Phil hill has crazy thick full leg's,turned pro easily after winning noc couldn't get in same shape again,hard to imagine.that's how good ray really was that he took national's overall at 21 and at light hvy,longevity is very rare and tough even back in 80's when drug usage was used but maybe not as reckless as today,cycle's were actually cycled,80's bber's were no saint's just maybe smarter.