" All-loving God "

[OzmO]

Quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil.  Quote the Bible where it says all those other things you said, rape, and all that stuff.  Then we'll discuss further.     

I just did.

i'll do it again.

Isaiah:45-7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

You are a smart and educated person.

Use grammar:   I make peace, and create evil.  You can take the peace part out becuase of the "and"   therefore I create evil.

Here we are in black and white discussing the Bible, and you are denying it.

Is it only good to interpret the Bible when it fits into your own personal beliefs?

Is it only good to quote the passages of the bible you can preach with and ignore some fo the other things like "i create evil"?



 

Also Again,  what is war now?  A chess game?

What  is war???

huh?

[Colossus_500]

So your God admits to mass murder and you still follow him?

What kind of person are you??

God has ordered the slaughter of even women and children before (Old Testament).  Is that what you have issues with?  

Tre, whether you want him to be or not, God is YOUR God too.  God is truth, and truth is true whether you agree with it or not.  

[loco]

I just did.

i'll do it again.

Isaiah:45-7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

Quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil.  Quote the Bible where it says all those other things you said, rape, and all that stuff.  Then we'll discuss further.     

[OzmO]

Quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil.  Quote the Bible where it says all those other things you said, rape, and all that stuff.  Then we'll discuss further.     

have i said in this debate that god CREATED evil?

no.

I said he creates evil.

Just like a clock builder build clocks.   

Do you still deny this "word of God"?

[OzmO]

Quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil.  Quote the Bible where it says all those other things you said, rape, and all that stuff.  Then we'll discuss further.     

You said god creates wars where needed................   what is war loco?   just a word?

I have quoted the bible and you deny it.

You are denying the "word of God": "I create Evil"

end of story.

[Colossus_500]

This is why, among other things, i say the BIBLE is NOT the 100% word of GOD.

Based on this understanding, it simply means you are making the BIBLE a matter of convenience with respect to what you believe.  I, personally speaking, have an incredibly hard team reading through the BIBLE with the mindset that it is the infallable word of God.  Know what I mean?  It's hard for me to argue that the things Elijah did in the Old Testament are not to be taken literally, along with arguing with the fact that there was no flood.  We can't pick and choose what's true about the Bible.  If you argue even one iota of the Bible, then you have to discredit everything  I'm guessing that's why you have the mindset that it's not 100%.  But if you look at it from the perspective of absolute truth.  If you believe that God Himself is absolute truth, then it has to be one or the other....either you believe in the Bible, or you don't.  In other words, it's my opinion that if you deny the authenticity of God, then you deny the authenticity of God.  That's just my mindset.

Did God literally write the bible?  No, but it is absolutely God-inspired.  

[OzmO]

Based on this understanding, it simply means you are making the BIBLE a matter of convenience with respect to what you believe.  I, personally speaking, have an incredibly hard team reading through the BIBLE with the mindset that it is the infallable word of God.  Know what I mean?  It's hard for me to argue that the things Elijah did in the Old Testament are not to be taken literally, along with arguing with the fact that there was no flood.  We can't pick and choose what's true about the Bible.  If you argue even one iota of the Bible, then you have to discredit everything  I'm guessing that's why you have the mindset that it's not 100%.  But if you look at it from the perspective of absolute truth.  If you believe that God Himself is absolute truth, then it has to be one or the other....either you believe in the Bible, or you don't.  In other words, it's my opinion that if you deny the authenticity of God, then you deny the authenticity of God.  That's just my mindset.

Did God literally write the bible?  No, but it is absolutely God-inspired. 

 I see what you are saying.....  but passages such as "do on to others"  or "as a man thinketh so is he" ( i might have mis-quoted that one) are very indicative of GOD it's hard for me to discount 100% of it.  Actually, i think it's like 80% or something.   Just some of the ways God's identified in it doesn't fly with me.   So to me that doesn't discount the other 80% as God's word.  And you can find similar things in other religious writings.

Every book has some truth.  I would concede that perhaps the bible has the most.

[OzmO]

See now Loco disengaged on a word for word point right out of the bible.

"I create Evil"

[loco]

have i said in this debate that god CREATED evil?

no.

I said he creates evil.

GOD just said he did create evil.   

[OzmO]

And after that i said:

Based on what he said though he "does create evil"

Do you deny that God creates evil?

[OzmO]

You are still stuck on something about 20 posts ago. 

Hurry catch up.   

[loco]

You are still stuck on something about 20 posts ago. 

Hurry catch up.   

No, but you are.  Still waiting for you to quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil, that God tells anybody to go rape or murder.  Where is all that in the Bible?   

[loco]

Do you deny that God creates evil?

 

The word "evil" in Isaiah:45-7 means "bad" or  "unpleasant things", just like in Jeremiah 24:3 "evil" figs means "bad" figs:

Jeremiah 24:3
"Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil."

Yes, God creates "evil" in the sense that He sometimes causes "bad" or  "unpleasant things" to happen for a good reason, Noah's flood, the 10 plagues of Egypt, etc.  But God did NOT create evil.

God is good, and to say that God made this kid shoot all those people is..."evil"

Psalm 5:4
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Psalm 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving toward all he has made.

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

Nahum 1:7
The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him,

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights

 

[Oldschool Flip]

Really?  Explain these for me then...if you can.

Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html

Sure........I'll paste and org like you.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/1.html

[loco]

You said god creates wars where needed................   what is war loco?   just a word?

When God creates war, war is Justice.

I never said that God craetes all wars.  According to the Bible, God does create war for judgement.

1 Samuel 15:18
"Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

Now, quote the Bible where God creates murder or rape?  War is not murder.  War is not rape.  Those things may occur during war, but that does not define war and it does not mean that God creates murder or that God creates rape.

[OzmO]

No, but you are.  Still waiting for you to quote the Bible where it says that God created Evil, that God tells anybody to go rape or murder.  Where is all that in the Bible?   

no you said: 

If you want to argue that "evil" in Isaiah:45-7 means "war", I'm okay with that.  Some wars, Noah's flood, the 10 plagues of Egypt, etc. would fall under "bad" and "unpleasant things" God creates when necessary.

Yes.  God loves peace, but war is some times necessary in this sinful world.

That's where i connected th e meaning of WAR:   rape, hunger, death etc....   God creates these things?  that is not a loving compassionate GOD.

NEXT:

The word "evil" in Isaiah:45-7 means "bad" or  "unpleasant things", just like in Jeremiah 24:3 "evil" figs means "bad" figs:

Jeremiah 24:3
"Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil."

Yes, God creates "evil" in the sense that He sometimes causes "bad" or  "unpleasant things" to happen for a good reason, Noah's flood, the 10 plagues of Egypt, etc.  But God did NOT create evil.

God is good, and to say that God made this kid shoot all those people is..."evil"

Psalm 5:4
You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Psalm 145:17
The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving toward all he has made.

Psalm 18:30
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

Nahum 1:7
The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him,

Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights

 

All those verses mean nothing in relation to the passage:

I create evil.

Your assertion that evil = bad or unpleasant things is nothing but a spin on the "black and white" text of I CREATE EVIL.


So we have 2 things being debated here:

1.  God creates evil

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
e·vil      /ˈivəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ee-vuhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2.   harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3.   characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4.   due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5.   marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun
6.   that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7.   the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8.   the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9.   harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10.   anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11.   a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12.   a disease, as king's evil.
–adverb
13.   in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
—Idiom
14.   the evil one, the devil; Satan.



2.  God, according to you, creates wars.   What are wars?  Rape, death destruction etc.....God creates death destruction rape etc.....

[loco]

Sure........I'll paste and org like you.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/1.html

Oh, I've read this one before.  Thanks!  Anything in particular you would like me to comment on?

So are you really going to read mine and explain it?  You should.  It's pretty interesting stuff.  

[loco]

no you said: 


That's where i connected th e meaning of WAR:   rape, hunger, death etc....   God creates these things?  that is not a loving compassionate GOD.

NEXT:


All those verses mean nothing in relation to the passage:

I create evil.

Your assertion that evil = bad or unpleasant things is nothing but a spin on the "black and white" text of I CREATE EVIL.


So we have 2 things being debated here:

1.  God creates evil

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
e·vil      /ˈivəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ee-vuhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.   morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2.   harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3.   characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4.   due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5.   marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun
6.   that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7.   the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8.   the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9.   harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10.   anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11.   a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12.   a disease, as king's evil.
–adverb
13.   in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
—Idiom
14.   the evil one, the devil; Satan.



2.  God, according to you, creates wars.   What are wars?  Rape, death destruction etc.....God creates death destruction rape etc.....

Read my post on war above.   

[OzmO]

When God creates war, war is Justice.

I never said that God craetes all wars.  According to the Bible, God does create war for judgement.

1 Samuel 15:18
"Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

Now, quote the Bible where God creates murder or rape?  War is not murder.  War is not rape.  Those things may occur during war, but that does not define war and it does not mean that God creates murder or that God creates rape.

War is justice?

REally loco?


Have you ever been in a war?   I haven't.  But my grandmother was.  She told me many stories of what war(justice) is like.  It is among other things:  rape, murder, death, dying, suffering............

Where is the justice in an 8 year old boy who sees his mother raped by a soldier?   Well?

Gods creates wars?

War is not rape?  war is not murder?


AIDs isn't harmful either is it?  until you have it...... and war isn't rape, murder etc...  until it happens.

[loco]

Based on this understanding, it simply means you are making the BIBLE a matter of convenience with respect to what you believe.  I, personally speaking, have an incredibly hard team reading through the BIBLE with the mindset that it is the infallable word of God.  Know what I mean?  It's hard for me to argue that the things Elijah did in the Old Testament are not to be taken literally, along with arguing with the fact that there was no flood.  We can't pick and choose what's true about the Bible.  If you argue even one iota of the Bible, then you have to discredit everything  I'm guessing that's why you have the mindset that it's not 100%.  But if you look at it from the perspective of absolute truth.  If you believe that God Himself is absolute truth, then it has to be one or the other....either you believe in the Bible, or you don't.  In other words, it's my opinion that if you deny the authenticity of God, then you deny the authenticity of God.  That's just my mindset.

Did God literally write the bible?  No, but it is absolutely God-inspired.  

Great post, Colossus!

[OzmO]

Read my post on war above.   

re-read the definition of evil.

[loco]

War is justice?

REally loco?


Have you ever been in a war?   I haven't.  But my grandmother was.  She told me many stories of what war(justice) is like.  It is among other things:  rape, murder, death, dying, suffering............

Where is the justice in an 8 year old boy who sees his mother raped by a soldier?   Well?

Gods creates wars?

War is not rape?  war is not murder?


AIDs isn't harmful either is it?  until you have it...... and war isn't rape, murder etc...  until it happens.

God created the war against the Amalekites.  Was your grandmother in that war? 

Funny how you post a quote from the dictionary to define evil, yet you say that the defintion of war is rape.     

[OzmO]

God created the war against the Amalekites.  Was your grandmother in that war? 

Funny how you post a quote from the dictionary to defin evil, yet you say that the defintion of war is rape.     

nice try bud. 

Are you saying in wars there isn't rape?  there isn't murder?  there isn't the death of the innocent?


that's like saying in football there isn't any hitting.

com on,  it is what it is.


Keep avoiding the "I create evil" and keep focusing  on the war thing.  doesn't really matter as they are both trouble for the "infallible word of God argument"

[loco]

Ozmo,
I think that all our posting has slowed down getbig.

I have to go.  Nice chatting with ya!  Have a great evening and God bless you!   

[Colossus_500]

War is justice?

REally loco?


Have you ever been in a war?   I haven't.  But my grandmother was.  She told me many stories of what war(justice) is like.  It is among other things:  rape, murder, death, dying, suffering............

Where is the justice in an 8 year old boy who sees his mother raped by a soldier?   Well?

Gods creates wars?

War is not rape?  war is not murder?


AIDs isn't harmful either is it?  until you have it...... and war isn't rape, murder etc...  until it happens.

I was thinking of an analogy to make a case for what Loco is saying and how you're are processing what he is saying.  Bear with me on this, as it is just an analogy, bro.   

Let's imagine that a football game is the equivolent of war.  The game (war) is a justified battle between two teams who feel they have the right to win the game, therefore warranting the individual players to put forth their best efforts.  This is the concept that I believe Loco is articulating (correct me if I'm wrong, Loco).  How your argument fits into the game (war) is what these individuals do to win, which is sometimes to do dirty stuff, holding, clipping, fighting, spitting, cheap shots, etc.   These "playing dirty" tactics are what I believe to be analogous to the rape and murder that you speak of in a war.

Would you agree with this analogy?