GH15 might want to look in to The Luke knowledge

[EL Mariachi]

Roberts is about 24 and Levrones looks bigger.

I don't think Levrone lied.

there is something fishy about that tape

[The Luke]

I don't think K Lo ever had 24" arms. But that formula you posted about a person of such and such body weight having such and such arm size is something you pulled out of your ass. People have already disproven it by citing the differences in arm size between guys like Lee Priest and Dan Hill.

I'll put it very simply this way - arm size DOES NOT have a correlation of 1 with body weight, which is the basic flaw in your argument. Guys who are lighter than others who are heavier have bigger arms than the latter - lots of people see this in gyms everyday.

You are the one who posted that body weight to arm size ratio chart. Why don't you prove that there are no exceptions to your rule? You can't, because it's just not universally true.

I claimed a square dependence... what the hell are you talking about?


Get real dude, you don't even understand the ratio... first you claimed I was citing surface area, now you are citing differences between people of different heights... you don't even understand the math.

It's an approximate MINIMUM lean bodyweight required to have a certain arm measurement (assuming average height).

Someone having SMALLER arms than the minimum PROVES my claim, it doesn't disprove it.


If you don't understand that circumferences relate to areas... maybe it's time to take a remedial math class.

As for me having to prove my ratio works in all instances: do you want me to measure all 6.8 billion people on this planet?... why don't you just provide ONE EXCEPTION to my rule?

After all, if this was gravity we were discussing, would the onus be on the person explaining the maths of an easily observed and already verified phenomenon... or would the onus of proof be on the person who claimed gravity doesn't apply to certain people?


The Luke

[EL Mariachi]

There a vide showing a guy measuring his arm over 23

mariachi.  I'm sure you don't think groinks are are 18 inches cmon dude

Not because someone has big arms means he may necessarily want to tape them to prove a point you say you would if you had extraordinarily big arms that's you. Not everyone is like that. Cranky to a guy with big arms it's not that much of a big deal because he is used to big arms  

yeah but groing only  posted  437 pics of his biceps so far

[TRIX]

from pumping iron, he looks huge on stage with the lights and the low bodyfat... but come on, there is no way his arms are 22's.. he had no delts either (which makes his arms appear larger)

[The Luke]

Regarding Burneika's arm...

1-Not a proper perpendicular measurement (you can add up to 2'' by going diagonally around the measurement)
2-Slack tape
3-Something foreign in his biceps and triceps


Regarding Kiwiol's continued poor reading comprehension..

The ratio I posted doesn't assert that everyone at the same bodyweight has the same arm measurement... it asserts that there is a minimum bodyweight requirement for each lean arm measurement (for people within one standard deviation of average height).

If you don't understand that, think of it in terms of "A bodybuilder of average height must have x amount of lean bodyweight to have a y sized arm (y + 2'' gives the calf measurement)."


The Luke

[kiwiol]

18'' arm would go with 216 lbs ...which surprisingly matches the verified mass/measurement ratio for most 1970s competitors

19'' arm would go with 241 lbs ...which surprisingly matches Schwarzenegger's verified mass/measurement ratio

These calculations are about right on for a bodybuilder in contest shape with extremely low bodyfat

Luke, look at this post of yours. Lee Priest competes at somewhere around 210 lb, give or take a few. So there is no way his arms would measure even 19", let alone more in contest shape, which is not true, cause his arms are much bigger than 19" onstage.

Do I have a video of it? No I don't. But I've seen Lee guest pose about 2 days out of a contest years ago and he was still in shape, cause he still had 2 more shows coming up within the span of a week or so. And trust me, his arms were close to 21".

[Emmortal]

Roberts is about 24 and Levrones looks bigger.

I don't think Levrone lied.

First off that tape is lose, secondly, just because something "looks" bigger doesn't mean it is.  Visual appearance can never be credited as a valid form of measurement.  It's only good to make an estimation, nothing more.

And last, thinking that a pro bodybuilder never lied about anything, especially when it comes to measurements, is naive at best and simply laughable at worst.

I don't concur with the Luke's formula because, as proven, there are too many variables involved to make such a simple deduction.  I do however believe that pro arm sizes are actually not as big as people think they are, there's so much bullshit and lies fed that people eat it up.  Most of these guys arms are probably closer to the 19-21" range cold.  Yates himself, who had decent sized arms (not the best by any means) said his arms never got over 19.5" at their very best which was probably closer to later in his career when he was his heaviest.  So that means his arms were in the 18" range for most of his career.  How some of you think guys like Heath or Coleman had/have 24" arms is just simply absurd.

[hazbin]

Correct kiwiol most of these measurements are overblown look at this pic is there anyone with a bigger arm even today? Dont take Method101's arm into consideration.

Arnold did not do juice all year round. when Arthur Jones measured his arm he was offseason, why else would he disrupt his contest training to visit the Jones camp.  if you have seen offseason pics of Arnold, even in his prime years, there were months that he was tiny.  anyone who thinks his arm was less than 20 at his largest is wrong

[Mr Nobody]

Arnold did not do juice all year round. when Arthur Jones measured his arm he was offseason, why else would he disrupt his contest training to visit the Jones camp.  if you have seen offseason pics of Arnold, even in his prime years, there were months that he was tiny.  anyone who thinks his arm was less than 20 at his largest is wrong

X2

[The Luke]

Luke, look at this post of yours. Lee Priest competes at somewhere around 210 lb, give or take a few. So there is no way his arms would measure even 19", let alone more in contest shape, which is not true, cause his arms are much bigger than 19" onstage.

Do I have a video of it? No I don't. But I've seen Lee guest pose about 2 days out of a contest years ago and he was still in shape, cause he still had 2 more shows coming up within the span of a week or so. And trust me, his arms were close to 21".

I already addressed this...

Lee Priest is the closest thing I've seen to an exception to the ratio: his arm has been verified at 21.5'' at 240 lbs.

In contest shape: 190 lbs to 210 lbs his arms would be just under 21 inches.

But, like I already pointed out, he's more than one standard deviation below average height.


Even in his extreme case: well below average height; slightly dwarfed and oddly proportioned (he's ALL arms) he's still only an inch outside the scale... so my assertion that NO ONE is 2'' outside the scale STILL HOLDS TRUE.

If my ratio is so wrong, why does it predict every VERIFIED arm/weight measurement ever taken of any pro bodybuilder?

Read back over my last few posts... I explained it all in detail.


The Luke

[kiwiol]

I already addressed this...

Lee Priest is the closest thing I've seen to an exception to the ratio: his arm has been verified at 21.5'' at 240 lbs.

In contest shape: 190 lbs to 210 lbs his arms would be just under 21 inches.

Let's say they're 20.5" onstage. How big do you think Ronnie's arms are in the pics below (2000 Mr Olympia), where he (Ronnie) weighed around 260 lb?

[Wiggs]

Let's say they're 20.5" onstage. How big do you think Ronnie's arms are in the pic below (2000 Mr Olympia), where he (Ronnie) weighed around 260 lb?

This sir is proof of major pwnage and this is pre 287 - 294 lb Ron. 

[kiwiol]

this is pre 287 - 294 lb Ron. 

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. Lee Priest is the exception and by the Luke's own admission, has 20 something inch arms onstage. But compare his arms to those of Ronnie or Kevin or Paul Dillett or Nasser (from the 1997 Olympia, for example) and anyone can see that they have at least 22 something inch arms (about 1.5" - 2" bigger), which makes the post below wrong, cause all those guys weighed somewhere between 240 lb and 270 lb

19'' arm would go with 241 lbs ...which surprisingly matches Schwarzenegger's verified mass/measurement ratio

20'' arm would go with 267 lbs ...which surprisingly matches Dorian Yates' verified (offseason '93) mass/measurement ratio

21'' arm would go with 294 lbs ...which surprisingly matches Lou Ferrigno's verified mass/measurement ratio

22'' arm would go with 323 lbs ...which surprisingly matches Ronnie's VERIFIED mass/measurement ratio

These calculations are about right on for a bodybuilder in contest shape with extremely low bodyfat

[mesmorph78]

Not that it matters to me but coleman's arms there dwarves lees I'd estimate 22 to 23 inches  there at least

[The Luke]

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. Lee Priest is the exception and by the Luke's own admission, has 20 something inch arms onstage. But compare his arms to those of Ronnie or Kevin or Paul Dillett or Nasser (from the 1997 Olympia, for example) and anyone can see that they have at least 22 something inch arms (about 1.5" - 2" bigger), which makes the post below wrong, cause all those guys weighed somewhere between 240 lb and 270 lb

The comment:
"These calculations are about right on for a bodybuilder in contest shape with extremely low bodyfat"

Was added by another poster who quoted me then added a comment inside the quote box (by mistake).


I never wrote that, so let's not go the route of deliberate misquoting... it's childish.


The Luke

[kiwiol]

The comment:
"These calculations are about right on for a bodybuilder in contest shape with extremely low bodyfat"

Was added by another poster who quoted me then added a comment inside the quote box (by mistake).


I never wrote that, so let's not go the route of deliberate misquoting... it's childish.


The Luke

OK, my bad and that one line isn't what we're arguing about anyway. As you can see from the pics above as well as from the 97 Olympia where Lee was slightly bigger, guys like Ronnie, Kevin, Nasser and Paul all have arms around 22" - 23" at body weights ranging from 245 lb - 270 lb, which negates your formula.  

[The Luke]

OK, my bad and that one line isn't what we're arguing about anyway. As you can see from the pics above as well as from the 97 Olympia where Lee was slightly bigger, guys like Ronnie, Kevin, Nasser, Paul all have arms around 22" - 23" at body weights ranging from 245 lb - 270 lb, which negates your formula. 

No they don't.

Ronnie's arms were measured at 21.7'' at 300 lbs offseason... you think he adds 3'' of arm size when he diets down 50 lbs?

Again, you are judging by "look"... tape measures give accurate arm measurements... not guessing how big they "look".


The Luke

[mesmorph78]

According to your formula Khan is 353lbs here, LOL.

23.5 inches tape not slack measured properly I just love how luke brushes all this to the side

[mesmorph78]

No they don't.

Ronnie's arms were measured at 21.7'' at 300 lbs offseason... you think he adds 3'' of arm size when he diets down 50 lbs?

Again, you are judging by "look"... tape measures give accurate arm measurements... not guessing how big they "look".


The Luke

funny how you cling on to that video... Yet all other videos and picc showing any pros arms being measured over 22 inches is false ir not measured properly.  In that video  did you see Coleman stand on a scale and see the scale read 300lb .
debating with you is pointless

[kiwiol]

Again, you are judging by "look"... tape measures give accurate arm measurements... not guessing how big they "look".

No one can gauge down to the millimetre how big Ronnie's arms are, from merely looking at his pics, but are you telling me that they are not at least an inch (if not an inch and a half or two) bigger than Lee's in the pics above?

That's Ronnie at 260 lb with an arm measure of around 22". The pic below is him guest posing at well over 300 lb (maybe 310lb or 315 lb). There's no way they are smaller than what they were onstage at the 2000 Mr Olympia. My guess is, they're somewhere between 23" - 24".

Anyone got that pic of Ronnie hitting the side chest shot looking huge beyond belief?

[The Luke]

23.5 inches tape not slack measured properly I just love how luke brushes all this to the side

It's not properly measured.

It's a diagonal measurement.

Anthropometrists are very careful to define an upper arm circumference measurement as being a measurement around the arm at the widest point (usually half way between the elbow and shoulder socket) which is PERPENDICULAR to the humerus.

Diagonal measuring is a trick bodybuilders use to sneak in an extra inch (maybe even two inches if the angle is very acute). If you want to post a pic Mesomorph78, use this cheat... it might even get your 18.5'' arms close to the 20'' you claimed.


A proper perpendicular measurement would bring Zack Khan's arm down to it's real measure of just over 22'' (probably the biggest arms in the sport).

If you give me his bodyweight and bf % I can calculate his maximum upper arm size to within about half an inch, if you'd like?


The Luke

[MAXX]

The Luke do you have some sort of diagnosis? Autism of some kind?

Serious question.

[kiwiol]

funny how you cling on to that video... Yet all other videos and picc showing any pros arms being measured over 22 inches is false ir not measured properly.  In that video  did you see Coleman stand on a scale and see the scale read 300lb .
debating with you is pointless

Exactly. He doesn't want to admit that Ronnie's arms are plainly bigger than Lee's in the pics of the 2000 Olympia above, by a good inch or two. And that's not even Ronnie at his biggest onstage.

This thread came to an end with the posting of the 2000 Olympia pics as far as I'm concerned.

[The Luke]

No one can gauge down to the millimetre how big Ronnie's arms are, from merely looking at his pics...

...My guess is, they're somewhere between 23" - 24".

See the mistake you made?


Really Kiwiol, I get your point, but judge by the bodyweights... Ronnie's arms ARE bigger than Priest's... so that's Priest 20.5'' like you figured and Ronnie approximately 21'' onstage. A 21'' arm equates to a lean bodymass around 260 lbs at 5'10''... but a genuine muscular 24'' arm at 5'10'' equates to a lean bodymass of 350ish lbs...

Seriously, they've autopsied 540 lb male silverback gorillas who didn't have a 24'' arm. That's more than double Ronnie's bodyweight at only 6' tall.


Stop going by "feel" and "look"... do the math. I could reduce the math to a simple factor if you want to work it out for yourself...?


The Luke

[mesmorph78]

Exactly. He doesn't want to admit that Ronnie's arms are plainly bigger than Lee's in the pics of the 2000 Olympia above, by a good inch or two. And that's not even Ronnie at his biggest onstage.

This thread came to an end with the posting of the 2000 Olympia pics as far as I'm concerned.

true ... He is very biased one sided and tries to colour fact to support his arguments.
That video he so desperatley clings to is clearly not ronnie at his biggest yet luke has used that video to gauge ronnies arm measurements for all time based on that video..  Claiming and stating as fact that ronnie was 300lb in the video
luke again I ask is it a fact that ronnie was 300lb in the video
if so please point me to the part where he stepped on a scale
if you can't then please withdraw your statement.
Thanks in advance