Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on October 12, 2006, 04:59:10 PM
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We survived the Olympia and what stands out is the extremes that many go to in an attempt to win or place well in contests. It doesn't matter if it is the Olympia or the Mountaineer. Guys are using and abusing and many are getting injured for their trouble. Ronnie looks like he is tearing up all over. That really is sad to see. At the other end of the spectrum Goodrum is suffering for the sport. You really have to wonder what motivates so many to do such extreme practices and/or heavy training. I have had the misfortune to have torn a biceps and so I try to warn others not to mess with really heavy weights in dangerous exercises such as deadlifts. Why would a Mr Olympia use anything over 500 pounds in his training? 800 pound deadlifts are lunacy. Sooner or later you will damage something. Ditto for heavy squats. Arthur Jones told us not to demonstrate strength and therefore not to do any set for less than about 5 reps.
I have no idea what the champs are taking to be competitive on stage. The lineup at the Olympia was the best ever and most presented with a combination of outstanding size with definition. Never before have so many incredible backs been on the one stage. The standard they set filters down to the rank and file who might overdo drugs in an attempt to win local contests. When virtual beginners present with gynecomastia it is a sad sight. I have witnessed that in my own gym when a junior had that problem. I asked him who advised him on drugs because I tell anyone even thinking about it to go to a sports doctor who knows something about this. Well, the young fella said he followed the advice of the guy who sold him the steroids! At the time this young fellow was training with a former Mr Australia and I assumed that is where he got his information from. Nope, he got it from a pusher.
The desire to transcend oneself and become a mister someone is strong in many men and bodybuilding can help us achieve that goal. However, it appears the price may be too high. Side effects and now injuries are commonplace in the sport. When the novices and juniors present with these problems what does that say about the sport? I know this has been said many times before on Getbig but I do worry about everyone who has to use extreme measures in the hope they can win a contest someday. I doubt many of us would want to be a professional and have to endure what is required by that level.
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We survived the Olympia and what stands out is the extremes that many go to in an attempt to win or place well in contests. It doesn't matter if it is the Olympia or the Mountaineer. Guys are using and abusing and many are getting injured for their trouble. Ronnie looks like he is tearing up all over. That really is sad to see. At the other end of the spectrum Goodrum is suffering for the sport. You really have to wonder what motivates so many to do such extreme practices and/or heavy training. I have had the misfortune to have torn a biceps and so I try to warn others not to mess with really heavy weights in dangerous exercises such as deadlifts. Why would a Mr Olympia use anything over 500 pounds in his training? 800 pound deadlifts are lunacy. Sooner or later you will damage something. Ditto for heavy squats. Arthur Jones told us not to demonstrate strength and therefore not to do any set for less than about 5 reps.
I have no idea what the champs are taking to be competitive on stage. The lineup at the Olympia was the best ever and most presented with a combination of outstanding size with definition. Never before have so many incredible backs been on the one stage. The standard they set filters down to the rank and file who might overdo drugs in an attempt to win local contests. When virtual beginners present with gynecomastia it is a sad sight. I have witnessed that in my own gym when a junior had that problem. I asked him who advised him on drugs because I tell anyone even thinking about it to go to a sports doctor who knows something about this. Well, the young fella said he followed the advice of the guy who sold him the steroids! At the time this young fellow was training with a former Mr Australia and I assumed that is where he got his information from. Nope, he got it from a pusher.
The desire to transcend oneself and become a mister someone is strong in many men and bodybuilding can help us achieve that goal. However, it appears the price may be too high. Side effects and now injuries are commonplace in the sport. When the novices and juniors present with these problems what does that say about the sport? I know this has been said many times before on Getbig but I do worry about everyone who has to use extreme measures in the hope they can win a contest someday. I doubt many of us would want to be a professional and have to endure what is required by that level.
you are gonna get hammered for this deep one VB...
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one thing i agree with you on: this years olympia lineup was easily the best of all time.....i hate it when douchbags come on here and say that bodybuilding sucks now compared to the 90's.....no one from the 90's would have even been in the top 6.
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Vince, gynecomaestia is common in puberty
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Gynecomastia wasn't present in that young guy because I took photos of him after a junior contest. He develop that condition when he was about 21. The modern trend of awarding titles to really cut guys spoils bodybuilding. If you look at the Mountaineer photos almost all the guys are skinny but cut to shreds. The idea that you develop lines and body beauty seems to have disappeared from the sport. Even the women have gone too far and now they need inserts. The whole sport has become freakish and not beautiful. Many people no longer look healthy at contests.
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one thing i agree with you on: this years olympia lineup was easily the best of all time.....i hate it when douchbags come on here and say that bodybuilding sucks now compared to the 90's.....no one from the 90's would have even been in the top 6.
You guys need to go get a copy of the 95 Olympia. :o
This year's Olympia was between ONLY two guys, Jay and Ronnie.
The 95 Olympia could've gone to ANY of the top four or five competitors. :o
Dorian, Kevin, Shawn, Nasser (when he looked his best), Francois, Flex, Baker, Vince.........Ah yes 8)
Oh, lets not forget Cormier ;)
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Maybe the problem is, there aren't enough drugs in the sport.
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The drugs have ruined the sport. Need I mention the women! We used to have an annual gym contest and guys used steroids for that! We stopped having contests because we didn't want to encourage anyone to use drugs.
I remember interviewing one Asian teenager after he won the gym teen contest. I asked him if he used tablets. He smiled and shook his head, "No tablets!" This kid was way bigger than the others in his class. Later I found out he misunderstood my question. I was asking if he used steroids but he took me literally. He admitted he went to the steroid doctor Tony Miller who gave him decadurabolin via injections. We used to refer to steroids as 'tablets'.
When schoolboys feel they need steroids in order to compete the sport is insane. What the pros do is total insanity. Everyone sort of ignors the reality but I wonder about the longevity and health of those guys.
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The drugs have ruined the sport. Need I mention the women! We used to have an annual gym contest and guys used steroids for that! We stopped having contests because we didn't want to encourage anyone to use drugs.
I remember interviewing one Asian teenager after he won the gym teen contest. I asked him if he used tablets. He smiled and shook his head, "No tablets!" This kid was way bigger than the others in his class. Later I found out he misunderstood my question. I was asking if he used steroids but he took me literally. He admitted he went to the steroid doctor Tony Miller who gave him decadurabolin via injections. We used to refer to steroids as 'tablets'.
When schoolboys feel they need steroids in order to compete the sport is insane. What the pros do is total insanity. Everyone sort of ignors the reality but I wonder about the longevity and health of those guys.
i competed against that guy,in my first teenage show.the ifbb nsw in 96' i think.kevin lerone guest posed.
yeah that dude had some good size.lol...i didn't even know what a steroid was back then. :o
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You guys need to go get a copy of the 95 Olympia. :o
This year's Olympia was between ONLY two guys, Jay and Ronnie.
The 95 Olympia could've gone to ANY of the top four or five competitors. :o
Dorian, Kevin, Shawn, Nasser (when he looked his best), Francois, Flex, Baker, Vince.........Ah yes 8)
Oh, lets not forget Cormier ;)
so very true. in the 95' line up there were a handful of guys who had more detail than Cutler. that line up was awsome. wasnt Levrone also there? and what about Andreas?
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i competed against that guy,in my first teenage show.the ifbb nsw in 96' i think.kevin lerone guest posed.
yeah that dude had some good size.lol...i didn't even know what a steroid was back then. :o
I was at that show...
Funniest part was when kevin was onstage talking about his diet...
problem was he was talking mg of protein and carbs instead of grams. he was so used to talking in mg -ie. gear -he forgot to talk in grams... only a few of us picked it up though
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People are going to do whatever they want to do...youre dealing with emotional mindsets and no matter what your opinion or standards may be...They're no better or more accurate than anyone elses
write that down
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I was at that show...
Funniest part was when kevin was onstage talking about his diet...
problem was he was talking mg of protein and carbs instead of grams. he was so used to talking in mg -ie. gear -he forgot to talk in grams... only a few of us picked it up though
lol...don't remember that.didn't the banner fall down when he was posing?
i didn't know what was going on,was the first show i been to.i remember it was packed.
are you going to the australia next weekend?
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lol...don't remember that.didn't the banner fall down when he was posing?
i didn't know what was going on,was the first show i been to.i remember it was packed.
are you going to the australia next weekend?
I am.. Revesby Workers!
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lol...don't remember that.didn't the banner fall down when he was posing?
i didn't know what was going on,was the first show i been to.i remember it was packed.
are you going to the australia next weekend?
Nah man paintball marathon next week... I saw ronnie compete at the 98 night of champions in new york so I've seen him up close at his best.
paul graham's shows are always 3 hours too long anyway!
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I am.. Revesby Workers!
you should say hi,i'll be there.
my girlfriend is competing in the heavyweight physique.
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Nah man paintball marathon next week... I saw ronnie compete at the 98 night of champions in new york so I've seen him up close at his best.
paul graham's shows are always 3 hours too long anyway!
yeah,not a big fan of the way the ifbb is run,that's why i do nabba they treat us very well there.
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you should say hi,i'll be there.
my girlfriend is competing in the heavyweight physique.
I'll try.. Is your noggin still shaved?
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yes mate
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the '95 olympia...or any olympia in the 90's for that matter, all are inferior to this years, last years, the year before that, even the year before that. the average weight of the top 6 throughout the 90's was about 235... today its more like 255...with some going up almost to 300. all with better condition, too9witht he exception of flex wheeler, and maybe a few others)....also, you have to be much more complete to win now....guys cant come in without a back, and still place. everything has to be hugte and ripped....even your ass.
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Now if we all had Vince G t-shirts to wear we would recognize each other at those shows! Not sure if I am going. Someone said Paul has made the event over two days and is charging heaps for both days. That put some lads off that usually go. You guys will have to meet me at my gym one day and have a workout on the house. A Sat or Sunday afternoon might be best.
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so very true. in the 95' line up there were a handful of guys who had more detail than Cutler. that line up was awsome. wasnt Levrone also there? and what about Andreas?
You know, I don't think Munzer competeted in that year's Olympia.
Ronnie was there and was like 16th place, even Frank Zane said "once he learns how to use the crowd he's going to place alot higher" ;D
Kevin was there, ripped up and looked better than at the 94, and Shawn was probably the most shredded ever, awesome show!
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Now if we all had Vince G t-shirts to wear we would recognize each other at those shows! Not sure if I am going. Someone said Paul has made the event over two days and is charging heaps for both days. That put some lads off that usually go. You guys will have to meet me at my gym one day and have a workout on the house. A Sat or Sunday afternoon might be best.
Yeah it is definately over two days. I am undecided on which day to go :-\ .. I have already worked out your gym (full charge) incognito.
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Bodybuilding is a joke today.
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Now if we all had Vince G t-shirts to wear we would recognize each other at those shows! Not sure if I am going. Someone said Paul has made the event over two days and is charging heaps for both days. That put some lads off that usually go. You guys will have to meet me at my gym one day and have a workout on the house. A Sat or Sunday afternoon might be best.
i remember training at your gym a couple of times when i was about 18 and lived in concord.
yeah he has the show sat&sun $20 for pre-judge and $50 for finals.and you have to pay twice if you go both days.
i'm only going on sat as my girlfriend's division is only that day.
would hate to win your division on saturday then try and hold condition for the overall on sunday afternoon.
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Bodybuilding is a joke today.
Your hatred for men who have the ability to put on muscle is astounding.
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You guys need to go get a copy of the 95 Olympia. :o
This year's Olympia was between ONLY two guys, Jay and Ronnie.
The 95 Olympia could've gone to ANY of the top four or five competitors. :o
Dorian, Kevin, Shawn, Nasser (when he looked his best), Francois, Flex, Baker, Vince.........Ah yes 8)
Oh, lets not forget Cormier ;)
true except dorian was the clear winner. i was there.
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Your hatred for men who have the ability to put on muscle is astounding.
Your love of expanding fat cells knows no bounds.
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I might go on the Sat. Obviously you have to pay $50 to see Ronnie.
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I might go on the Sat. Obviously you have to pay $50 to see Ronnie.
I will go sat too. I will say g'day VB.
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Hey, Adonis, after training for 47 years I have finally come up with a training combination that should suit DOMS upperbody training. I did a bit last night and I feel bigger already. If some nut embraced this training who knows how big he could get. Goodrum isn't smart enough to figure out what to do so he trains on that sliding apparatus at home. I guess just about any knucklehead can get one of those certificates.
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I usually hang out at the back yapping away. Paul and Carole don't seem to like if I take photos. Besides all those novices, etc., get a bit dreary if you know what I mean. If Goodrum was there posing I would be in the front seat!
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i remember training at your gym a couple of times when i was about 18 and lived in concord.
yeah he has the show sat&sun $20 for pre-judge and $50 for finals.and you have to pay twice if you go both days.
i'm only going on sat as my girlfriend's division is only that day.
would hate to win your division on saturday then try and hold condition for the overall on sunday afternoon.
or wait 'till monday at roselands like I did in '95! :)
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or wait 'till monday at roselands like I did in '95! :)
why did you have to wait 2 days?
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or wait 'till monday at roselands like I did in '95! :)
if you are judging i'll give you a tip,the blonde in the over 52kg's ... ;)
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Nah, not judging this year jeff. but i'll keep an eye out. :)
2 day wait 'cos, won the L/weights on the sat, then went for the overall on monday. (Con D. won it)
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Hey, Adonis, after training for 47 years I have finally come up with a training combination that should suit DOMS upperbody training. I did a bit last night and I feel bigger already. If some nut embraced this training who knows how big he could get. Goodrum isn't smart enough to figure out what to do so he trains on that sliding apparatus at home. I guess just about any knucklehead can get one of those certificates.
I am reading the book that you recommended to me by the way....I love it.
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Bodybuilding has become sad. I was at several local shows this year and it's really sad to see the drug effects for folks who aren't even winning any money. :(
I really think they need to go in a different direction before all of their best competitors drop dead.
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VINCE BASILE!!!!!
YOUR DOMS theory coincides with my gravity routine!
I train the whole body every single say and apply equal stress to every single muscle.
Interesting parallel we have there!
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(Con D. won it)
Con Demetriou is a living legend 8)
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Con Demetriou is a living legend 8)
Guy Grundy saved his ass in 95 otherwise he would have turned up at the nationals as flat as a pancake...
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I agree several decisions in his bodybuilding career were questionable.
But thats not what Im talking about ;)
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I agree several decisions in his bodybuilding career were questionable.
But thats not what Im talking about ;)
are we talking female conquests?
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You could say that
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A gay dude I know through business dealings owns a gym with his pictures up all over the place... he had that cross over appeal that con guy...
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fair enough, i like the dude...glad to see his sussex st club is rolling
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fair enough, i like the dude...glad to see his sussex st club is rolling
[/quote
terilli's gym is closing down btw...
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That sucks
The whole Sydney gym scene has changed...Do you know how Andre Burrows newish club is going?
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We survived the Olympia and what stands out is the extremes that many go to in an attempt to win or place well in contests. It doesn't matter if it is the Olympia or the Mountaineer. Guys are using and abusing and many are getting injured for their trouble. Ronnie looks like he is tearing up all over. That really is sad to see. At the other end of the spectrum Goodrum is suffering for the sport. You really have to wonder what motivates so many to do such extreme practices and/or heavy training. I have had the misfortune to have torn a biceps and so I try to warn others not to mess with really heavy weights in dangerous exercises such as deadlifts. Why would a Mr Olympia use anything over 500 pounds in his training? 800 pound deadlifts are lunacy. Sooner or later you will damage something. Ditto for heavy squats. Arthur Jones told us not to demonstrate strength and therefore not to do any set for less than about 5 reps.
I have no idea what the champs are taking to be competitive on stage. The lineup at the Olympia was the best ever and most presented with a combination of outstanding size with definition. Never before have so many incredible backs been on the one stage. The standard they set filters down to the rank and file who might overdo drugs in an attempt to win local contests. When virtual beginners present with gynecomastia it is a sad sight. I have witnessed that in my own gym when a junior had that problem. I asked him who advised him on drugs because I tell anyone even thinking about it to go to a sports doctor who knows something about this. Well, the young fella said he followed the advice of the guy who sold him the steroids! At the time this young fellow was training with a former Mr Australia and I assumed that is where he got his information from. Nope, he got it from a pusher.
The desire to transcend oneself and become a mister someone is strong in many men and bodybuilding can help us achieve that goal. However, it appears the price may be too high. Side effects and now injuries are commonplace in the sport. When the novices and juniors present with these problems what does that say about the sport? I know this has been said many times before on Getbig but I do worry about everyone who has to use extreme measures in the hope they can win a contest someday. I doubt many of us would want to be a professional and have to endure what is required by that level.
This is very interesting - when Garrett Downing used to post here he said some similar things reguarding pushing heavy weight on certain exercises. He suffered a ham tear that basically ended his career, he made a very good come back but his legs were never the same. Adrise El Ward had some of the best biceps peaks ever and he now sports a torn right bicep, Ronnie has done something to his lat, quad, and tricep, and now it looks like Ruhl has torn his inner chest some how, and of cource there's Freeman who accually won a show with 1.5 pec - and that's the short list. It really looks like allot of these guys are tearing their bodies apart these days!! Personally, I think the IFBB made a mistake by giving the Mr.O to Cutler, all that shyt they said about taking it back to pleasing and sysmetrical shapes they just threw out the window this year - they should have given it to Dexter, now that would have been making a real statement to the PDI and fans. BTW, what is the main cause for someone tearing a muscle - does it have to do with lack of a decent warm up, getting enough blood into the muscle to be worked? This is really scares me!!
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That sucks
The whole Sydney gym scene has changed...Do you know how Andre Burrows newish club is going?
don't know...
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BTW, what is the main cause for someone tearing a muscle - does it have to do with lack of a decent warm up, getting enough blood into the muscle to be worked? This is really scares me!!
tendons and ligaments dont develop as fast as muscle.
thats your answer
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I might go on the Sat. Obviously you have to pay $50 to see Ronnie.
How long do you get to hang out with him for $50?
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How long do you get to hang out with him for $50?
long enough to give him another $20 for an 8 x 10
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long enough to give him another $20 for an 8 x 10
ferrignowned.
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tendons and ligaments dont develop as fast as muscle.
thats your answer
So if you are getting jacked up your muscle growth rate can out pace that of the supporting structures - makes sense. What about lack of a decent warm up or fucked up form - I knew a couple guys tore pecs doing incline smith machine presses and they didn't juice. I strained the hell outta my upper chest doing those and never did them again - I feel it greatly restricts your free range of motion.
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The drugs have ruined the sport. Need I mention the women! We used to have an annual gym contest and guys used steroids for that! We stopped having contests because we didn't want to encourage anyone to use drugs.
I remember interviewing one Asian teenager after he won the gym teen contest. I asked him if he used tablets. He smiled and shook his head, "No tablets!" This kid was way bigger than the others in his class. Later I found out he misunderstood my question. I was asking if he used steroids but he took me literally. He admitted he went to the steroid doctor Tony Miller who gave him decadurabolin via injections. We used to refer to steroids as 'tablets'.
When schoolboys feel they need steroids in order to compete the sport is insane. What the pros do is total insanity. Everyone sort of ignors the reality but I wonder about the longevity and health of those guys.
it's bodybuilding. the insanity all goes along with the other neurosis of this"task." obsessive compulsive disorder, insecurity, narcissism. i think arnold said it best, the most insecure guy with the most demons is the one who will do everythingt possible to get their, abnd probably win, as well. (i'm paraphrasing)
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I am not an expert in muscle injuries but I have wondered about hypertrophy and connective tissue adaptations. It doesn't make sense that muscles would grow without the associated connective tissue becoming stronger. I think you have to be on guard about dangerous exercises and dangerous practices. For example, never put your elbows against a pad during biceps or triceps work. That is sure to cause wear and tear on the sheath covering the elbow joint. Be very careful lowering barbells near your face. Lying pullovers and incline triceps extensions can damage the elbows permanently. Forget bench presses, deadlifts and perhaps upright rowing. Absolutely no ballistic movements. No need to do force reps or have someone assist you. Do more max sets. That is the key. When you think about it bodybuilding is always dangerous because you are continually stressing the body to make it adapt. I wonder what the brain thinks about all the chronic stress that is placed on the tissues and joints?
Lifting weights for less than 8 reps is asking for trouble. Do heaps of sets with as much as you can for about 8 to 12 reps and you should be fine. I mean lots of sets with the max you can use. Don't drop back down and use less weight. Drop sets and rest pause is not as good as doing more max sets. That is the key to hypertrophy that Doug Hepburn discovered back in the early 1950s.
I heard Ronnie is doing a seminar on Sat and that costs $50, then another $50 on Sunday to see him pose. What a ripoff. Trust Paul to squeeze the fans for more money. Who wants to see a guy with torn parts?
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I heard Ronnie is doing a seminar on Sat and that costs $50, then another $50 on Sunday to see him pose. What a ripoff. Trust Paul to squeeze the fans for more money. Who wants to see a guy with torn parts?
the olympia did the same thing and we congratulated their entreprenuerial endevour
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Paul Graham is on a great wicket... pays to take the rap for arnold and go to prison for a few years... ;)
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Paul Graham is on a great wicket... pays to take the rap for arnold and go to prison for a few years... ;)
please go on columbo
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please go on columbo
well paul did time in cali for trying to ship stolen cars back to australia... he and arnold were tight at the time and some believe arnold may have been in on it... 1969 is a long time ago though
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I am not an expert in muscle injuries but I have wondered about hypertrophy and connective tissue adaptations. It doesn't make sense that muscles would grow without the associated connective tissue becoming stronger.
Steroids and GH make the tendons less elastic. They can actually improve collagen synthesis but it's the wrong type of collagen. You end up with a stiffer, less elastic tendon.
BTW, training heavy and ballistic is dangerous but you are never going to get to your absolute potential if you never train "heavy". It's pretty easy to spot the heavy lifters. The machine "pumpers" just don't get the same dense look.
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training heavy and ballistic is dangerous but you are never going to get to your absolute potential if you never train "heavy". It's pretty easy to spot the heavy lifters. The machine "pumpers" just don't get the same dense look.
The safest yet still effective means lie somewhere in between. After good warmup, keep the intensity high by using moderate reps while still going heavy, with rest intervals at a minute or less. Don't do any exercises that cause undo structural stress or if you have to, go even higher on reps on problematic exercises like deads-20 rep sets still work the back very well without the same negative stresses IMO. Coleman keeps the reps higher-in his case injuries are mainly age related IMO. Body's broken down, just as happened with Yates; probably inevitable for many at a certain point after age 40 unless a different type of program is tried instead.
Also think about ROMs for each exercise, eliminate potential problem areas like the very bottom portion of the ROM on preacher curls, deads, dips, benches, etc.
Reduce absolute poundages by incorporating intensity techniques like supersets, trisets, shorter rest intervals, rest-pause, etc. that stress the muscle with less resistance.
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The safest yet still effective means lie somewhere in between. After good warmup, keep the intensity high by using moderate reps while still going heavy, with rest intervals at a minute or less. Don't do any exercises that cause undo structural stress or if you have to, go even higher on reps on problematic exercises like deads-20 rep sets still work the back very well without the same negative stresses IMO. Coleman keeps the reps higher-in his case injuries are mainly age related IMO. Body's broken down, just as happened with Yates; probably inevitable for many at a certain point after age 40 unless a different type of program is tried instead.
Also think about ROMs for each exercise, eliminate potential problem areas like the very bottom portion of the ROM on preacher curls, deads, dips, benches, etc.
Reduce absolute poundages by incorporating intensity techniques like supersets, trisets, shorter rest intervals, rest-pause, etc. that stress the muscle with less resistance.
The reason Ronnie built so much mass is also the reason he's gotten injured: incredible tension put on the muscle through ballistic, ultra heavy training. Simply stated: increased tension = muscle growth.