BTW - I am forty now - so it is not like I havn't tried to put on the extra size. I guess I have answered my own question but just wondering if you actually think it is possible to gain that additional inch through natural training and without piling on extra bodyfat. Vince seems to think it is - and intellectually, on paper it all seems theoretically feasible but as I have said, in reality once I got to 18, without gear, I have never been able to get over 18 inches - and believe me I have tried.