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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: theworm on July 11, 2008, 07:42:24 PM
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thoughts?
i was planning on Test 500 per week x 12 weeks
anavar 25 mg x 50 days
finasteride 1mg daily throughout
arimidex 0.5mg EOD
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heres soemthing from lewlleyn you might like, worm. i thought of you when i originally read this.
Myth #10. DHT-Derived Steroids are Bad for Hair Loss
Even though the examples in this article are given in no specific order, this one probably should have been put on top of the list, as it is one of the most persistent misconceptions in the world of steroids. It seemed that once the term ”DHT derivative” started popping up, people immediately started attaching the words “hair loss” to any steroid identified as such. This is a misconception, and a big one at that. For starters, you need to know that the most problematic steroids in terms of hair loss are the testosterone derivatives, not DHT-derived compounds. This is because testosterone is open to enzyme potentiation in various “androgen responsive” tissues (like the scalp), by its local conversion to a stronger “dihydro” analog (DHT). If a steroid is a DHT-based compound to begin with, it already is in a “dihydro” form and cannot be converted to a stronger steroid in an area of the body like this. Just look at the popular DHT-derived steroids. This list includes drugs like Primobolan, Winstrol and Anavar. These steroids can trigger hair loss, as all steroids can, but they are most certainly not known to be the most problematic in this regard.
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1040/116/
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thanks, but that did not help me in any way.
i think combining a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor with test prevents the DHT, and cuts down a lot on possible hair loss. 5 alpha reducatase inhibitors also diminish acne as well (DHT does act on sebacoues glands!)
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here, this might be MORE helpful
Most of the synthetic agents, including Anavar, Primobolan, Winstrol, Anadrol and trenbolone, are unaffected by Avodart or finasteride due to the fact that they do not interact with the reductase enzyme. Nandrolone-based drugs also tend to become stronger in the face of a reductase inhibitor, as 5-alpha reduction causes them to get weaker, not stronger, like testosterone-based drugs. Avodart will increase the chance for hair loss with these drugs.
Bottom line, if balding were a concern, I'd be looking to nandrolone first, myself, before experimenting with testosterone and reductase inhibitors. Should I find nandrolones to be comfortable in this regard, maybe then I would venture out into the testosterone and Avodart combination. Then again, you can just say, "Screw it!" and shave your head. You'll be done with all your worries. If you already have active hair loss (a genetic predisposition for it) and insist on taking a lot of gear, you'll probably wind up there soon enough, anyway.
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/238/116/
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i am not asking about DHT derived roids... so the answer was not relevant. thats all I am saying.
I was asking what other opinions are on a test/anavar/finasteride cycle... My first post was an opinion, and just wanted to know other opinions. I did not ask about primo or winny, thats all I am saying man.
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i dont hold grudges..
here, this might be MORE helpful
Most of the synthetic agents, including Anavar, Primobolan, Winstrol, Anadrol and trenbolone, are unaffected by Avodart or finasteride due to the fact that they do not interact with the reductase enzyme. Nandrolone-based drugs also tend to become stronger in the face of a reductase inhibitor, as 5-alpha reduction causes them to get weaker, not stronger, like testosterone-based drugs. Avodart will increase the chance for hair loss with these drugs.
Bottom line, if balding were a concern, I'd be looking to nandrolone first, myself, before experimenting with testosterone and reductase inhibitors. Should I find nandrolones to be comfortable in this regard, maybe then I would venture out into the testosterone and Avodart combination. Then again, you can just say, "Screw it!" and shave your head. You'll be done with all your worries. If you already have active hair loss (a genetic predisposition for it) and insist on taking a lot of gear, you'll probably wind up there soon enough, anyway.
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/238/116/
OK, now that WAS helpfull! thanks man.
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here, this might be MORE helpful
Most of the synthetic agents, including Anavar, Primobolan, Winstrol, Anadrol and trenbolone, are unaffected by Avodart or finasteride due to the fact that they do not interact with the reductase enzyme. Nandrolone-based drugs also tend to become stronger in the face of a reductase inhibitor, as 5-alpha reduction causes them to get weaker, not stronger, like testosterone-based drugs. Avodart will increase the chance for hair loss with these drugs.
Bottom line, if balding were a concern, I'd be looking to nandrolone first, myself, before experimenting with testosterone and reductase inhibitors. Should I find nandrolones to be comfortable in this regard, maybe then I would venture out into the testosterone and Avodart combination. Then again, you can just say, "Screw it!" and shave your head. You'll be done with all your worries. If you already have active hair loss (a genetic predisposition for it) and insist on taking a lot of gear, you'll probably wind up there soon enough, anyway.
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/238/116/
I know anavar is unaffected by reducatase inhibitors, but then again, anavar is not associated with hair loss.
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read the second post.. anavar isnt effected by finasteride.
anavar can cause hair loss(read the first post).
so that should tell you about anavar and your hair friendly cycle
and secondly
look at what he says for those worried about hair loss. nandralone only is what he says.
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deca only??
wow, that is blasphemy on this board though.
Everyone says deca only is a bad bad idea. But most eastern europeans do deca only cycles and they look great!
Anyone else think a deca only cycly with aggressive PCT is a good idea? maybe 600mg x 10 weeks?
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i dont think NANDRALONE only is a good cycle for gains or for health.
according to william, its the best choice for preventing hair loss.
and RECOVERY, wouldnt be as much of an isssue if you used nandralone phenylprop, instead of nandralone decaonate
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i dont think NANDRALONE only is a good cycle for gains or for health.
according to william, its the best choice for preventing hair loss.
and RECOVERY, wouldnt be as much of an isssue if you used nandralone phenylprop, instead of nandralone decaonate
you can prob make decent gains. what do you mean by bad for "health?"
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you can prob make decent gains. what do you mean by bad for "health?"
all androgens shut down testosterone production. testosterone plays many physiological roles in the body besides activing androgen receptors...roles that nandralone and other AAS dont play in its place. thats the main reason a test basee, at least enough to make up for the loss of natural production, is so highly recommended.
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i am a little paranoid i may be loosing a little on the vertex of my scalp, however, I still think a cheap and effective cycle would be test/anavar, and add a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor to the mix,,,,rather than doing a deca only cycle. I think deca knocks out your own natural test production very hard and stays knocked out for a while, so any gains on a deca only cycle may fade away fast after finished. thoughts?
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DECA, yes...that can stay in your system for like 6 months. making recovery a bitch. but deca is an ester. the steroid is nandralone. and nandralon does not have to be in a deca ester. you shorten the ester, and it can clear the system very quickly.
other than that, there no reason why a nandralone cycle would yeild gains any less "keepable" than any other kind of steroid would yeild.
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so what would u do? deca only vs my original test/var, finasteride cycle?
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i would run high dose test high dosed nandralone high dose dbol and not owrry about hair loss :P
i dont know ma.
your probably good just running low dose test and anavar without the finasteride. i wouldnt mess with dht like that.
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i cant quote any facts on this,, but im pretty sure finesteride weakens the effect of your cycle
bodybuilders suit a shaved head for a reason....
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i cant quote any facts on this,, but im pretty sure finesteride weakens the effect of your cycle
bodybuilders suit a shaved head for a reason....
DHT is shown to have very little if any effect on muscular hypertrophy. DHT is more responsible for other male traits such as facial hair, genital development, ETC.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm
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screw it, i am going to use the good ole deca and test...
maybe 400 test and 200 deca, or 500 test and 300 deca.... not sure yet, but i think both would be relatively mild?
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yes those are very mild doseages worm
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thanks!
400 test E, and 300 deca should be just fine for a second cycle then....!
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my hairline receded on both sides a little, long before i started using gear. using test only cycles combined w/ finasteride and nizoral shampoo I havent gotten any worse (knock on wood)
hairloss w/ aas is a wierd thing that I dont really understand completely. Look at guys like titus, he had clearly been using for years and hadnt lost any hair, he looked great. Then all of a sudden he started losing it bad
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screw it, i am going to use the good ole deca and test...
maybe 400 test and 200 deca, or 500 test and 300 deca.... not sure yet, but i think both would be relatively mild?
Worm I think that would be great for a second cycle. You might even want to add some dbol to the mix. You should see some great gains.
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thanks 4th. however, i cannot get any dbol from my HRT doc :(
so looks like injectibles only. the damn winny or var costs 8 bucks a tab!
you do not think 500 of test may be too much? trying to minimize chances of hair falling out...
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500 test is very small doseage dude.
i think most hrt have anadrol. you could use that instead of dbol.
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ok final question here:
in terms of minimizing sides (mainly hair loss and acne)...
which cycle would be better?
deca 300 and test 400 x 10 weeks with arimidex OR
or test 500 x 10 weeks (plus some winny or var) with finasteride and arimidex?
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ok final question here:
in terms of minimizing sides (mainly hair loss and acne)...
which cycle would be better?
deca 300 and test 400 x 10 weeks with arimidex OR
or test 500 x 10 weeks (plus some winny or var) with finasteride and arimidex?
Have you done any cycles to date? If you have, what happened? Sounds like you are a bit older if you are getting HRT.
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on first cycle now, deca 300 and test 200, in week 4. doing ok, but need to work on diet,,,just plannin second cycle, and doing my research. want to minimize risk of hair loss and acne...
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on first cycle now, deca 300 and test 200, in week 4. doing ok, but need to work on diet,,,just plannin second cycle, and doing my research. want to minimize risk of hair loss and acne...
Well if stay at low dosages then that is a good way to minimize sides.
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thoughts?
i was planning on Test 500 per week x 12 weeks
anavar 25 mg x 50 days
finasteride 1mg daily throughout
arimidex 0.5mg EOD
How bad is your hair problem right now?
What stage are you in?
That would determine whether I'd agree with this or not.
DIV
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not thinning much, maybe 10% if at all, maybe 5%, at the vertex. maybe. barely noticable.
but i was gonna do test 500 and deca 300....
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not thinning much, maybe 10% if at all, maybe 5%, at the vertex. maybe. barely noticable.
but i was gonna do test 500 and deca 300....
In that case, I give you the go-ahead.
That cycle looks fine.
DIV
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thanks div. i axed the orals cause they were way too expensive!
anyway whats your thougts on test only cycles plus finasteride? lots of people on other boards rec this cycle, but seems like all one would get is water retention, etc.. seems more effective to me to add 300 or so of another compound like deca. i think the two would be synergistic (better gains, and fewer sides) when stacked...
thanks!
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thanks div. i axed the orals cause they were way too expensive!
anyway whats your thougts on test only cycles plus finasteride? lots of people on other boards rec this cycle, but seems like all one would get is water retention, etc.. seems more effective to me to add 300 or so of another compound like deca. i think the two would be synergistic (better gains, and fewer sides) when stacked...
thanks!
If you want to maximize gains from a simple cycle, use at least two components.
Test/Deca with a moderate anabolic oral like Winstrol/T-bol/Anavar.
As long as all AAS are deriatives of different compounds, you will have snynergy.
For this reason, you'd never stack Tren and Deca together.
DIV
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http://pogue972.blogspot.com/2006/03/preventing-androgenic-hair-loss.html
read that shit theworm.
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thanks big tymer,,i know all that.
the questions was which was more hair friendly:
400 test and 300deca...
OR
500 test alone with finasteride? (many say that finasteride may cause more baldness when combined with deca, hence the question)
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i would go with the test+fina, no question... but ONLY for less hair loss side effects; im not saying its better in ANY OTHER REGARD...
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true that.
i agree candi.
many other sites rec just test only, and they really push that shit. I cannot see how it can be any better than 500 test with low dose deca added in!! rediculous. from what i remember, adding deca to test helps to solidify gains. I hope at least.
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well yeah defnitely...more total androgens=more total growth
i think the real debate is 800mg test vs 500mg test +300mg deca ???
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interesting question,,, i feel 500 test and 300 deca is much better than 800 test. i bet the two are synergistic...meaning adding the 2 produces a benefit beyond each individually...
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maybe, i am not so sure
i think maybe it goes like this (purely off the top of the head speculating here)... give each steroid a rating on hw strong of a growth agent it is... like.. 100 mg of test might equal 9 point (higher the btter) deca maybe gets 7 point...dbol maybe gets 8 point...eq mayb get 5 point... tren get 9 point.. anadrol get 8 point.. winny get 3 point.. see what i mean ??? growth rating... now add up total growth rating... like...800 mg of test = 8 X growth rating of 9 points so = 72 growth rating... now.. 500mg test +300 mg deca is 5 x 9 + 3 x 7 = 66 growth rating...
pure speculation, but thats what i speculate
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i think its more complicated than that. Thats why people stack, and not just use a gram of test per week... also i feel above 500mg of test, more of it gets converted to estrogen, and more test just floats around unbound to the receptor. throw in deca, and it may bind the adrogen receptor in a different region or isotype... so, i think 500test and 300 deca is better than 800 of test alone...!
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IMO 500test / 1mg finasteride would be safer on the hair.
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i think its more complicated than that. Thats why people stack, and not just use a gram of test per week... also i feel above 500mg of test, more of it gets converted to estrogen, and more test just floats around unbound to the receptor. throw in deca, and it may bind the adrogen receptor in a different region or isotype... so, i think 500test and 300 deca is better than 800 of test alone...!
this is the part im not so sure about
all androgens are synergistic, ...i am not sure one compound with another is synergistic, any more so than that same mg of same potency.
i mean.. all aandrogens bind to androgen recptor. differences lie in what they tell the AR TO DO.. I THINK THIS IS REFERED TO AS GENE EXPRESSION... (sorry caps).. see, while both dbol and winstrol might bind to the same recpeotr, and while winstrol actually BINDS tighter (or activates more genes or tells it to do more thigns)... the difference, why dbol is stronger... is beecause of the specific thing it tells the ar to do.. certain androgen make you grow more than other androgens bececause of the things they activate..
more mg= more growth.. pretty much straight forward... now out of those total mg.. the more powerful the androgen ( by powerful i mean it makes you grow faster... not binding affinity)..the more you grow.... s
so 1500 mg total androgens is 1500mg androgens
what matters is
what are these androgens telling the ar to do?
i am not so sure their is anything synergestic about combinding different androgens.. i mean, if nandralone does not cue growth as strongly as testosterone does... then you would have more growth from test alone than from test +deca ( total mg being equal )
.... then again... certains androgen might cue ertain TRULY non ar mediated factors than other androgens.. but i have never seen any kind of info on that...so i woudlnt believe that FOR NOW.. but you never know ( by truly non ar mediated i mean, of course, things like gh production, satellite cell reaction, glucose metabolism... ect ect )
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i think test only cycle may be best for the following reasons...
allows you to use propecia, witch will
1. decrease hair loss
2. decrease acne ( yes this has been proven, sebaceous glands also have type 2 alpha reducatase inhibitor)
3. decrease prostate enlargement
seems like maybe not the best gains, but 500-600 x 12 weeks plus finasteride seems like a good bet..
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ok, test plus propecia it is...
but would it be ok to use anadrol 25 mg x weeks as a jumpstart, that would not be affected by finasteride, but would that amount case a lot of hair loss?
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ok, test plus propecia it is...
but would it be ok to use anadrol 25 mg x weeks as a jumpstart, that would not be affected by finasteride, but would that amount case a lot of hair loss?
it could. as scared as you are about hairloss i would definitely leave the drol out.
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If you are that worried/paranoid about the possibility of some hair loss then don't use AAS.
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If you are that worried/paranoid about the possibility of some hair loss then don't use AAS.
Yes sorry Worm but you do come off as a bit paranoid. No matter what the gear concoction you may lose hair if you are predispossed. A normal, healthy person would be better off not using gear if a trouble free life is wanted. Gear taking is a risk.....why do you think all the whackos here like it?? ;D
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i am going to use them, just trying to minimize risk.
there are no medical journals writtin on this kind of stuff, so trying to collect as much info as possible, and here is what i came up with. If i wanted to add 15, and have the lowest risk of loosing hair, getting acne, etc, then it seems best to use 500-600 test x 12 weeks plus propecia.
thanks for all the help guys...
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Worm you must have a beautiful head of hair bro. Could you please post a pic of the doo please? JK brotha man. ;D