Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 464064 times)

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #950 on: May 23, 2008, 01:18:28 PM »

as expected, the market failed @ 13,000   12,500 to be our next stop on the downside IMHO.......if not lower.




Stocks drop as oil rally resumes, home woes return


May 23, 2008
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stocks fell on Friday and were poised for weekly losses, as crude oil surged back above $132 a barrel, putting renewed pressure on a market besieged by worries that inflation will crimp consumption and further weaken the economy.

The market's losses accelerated after a report showing inventories of unsold U.S. homes surged to a 23-year high in April. 

"The bear-market rally [of the past two months] has petered out," said Peter Boockvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak. "The economy is not going to do any better anytime soon, as we heard from many companies this week, and on top of that we have surging energy prices."

The DOW was down 145.99 to close at 12,479.63, with 27 of its 30 components trading lower.



NT

War-Horse

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #951 on: May 23, 2008, 07:55:35 PM »

i know at least ONE person is reading it !  ;D


NT



Relentless. lol.       How many views are we up to for this blog of yours.... :o

boonasty

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #952 on: May 24, 2008, 08:59:43 AM »

what are your thoughts on this neurotoxin?


 
Curb on coin sales angers collectors
May 23, 2008 09:18 AM
The Wall Street Journal
The government rationed food during World War II and gasoline in the 1970s. Now, it's imposing quotas on another precious commodity: 2008 dollar coins known as silver eagles.

The coins, each containing about an ounce of silver, have become so popular among investors seeking alternatives to stocks and real estate that the U.S. Mint can't make them fast enough. In March, the mint stopped taking orders for the bullion coins. Late last month, it began limiting how many coins its 13 authorized buyers world-wide are allowed to purchase.

"This came out of nowhere," says Mark Oliari, owner of Coins 'N Things Inc. in Bridgewater, Mass., one of the biggest buyers of silver eagles. With customers demanding twice as many as they did last year, Mr. Oliari would like to buy 500,000 a week. But the mint will sell him only around 100,000.
The coins have a face value of $1. But the mint sells them for the going price of silver, plus a small premium, to a handful of wholesalers, brokerage companies, precious-metals firms, coin dealers and banks. The dealers mark the coins up a bit more and sell them to the public. Currently, the coins are fetching about $19 apiece, with some sellers seeking more than $20.

For Coins N Things alone, the shortage is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost sales of silver eagles. The firm sells about $1 billion worth of precious metal every year, including silver, gold and platinum coins. Mr. Oliari, a 50-year-old numismatist who has been in the business since 1973, sniffs: "You can't print what I want to say about the mint."

The mint, a bureau of the U.S. Treasury, has offered little explanation beyond a memo last month to its dealers. "The unprecedented demand for American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins necessitates our allocating these coins on a weekly basis until we are able to meet demand," the mint wrote. A spokesman declined to elaborate.

The rare shortage offers a glimpse into the growing love of a commodity known as "poor man's gold." With more silver mined than gold traditionally, silver has always been far cheaper than gold and today has less than 2 percent of gold's value.

But silver is growing in popularity, and some investors are betting that its value will surge as inventory shrinks. Big investors are loading up on silver eagles, which are the only American silver coins allowed in individual retirement plans. For small investors, they are an accessible way to get into the metal boom.

"Unlike gold, these coins can be bought by regular citizens," says J.R. Roland, a Brownsville, Tenn., judge who recently began buying the coins - and trading them on eBay. "In these economic hard times, silver coins are a great way to invest."

In March, sales of silver eagles surged more than ninefold from the previous month, to 1.85 million. This year, the mint has sold 6.8 million, representing more than twice last year's pace. Still, numismatists are clamoring for millions more as the price of silver soars. It has more than doubled in the past three years and now trades at around $17 a troy ounce, which is slightly heavier than a traditional ounce.

Linda Wood, a 57-year-old Pittsburgh accountant, scours eBay, coin shops and flea markets in search of silver eagles. One by one, she has accumulated about 300 in the past few months and stores them in a bank safe-deposit box.

Traditional coin collectors may be impressed with the government's written description of silver eagles as "one of the most beautiful coins ever minted." But Ms. Wood isn't in it for aesthetics. She became a silver bug after she and her husband saw the value of their individual retirement accounts decline by $2,500 - a "significant" chunk. "I just need bullion," she says. "I wouldn't care if the coins were ugly."

Amid the mint caps, shady silver-eagle hawkers are thriving. Some coins are priced at $25 and higher. Mr. Roland says that he had to wait a month after ordering some on eBay recently, because the sellers didn't even have the goods. "I can't wait long, because you never know what's going to happen with the price," he says.

In Manitowoc, Wis., Dan Zirk, owner of Manitowoc Card & Coin, has sold twice as many silver eagles as he did last year. So he has stashed away his remaining handful of 2008 coins, betting the price will rise. "I want $22 apiece," says Mr. Zirk. He says customers, meanwhile, are asking for earlier years and other forms of silver.

The government began producing silver eagles in 1986, basing its design on Adolph Weinman's 1916 "Walking Liberty" half dollar. The front features a flag-draped Lady Liberty striding toward the sunrise, carrying branches of laurel and oak symbolizing civil and military glory. On the reverse, a design by John Mercanti features an eagle with a shield, olive branch, and talon and arrows.

The coins are made at an armored facility in West Point, N.Y., alongside the military academy. Dealers say they heard the mint had run out of planchets - round metal disks ready to be struck into coins. The disks are used for various coins, and the companies producing the blanks also are busy, limiting the mint's ability to increase production. The mint won't comment on the planchets.

Each Monday morning now, the mint divides its silver coins into two pools. It divvies up the first equally among authorized purchasers. The second is allocated proportionately, based on the buyer's past purchases. The mint limited purchases once before - in the late 1990s, when investors loaded up on silver, wrongly anticipating that a failure by the world's computers to adjust to the new millennium would cripple the economy.

Jim Hausman, head of the Gold Center in Springfield, Ill., one of eight companies in the U.S. authorized to buy silver eagles, estimates that the rationing will cut his expected annual sales of four million silver eagles in half.

And the result, he says, is almost un-American. Increasingly, investors are taking a shine to alternatives. The Royal Canadian Mint saw its sales of silver Canadian maple-leaf bullion coins rise 40 percent last year, to 3.5 million, according to a spokesman.

Some investors expect the craze to end badly. They draw comparisons to what happened to silver in the 1970s. A rich Texas family poured billions of dollars into silver, and prices surged above $50 an ounce in 1980, only to plunge again after government intervention.

"It's akin to what happened when the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market," says Wendell Curry, who owns McAllen Gold & Silver Exchange in McAllen, Texas. "The silver hawks are now trying to corner silver American eagles. And it's making it harder for mom and pop to buy these for their grandchildren."



Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #953 on: May 24, 2008, 09:06:18 AM »
what are your thoughts on this neurotoxin?


 
Curb on coin sales angers collectors
May 23, 2008 09:18 AM
The Wall Street Journal
The government rationed food during World War II and gasoline in the 1970s. Now, it's imposing quotas on another precious commodity: 2008 dollar coins known as silver eagles.

The coins, each containing about an ounce of silver, have become so popular among investors seeking alternatives to stocks and real estate that the U.S. Mint can't make them fast enough. In March, the mint stopped taking orders for the bullion coins. Late last month, it began limiting how many coins its 13 authorized buyers world-wide are allowed to purchase.

"This came out of nowhere," says Mark Oliari, owner of Coins 'N Things Inc. in Bridgewater, Mass., one of the biggest buyers of silver eagles. With customers demanding twice as many as they did last year, Mr. Oliari would like to buy 500,000 a week. But the mint will sell him only around 100,000.
The coins have a face value of $1. But the mint sells them for the going price of silver, plus a small premium, to a handful of wholesalers, brokerage companies, precious-metals firms, coin dealers and banks. The dealers mark the coins up a bit more and sell them to the public. Currently, the coins are fetching about $19 apiece, with some sellers seeking more than $20.

For Coins N Things alone, the shortage is costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost sales of silver eagles. The firm sells about $1 billion worth of precious metal every year, including silver, gold and platinum coins. Mr. Oliari, a 50-year-old numismatist who has been in the business since 1973, sniffs: "You can't print what I want to say about the mint."

The mint, a bureau of the U.S. Treasury, has offered little explanation beyond a memo last month to its dealers. "The unprecedented demand for American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins necessitates our allocating these coins on a weekly basis until we are able to meet demand," the mint wrote. A spokesman declined to elaborate.

The rare shortage offers a glimpse into the growing love of a commodity known as "poor man's gold." With more silver mined than gold traditionally, silver has always been far cheaper than gold and today has less than 2 percent of gold's value.

But silver is growing in popularity, and some investors are betting that its value will surge as inventory shrinks. Big investors are loading up on silver eagles, which are the only American silver coins allowed in individual retirement plans. For small investors, they are an accessible way to get into the metal boom.

"Unlike gold, these coins can be bought by regular citizens," says J.R. Roland, a Brownsville, Tenn., judge who recently began buying the coins - and trading them on eBay. "In these economic hard times, silver coins are a great way to invest."

In March, sales of silver eagles surged more than ninefold from the previous month, to 1.85 million. This year, the mint has sold 6.8 million, representing more than twice last year's pace. Still, numismatists are clamoring for millions more as the price of silver soars. It has more than doubled in the past three years and now trades at around $17 a troy ounce, which is slightly heavier than a traditional ounce.

Linda Wood, a 57-year-old Pittsburgh accountant, scours eBay, coin shops and flea markets in search of silver eagles. One by one, she has accumulated about 300 in the past few months and stores them in a bank safe-deposit box.

Traditional coin collectors may be impressed with the government's written description of silver eagles as "one of the most beautiful coins ever minted." But Ms. Wood isn't in it for aesthetics. She became a silver bug after she and her husband saw the value of their individual retirement accounts decline by $2,500 - a "significant" chunk. "I just need bullion," she says. "I wouldn't care if the coins were ugly."

Amid the mint caps, shady silver-eagle hawkers are thriving. Some coins are priced at $25 and higher. Mr. Roland says that he had to wait a month after ordering some on eBay recently, because the sellers didn't even have the goods. "I can't wait long, because you never know what's going to happen with the price," he says.

In Manitowoc, Wis., Dan Zirk, owner of Manitowoc Card & Coin, has sold twice as many silver eagles as he did last year. So he has stashed away his remaining handful of 2008 coins, betting the price will rise. "I want $22 apiece," says Mr. Zirk. He says customers, meanwhile, are asking for earlier years and other forms of silver.

The government began producing silver eagles in 1986, basing its design on Adolph Weinman's 1916 "Walking Liberty" half dollar. The front features a flag-draped Lady Liberty striding toward the sunrise, carrying branches of laurel and oak symbolizing civil and military glory. On the reverse, a design by John Mercanti features an eagle with a shield, olive branch, and talon and arrows.

The coins are made at an armored facility in West Point, N.Y., alongside the military academy. Dealers say they heard the mint had run out of planchets - round metal disks ready to be struck into coins. The disks are used for various coins, and the companies producing the blanks also are busy, limiting the mint's ability to increase production. The mint won't comment on the planchets.

Each Monday morning now, the mint divides its silver coins into two pools. It divvies up the first equally among authorized purchasers. The second is allocated proportionately, based on the buyer's past purchases. The mint limited purchases once before - in the late 1990s, when investors loaded up on silver, wrongly anticipating that a failure by the world's computers to adjust to the new millennium would cripple the economy.

Jim Hausman, head of the Gold Center in Springfield, Ill., one of eight companies in the U.S. authorized to buy silver eagles, estimates that the rationing will cut his expected annual sales of four million silver eagles in half.

And the result, he says, is almost un-American. Increasingly, investors are taking a shine to alternatives. The Royal Canadian Mint saw its sales of silver Canadian maple-leaf bullion coins rise 40 percent last year, to 3.5 million, according to a spokesman.

Some investors expect the craze to end badly. They draw comparisons to what happened to silver in the 1970s. A rich Texas family poured billions of dollars into silver, and prices surged above $50 an ounce in 1980, only to plunge again after government intervention.

"It's akin to what happened when the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market," says Wendell Curry, who owns McAllen Gold & Silver Exchange in McAllen, Texas. "The silver hawks are now trying to corner silver American eagles. And it's making it harder for mom and pop to buy these for their grandchildren."




 Enjoy your paper.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #954 on: May 24, 2008, 10:20:16 PM »
Sales of previously owned homes in the U.S. fell in April and the supply of unsold properties reached a record, signaling no let-up in the 27-month housing slump.
Purchases declined 1 percent to an annual rate of 4.89 million, higher than forecast, the National Association of Realtors said today in Washington. The median price fell 8 percent from April last year, the second-biggest drop.

``There is no indication that things are improving,'' said Christopher Low, chief economist at FTN Financial in New York, who forecast sales would drop to a 4.9 million pace. ``Inventories will stay out of balance at least until the end of 2009 and prices will keep falling.''


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #955 on: May 25, 2008, 03:51:13 AM »
Buffett: US recession to become 'longer, deeper'.


May 24, 2008
BERLIN (Reuters) - The United States is already in a recession and it will be longer as well as deeper than many people expect, U.S. investor Warren Buffett said in an interview published in German magazine Der Spiegel on Saturday.


" The people are already feeling the effects," said Buffett, the world's richest man. "It will be deeper and last longer than many think."



NT

youandme

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #956 on: May 25, 2008, 06:15:20 AM »
If you go back to to great depression and the keynes theory, what is going on now is actually setting itself up to be far greater than the depression.

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #957 on: May 25, 2008, 08:33:47 AM »
If you go back to to great depression and the keynes theory, what is going on now is actually setting itself up to be far greater than the depression.


i agree YAM, it's the perfect storm.


NT

youandme

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #958 on: May 25, 2008, 10:18:14 AM »
I heard that citibank was putting restrictions on withdrawal limits now...

War-Horse

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #959 on: May 25, 2008, 10:29:56 AM »
I heard that citibank was putting restrictions on withdrawal limits now...




yep.  Its a free country.






































For the elite corporations........... :-\

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #960 on: May 25, 2008, 11:58:28 AM »
I heard that citibank was putting restrictions on withdrawal limits now...

You mean for their ATM's?

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #961 on: May 25, 2008, 12:07:32 PM »
I heard that citibank was putting restrictions on withdrawal limits now...


this country is totally unprepared for a "run" on banks. F.D.I.C. insurance has a measly 42 billion available if that "run" were to occur.

to put that figure in context, just the bailout of bear stearns cost 30 billion.

unprepared = understatement


NT

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #962 on: May 25, 2008, 12:10:43 PM »

this country is totally unprepared for a "run" on banks. F.D.I.C. insurance has a measly 42 billion available if that "run" were to occur.

to put that figure in context, just the bailout of bear stearns cost 30 billion.

unprepared = understatement


NT

Can someone post a link to this information of limiting withdrawls? thanks.

youandme

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #963 on: May 25, 2008, 12:18:39 PM »
You mean for their ATM's?

no wire transfers as well for some personal account holders, just as with Bank of America and personal accounts.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #964 on: May 25, 2008, 12:25:43 PM »
Americans are too deep in debt to lead the economy into a recovery, according to a new forecast. The result: The recovery will be a bit slower.

 Consumers are too tapped out to lead the economy out of its troubles, according to a report on household credit released Wednesday.

And even after things turn around, consumers weighed down by debt won't be able to spend as they did in the past.

Americans have little money on hand and banks aren't eager to lend anymore, said Scott Hoyt, senior director of consumer economics at Moody's Economy.com, which compiled the quarterly outlook report with Equifax. Consumers had the lowest percentage of unspent cash in the first quarter of 2008 since fall 1991, the report found.

Sluggish consumer spending power means that the recovery may be a little slower and less vigorous, leaving it to corporations to spur the economy



Good luck.

War-Horse

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #965 on: May 25, 2008, 02:32:28 PM »
Americans are too deep in debt to lead the economy into a recovery, according to a new forecast. The result: The recovery will be a bit slower.

 Consumers are too tapped out to lead the economy out of its troubles, according to a report on household credit released Wednesday.

And even after things turn around, consumers weighed down by debt won't be able to spend as they did in the past.

Americans have little money on hand and banks aren't eager to lend anymore, said Scott Hoyt, senior director of consumer economics at Moody's Economy.com, which compiled the quarterly outlook report with Equifax. Consumers had the lowest percentage of unspent cash in the first quarter of 2008 since fall 1991, the report found.

Sluggish consumer spending power means that the recovery may be a little slower and less vigorous, leaving it to corporations to spur the economy



Good luck.




Oh crap.  Theyre the ones screwing us in the first place........... :-[

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #966 on: May 25, 2008, 04:28:18 PM »
Americans are too deep in debt to lead the economy into a recovery, according to a new forecast. The result: The recovery will be a bit slower.

 Consumers are too tapped out to lead the economy out of its troubles, according to a report on household credit released Wednesday.

And even after things turn around, consumers weighed down by debt won't be able to spend as they did in the past.

Americans have little money on hand and banks aren't eager to lend anymore, said Scott Hoyt, senior director of consumer economics at Moody's Economy.com, which compiled the quarterly outlook report with Equifax. Consumers had the lowest percentage of unspent cash in the first quarter of 2008 since fall 1991, the report found.

Sluggish consumer spending power means that the recovery may be a little slower and less vigorous, leaving it to corporations to spur the economy



Good luck.



one problem BD, without a healthy consumer, (70% of all US economic activity) corporations will suffer with lagging profits, making it impossible for them to spur the economy alone. 

the only way out of this economic mess is to "take our medicine" and INCREASE interest rates. with inflation currently running in double digits, ( yes, that's correct ) increasing interest rates will help decrease inflationary pressures by slowing down consumer spending/borrowing and spur savings.

history has proven the Fed's attempt to exit the 2001 recession by lowering interest rates to record lows, failed. in fact, it did little more than create the worst housing crisis since the Great Depression and ignite record inflation.

unfortunately, we cannot borrow our way out of this recession. "taking our medicine" is the only effective cure for what ails us.


NT


 

Slapper

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #967 on: May 26, 2008, 11:08:04 AM »

this country is totally unprepared for a "run" on banks. F.D.I.C. insurance has a measly 42 billion available if that "run" were to occur.

to put that figure in context, just the bailout of bear stearns cost 30 billion.

unprepared = understatement


NT

Fear not, the FDIC has a "window of liquidity" with Da FED.  ;D ;D ;D

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #968 on: May 27, 2008, 09:55:57 AM »
Confidence among US consumers hit its lowest level for 16 years in May, according to the Conference Board.

The research body's Consumer Confidence Index fell to a level of 57.2 in May, down from April's figure of 62.8.

The Conference Board blamed the pessimism on the short-term outlook for the US economy as well as weakening business and job conditions.

The figures tell a similar story to the University of Michigan's Index, which hit a 28-year low in May.

"There is a fear the economy is in a recession or going into one and people may find their jobs in jeopardy," said David Coard from the Williams Capital Group in New York.

"When you talk to people on the street they seem to be really being squeezed at the pump and the supermarket while their income isn't keeping up."

Turnaround unlikely

The Conference Board also issued pessimistic forecasts for the coming months.

"Consumers' inflation expectations, fuelled by increasing prices at the pump, are now at an all-time high and are likely to rise further in the months ahead," said Lynn Franco, director of the Conference Board Consumer Research Center.

"As for the short-term outlook, the Expectations Index suggests little likelihood of a turnaround in the immediate months ahead."

The index is based on responses from 5,000 US households.

It has plunged since last July, when it stood at 111.9.

Since then, the housing slump and rising prices for food and fuel have taken their toll on the mood among consumers.

The figures are closely watched because consumer spending accounts for two-thirds of all economic

stormshadow

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #969 on: May 27, 2008, 10:21:50 AM »
The dollar has been devalued down to .02 cents in today's purchasing power and Oil prices have to double within a one year period for the average American to take notice of "Inflation"

bigdumbbell

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #970 on: May 27, 2008, 08:57:40 PM »
there's a slow down but not earth shattering

MB_722

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Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #972 on: May 28, 2008, 05:08:06 AM »
the 600 point drop in the market last week should encourage a new round of cooked numbers this week. during bear markets, most of the markets "up action" is nothing more than short's covering their old positions. NO NEW MONEY IS ENTERING THIS MARKET.


guys, be careful.


NT

bigdumbbell

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #973 on: May 28, 2008, 05:11:58 AM »
the 600 point drop in the market last week should encourage a new round of cooked numbers this week. during bear markets, most of the markets "up action" is nothing more than short's covering their old positions. NO NEW MONEY IS ENTERING THIS MARKET.


guys, be careful.


NT
zuckerman bought the GM building last weekend....the less advantaged should be rightfully careful

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #974 on: May 28, 2008, 05:43:16 AM »
the 600 point drop in the market last week should encourage a new round of cooked numbers this week. during bear markets, most of the markets "up action" is nothing more than short's covering their old positions. NO NEW MONEY IS ENTERING THIS MARKET.





as expected, a "cooked" durable goods number was just released. (up 2.5%)   ;)



U.S. April Durable Goods Ex-Transportation Unexpectedly Jump



May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Orders for U.S. durable goods excluding transportation equipment unexpectedly rose in April by the most in nine months, signaling demand from abroad may be helping factories ride out the housing-led economic slowdown.

Excluding demand for airplanes and autos, which tends to be volatile, bookings for goods meant to last several years rose 2.5 percent, the most since July, the Commerce Department said today in Washington



NT