinion, it's better to start with 500mgs of Test/wk along with 20-30mgs Dbol/ed for the first 5 weeks to get "more bang for the buck"? Or 250mgs of Test/wk with the Dbol?

[Wolfox]

In your opinion, it's better to start with 500mgs of Test/wk along with 20-30mgs Dbol/ed for the first 5 weeks to get "more bang for the buck"? Or 250mgs of Test/wk with the Dbol?

If you plan on cycling and want to maximize your gains, I would jump right in at 500mgs. If you have any estro issues thats why we have ancillaries. (to pull from ESF's book)

Your gains will be dosage dependent.


Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.

Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.

[Wolfox]

You didn't talk about your goals?

You mention how much you lift... are you a strength athlete? If so then my theory and advice will be different. Strength athletes should do lower dosages unless they compete in the fatso division.

[millineum man]

You didn't talk about your goals?

You mention how much you lift... are you a strength athlete? If so then my theory and advice will be different. Strength athletes should do lower dosages unless they compete in the fatso division.

No, not at all. Just a gym rat that wants to grow and stay on the dry side without a lot of water bloat. If I had to put a number out there, my goal is 12-15lbs of LBM over 20-24 weeks or 250lbs 9% bf. After that point, I'm thinking about dropping down to a TRT dose(150mgs of Test/wk) for a break.

[Wolfox]

No, not at all. Just a gym rat that wants to grow and stay on the dry side without a lot of water bloat. If I had to put a number out there, my goal is 10-12lbs of LBM over 20-24 weeks. After that point, I'm thinking about dropping down to a TRT dose(150mgs of Test/wk) for a break.

If you don't want the dbol bloat then either don't run it or use ancillaries(esf can help recommend)... but 500mgs of test should be ok. If not, thats what are for ancillaries.    

This study has shown that there is no difference in water gains between 300mgs and 600mgs. There is however a significant difference in LBM gain.  LBM increased by 11.7 lb @ 300mgs  and 18.7 lb @ 600mgs.  

You wanna GETBIG or what?  

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion.

[BAST]

what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol?  no bloating with the same gains right?

and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?   

[Wolfox]

what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol?  no bloating with the same gains right?

and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?  

The issue with tbol and anavar is wondering if it's actually legit. 

But yes, if not dbol at beginning run a different oral. Long ester Tests take a while to kick in so use an oral to jump start.

[ESFitness]

what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol?  no bloating with the same gains right?

and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?   

I'm all for it.

I'm not a fan of using the weaker drugs just because they're 'safer'. you're better off using 25mg/day of tren as opposed to 100mg/day or primo or var.

not much of a fan of tbol. it was hyped for years before IP started producing it again around 01 or something... it was like the holy grail, some exotic drug that only top level pros had access to and was responsible for the 'pro look' or some nonsense.

why use var when you can use methyltrienolone?

why use masteron when you can use tren?

why use eq when you can use tren/deca/npp?

why use primo when you can use tren/deca/npp?

why use winstrol when you can use masteron/methyltrienolone?

why use proviron when you can use masteron?

stick to the simple stuff that works all the time. test, tren, deca/npp, dbol/drol/methyltrienolone... and possibly masteron or proviron for specific effects/purposes.

[Damios]

why use var when you can use methyltrienolone?

why use masteron when you can use tren?

why use eq when you can use tren/deca/npp?

why use primo when you can use tren/deca/npp?

why use winstrol when you can use masteron/methyltrienolone?

why use proviron when you can use masteron?

ESF, you could say it shorter; "why use others when you can use tren?" 

[Simple Simon]

ESF, sorry I should have clarified. The Squats are 405lbs for 10 reps, on Deads I don't go lower than 5 reps for 455lbs, Db Benches with 130's for 6 reps, and 1 Arm Rows for 140lbs for 6-7.

What if I started with 250mgs of Test/wk along with 300mgs of Deca/wk for 6 months? Then, bump it up to 500mgs of Test?  

Stop getting carried away, you will gain on 250mgs Test.

Leave it at that for your first course.

[galeniko]

well, you can listen to wolfox who has never touched a steroid in his life(sorry bro)

or you cn listen to esfitness who runs 5gramms of gear and is definitely definitely smaller than i am even when off gear,m not joking.

i will rarely ever post any such advice or tips anymore, because ppl are just idiots, so be it.

you can use whatever you want, tren, why not i hear some justify some kind hrt use of that, lol.

or you can do the smartest thing and just run 200mg test weekly for half yer and see how tht goes.


beyond that, well, do you want to go beyond that?

what do you want?

ah this topic is hugely annoying, so im out.

beware of listening to folks who never took steroids, or who megadose and look raher like nothing.


after more than a decade the one conclusion for me is, the high dosage experiments were the most stupid thing to do, greed in the wrong place.

[falco]

If you are talking about 250mg of pharmacy testosterone yes very good.
If from 10ml vials made in dundgeon with no sanitary conditions and rat semen floating around inside then no, go natural.

[visualizeperfection]

If you are talking about 250mg of pharmacy testosterone yes very good.
If from 10ml vials made in dundgeon with no sanitary conditions and rat semen floating around inside then no, go natural.

I lol'd at rat semen.

solid post.

[ProudVirgin69]

what's everyone's opinion on using turanabol to kick start rather than dbol?  no bloating with the same gains right?

and what's everyone's opinion on using tren with the test for 1st cycle?   

Tbol is great stuff.... kinda like a cross between dbol and anavar if i had to describe it.

Pretty easy to find legit from a ugl, or else you can just buy a Halodrol-clone prohormone from Amazon.  Hdrol is pretty much the same thing as tbol