Author Topic: Dow Crash Coming To Your 401K (2007 to 2022)  (Read 463834 times)

Hereford

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1575 on: October 07, 2008, 05:08:03 PM »
Wow. This sucks.

I lost more in the market in the last three weeks than I made in salary last year.  :'(

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1576 on: October 07, 2008, 10:25:26 PM »
So has the ban on short selling helped the market yet?

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1577 on: October 08, 2008, 03:23:17 AM »
So has the ban on short selling helped the market yet?


not when World Markets are crashing.  :o

the Fed needs a new gimmick;D


NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1578 on: October 08, 2008, 05:09:26 AM »
GBers.....the Fed just released it's new gimmick.  ;)

NT


Fed, major central banks slash rates

Oct. 8, 2008  The world's major central banks moved in concert Wednesday to slash key interest rates as policy makers struggle to head off global financial turmoil that has threatened to throttle world economic growth.
In coordinated announcements, the Fed said it had cut its key lending rate by a half point to 1.5%.

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1579 on: October 08, 2008, 08:11:14 AM »
Dow is currently down 140. I know it's still early but I think this rate cut made it's little bump and now it's full bore down.  :-\

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1580 on: October 08, 2008, 09:11:23 AM »

 but even if you don't make that fuckup, the car is still rolling downhill with no brakes, and trying to stop it by opening the door and dragging your foot on the ground won't do much.

It worked for Fred Flinstone?  ???
w

24KT

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1581 on: October 08, 2008, 09:13:23 AM »
Yeah, when liquidity in the credit market is restored.  The question is, when?  The insiders will already have their buy orders in before the general public realizes what's going on.

Canada, US, Switzerland, Sweden etc all cut short term interest rates by .5%

Question is will consumer banks follow suit? Normally yes, ...but this time not necessarilty


According to Jim Flaherty, Canada's Conservative finance minister, the IMF predicts Canada's economy will lead all the G7/G8 nations. Supposedly while all the world takes a beating, Canada is immune because we have a strong housing market, a stable banking system, and a federal surplus.

Ontario's premier doesn't exactly agree, as he's called an emergency session in the legislature to hash things out.
w

dantelis

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1582 on: October 08, 2008, 09:27:18 AM »
With many stocks hitting their 52 week lows, wonder if this is a good time to start buying stock or if it is better to wait a bit more to see if the market continues to go lower.  Seems that there  could be some good bargains out there right now.

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1583 on: October 08, 2008, 10:00:19 AM »
GBers, the Dow is now trading @ the Nov. 1998 level.

my next job for getbiggers is spotting the bottom.......and i will.

hang around and watch.  ;)


NT


 

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1584 on: October 08, 2008, 01:28:09 PM »
U.S. stocks thud lower for a sixth consecutive day

Oct. 8, 2008
U.S. stocks tumbled into Wednesday's close, extending losses into a sixth consecutive session after multiple wild swings into positive and negative turf in the wake of global interest rate cuts in response to frozen credit markets. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 191 points to 9,256.11. The S&P 500 $SPX 984.94, -11.29, -1.1%) dropped 11.36 points to 984.87, and the Nasdaq Composite shed 14.55 points to end at 1,740.33.



the Dow has now shed 5,000 points since Nov. 07.  ;)



NT

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1585 on: October 08, 2008, 01:31:43 PM »
With many stocks hitting their 52 week lows, wonder if this is a good time to start buying stock or if it is better to wait a bit more to see if the market continues to go lower.  Seems that there  could be some good bargains out there right now.
Don't depend on Neurotoxin or any other Joe to tell you how to time the market, bro.

Make dollar cost averaging your friend. If you don't know how to research the fundamentals of  companies to determine their valuation, take Warren Buffett's advice and invest in index funds.
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warrior_code

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1586 on: October 08, 2008, 01:33:02 PM »
GBers, the Dow is now trading @ the Nov. 1998 level.

my next job for getbiggers is spotting the bottom.......and i will.

hang around and watch.  ;)


NT



 


9244.72 as of now :'(


I appreciate your advice.  

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1587 on: October 08, 2008, 01:35:21 PM »
October 8, 2008
WASHINGTON — If governments do not forge a coordinated response to the financial crisis, it could spill over to emerging markets, the International Monetary Fund said on Wednesday in warning that the world’s “mature” markets” face their biggest challenge since the Depression.

“The world economy is entering a major downturn in the face of the most dangerous financial shock in mature financial markets since the 1930s,” the I.M.F. said in its Global Financial Stability Report, which represented the fund’s gloomiest forecast in years.




NT

Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1588 on: October 08, 2008, 01:42:05 PM »

Don't depend on Neurotoxin or any other Joe to tell you how to time the market, bro.
 


BB, what makes you believe i'm "any other Joe" ?



NT

Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1589 on: October 08, 2008, 02:02:31 PM »

BB, what makes you believe i'm any other Joe ?



NT
Do you claim greater knowledge about the market's fluctuations than say...Warren Buffett?
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Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1590 on: October 08, 2008, 02:15:28 PM »
Do you claim greater knowledge about the market's fluctuations than say...Warren Buffett?


1) this is NOT a market "fluctuation" we're experiencing.

2) warren buffett does NOT cost average down. (only dumb money does) buffett is a value investor. he buys after markets crash.....not while their crashing. ::)

3) get your facts straight.


NT



 

dantelis

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1591 on: October 08, 2008, 02:26:11 PM »
Don't depend on Neurotoxin or any other Joe to tell you how to time the market, bro.

Make dollar cost averaging your friend. If you don't know how to research the fundamentals of  companies to determine their valuation, take Warren Buffett's advice and invest in index funds.

I am already taking advantage of dollar cost averaging (i.e. investing a set amount on a regular basis, no matter the market conditions).  Just wondering if a more agressive strategy might be worthwhile as the market bottoms out.  It is risky, but getting a stock at a really low price, when they are still a stable and attractive business, is hard to pass up.


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1592 on: October 08, 2008, 03:37:23 PM »
GBers, as long our country's economic fundamentals continue to deteriorate, i will not waver from my long term plan.



NT


10/08 , The relentless slide in home prices has left nearly one in six U.S. homeowners owing more on a mortgage than the home is worth raising the possibility of a rise in defaults — the very misfortune that touched off the credit crisis last year.

The result of homeowners being "underwater" is more pressure on an economy that is already in a downturn. No longer having equity in their homes makes people feel less rich and thus less inclined to shop at the mall.

And having more homeowners underwater is likely to mean more eventual foreclosures, because it is hard for borrowers in financial trouble to refinance or sell their homes and pay off their mortgage if their debt exceeds the home's value. A foreclosed home, in turn, tends to lower the value of other homes in its neighborhood.


Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k..........
« Reply #1593 on: October 08, 2008, 03:54:38 PM »
gbers, the enormity of our current banking problems are NOT being told to the public. i cannot stress this enough.

IMO, it's imperative you understand and stay out of harms way.


NT   


10/08 Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson warned Wednesday that more financial firms would go bankrupt in the United States and that recent market turmoil had "seriously impacted" the economy.

"One thing we must recognize -- even with the new Treasury authorities, some financial institutions will fail," Paulson said at a news conference.



NT

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1594 on: October 08, 2008, 05:23:45 PM »
Do you claim greater knowledge about the market's fluctuations than say...Warren Buffett?

Obama mentions Warren Buffet , you pop a boner and shed your "wisdom"  in this thread. Piss off.  :)

War-Horse

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1595 on: October 08, 2008, 08:30:04 PM »

1) this is NOT a market "fluctuation" we're experiencing.

2) warren buffett does NOT cost average down. (only dumb money does) buffett is a value investor. he buys after markets crash.....not while their crashing. ::)

3) get your facts straight.


NT



lol.  I see NT is still schooling the dumb money.... ;D


 

Bindare_Dundat

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Neurotoxin

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1597 on: October 09, 2008, 04:59:33 AM »
Socialism: A political theory advocating state ownership of industry.
An economic system based on state ownership of capital. All communists are socialists.


GBers, under George W Bush the government has now taken ownership of the mortgage industry, insurance industry and banking industry.

Nuff said.


NT


10/09 WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is considering taking ownership stakes in a number of U.S. banks as one option it might use to deal with a serious credit crisis, an administration official said Thursday.




Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1598 on: October 09, 2008, 05:41:02 AM »
Obama mentions Warren Buffet , you pop a boner and shed your "wisdom"  in this thread. Piss off.  :)
???
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Benny B

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Re: Dow crash coming to your 401k (**Strictly Moderated**)
« Reply #1599 on: October 09, 2008, 05:42:17 AM »
October 9, 2008
Your Money
Switching to Cash May Feel Safe, but Risks Remain
By RON LIEBER

It’s a question we’ve all asked in our darker moments of late: Why not just put all of our investments in cash, 100 percent, just for a little while, until things calm down?

Some people already seem to be acting on that instinct. In the first six days of October (through Monday), investors pulled $19 billion out of mutual funds that invest in United States stocks, matching the outflows for the entire month of September, according to TrimTabs Investment Research.

“What clients are looking for is safety,” said John Bunch, president of retail distribution at TD Ameritrade. “They are seeking solutions that are backed by the federal government. Specifically, F.D.I.C-insured money funds and certificates of deposit. All of it is under the umbrella of, ‘Am I safe and insured?’ ”

By fleeing for the comfort of safe and insured, however, investors with a time horizon beyond a few years may be doing real damage to their long-term finances. If you’re tempted to make a big move to cash right now, you’re doing something called market timing. It’s an implied statement that you’ve figured out the right moment to get out of stocks — and will also know the right time to get back in.

So let’s dispense with the first part straightaway. The right time to move out of stocks was a year or so ago, before various stock indexes the world over fell by one-third or more.

If you missed that opportunity, you’re hardly alone.

But if you sell now, you’ll be locking in your losses. And once you’re in cash, there isn’t much upside. In fact, with interest rates low, you’re likely to lose money in cash, because inflation will probably eat up the after-tax returns you earn from a savings or money-market account.

A guarantee of a small loss may sound good right now. But if you’re not bailing out of stocks once and for all, how will you know when it’s time to get back in? The fact is, any peace of mind you gain by being on the sidelines now will turn into a migraine once you see how much you can harm your portfolio over time by missing just a bit of any rebound.

H. Nejat Seyhun, a professor of finance at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan, put together a study in 2005 for Towneley Capital Management, where he tested the long-term damage that investors could do to their portfolios if they missed out on the small percentage of days when the stock market experienced big gains.

From 1963 to 2004, the index of American stocks he tested gained 10.84 percent annually in a geometric average, which avoided overstating the true performance. For people who missed the 90 biggest-gaining days in that period, however, the annual return fell to just 3.2 percent. Less than 1 percent of the trading days accounted for 96 percent of the market gains.

This fall, Javier Estrada, a professor of finance at IESE Business School in Barcelona, published a similar study in The Journal of Investing that looked at equity markets in 15 nations, including the United States. A portfolio belonging to an investor who missed the 10 best days over several decades across all of those markets would end up, on average, with about half the balance of someone who sat tight throughout.

So moving to cash right now is just fine as long as you know precisely when to get back into stocks (even though you didn’t know when to get out of them).

At some point, stocks will indeed fall enough that investors will remove the money from their mattresses and put it to work, causing prices to rise significantly. But, as Bonnie A. Hughes, a certified financial planner with the Enrichment Group in Miami, put it to me, there won’t be an e-mail message or news release that goes out when this is about to happen. It will be evident only afterward, on the few days when the market surges.

And it gets worse for those who think they won’t have any trouble investing in stocks again later. Medium- or long-term investors who are considering a big move into cash right now are probably making an emotional decision, at least in part. For those who follow through, the same instincts will probably hurt when trying to figure out when to reinvest in stocks.

“The emotional forces that drove them out of the market aren’t likely to let them back in ‘until things are better,’ ” Dan Danford of the Family Investment Center in St. Joseph, Mo., said in an e-mail message. “And for most people, things won’t feel better again until the market has already moved back up.” In fact, he added, plenty of people may not allow themselves to get back in until the market has already risen significantly.

That situation is worth considering if you think your mood, or returns, can’t get any worse. “People feel worse missing out on the bounce-back that will inevitably come than they do hanging in there through the down period,” said Elaine D. Scoggins, a certified financial planner with Merriman Berkman Next in Seattle.

The truly downbeat do not see the bounce as inevitable. This outlook is essentially a bet that our current predicament is so different that the equity markets won’t bounce back at all, even though they survived 1929, the Great Depression, 1987 and a major terrorist attack. I do not believe that the markets are in some kind of permanent decline, and I haven’t found an expert who does.

That said, some retirees, or those close to leaving the work force, may be well-off enough to leave stocks behind for now. If the tumult in the economy and the decline in the markets have altered your risk tolerance, then it may make sense to move to a portfolio of Treasury bills, certificates of deposit and money market funds.

Michael G. Coli, 56, of Crystal Lake, Ill., decided to take his 401(k) money out of the market in February. As an investor in his sons’ pizza restaurants, he noticed that an increasing number of customers were relying on credit cards. And as the owner of a winter home in Naples, Fla., he witnessed the housing market dive. Taken together, he decided to pull his retirement money, which he would need in five years, from the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund and move it all into certificates of deposit.

“I had the feeling the economy was not on real firm ground,” Mr. Coli said. “I decided to get out and put it all in C.D.’s, and that is where I’ve been ever since.”

If you can’t afford to live off the proceeds of cash investments (or dividends from your investment in your kids’ pizza joints), you may have no choice but to hold on to whatever stocks you have left. Then, you can hope for a rebound that will allow you to live out your later years more comfortably. Selling now and moving to cash could mean guaranteeing a lower standard of living for the rest of your life, because you’d be locking in your losses.

But if you’re a bit younger, try to think of your investment portfolio in the same way you consider the value of your home, if you own one. After all, if you’re not moving anytime soon, your home is a long-term investment, too.

“Today’s price is not your price. Your price is 10 or 20 years from now,” said Thomas A. Orecchio, of Greenbaum & Orecchio, a wealth management firm in Old Tappan, N.J. “Unfortunately, stock market investors don’t always see things that way.”
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