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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: NarcissisticDeity on October 07, 2006, 05:17:51 PM
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This boogles my mind seriously , how does Ronnie Coleman a guy with 16 years of competitive bodybuilding experience lose the most important Mr Olympia win of his career? he's poised to beat the record which everyone thought was unbeatable Lee Haney eight straight victories and he drops the fucking-ball I want to know how this takes place
He only had to train for one contest all year , the biggest one of his life , what are the reasons why he lost?
I wont entertain conspricy theroies seriously , here is a quote from Ronnie right before the Olympia
"Well first thing first, Bob is smoking crack and I do not have any injuries. This will be my best showing yet or close to it, I will be much heavier than last year and pretty close to 300lbs. We'll just have to wait and see. My training is great and I'm not behind so rest assured, I will be ready..."
So we can discount any injuries what so ever ( according to Ronnie ) , he said his training as right on-track and he obviously felt he was going to be near his best and then he shows up way off , at what point does Defcon-1 go off? how can a bodybuilder with so much experience fail when he needed to be his finest?
Lee Haney took no chances what so ever for his last and greatest Mr Olympia showing of his career , people say Jay's victory is somewhat medicore because he beat a less than perfect Ronnie , but the same could be applied to Ronnie in 1998 who only really won because Flex was off but they still herald that victory none the less , I think it makes it much worse for Ronnie because Jay was a guy he routinly beat and wasn't supposed to ever beat Ronnie , I think it would be much more comprehendable if Ronnie was defeated at his best by a better man , but to lose the most important Olympia ever due to a mispeak or worse overconfidence will go down in bodybuilding history as the biggest choke this side of the Yankees in 2004 Vs the Red Sox .
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One look at the '97 winner and he knew it was a lock.
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he loses by coming in with an unsymetrical back and noticably smaller Triceps. Also the fact that Jay came on stage in shape and "on" would also add to the probability of Ronnie Losing.
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he loses by coming in with an unsymetrical back and noticably smaller Triceps. Also the fact that Jay came on stage in shape and "on" would also add to the probability of Ronnie Losing.
Oh I know why , physically just not phycologically , does he really think he's not injured? ??? I would love to hear everything that transpired from the day of until the day after from his camp .
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Maybe he said he was at his best and denied his injuries to keep his competition intimidated. Remember the fact that he didn't offer any pre-O photos although he did every previous year. That says something.
But what could have gone wrong? I'd say he's just old. He's been hardcore bodybuilding for a damn long time. I really doubt he's Ronnie Coleman "The Unbelievable" anymore, if you know what I mean.
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The injury was probably minor in terms of pain but major in terms of physical display.
yes that would make sense.
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Yeah, an example of a painful injury is Dorian's bicep, Duvall's bicep/pec, Federov's pec, etc. What a nightmare!
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Not formatted yet, but...
http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/jaycutlerversusronniecoleman2006.html
Dissect that ND. ;D
Glutes aren't judged as a muscle. Maybe as an indicator of conditioning, but so are abs, back, and hamstrings. Jay won at most of these other spots.
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Glutes aren't judged as a muscle. Maybe as an indicator of conditioning, but so are abs, back, and hamstrings. Jay won at most of these other spots.
Aloso, disagree with you on hammies. Jay's were much bigger, look at side comparisons.
Also, vascularity isn't something that is technically judged, but I do think its hard to ignore.
Overall, excellent breakdown.
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eople say Jay's victory is somewhat medicore because he beat a less than perfect Ronnie , but the same could be applied to Ronnie in 1998 who only really won because Flex was off but they still herald that victory none the less ,
flex was off (hell, post synthol was he ever really ON?) but it is debatable even then that Ronnie would have lost had Flex been in shape.
Why?
(http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/1998_12LG.jpg)
width - the judges favorite attribute it seems.
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I guess when you win 8 Mr. Olympias, the Arnold Classic and more overall titles than anyone in the history of bodybuiilding, it is easy to taking winning for granted and become over confident.
this may have played a part in Ronnie's downfall.
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flex was off (hell, post synthol was he ever really ON?) but it is debatable even then that Ronnie would have lost had Flex been in shape.
Why?
width - the judges favorite attribute it seems.
Width isn't the judges favorite attribute Flex beat a much wider , Dillett , Coleman and Nasser as did Shawn Ray , width doesn't mean as much as you think it does
and Ronnie only beat Flex was Flex was off but as they went tit for tat but all things being equal Flex was the man to beat.
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I guess when you win 8 Mr. Olympias, the Arnold Classic and more overall titles than anyone in the history of bodybuiilding, it is easy to taking winning for granted and become over confident.
this may have played a part in Ronnie's downfall.
I keep remembering Ronnie saying he'll be around a lot longer than people will want him to I think he's undoing his legacy with that logic.
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why should he learn humility? show me any champion that was/is humble.
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Width isn't the judges favorite attribute Flex beat a much wider , Dillett , Coleman and Nasser as did Shawn Ray , width doesn't mean as much as you think it does
and Ronnie only beat Flex was Flex was off but as they went tit for tat but all things being equal Flex was the man to beat.
1994 showed that width can literally win a contest for you. That was about all that dorian had over shawn. (other than physical height)
it was dorian's lats that saved him in the judges eyes.
Hell, is what saved Ronnie in 2001,
The judges love wide wide bodybuilders.
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I keep remembering Ronnie saying he'll be around a lot longer than people will want him to I think he's undoing his legacy with that logic.
Anyone who's used to winning probably loses touch with the writing on the wall, never hear it from others or block it out.
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Anyone who's used to winning probably loses touch with the writing on the wall, never hear it from others or block it out.
exactly.
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I keep remembering Ronnie saying he'll be around a lot longer than people will want him to I think he's undoing his legacy with that logic.
recall that Samir did exactly this.
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why should he learn humility? show me any champion that was/is humble.
Gretzky
Lennox Lewis
Larry Bird (debatable)
Bill Russell
NE Patriots (as a team)
Lee Haney
Dorain Yates
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1994 showed that width can literally win a contest for you. That was about all that dorian had over shawn. (other than physical height)
it was dorian's lats that saved him in the judges eyes.
Hell, is what saved Ronnie in 2001,
The judges love wide wide bodybuilders.
You like to simplify things because you're a simple person , Dorian also mind you had a SIXTY-POUND weight advantage over Ray , among other things that defficit was near impossible to overcome alone .
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Didn't the IFBB say they were going to look more closely at symmetry and proportions this year? If Ronnie's answer was to come in at 300 lbs, that was the wrong direction. I don't think Jay has any problem beating Ronnie in the symmetry/V-shape equation.
For the last couple of years, Ronnie's midsection, in some shots, could be compared to Jackie Gleason's. At what point does swollen internal organs become a detriment? Well, I think the IFBB said it would be...
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Was Flex ever as good as Ronnie was in 1998?
93 ASC he was leaps & bounds better ! than just about anyone.
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ND - are you saying that was in your opinion the greatest performance in bodybuilding of all time?
Among the best , Samir 1983 , Sergio 72 , Arnold 74 , there are too many to pick one but Flex ranks WAY WAY up there .
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I'm not sure why Arnold of 74 is in that list. Unless you are talking about personal bests. Sergio in 72 with better conditioning could probably walk on a pro stage today and clean house.
Arnold's inclusion on the list - typical ironage clone dogma.
His 74 physique is foolishly viewed by deluded ironagers as some sort of holy grail of physiques. It certainly was his best, but best of all time?
HELL NO!
Arnold in 74 had the same flaws he always had - lack of quad flair, poor hamstring mass, over powering chest, overpowered delts that sloped, biceps that overpowered his triceps and forearms.
ND for someone who vehemently claims in the truce thread that colemans strengths can be construed as weaknesses, i wonder what your assessment on arnolds chest and biceps are?
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93 ASC he was leaps & bounds better ! than just about anyone.
back in 82' if coach woulda put me in, we woulda won state, guarantee it,
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93 Flex as good as he was - was way too narrow to beat peak Ronnie.
Ronnie would beat flex in every pose except the ab and thigh.
You need lats to beat peak Ronnie.
Look at it this way: they are VERY similar, only one has width (and more size), the other does not.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/coleman/rc230.jpg)(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974028279.jpg)
advantage: Ronnie
ND will never admit that peak Ronnie would win, because he hates Ronnie.
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974028128.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp998.jpg)
it would be too much for even a 93 Flex to overcome.
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93 Flex as good as he was - was way too narrow to beat peak Ronnie.
Ronnie would beat flex in every pose except the ab and thigh.
You need lats to beat peak Ronnie.
Look at it this way: they are VERY similar, only one has width (and more size), the other does not.
advantage: Ronnie
ND will never admit that peak Ronnie would win, because he hates Ronnie.
it would be too much for even a 93 Flex to overcome.
I don't hate Ronnie , I just don't think as highly as him as you nug-huggers do , I never called him the most overrated bodybuilder of all time ;) you get insisting that Flex and Ronnie are similar and they're not , Flex has aesthetics and Ronnie never has , Flex beat Ronnie a lot of times despite not being as wide
You keep thinking the guy with the wider back automatically will win and thats nonsense , Shawn Ray beat many guys with sub-par latspreads , as did Flex .
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Flex has aesthetics and Ronnie never has , Flex beat Ronnie a lot of times despite not being as wide
You keep thinking the guy with the wider back automatically will win and thats nonsense
No one as much in love with Yates as ND should bother trying to discern aesthetics. ;D
Yes, Coleman with a wider back and wider shoulders would win against Wheeler because they were so similar in other ways; nothing to do with any generalizations regarding other BBs and wide backs.
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No one as much in love with Yates as ND should bother trying to discern aesthetics. ;D
Yes, Coleman with a wider back and wider shoulders would win against Wheeler because they were so similar in other ways; nothing to do with any generalizations regarding other BBs and wide backs.
Ah the difference is NO ONE is claiming Yates had aesthetics ;) he didn't need aesthetics to beat guys with them ! Flex had a beautiful physique and Ronnie didn't even at his best , a collection of parts that don't addup to a very please whole .
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Flex beat Ronnie a lot of times despite not being as wide
yeah, back in 1996! ::)
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182578.jpg)
1993 Flex would have a lot more trouble with this than Ronnie's 96 form.
come on ND, Ronnie at his peak was far better than his 1995 and 1996 incarnations.
everyone except you seems to be able to realize this.
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You keep thinking the guy with the wider back automatically will win and thats nonsense , Shawn Ray beat many guys with sub-par latspreads , as did Flex .
yes, and WHY did he beat them? because he had better quality everywhere else.
What you never seem to realize, is that Ronnie had this same quality:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=76821;image)
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/1999britishgrandprix/46.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=0276dea3dd5703b7ca1d3b09c1aa07f8&action=dlattach;topic=69359.0;attach=77821;image)
only WITH WIDTH!
why can't you put two and two together:
quality + narrowness = beat most guys.
quality + width = much more difficult to beat.
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ronnies ooooollllldddddd newwwwws , who cares! ::)
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I don't hate Ronnie , I just don't think as highly as him as you nug-huggers do , I never called him the most overrated bodybuilder of all time ;) you get insisting that Flex and Ronnie are similar and they're not , Flex has aesthetics and Ronnie never has , Flex beat Ronnie a lot of times despite not being as wide
You keep thinking the guy with the wider back automatically will win and thats nonsense , Shawn Ray beat many guys with sub-par latspreads , as did Flex .
I almost never agree with ND, but he speaks the truth here
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Slayer, we shall see how many Mr. Olympia's Jay can win.
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Arnold's inclusion on the list - typical ironage clone dogma.
His 74 physique is foolishly viewed by deluded ironagers as some sort of holy grail of physiques. It certainly was his best, but best of all time?
HELL NO!
Arnold in 74 had the same flaws he always had - lack of quad flair, poor hamstring mass, over powering chest, overpowered delts that sloped, biceps that overpowered his triceps and forearms.
ND for someone who vehemently claims in the truce thread that colemans strengths can be construed as weaknesses, i wonder what your assessment on arnolds chest and biceps are?
Good post and very true. Arnold at the time was great but today he would get smoked at the JR. Nationals.
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How many Coleman threads has ND got going? It's now clear that ND's OBSESSED with Coleman. hahahahahahahaha
He's strayed from the original thread, having been beaten down and dropped off the planet.
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Ah the difference is NO ONE is claiming Yates had aesthetics he didn't need aesthetics to beat guys with them !
OWNED. STFU on aesthetics if they're unimportant.
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double post meltdown, why is this anything to do with Dorian anyway, always back to the same old shit about ronnie and Dorian.
Come on guys give it a rest!!!!
ta ta
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OWNED. STFU on aesthetics if they're unimportant.
I love your bitterness lol
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Exactly; ND should confine his obsessions to recusitating his rep from that lost monster thread.
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Slayer, we shall see how many Mr. Olympia's Jay can win.
It doesn't matter if Jay never wins another Mr Olympia contest ever again all that matters is he stopped Ronnie Coleman dead in his tracks in the most important Mr Olympia contest ever ,no one can ever take that from him and the Coleman nut-huggers are outin full force doing damage control lol
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ND, do you have pics of the 98 arnold ?
flex looked like in 93 but bigger from the pics I saw
I think it was his all time best
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Exactly; ND should confine his obsessions to recusitating his rep from that lost monster thread.
You and Hulkster keep bring up Yates I don't lol I keep bring up the fact Cutler made Mr Oylmpia history iin grand fashion.
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ND, do you have pics of the 98 arnold ?
flex looked like in 93 but bigger from the pics I saw
I think it was his all time best
I did have pics from the 98 ASC he was bigger but he wasn't as sharp all over , his delts were full oil as were his calves ,his delts were smooth as bowling balls , I think 93 was his best and maybewon he won the USA
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I did have pics from the 98 ASC he was bigger but he wasn't as sharp all over , his delts were full oil as were his calves ,his delts were smooth as bowling balls , I think 93 was his best and maybewon he won the USA
true
that being said, I think Flex is the only bodybuilder who synthol looks good on him !
maybe it was due to his incredibly round muscle bellies, he didn't look lumpy
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It doesn't matter if Jay never wins another Mr Olympia contest ever again all that matters is he stopped Ronnie Coleman dead in his tracks in the most important Mr Olympia contest ever ,no one can ever take that from him and the Coleman nut-huggers are outin full force doing damage control lol
I fail to see how this was the most important mr olympia in history.
Simply because haney's record was in jeopardy of bein smashed?
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Quote from: NarcissisticDeity on Today at 10:32:33 AM
It doesn't matter if Jay never wins another Mr Olympia contest ever again all that matters is he stopped Ronnie Coleman dead in his tracks in the most important Mr Olympia contest ever ,no one can ever take that from him and the Coleman nut-huggers are outin full force doing damage control lol
I fail to see how this was the most important mr olympia in history.
Wrong; rampant speculation. Cutler is this generation's Columbu; he or others will fill in until the next greats come through. There was no specifial significance in Cutler being the one.
As far as why Coleman wasn't allowed to win it while Yates in horrible condition was, that's all behind the scenes stuff that would be a lot more interesting to hear about than ND's imaginary scenarios. ;D
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Flex beat Ronnie at the 96 NOC. Both were in top form. Both never looked better before or after
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You and Hulkster keep bring up Yates I don't lol I keep bring up the fact Cutler made Mr Oylmpia history iin grand fashion.
no, beating Ronnie in 2003 would have been grand.
Beating a obviously past his prime middle age (and apparently injured) Mr. O. is not winning in "grand fashion".
Jay should buy a lottery ticket. He was very lucky.
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no, beating Ronnie in 2003 would have been grand.
Beating a obviously past his prime middle age (and apparently injured) Mr. O. is not winning in "grand fashion".
Jay should buy a lottery ticket. He was very lucky.
Jay beat Ronnie Coleman in the most important Mr Olympia competition EVER ! his ninth consectutive title win breaking Lee Haney's insane run and Coleman blew it lol
and NOW Ronnie is obviously past his prime and middle aged and injured but if Ronnie won and people would have pointed that out you would have been fighting it tooth & nail Jay can only compete with the version of Ronnie that shows up and the one that did was a complete joke and paid for it lol