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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on April 24, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
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“your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court”
and
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”
keep in mind when he was doing his little political stunt a month or so ago I said that I didn't think he believed a single word of what he was saying
Now I know that to be a fact
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"I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."
Not that I agree, but you have to understand the context.
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"I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."
Not that I agree, but you have to understand the context.
keep in mind that Rand Paul was trying to pretend that the government might try to use drones against political protesters or people sitting in cafes and other complete absurd situations
also, what happened to "no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court”
he goes from that statement to saying if you just stole $50 bucks it's OK with him to be killed by a drone?
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Man, I can't keep up with how many different opinions RP has on drones
Last month it was
“your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court”
yesterday it was
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”
today it's
"Let me be clear: It has not. Armed drones should not be used in normal crime situations. They may only be considered in extraordinary, lethal situations where there is an ongoing, imminent threat. I described that scenario previously during my Senate filibuster.
"Additionally, surveillance drones should only be used with warrants and specific targets.
"Fighting terrorism and capturing terrorists must be done while preserving our constitutional protections. This was demonstrated last week in Boston. As we all seek to prevent future tragedies, we must continue to bear this in mind."
so now just 24 hours later he doesn't think drones should be used to kill someone who steals $50
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He's a politician, ...that's all you need to know.
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His positions are 'evolving'.
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also, what happened to "no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court”
That's still his stance, the quote was in regard to an imminent threat. The same kind of situation in which a cop would legally and rightfully use lethal force.
I don't think he's actually endorsing using drones in that situation. He didn't contradict himself, he's referring to an imminent threat. I think he just wanted to illustrate his point, and his main concern.
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keep in mind that Rand Paul was trying to pretend that the government might try to use drones against political protesters or people sitting in cafes and other complete absurd situations
also, what happened to "no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court”
he goes from that statement to saying if you just stole $50 bucks it's OK with him to be killed by a drone?
LOL!!!!! Meanwhile - the piece of shit and muslim communist terrorist sympathiser OTWINK does what?
Senate hearing blasts Obama's refusal to share details of drone program
McClatchy Newspapers ^ | April 24, 2013 | Jonathan S. Landay
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:47:45 PM by haffast
WASHINGTON -- Democratic and Republican senators joined a former deputy chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Tuesday in urging the Obama administration to make public more information about its top-secret targeted killing program amid questions about the legality and effectiveness of hundreds of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere.
"More transparency is needed to maintain the support of the American people and the international community" for drone strikes, said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a key Obama ally and the chairman of the Constitution subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The White House refused to send a witness to the Senate's first open hearing on the issue despite President Barack Obama's vow to be more forthcoming about a counterterrorism weapon that has become a despised symbol of U.S. foreign policy in many parts of the world.
"I am disappointed that the administration declined to provide witnesses to testify at today's hearing," Durbin said. His frustration was echoed by several other Democrats and Republicans.
snip
Rosa Brooks, a Georgetown University Law Center professor who served as a Pentagon adviser during the height of the drone strikes, questioned the legality of drone strikes away from active battlefields, saying that the targeted killing policy "is on the verge of doing significant damage to the rule of law."
snip
(Excerpt) Read more at stripes.com ...
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LOL!!!!! Meanwhile - the piece of shit and muslim communist terrorist sympathiser OTWINK does what?
Senate hearing blasts Obama's refusal to share details of drone program
McClatchy Newspapers ^ | April 24, 2013 | Jonathan S. Landay
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:47:45 PM by haffast
WASHINGTON -- Democratic and Republican senators joined a former deputy chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Tuesday in urging the Obama administration to make public more information about its top-secret targeted killing program amid questions about the legality and effectiveness of hundreds of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere.
"More transparency is needed to maintain the support of the American people and the international community" for drone strikes, said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a key Obama ally and the chairman of the Constitution subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The White House refused to send a witness to the Senate's first open hearing on the issue despite President Barack Obama's vow to be more forthcoming about a counterterrorism weapon that has become a despised symbol of U.S. foreign policy in many parts of the world.
"I am disappointed that the administration declined to provide witnesses to testify at today's hearing," Durbin said. His frustration was echoed by several other Democrats and Republicans.
snip
Rosa Brooks, a Georgetown University Law Center professor who served as a Pentagon adviser during the height of the drone strikes, questioned the legality of drone strikes away from active battlefields, saying that the targeted killing policy "is on the verge of doing significant damage to the rule of law."
snip
(Excerpt) Read more at stripes.com ...
what does this have to do with Rand Pauls statements
start your own thread if you want to piss and moan about Obama
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LOL!!!!! Meanwhile - the piece of shit and muslim communist terrorist sympathiser OTWINK does what?
Senate hearing blasts Obama's refusal to share details of drone program
McClatchy Newspapers ^ | April 24, 2013 | Jonathan S. Landay
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:47:45 PM by haffast
WASHINGTON -- Democratic and Republican senators joined a former deputy chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Tuesday in urging the Obama administration to make public more information about its top-secret targeted killing program amid questions about the legality and effectiveness of hundreds of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere.
"More transparency is needed to maintain the support of the American people and the international community" for drone strikes, said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., a key Obama ally and the chairman of the Constitution subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The White House refused to send a witness to the Senate's first open hearing on the issue despite President Barack Obama's vow to be more forthcoming about a counterterrorism weapon that has become a despised symbol of U.S. foreign policy in many parts of the world.
"I am disappointed that the administration declined to provide witnesses to testify at today's hearing," Durbin said. His frustration was echoed by several other Democrats and Republicans.
snip
Rosa Brooks, a Georgetown University Law Center professor who served as a Pentagon adviser during the height of the drone strikes, questioned the legality of drone strikes away from active battlefields, saying that the targeted killing policy "is on the verge of doing significant damage to the rule of law."
snip
(Excerpt) Read more at stripes.com ...
it wouldn't be very top secret than, would it ::)
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he wants to be president. If he said "No, i would not yse drones on boston bad guys", he's soft on terror.
he wants the job, he's not giving his 2016 GOP contenders a line to use against him. They would, and FOX and levin and others would repeat it. Remember them trashing ronpaul because he wasn't sporting a boner to invade iran? Soft on terror, they called him. Rand isn't gonna give them the material to falsely use against him.
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and
keep in mind when he was doing his little political stunt a month or so ago I said that I didn't think he believed a single word of what he was saying
Now I know that to be a fact
Wait, you get pissed at this but not anyone including Obama on the left? Hypocrisy anyone?
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I'm not pissed at rand paul for this. I know what he's believed his entire life. Then I know what I saw in 2012... levin & Hannity completely DESTROYED Ron Paul because he refused to take all the war pledges with everyone else. It was some test, if you didn't promise to nuke Iran, you were somehow soft on terror...
If he refuses to say he would use drones on these terrorists (opting only for bullets and grenades), then these talking heads would call him soft on terrorists. They would. I heard it for weeks on fox radio, every single night. Not for Rand. He's smarter than that.
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I'm not pissed at rand paul for this. I know what he's believed his entire life. Then I know what I saw in 2012... levin & Hannity completely DESTROYED Ron Paul because he refused to take all the war pledges with everyone else. It was some test, if you didn't promise to nuke Iran, you were somehow soft on terror...
If he refuses to say he would use drones on these terrorists (opting only for bullets and grenades), then these talking heads would call him soft on terrorists. They would. I heard it for weeks on fox radio, every single night. Not for Rand. He's smarter than that.
Good point, people like Straw Man aren't voting for him anyway and that's where Ron Paul fucked up.
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Good point, people like Straw Man aren't voting for him anyway and that's where Ron Paul fucked up.
NO candidate will say "um, i wouldn't use drones to kill these terrorists." RPaul can only LOSE by saynig this.
They sandbagged his dad with it. They were pieces of shit about it... really "why is RP so soft on terror?", etc. Just looking for an excuse to mock him, "ruPaul fans", as Levin phrased it.
Ron paul was too honest. HIs son knows his own side will play word games to sink him because he won't pledge to everything like some of the wimps running.
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Good point, people like Straw Man aren't voting for him anyway and that's where Ron Paul fucked up.
he'll never be on a national ticket
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he'll never be on a national ticket
You will go from an obamadrone to a hillarydrone like nothing happened
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"I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him. But it's different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities."
Not that I agree, but you have to understand the context.
this is the same fundy liberal always ranting and raving that obama is being taken out of context
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Rand 2016!!!!!
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You will go from an obamadrone to a hillarydrone like nothing happened
this fundy liberal is a pelosidrone
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Rand 2016!!!!!
The more I learn about him, the more I like him. He's gonna have some issues, but overall I think he's more good than bad.
Gonna have to be careful though, as you can see the tards will grab any stupid thing and make it sound like it's the worst thing in the world.
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Rand 2016!!!!!
I think Rand might have a shot, most of us that usually disagree can agree on him. Hope he can get the religious people and the neocons on board.
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LOL @ all the right wing dipshits having a circle jerk over Rand Paul
I'm sure he will do so much better than his nutbag father
I'll take bets from anyone who wants to actually put some money on Rand Paul being on the ticket in 2016
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I'll take bets from anyone who wants to actually put some money on Rand Paul being on the ticket in 2016
Sometimes I completely agree with your posts, yet other times I think you're a fucking retarded cry baby.
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Sometimes I completely agree with your posts, yet other times I think you're a fucking retarded cry baby.
so I assume by that response that you don't have the balls to put up some money
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so I assume by that response that you don't have the balls to put up some money
I'm not putting any money on the fucking GOP, as nice as a Paul presidency would be. You saw all the shit they pulled at the RNC.
Asshole
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Did I miss something? How would the person running out of the liquor store be given the opportunity to drop the gun and surrender?
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Did I miss something? How would the person running out of the liquor store be given the opportunity to drop the gun and surrender?
Imminent threat, as if he came out shooting/aiming at police officers/innocent people.
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The more I learn about him, the more I like him. He's gonna have some issues, but overall I think he's more good than bad.
Gonna have to be careful though, as you can see the tards will grab any stupid thing and make it sound like it's the worst thing in the world.
not if we dont let them. Not if we dont do what we did in 2012.
remember getbiggers (who liked ron paul) saying it was cool for the RNC to fck him over on that vote, because "it was for the good of the party unity..."
remember getbiggers who stood quietly while levin and others trashed ron paul because he woudln't commit to every promise and pledge that the suck-up, weak-willed GOP field was willing to join?
I hope the repub voters are awesome in 2016, and don't fall for these tricks.
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Imminent threat, as if he came out shooting/aiming at police officers/innocent people.
So the idea is that there are police present to command him to drop the weapon, but a drone may be called in to shoot him?
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So the idea is that there are police present to command him to drop the weapon, but a drone may be called in to shoot him?
I think he made the argument last night on Fox that the drone had a better shot, and the police on the ground were using it just like they would use their own sidearms. He only wanted to demonstrate the point that he's not against this technology, he's against it being used to abuse our privacy, etc. He compared it to those robots that defuse bombs.
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So the idea is that there are police present to command him to drop the weapon, but a drone may be called in to shoot him?
No, if he's an imminent threat he's going to be neutralized asap either way as far as I know. When you're aiming a gun at the police/civilians there's no "drop the weapon", they shoot you.
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His positions are 'evolving'.
Only the Demotwats are allowed to used that excuse.
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remember getbiggers (who liked ron paul) saying it was cool for the RNC to fck him over on that vote, because "it was for the good of the party unity..."
remember getbiggers who stood quietly while levin and others trashed ron paul because he woudln't commit to every promise and pledge that the suck-up, weak-willed GOP field was willing to join?
I hope the repub voters are awesome in 2016, and don't fall for these tricks.
Hmmm. Weren't you the same person who couldn't find the time to vote for Ron Paul in the primary?
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I'm not putting any money on the fucking GOP, as nice as a Paul presidency would be. You saw all the shit they pulled at the RNC.
Asshole
why are you so pissy?
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why are you so pissy?
I found your last two posts pretty annoying.
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I found your last two posts pretty annoying.
try not taking it so personally
it's just a message board
I take plenty of shit from people here including from you
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try not taking it so personally
it's just a message board
I take plenty of shit from people here including from you
As you should - you attack others for the very thing your failed god king obama is actually doing.
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As you should - you attack others for the very thing your failed god king obama is actually doing.
I only give people shit when they lie or say something stupid
It's obviously hard for you to understand that since virtually everything you post is a lie or something stupid
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try not taking it so personally
it's just a message board
I take plenty of shit from people here including from you
I wasn't as butt hurt as I appeared to be from the posts broseph.
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Hmmm. Weren't you the same person who couldn't find the time to vote for Ron Paul in the primary?
i am a registered independent in florida. i moved. i would have had to drive 45 minutes to vote for a guy polling at 8% who had already pulled out of florida. And that's a big IF they would have allowed me to switch party affiliation on site, which it looked like wasn't possible.
Anyone here who says they would have done all this - well, they're a better man than I :)
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No, if he's an imminent threat he's going to be neutralized asap either way as far as I know. When you're aiming a gun at the police/civilians there's no "drop the weapon", they shoot you.
So when he says, "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash..." he means to say the person is aiming the weapon at someone, or...? Trying to figure this out.
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So when he says, "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash..." he means to say the person is aiming the weapon at someone, or...? Trying to figure this out.
no need to figure it out
he already retracted it though just never bother to explain why he said it in the first place
"Let me be clear: It has not. Armed drones should not be used in normal crime situations. They may only be considered in extraordinary, lethal situations where there is an ongoing, imminent threat. I described that scenario previously during my Senate filibuster.
"Additionally, surveillance drones should only be used with warrants and specific targets.
"Fighting terrorism and capturing terrorists must be done while preserving our constitutional protections. This was demonstrated last week in Boston. As we all seek to prevent future tragedies, we must continue to bear this in mind."
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no need to figure it out
he already retracted it though just never bother to explain why he said it in the first place
I'd read that.
Like you, I'm just trying to figure out why he said what he did.
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I'd read that.
Like you, I'm just trying to figure out why he said what he did.
because he's full of shit just like the utter nonsense he was claiming was the reason for his filibuster
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because he's full of shit just like the utter nonsense he was claiming was the reason for his filibuster
I remember when you called him out for being a flake. I'd say you were right on the money.
(but I'm still glad it forced the whole thing into the news, and forced people to think about what's happening)
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So when he says, "If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash..." he means to say the person is aiming the weapon at someone, or...? Trying to figure this out.
I assume so since he used the term imminent threat.
Given his history, I'm not too concerned about this.
"I'm against targeted killings by drones, but I'm also against targeted killing by sniper, by spear, by knife, by club. The technology isn't so important. What I was arguing against in the filibuster was targeted assassination."
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I remember when you called him out for being a flake. I'd say you were right on the money.
(but I'm still glad it forced the whole thing into the news, and forced people to think about what's happening)
He could have done the filibuster without having to draw on absurd examples
That's what I don't understand. His basic reasoning was valid but why stoop to absurd and ridiculous examples that just make him look like an insincere and stupid clown.
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I assume so since he used the term imminent threat.
Given his history, I'm not too concerned about this.
Couldn't such a person with a gun be considered an imminent threat, simply due to his possession of the gun?
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Couldn't such a person with a gun be considered an imminent threat, simply due to his possession of the gun?
I can't answer that.
You're reading too much into this.
"I'm against targeted killings by drones, but I'm also against targeted killing by sniper, by spear, by knife, by club. The technology isn't so important. What I was arguing against in the filibuster was targeted assassination."
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I can't answer that.
You're reading too much into this.
"I'm against targeted killings by drones, but I'm also against targeted killing by sniper, by spear, by knife, by club. The technology isn't so important. What I was arguing against in the filibuster was targeted assassination."
Straw Man has no issue whatsoever w extra judicial drone strikes when its o-fuck doing it
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He could have done the filibuster without having to draw on absurd examples
That's what I don't understand. His basic reasoning was valid but why stoop to absurd and ridiculous examples that just make him look like an insincere and stupid clown.
Someone needed to force the administration to reveal their stand, and make a clear statement.
I'm unhappy with Rand because I hadn't realized that he can't hold a fucking line when he starts to dream of the White House (or whatever his problem turns out to be). That tells me that his convictions are weak, and he is prone toward being a flake.
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This is really a non issue. He was only demonstrating the fact that he doesn't take issue with technology like drones, his problem is abuse of civil rights.
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Straw Man has no issue whatsoever w extra judicial drone strikes when its o-fuck doing it
I don't recall you saying a word about drone strikes when Bush was doing them
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Straw Man has no issue whatsoever w extra judicial drone strikes when its o-fuck doing it
I'm against that shit when it comes to US citizens. I am a citizen protect by the constitution of the united states. I don't give a fuck about what we are doing to the people in a war zone, and if I was there, I would expect the enemy to use that ability on me, but I'm a US citizen and this shit is what the Nazi's would do if they had the tech in the 40s.
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I can't answer that.
You're reading too much into this.
Bro, I'm reading exactly what he's saying. Do you think he could be playing games with words because he wants to have a run at president?
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I don't recall you saying a word about drone strikes when Bush was doing them
Bush barely did it at all next to obama and i i have already made my feelings known on this.
You are a hypocrite of the highest order.
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Bro, I'm reading exactly what he's saying. Do you think he could be playing games with words because he wants to have a run at president?
Yes,
To be honest (whether or not it's wrong) I hope he doesn't fall into the trap his dad did. He has to tell people (neo cons, religious right) what they want to hear to some degree.
"I'm against targeted killings by drones, but I'm also against targeted killing by sniper, by spear, by knife, by club. The technology isn't so important. What I was arguing against in the filibuster was targeted assassination."
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Bush barely did it at all next to obama and i i have already made my feelings known on this.
You are a hypocrite of the highest order.
how exactly do you think I am a hypocrite on this issue
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What I was arguing against in the filibuster was targeted assassination (on Americans, particularly on U.S. soil).
...but speaking like a person who would support what would be an extremely similar type of assassination on an American who may have robbed a liquor store.
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...but speaking like a person who would support what would be an extremely similar type of assassination on an American who may have robbed a liquor store.
Jack, how is targeted assassination extremely similar to a man running out of a liquor store with a weapon in his hand?
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Jack, how is targeted assassination extremely similar to a man running out of a liquor store with a weapon in his hand?
The man emerging from the liquor store has been targeted because he has a weapon and is presumed to have robbed the store.
Would you disagree?
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The man emerging from the liquor store has been targeted because he has a weapon and is presumed to have robbed the store.
Would you disagree?
no, I would agree. We may have to define "targeted" if it's use gets a little muddy but go on..
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The man emerging from the liquor store has been targeted because he has a weapon and is presumed to have robbed the store.
Would you disagree?
In re-reading the posts, I am probably arguing the wrong premise. If we are talking Drone in each case, not much difference. I was picturing the policeman he had mentioned and a possible deadly force confrontation. But drone alone.. yeah, could be similar
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no, I would agree. We may have to define "targeted" if it's use gets a little muddy but go on..
To the person killed, the definition would be quite clear.
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In re-reading the posts, I am probably arguing the wrong premise. If we are talking Drone in each case, not much difference. I was picturing the policeman he had mentioned and a possible deadly force confrontation. But drone alone.. yeah, could be similar
yes, bro. i see.
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and
keep in mind when he was doing his little political stunt a month or so ago I said that I didn't think he believed a single word of what he was saying
Now I know that to be a fact
Way to take what he said out of context.